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[LI01] Alt-Heresy IA: White Scars WIP


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#26
Ferrata

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Cheers. I've been working on it a bit more. Hopefully over the weekend I should get most of it done. I have a long train journey and I've told myself no new books until I've finished my degree (I read the four I got for Christmas in the first half of this term) so I can get a lot of paper-work done.

I'm really struggling to do clever hints here and there to the Norm 'verse because the White Scars IA is so awful. There is the three paragraphs on non-Jaghatai origin! Anyway, thanks for the feedback.

#27
The Angelus Sanctus

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For some reason all i can think of is a strong sense of Pack/Tribal mentality to the point that the hunt itself is what 'does their heads in' (and strays away from the whole sex thing). It's all about going on the perfect hunt, to come crashing in and break-neck speeds and viciously tearing the place up in a calm and swift way, the whole hunt an artform versus (what i assume to be) Russ and his 'brainless lackys' just charging in and bopping everything and everyone on the head.
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#28
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Further updates:
Home World, Organisation, Combat Doctrine and Gene-seed have been written. Again, these are very basic rough drafts but they follow the main trains of thought. For some reason, the idea of greed seemed to flow through, greed and excess.

#29
Aurelius Rex

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Just a brief note at the moment to say I really liked a lot of the additions you have made here, Phil. There are some points I will post later about that I was not clear about, but it definitely looks to be taking shape nicely. :P
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#30
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Things that I was wondering about, Phil.

The Legend of the Hunter
Brother-Captain Ramia was a proud warrior of the World Eaters, duelling champion of the nineteenth four years running and semi-finalist of the chapter-wide competitions. He was quick with the blade, precise with the pole arm and deadly with the hammer. This traitor, this White Scar, had been a fool to challenge him, though he had been a competent foe. No-one, loyalist or traitor, could match the martial prowess of the World Eaters.

Ramia sighed at the waste of such ornate armour. The helmet alone was a masterpiece, crafted in the form of a snarling wolf; it was a work of art. What smiths the traitors must have. His foe was crippled, unable to move for the pain racking through his body, though he seemed to be revealing in pleasure. Raising his sword to the traitor’s neck, Ramia whispered a final insult. Taking the head of his enemy in a single stroke, it was his last act as a warrior of the Emperor. Deep within him a voice stirred;

‘Hello vessel, I am the Lord of the Hunt, and you are mine.’

This is a call-back to the eternal Lord of the Hunt, I take it. :) Cunning, cunning! A spin on Lucius the Eternal, mixed in with the new codex Scar named character? Is the idea that the twenty champions of the Imperium that the 'khan' slew were each fresh incarnations, or was that the deed that created the original curse / spell / daemon that has caused the effect? It might be too obvious to have it worded that the Hunter has continued to claim heroes since the Heresy, and that some have disappeared without trace - the ones he 'jumps into' when the old hunter loses. Mmmm, could spoil the flow by over-thinking it!

I did get a sense of deja vu when I first read it, as it made me think of the colourpiece in my Alt World Eater IA where Captain Varren of the WE kills a Space Wolf and gets a nasty surprise when he wins. I love the idea, but would a change of legion from the WE work better to differentiate it?


After his defeat at Terra by the hands of the loyalist Legions, Jaghatai had fled, along with his brothers, to the Eye of Terror. Never setting foot upon Chogoris again, they seemingly abandoned their genetic legacy. The fate of the planet is chronicled in the lore of the Emperor’s Children, for it was by their hands that destroyed the world. Before leaving for Terra, apparently to support Horus, Jaghatai left a detachment of men, drawn from all the Brotherhoods, within their Fortress-Monastery. Ordering them to prepare the planet for war, for unless Jaghatai or the Emperor Himself led the returning force, they must treat them as the enemy.

I really liked this idea when I read it - it has a nice spin. It did make me wonder about what you decided to do with Jaghatai's Fall, though. What had you decided on the 'Becalmed during warp transit, legion goes stir-crazy and turns to Slaanesh to escape' idea? It sounds like Khan is fully corrupted already, or does Slaanesh subtly influence him to do it so that those not susceptable don't get in the way and interfere when Slaanesh makes his offer in the Warp?

