zarnak21 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Why eraise them from all records? I can think of only one reason that this would of been done. Betraying the emperor. I think that it would have to have something to do with chaos. Prehaps they discovered the truth about chaos and disagreed with the emperors 'cover up and denial' of its existance. I could emagine them refusing to fight and warning him of the ruin of the human race. Enraged with this he forever banished them from the emperium under pain of death if they return. All information of abou them was eraise. They may of got their information from other human world or aliens. I like the idea that they do not kill all aliens but are purely a force for humanity. Exiled to the to a small part of the galaxy (still hundreds of worlds) and cut off by the emperor. Maybe the region was mined with physionic mines or some other contraption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Hmmm, its a difficult one to argue, many people have taken your stance on betrayal, but we know they were both present (apparently) at the start of HH or just before, and that an even number of legions were on each side, so one would have been loyal to the emperor the other loyal to Horus.... GC08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaji Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Maybe their genes were faulty and eventually they all died, primarchs and all. Then the emperor/lords decided to cover it up cause they didn't want people to know the emperors dna was bad :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor The Great Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 sorry hav to disagree with that view,Horus BETRAYED the emporor,ANGRON BETRAYED the emporor,Fulgrim BETRAYED the emporor,and yet we know of them,their legions because that info wasnt erased,Their cant be a bigger betrayal than Horus's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarnak21 Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 Hmmm, its a difficult one to argue, many people have taken your stance on betrayal, but we know they were both present (apparently) at the start of HH or just before, and that an even number of legions were on each side, so one would have been loyal to the emperor the other loyal to Horus.... GC08 I'm not sure but I think you have to assume this happened quite a bit before the HH during the great crusade sorry hav to disagree with that view,Horus BETRAYED the emporor,ANGRON BETRAYED the emporor,Fulgrim BETRAYED the emporor,and yet we know of them,their legions because that info wasnt erased,Their cant be a bigger betrayal than Horus's Ok good point in some ways. But you have to assume that the HH was imposible to coverup. The emperor was busy up untill the last day of the HH tinkering in the basment. After he was unable to suipervise the clean up as he was basicaly dead. Plus you have 10's of 1000's of chaos space marines running away. Also worth considering is that all the loyalists are so shocked about having to fire on fellow Astrates so you can sort of assume that any other betrayal was not based phisical combat but on idiology. The 2 primarch's may of seen the attacks on alien races or humans who did not bow to the emperor as wrong or like I already said that his stance on denying chaos was leading to problems (HH). Who knows. I like the idea of the lost legions not being xenophobic and using alien weapons and technology. I've got a basic plot for a story sketched down (will have to see if I ever get around to doing it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I'm not sure but I think you have to assume this happened quite a bit before the HH during the great crusade When dealing with GW canon, rule one is dont assume anything! I cant actually name the source, but if you want to scroll throught the massive threads on the 2 missing primarches, then your sure to find all the quotes you need. Apparently (again i cant remember the quote) they were around at the start of HH... GC08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Have a flick through the long-running thread on this subject. Linky :( Damn, GC08 beat me to it. At least I got the link. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarnak21 Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 In the Lightning Tower Dorn wonders to himself if the fate of these two Legions was a warning of what was to come. So they could of warned about deniying chaos and not activly protecting against it. So not rebeled. Well in some texts they are desrcibed as taking part in the crusade cause they had legions and primarchs, and there are texts that say 20 legions took part in the heresy, so they must have still existed at that point. Based on this statment I'd say you were right although this is from a few editions of 40k ago. This simply means that for some reason they saw combat. Probably on the side of the loyalists (based on my previous hypothosis) but I expect they would of seen oposition from loyalist when moving back in to loyalist space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battle Brother Loken Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 could it be like the emperor challenged them like he challenged all the other Primarchs and they either A. neat him so he didnt take 'em in because of his pride or B. he killed them in the challenge thats just my two cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 beat him so he didnt take 'em in because of his pride Would never of happened, the Emperor is the single most powerful mortal being ever to have been created/born, he could have killed Horus in a second but held back because he wanted to save him, even when horus was beating seven shades out of him, he was trying to turn him back, it was when Horus vaporised a custode, that the Emperor destroyed him with a thought. Even the chaos gods fear the Emperor!!! GC08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battle Brother Loken Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 still how do we know Horus is the best of the Primarchs maybe the other two were a bit more like Daddy than the rest or each Primarch seems to have one dominate trait so maybe these other two were the not so good side of the Emperor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 still how do we know Horus is the best of the Primarchs At the time of the 'big scrap' Horus was imbued with the combined power of the chaos gods, and even killed Sanguinus, who himself had slain the lord of bloodthirsters (it took the whole chapter of grey knights to accomplish this many thousands of years later!).... He was the toughest Primarch at this point and it took the Emperor seconds to kill him (once he wanted too of course) GC08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 At the time of the 'big scrap' Horus was imbued with the combined power of the chaos gods, and even killed Sanguinus, who himself had slain the lord of bloodthirsters (it took the whole chapter of grey knights to accomplish this many thousands of years later!).... Where does the Grey Knight part come from? There is no such conflict that I am aware of. Perhaps you are confusing it with the First War for Armageddon, where 100 GK Terminators managed to banish Angron and his 12 Bloodthirster buddies back to the warp at the cost of most of the Terminators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Im pretty sure i read somewhere that the lord bloodthrister has been summoned twice, the first time he was banished at the hands of Sanguinus, the second time it was the GK's.....well worth checking out i think!! GC08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kael Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 My personal thoughts on the subject: 1) They were destroyed by a xenos race while attempting to purge the planet. 