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[LI01] Alt-Heresy IA: Raven Guard - Feedback wanted


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#26
Aurelius Rex

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@Phil - I don't know what exact damage it will do yet - probably kill Bile at least. I think a colourpiece from Corax's POV after he has been 'cured' of his madness by the return of the dream Raven, and he has escaped and uses his natural talents to stealthily kill his way through to Bile and the power field generators that are keeping the air in... as a colour piece it allows the reader to know what really happened... A narrative cheat, perhaps, but hopefully it will work.

Other than that...Corax was one of the marines most opposed to the integration of psykers (according to Lexicanum, anyway).

I was initially thinking that norm-Corax had been opposed to psykers at Nikaea, but couldn't find any reference to the event in the only Nikaea article I could find in IA: Thouasnd Sons.

Other than the lexicanum, which I would not take at face value, do you, Octavulg, or anyone else, know a proper canon reference for this?

I want to have Corax at Nikaea - the place where the Tsons get grabbed away from Tzeentch's clutches and so where Corax starts getting his vulture dreams - but if he is there he may as well do something. Considering what happens later it would be appropriate that he opposed psykers, only for the Clonelord to boost the legion's psychic potential behind his back... It would be a good reason for Corax to confront Bile about what exactly he is doing, and thus force his capture.

Plan for the next few days - review the article and make a series of small changes, then work on firming up the earlier sections. I doubt that I will get anywhere near finishing by the end of the weekend, but if I can make as good progress as I did last weekend, then I will be happy.
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#27
Octavulg

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Other than the lexicanum, which I would not take at face value, do you, Octavulg, or anyone else, know a proper canon reference for this?


Lexicanum cites the Horus Heresy Artbooks for its information.

If you have those, I envy you. ;)

EDIT: Logically, it's in the first book of the series.

Edited by Octavulg, 30 January 2009 - 05:49 AM.

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#28
Aurelius Rex

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Thanks. That's the only one I bothered buying! Time to check it out.

+++ Edit: That must have been where I saw it. Corax removed his legion from fighting alongside the Thousand Sons, presumably because they were too much like sorcerers. OK, Corax could well have spoken out against Magnus at Nikaea. However, reading the Visions heresy artbook reinforced why I didn't buy more. It was very shoddily written, both from an 'Oh jeez! My eyes are bleeding this is so bad!' way, and how they leave gaping inconsistensies in the stuff established by the IA articles. And this was written by Merritt, their IP guru? Shocking! +++

Edited by Aurelius Rex, 31 January 2009 - 12:01 AM.

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#29
Aurelius Rex

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Lots of updates this weekend on the origins, Istvaan, the Fall, Beliefs etc. Not all there, but a good start to build on.
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#30
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To read it is on tomorrow's to do list.

#31
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Okay, I've read the article and whilst it is strange to see your work in such a fragile format, the basic storyline is good. There a few places where the wording could be a little tighter, but I think that stage can come later whilst you focus on the story. A few points though:

Warlords/Sorcerers - I think the current 'puppet' thing is a little weak, it just doesn't feel right. Why would they have puppets to command their troops, it just seems a little excusing a Chaos Lord figure. Maybe it should work like Tomb Kings from Fantasy, with Tomb Kings and Liche Priests. Whilst the Tomb Kings require the Liche Priests to sustain their armies, it is the Tomb Kings who general the armies and are the leaders. They decide what they do, the priests just allow them to do it. Here, you would have Warlords who are the active brains behind the operations, guiding their men in battle and making battle plans but it is the sorcerers who are able to sustain the ranks. That leads onto a second point -

Marine Stability - You never seem to touch upon this in the current writings, how a sorcerer is required to stabilise his fellow Raven Guard. It might not be a Sorcerer of much power, just one who is able to exert his powers externally and not just internally like his brothers.

Clone Lord - Kill him. Have Corax do something noble for once, plus it allows the raise of other Warlords.

Istvaan - I would have the dream and then Dorn call him a coward in a knowing way (like he has be informed of the dreams but the Chaos Gods). If Corax wasn't so infuritated at the comments, he might have clicked that Dorn might be tainted, but instead he rushes off to his death. On a similiar note, for some reason I think Corax should push it a little further then he does, maybe even get injured himself. I'm not sure if this makes him a little self-centred that he runs when he gets hurt, but maybe his men drag him back (or some of his men drag him back whilst the others go berserk towards the enemy lines...)

I think that was about it...

#32
Aurelius Rex

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Hehe, this is a different way of doing things, as I normally don't put an article (or painted miniature) onto the board before it is in a far more finished state! :(

I will review the 'puppet' idea... puppet is probably the wrong word, and having the warlord be in charge of deciding how to execute the Cabal's plans on the battlefield sounds better. The sorcerers are the conduits from Tzeentch, so are the real power behind the throne.

I have been trying to work out the mechanics of the sorcerers sustaining their brethren's transformations but I have had trouble so far making it credibly gel. I do want to keep it and will continue turning it around in my head - at the moment a colourpiece imperial report about an assassin killing the sorcerers and trapping the warband on the planet, and when the Imperium returns to finish them off they have all turned to spawns...