I am sure this will all be explained in the Heresy section - which I take will be bigger than the paltry two lines it got in the norm-'verse version. :P


It would be Fulgrim who would lead the assault of Chogoris, cleansing the Imperium of all the remnants of the Traitor Legions. A bloody battle ensured the elite perfection of the Emperor’s Children against the hordes of tribal folk on horseback allied with the infantry of the Palatine infused by the remaining White Scars. There would be only one result to this war, the Loyalists triumphant in the horror of battle. The great tragedy of this conflict would only come to light when the few surviving traitors were interrogated for the locations of their Primarch. It would seem both forces believed themselves fighting traitors to the Imperium, for those Jaghatai had left behind where those he was unable to taint. Chogoris was burnt to the ground as loyalist fought loyalist.

Potentially a minor timing issue here, but not insurmountable. The EC were busy for a while rebuilding their legion, and even after the Heresy had ended were in little position for major battles - they had to do the defence of Skalathrax alongside the WE because they didn't have the numbers.

The obvious answer is that the Imperium / EC dealt with Chogoris decades (or whenever) after the heresy ended and they were up to strength, but then would the (loyal) WS have heard about what was going on in that timeframe? I am probably just overthinking it. I take it that having the EC be the ones to attack the Scar's homeworld is intended as being ironic for the reader. ;)

Bar the inevitable typos and wobbly grammar inherent to an IA at this stage - my RG article was full of them! - that is the big stuff. I am liking this a lot so far, Phil. :)
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#31
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This is a call-back to the eternal Lord of the Hunt, I take it. smile.gif Cunning, cunning! A spin on Lucius the Eternal, mixed in with the new codex Scar named character? Is the idea that the twenty champions of the Imperium that the 'khan' slew were each fresh incarnations, or was that the deed that created the original curse / spell / daemon that has caused the effect? It might be too obvious to have it worded that the Hunter has continued to claim heroes since the Heresy, and that some have disappeared without trace - the ones he 'jumps into' when the old hunter loses. Mmmm, could spoil the flow by over-thinking it!

I'm not really sure what happened during the Siege of Terra and the Khan that slew 20 men. I see it as one man who went around killing the biggest possible targets (part of me wanted to include him either killing Loken or deciding Loken wasn't worthy enough :D) and then got killed, but in his last breath pleaded to Slaanesh to save him, offering him 'all the souls'. He gets possessed, but instead of keeping him alive, he jumps into the body of the killer. Like I said, it isn't overly clear but I see the 'daemon' also having the memory of all the previous Lord of the Hunts just to add a nice twist.

I did get a sense of deja vu when I first read it, as it made me think of the colourpiece in my Alt World Eater IA where Captain Varren of the WE kills a Space Wolf and gets a nasty surprise when he wins. I love the idea, but would a change of legion from the WE work better to differentiate it?

Fair enough, just picked a random Legion, will change it.

I really liked this idea when I read it - it has a nice spin. It did make me wonder about what you decided to do with Jaghatai's Fall, though. What had you decided on the 'Becalmed during warp transit, legion goes stir-crazy and turns to Slaanesh to escape' idea? It sounds like Khan is fully corrupted already, or does Slaanesh subtly influence him to do it so that those not susceptable don't get in the way and interfere when Slaanesh makes his offer in the Warp?

I wanted it to be his fault then just dumb luck, so I've taken greed as a key point for him. I think I will have them stuck in the warp still, but more to allow Slaanesh to show Jaghatai who is boss and turn the Khan into his slave over turning him in the first place.

Potentially a minor timing issue here, but not insurmountable. The EC were busy for a while rebuilding their legion, and even after the Heresy had ended were in little position for major battles - they had to do the defence of Skalathrax alongside the WE because they didn't have the numbers.

The obvious answer is that the Imperium / EC dealt with Chogoris decades (or whenever) after the heresy ended and they were up to strength, but then would the (loyal) WS have heard about what was going on in that timeframe? I am probably just overthinking it. I take it that having the EC be the ones to attack the Scar's homeworld is intended as being ironic for the reader.

Yeah, I wanted to include a nod to the Emperor's Children somewhere, but I don't think this needs to be here. I could quite easily include some battle later on between the two and have this as another Legion.

Bar the inevitable typos and wobbly grammar inherent to an IA wrote by Ferrata, that is the big stuff. I am liking this a lot so far, Phil.