2) They fled the galaxy in order to create a new Imperium, one that fit their ideals. 3) When the emperor was trying to build a warp gate in his basement, they were used to test the contraption. When they were across the galaxy, the message that Magnus sends shatters the emperor's force field and destroys the warp gate, essentially cutting the legions off from the Imperium and stranding them in some unkown galaxy or planet. 4) Sigmar, the Warhammer Fantasy emperor, was a primarch and that the warhammer world is actually a planet in the warp. And he was picked up by the emperor. He then set out to destroy chaos because he already new about it, but failed and died or he was corrupted by it. But GW will never release any info on them so no one is right and no one is wrong. Captain Kael :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 2) They fled the galaxy in order to create a new Imperium, one that fit their ideals. I like this idea 3) When the emperor was trying to build a warp gate in his basement, they were used to test the contraption. When they were across the galaxy, the message that Magnus sends shatters the emperor's force field and destroys the warp gate, essentially cutting the legions off from the Imperium and stranding them in some unkown galaxy or planet. Where did this idea come from? GC08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 greatcrusade08 Posted Yesterday, 11:38 PM Im pretty sure i read somewhere that the lord bloodthrister has been summoned twice, the first time he was banished at the hands of Sanguinus, the second time it was the GK's.....well worth checking out i think!! I believe you are thinking of Ann'grath (sp?), the big Bloodthirster dude who gets a datasheet for Apocalyse. The Lord of Bloodthirsters that Sangunius banished was Ka'Banda. There is some debate over whether Ann'grath is the Lord of Bloodthirsters, or if he and Ka'banda are one and the same, but the only mention of what happened to Ann'grath is "the Grey Knights were able to stop his rampage". If the Grey Knights were wiped out as a Chapter, we'd know about it. The Black Crusades would succeed in short order. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I believe you are thinking of Ann'grath (sp?), the big Bloodthirster dude who gets a datasheet for Apocalyse. The Lord of Bloodthirsters that Sangunius banished was Ka'Banda. There is some debate over whether Ann'grath is the Lord of Bloodthirsters, or if he and Ka'banda are one and the same, but the only mention of what happened to Ann'grath is "the Grey Knights were able to stop his rampage".If the Grey Knights were wiped out as a Chapter, we'd know about it. The Black Crusades would succeed in short order. :P Ah the point of confusion ;) , i didnt mean to say the GK's were wiped out, that would be very upsetting indeed... GC08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEFF4i Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I think another viable explanation is mutation. Imagine if the Emperor found a horribly tainted son(or daughter, who knows) of his during the begging of the Crusade, and something went wrong? Imagine trying to account for that to the Imperium? There has to be a reason for the secret, and this one seems viable, since Chaos itself was attempted to keep a secret from the common folk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Skaav Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Have a flick through the long-running thread on this subject. Linky :lol: Damn, GC08 beat me to it. At least I got the link. :D Certainly put in my thoughts on that topic, and like I said there, I don't think GW will ever reveal who they are, it's more likely for us to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I think another viable explanation is mutation. Imagine if the Emperor found a horribly tainted son(or daughter, who knows) of his during the begging of the Crusade, and something went wrong? Imagine trying to account for that to the Imperium? There has to be a reason for the secret, and this one seems viable, since Chaos itself was attempted to keep a secret from the common folk. Well Saguinus was mutated, he grew wings after all, and the Emperor never killed him!!! Lets not forget the Primarches were gentically perfect (alomst), and some were slighty mutated by chaos during thier stint in the warp, but this wasnt seen until the HH, GC08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarnak21 Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 I agree they would not of been killed as mutants if others had not. Powers they may of had - invisibility (it is stated in some background as one of their powers) Plus I cant think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Skaav Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I agree they would not of been killed as mutants if others had not.Powers they may of had - invisibility (it is stated in some background as one of their powers) Plus I cant think. Which Primarch had that ability? Or is this down to one of the Missing ones? Therefore rumour and conjecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I agree they would not of been killed as mutants if others had not.Powers they may of had - invisibility (it is stated in some background as one of their powers) Plus I cant think. Which Primarch had that ability? Or is this down to one of the Missing ones? Therefore rumour and conjecture. This is a reasonable assumption based upon the fact that each primarch garnered a single quality from the Emperor, in an old sourcebook (i cant remeber which), it shows the origins of the Emperor (8000bc turkey) and talks about his qualities.. On the list is invisablility......as none of the known primarches have this ability its assumed one of the unknown ones could have. GC08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 This is a reasonable assumption based upon the fact that each primarch garnered a single quality from the Emperor, in an old sourcebook (i cant remeber which), it shows the origins of the Emperor (8000bc turkey) and talks about his qualities.. The idea that every Primarch embodies one of the Emperor's abilities is current fluff, Horus mentions it in False Gods. The exception is Sanguinius, who has everything. So, if you can find the Emperor's/Sanguinius' abilities, check them against the other Primarchs. What is missing? Also note that since Sanguinius cannot turn invisible, one can assume the Emperor cannot either. (Note this does not rule out some kind of psychic cloak or something - Sangunius never really developed his abilities like that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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