Clonelord dead... Big check there! :D

Istvaan - The exact order is still unclear... Dorn's knowing reference would work well.

maybe his men drag him back (or some of his men drag him back whilst the others go berserk towards the enemy lines...)

The lengths he goes to avoid the prophesy that he will run like a coward! Interesting!

Thanks, Phil. :tu: Now I just need the time to put it all together - there just never seems to be the time during the working week.

+++ Edit 03/02/09: Continued the story of 'The Fall', but I am running a fever so it will be interesting to see what I wrote when I get better. :tu: +++

+++ Edit 05/02/09: Worked on what they were up to during the Great Crusade and started on Nikaea. I am happy with the parallels between the way the legion operated before and after the Fall - sneaking around, subtly striking the enemy to cause devastation far beyond the apparent casualties. Not sure if it is there yet, but it is the plan. +++

+++ Edit 06/02/09: Completed the Great Crusade and made a start on the first part of Istvaan. There is still a lot of bits and pieces before the big tidy up, but let's see what the weekend brings. +++

+++ Edit 10/02/09: Lots of additions, with Istvaan, the Fall and the Fabuis Bile intro colourpiece done. There are a number of things left to do like colourpieces, a shortish post-Heresy section and the introduction paragraph. I have also made a start with proofreading what I have got down... It usually takes four passes to knock all the bugs out once the article is properly drafted so there is a way to go yet, and I still need to make a number of the changes suggested. So I won't be able to finish it before my target of the eleventh - from start to finish in a month - but it is coming along faster than any of the previous IA's .

I want to get it done soon so I will have time to finish my PC&A Librarium vow squad! ;)+++

Edited by Aurelius Rex, 10 February 2009 - 01:53 PM.

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#33
Aurelius Rex

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Lots of bits and bobs completed in the last few days, including the Post-Heresy section and a number of colour pieces and sidebars. Just the introduction paragraph, the first sentence and sidebar about the Raven Guard's daemon-princes to do. Then it is a matter of rewording things that have been raised in feedback such as the 'puppet' thing, and it will be ready to roll with the formatting and further proofreading. Any comments on this more polished version?
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#34
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:)

Seems to be coming together nicely. There isn't that much I would change about it at this moment in time, a few of the non-narrative sections could do with shortening but I will reserve full judgement on their length when a more formatted version is done.

#35
Aurelius Rex

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I would agree that it needs shortening, Phil. IA WE and EC were both just under 5000 words, IA:UM came in at nearly 6000 words and this one has already broken that mark with the intro paragraph and a short sidebar on Shrike / daemon princes yet to come.

Editing will definitely be on the to-do list, so any suggestions of what to cut / is replicated / doesn't work are welcomed. I remember editing down my Wolf Brothers Liber comp story from about 1500 words to 1000, and while it was a good learning process it was painful. This may well need the same treatment.
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#36
Aurelius Rex

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Formatted and ready to go on the board. In a change of plan I will hold off the Ultras one and jump this ahead. I could only cut it down about a hundred words on the editing front.

The formatting thing with the captions is still tricksy, though.

I will put it in the usual places and hopefully will get some good feedback before forwarding to the Librarium.
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#37
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First thing I would think about removing is the Dorn quote, for a couple of reasons. First, whilst it is a nice touch, you don't really need it as you've already short-handed what he said with 'Rogal Dorn’s distain for tactics he deemed dishonourable was legendary, publicly decrying camouflage as being “the colour of cowardice'' and, just by being there, it sheds more light on Dorn. If it is kept, maybe turn it into a right/left side bar instead of a full across one.

The Fall is very busy with non-standard text, two big quotes and two references. The Fate of Corax is a must, but I'm not sure about the first story. Plus, you mention Fabius by name and then go onto say 'shadowy figure known variously as the Clonelord, Progenitor or even the Manflayer', kinda of ruins the full mystery. Maybe it would run slightly better if the two smaller quotes were turned into one.

The Shrike sidebar reads well but looks nasty, going over the banner bars like that.

#38
Aurelius Rex

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Agreed - the Fall is overly busy. In retrospect having bile being specifically named was not necessary, but I did want the section as it hopefully makes it a bit clearer that Bile came in the guise of a friend, and hints at Corax's alienation after Istvaan. I would rather integrate the two direct quotes from Corax into the main text as description instead.

The Shrike sidebar fits without going over the next border on my version - odd! I did have to add some extra empty lines, though. How many more does it need on your version, Phil?

I will look into turning the Dorn quote into something less obtrusive, like a sidebar, as well.
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Index Astartes: Scions of Dorn

#39
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The Shrike sidebar fits without going over the next border on my version - odd! I did have to add some extra empty lines, though. How many more does it need on your version, Phil?

It will be down to screen size. Your 'teaser' paragraph on my screen is only two lines, so you get the idea of size change.

#40
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I had a read and i am quite impressed with what i saw. I like how Corax was portrayed through the whole situation. Despite being the Alt-Verse, i like how bits of the norm-verse came through in this and how Corax himself did not actually "go" to Chaos, but was more of an individual that was trying to manage each tragedy as it occured.


Nice work guys :P



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