Fixed :D Cheers for the feedback. A lot of the ideas are still a bit fragile and need a bit of loving to get them to hold hands...

#32
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Updated; Home world and Organisation given the treatment. Just attempted to clear a few things up and add more detail.
Belief section added, although in a very raw form.
Altered the story (to an Ultramarine, showing the Lord doesn't only go after the Imperium)

On that note, I'm going to sound very stupid here, but I accidently called the Lord of the Hunt, Lord instead of Master, my memory was bad. So I'm at a lost of who the eternal Lord of the Hunt is. Apparently I can be smart when being very dumb...get me :)

#33
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I'm happy to say everything is in place now, but nearly all the places need cleaning up and someone else reading them to make sure things are clear. I need to add sidebars in, with the current ideas being:

A story-esque piece with the gauntlets talking to Jaghatai (this should show that they are indeed bound with Daemons and thus helping him fall)
Red Highway Massacre
Some Character piece...

#34
Aurelius Rex

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Printed off for a good read through, Phil.
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#35
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With the WB IA 'done', there is no excuse. B)

Known and feared throughout the Imperium for their highly mobile way of war, the Space Marines of the White Scars are the masters of the lightning strike method of attack, able to tear into their foes and vanish before they can respond. Fierce warriors, bearing the ritual scars of bravery, they fight with all the tribal savagery of their home world and bring swift death to all enemies of Slaanesh.

Barring the last line, this intro paragraph could have described the Norm-'verse White Scars. Was this intentional - to jar the reader with the last line? If it was, I'm not sure the introduction is a place for such subtlety. Personally I would rather grab the reader by the throat at this point. ;)

To do this I would suggest that you make it clear that they are a traitor legion early, perhaps '... mobile way of war, the Traitor Marines of the White Scars are the masters...'.

You have also got a good theme going on in the rest of the article of excess and greed, and laying this out at such an early stage would firmly establish it in the mind of the reader.


Aargh! Sorry, that is the end of lunchtime. More later, Phil. :tu:
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#36
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B)

The reason it could describe Norm'verse WS is because that reads like this;

Known and feared throughout the Imperium for their highly mobile way of war, the Space Marines of the White Scars are the masters of the lightning strike method of attack, able to tear into their foes and vanish before they can respond. Fierce warriors, bearing the ritual scars of bravery, they fight with all the tribal savagery of their home world and bring swift death to all enemies of the Imperium.


It is just a placeholder until the article is finished, then the abstract can be fully written to fit the article ;)

#37
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You know, I had a suspicion that it was a direct copy of the WS IA, but had not got it to hand. :P

It is a WIP... check. ;)
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#38
Aurelius Rex

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OK, back to the task at hand. :)

Looking at the origins section, I did feel that what I was most interested in - the reason or trigger for Khan's fall - was not clearly signposted, Phil. As I understand it from the discussions, the big change is that his adopted Chogoris father doesn't die in this timeline, and this has certain knock-on implications that led to him being a lazy slob. :) I will really have to re-read the GW IA to get the subtle distinctions clear in my head, but currently I was not able to easily follow through the steps that led from the trigger event(s) through to the inevitable corruption by Slaanesh.

To be honest, this might well be a factor in all of the Alt-IA's for all I know... I am so close to them that these triggers and their effects might be obscure to most readers. After all, I have the back-story in my head and know exactly what I want to say. :D One narrative trick I have used to really ram the effects of the trigger point home in the Alt-IA's has been the use of the sidebars and especially the colourpieces from the perspective of different characters, such as revealing Kor Phaeron's thwarted motivations / Horus talking The Emperor to be softer in his admonishment of Lorgar in the WB article, Dorn's discussion with the Chaos Gods not to seduce Fulgrim to Slaanesh, or Corax meeting Fabius Bile to rebuild the legion. It gives the opportunity to say something that doesn't fit into the normal style of the IA, and adds a bit of colour too.

As I said, I will re-read the GW WS IA tonight and get back to you tomorrow, but I felt from a superficial read that the trigger point of his father's death (or survival) was not sufficiently signposted, or that it was not obvious why this change would have caused the effects it did.
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#39
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I don't think it is overly a weakness with the other IA's, maybe the most with the EC. It really depends on how 'big' the fall of the Legion is and how obvious it is in the norm'verse IA. I've got plenty of sidebar room to have an obvious "Why we fell" goody.

Looking forward to the rest of the feedback.

#40
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The years were not good on the wild Primarch, as he became less the warlord and more the bureaucrat, separated from the rush of battle and the emptiness of the plains. His only connection to the frontline was the few times he was able to abandon his quarters and feast in the lust of war. Whilst Jaghatai was shown the heroic efforts to inflict as little collateral damage as possible, his men plundered armours, reliquaries and palaces in order to seek the perfect gift for their Lord. Those who brought him the most precious items were heavily favoured, and soon Jaghatai was surrounded by sycophants instead of leaders. As he listened to their tales of valour, honour and bravery, his men scavenged by blade and blood in the most brutal of ways to satisfy his want.

Of the Khan’s pride was the twin pair of gauntlets named Mamonas and Avauras, who had been bestowed to him by the High Priest of Decadentii. The jewel incrusted gages were of little combat use, their protection compromised by the golden weaving and the delicately placed stones, but the Great Khan had decreasing need for weapons of war. It is said that he became bound to them, unwilling for them to leave his side. He stated that ‘only the might of a son of The Emperor was equal to their beauty and magnificence’.

I really like this section, as it nicely shows him slipping into greed and sloth. :o Some of the language could do with a clean up - part of it of course is personal preference, of course, others from proof reading.

Examples: I would suggest something along the lines of 'These years were not kind to the wild Primarch...'
Do you mean 'armories' (does it have a 'u'?) or treasuries rather than 'armours'? I assume you mean sources of wealth rather than suits of armour.
Love the bit about being surrounded by sycophants, and why. ;) Does this have an adverse effect to their operations?
Decadentii? This is a bit obvious, really. ;) I like the return of the 'double i' names, but you could do with being a little more subtle in this case. :P

The Dorn Heresy

Dornian Heresy?

As this detachment secured the fortress-monastery upon Chogoris and prepared the citizens for war against the Imperium, Jaghatai led the majority of the fifth into the warp once more, direct passage to Terra.

Fifth legion? It might help to clarify it for the slow.
The end of the sentence doesn't seem to scan properly - as if the drafting is not yet complete.

The [Legion] defending the port greeted Jaghatai and his men as brothers, and quickly turned their attention to the enemy without.

It is completely up to you who you have as the whipping boys garrisonning the spaceport, Phil. I had not specified in the overview, but had vaguely thought it would be Imperial Army. However, if you want to set up an appropriate rivalry with another legion, then go for it. :D


OK, lunchtime is over again, but more to come. This is good stuff, Phil, and I am really enjoying seeing this from another perspective. :D
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#41
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The Dorn Heresy

Jaghatai had ventured far from the heart of the Imperium when the direst of messages from his favoured brother reached him, the news that a son of The Emperor had turned his back on Him sent the Primarch into a violent rage, not believing history could repeat itself once more. Halting his expedition and recalling all of his forces to his banner, Jaghatai had the fleet prepared to warp jump to his home world, Chogoris. Retreating to his chambers to reclaim his calm, he lost himself in his precious gifts; the intricate armour plates from Khasa, the hand-crafted sword which had cost the lives of three Arslanii forge masters, and finally Mamonas and Avauras. Even when the ships warp engines failed, he would not be distracted from his obsession.

The warp has no day, nor night, just a constant stretch of time. When Jaghatai emerged from his quarters, his crew and men had lost all morale, believing themselves lost in the warp and their commander distraught from his brother’s treachery. Though his eyes looked sore from lack of sleep, they glistened with a deep energy which only emphasised the grin which spread across his face. Unknown to all bar Jaghatai himself, he had found a saviour from the troubles that racked his mind. Walking amongst his blood-brothers, he called them all by name and judging their skill with a sword, their worth as a comrade and their eagerness to follow his lead.

When the fleet finally broke into real space, Jaghatai had organised a patchwork force from all the Brotherhoods, stating that if the White Scars were to fail, then all shall be represented in the rebirth of the Legion. As this detachment secured the fortress-monastery upon Chogoris and prepared the citizens for war against the Imperium, Jaghatai led the majority of the fifth into the warp once more, direct passage to Terra.

As the forces of The Emperor threw themselves at the walls of the Golden Palace, the arrival of the White Scars Legion was meant to be a beacon of hope; reinforcements to aid the war against the traitorous Dorn. Unfortunately, the Dark Lords had played mischief with the communications and as the White Scars emerged from the Warp, only screams filled the voxes of all those attempting to contact them. Heading to the immense Lion’s Gate spaceport, the mighty Thunderhawks of the Khan herald the coming of the Legion, streaking across the horizon. The [Legion] defending the port greeted Jaghatai and his men as brothers, and quickly turned their attention to the enemy without. Unfortunately for them, the foe came from within and before they knew they had been betrayed they had been overrun by the screaming engines of the White Scars. Uncaring for their newly acquired stronghold, they set it alight before disappearing into the Terran cities, pillaging and burning at their whim.

Lost in a rampage against the citizens of the Home of Mankind, the Legion played little more in the Siege of Terra. Due to a lack of men to spare, or Horus’ refusal to accept that one of his closest brothers could betray him, the White Scars were left to their own pleasures. The Arch-Betrayer Dorn attempted to cohort Jaghatai to his side, offering him the treasury of the Golden Palace as payment for his services, but, for all his flaws, Jaghatai had not embraced his new Dark Prince to aid Dorn’s quest for the Imperial Throne. Instead his legion’s actions have become legends of terror, brutality and a time of perpetual doom. Only when the forces of Dorn were broken and the White Scars were isolated did they cease their butchery.

Lots to like in this section - the 'trapped in the warp' is nicely distinct to the norm-'verse Death Guard's fall. Currently it doesn't mention / specify who the traitor is (Guilliman? Dorn?) that the favoured brother is Horus, or what he has been ordered to do about it... and even how it was history repeating itself... Was this the reveal that Dorn as well as Guilliman had betrayed The Emperor?

I think it needs more clarity at the moment. Was the intention that Horus contacted Khan telling him to get back to Terra because Guilliman's corruption was only part of a much larger conspiracy, and he was needed back at Terra immediately?

It is also still not quite clear how Khan corrupted the brothers he took with him to Terra. I take it that the intention is that he chose the corruptable ones and left the pure back on Colchis (love the idea, by the way!) but a mention of exactly how he corrupted them might be helpful. :D

More on the homeworld section itself tomorrow, Phil.

Cheers,
John.
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Index Astartes: Scions of Dorn

#42
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Thanks for the feedback. As usual the 'I know so you should know it even though I didn't tell you' flaw rears its ugly head. All the typos will be changed (and the obvious name). For some reason, I equated the Dorn Heresy to the Horus Heresy, as Dorian would be something like Horus' Heresy...Dorian does sound better though.

Currently it doesn't mention / specify who the traitor is (Guilliman? Dorn?) that the favoured brother is Horus, or what he has been ordered to do about it... and even how it was history repeating itself... Was this the reveal that Dorn as well as Guilliman had betrayed The Emperor?

Dorn is meant to be the traitor here, with the idea of Horus contacts the Khan believing him a true ally when all else are turning against him. History repeating is a reference back to his 'childhood', with the tribes abandoning his father (the legions abandoning his father II)

As for how he convinces them, it is a little 'I go, you go' syndrome and picking the bad apples. The Warp Shields are down enough to allow some chaos play (as “In any case, I know my brother has his eye on another morsel, the White Scars.” would imply Slaanesh went to the Scars and not the other way around), they are demoralised and then see their father all happy and good, and want what ever he's on.

#43
Aurelius Rex

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Ah, I see what you intended now, Phil. :tu:

I got sidetracked posting the early Space Wolf ideas this lunchtime, so little on the homeworld at the moment. I will post more on it properly ASAP, but until then, the homeworld section seems a little long. For instance, the section on the purging of the loyalists in the Chogoris Fortress-monastery could fit nicely in the rather short 'Since the Heresy' section. I really like the idea of the loyalist WS at the Fort-Mon, and the idea that the world was not Exterminatussed (?) but instead its culture and spirit were wiped out and replaced with the polar opposite - a dull, cramped, monotonous industrial hive-world. I have questions and suggestions on both ideas on how to clarify or expand these fascinating ideas, but that will have to be later.

Cheers,
John.
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#44
Aurelius Rex

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After his defeat at Terra by the hands of the loyalist Legions, Jaghatai fled, along with his brothers, to the Eye of Terror. Never setting foot upon Chogoris again, he seemingly abandoned his genetic legacy. Though the White Scars never leant of the fate of their planet, the Imperium knows of its destruction from the lore of the Emperor’s Children, for it was by their hands that the world met its end. A combined force of Fulgrim’s legion and the Death Guard were met by an endless wave of tribal folk on horseback and infantry of the Palatine. The White Scars garrison was measly; Jaghatai had played his hand heavily in the Siege of Terra, leaving barely a caretaker staff to defend his home world.

'Genetic legacy' seems to be the wrong term. I think I know what you mean, but his legion is truly his genetic legacy and he took (most) of them off with him. Perhaps a phrase like 'the world of his childhood' or somesuch describes it better.

Learnt rather than Leant?

Would a 'skeleton' staff sound more appropriate than 'caretaker'?

Did you have any particular reason to choose the Death Guard and the Emperor's Children to purge Chogoris? I noticed you mentioned earlier in the article that Khan was friends with Mortarion, which would add a poignency to the action of having to destroy their former friends. They would also be relatively intact straight after the Heresy. That has a lot of good potential, but the EC selection is less obvious. They would be pretty much wiped out for a long time after the Heresy - needing to rebuild. I take it that it is to have the resonance of having the Norm-'verse Slaanesh cult legion attacking the homeworld of the Alt-'verse Slaanesh cult legion, correct?

It might be down to timing, and if it was part of Abaddon's crusades. If it was later, then many legions could have participated - which was Abaddon's intention, that as many legions as possible participate. If it was earlier, then perhaps just Abaddon's Black Templars and the Death Guard were in a position to do it (possibly with a token EC force?). Horus was also a good friend of Khan, and given how Abaddon raged against how Horus had 'failed', it might be also be a way for him to purge the memory of yet another one of the Warmaster's mistakes?

There would be only one result to this war, the perfection of the Emperor’s Children synergising with the brutal effort of the Death Guard leaving the Imperium triumphant in this horror of a battle. The tragedy of this conflict would only come to light when the few surviving traitors were interrogated for the locations of their Primarch. The defenders believed themselves the final guardians of the Emperor’s dream, the invading force, to them, were the victorious traitors. As the truth was told, many refused to accept that their father could abandon them. Others wept as it struck chords within them, their hearts telling them all they needed to know. Those left by Jaghatai were those he was unable to taint, the noble and the pure. For their virtues, they had led their people into a massacre. A remembrance of Fulgrim’s fleet penned the words for this most harrowing of events; Chogoris, burnt to ashes, bloodied by war. Not an evil man fell that day, as the loyal fought the loyal.

Like the idea a lot. It may however need explaining why they didn't realise in all the years (?) of the heresy and afterwards that they had been on the wrong side. The Japanese soldiers on isolated islands coming out to attack people years after WWII had finished but not realising it is what it puts me in mind of, but they didn't have access to astropaths telling them all the news from across the Imperium. Perhaps Khan intentionally isolated them, killing all the Astropaths, telling them to blockade the system, activate the planetary defences against incoming ships or even not leaving them any ships of their own to allow them to visit the wider Imperium and find out the truth for themselves? With a bit of explanation, this could be an excellent plot hook!

In the centuries to come, the planet would be transformed into the Mundus Planus of today. The cities of marble were replaced by vast factories, pumping smoke and pollutants into the air whilst the Empty Quarter would host vast hives that would have the nomads turning in their graves. Once the home world of an Astartes Legion, Mundus is now a simple cog in the machine that is the Imperium, producing its worth of goods and men.

The default position of the norm-'verse traitor homeworlds was that they were destroyed, but as I mentioned in the post above, I really like investigating the idea than the homeworld of a traitor legion wasn't just wiped out of existence. It seems that instead, everything that made it what it was was obliterated - culture, spirit etc. This is so good that I would be interested in an explanation / expansion / clarification of what the thinking was. Was the entire population culled and fresh colonists brought in? The Imperium would doubtless see the Chogoris civilians that survived the attack on the loyalist liberators as deeply suspect... did they continue the purge to its logical conclusion? If so, then it would have to be mentioned in the origins sections in some way... only the sealed imperial records would know the truth, as no-one would have survived to pass on the tales of Khan's early life. Could the planet's inhabitants and even the wider Imperium not even know that it was once the homeworld of the White Scars? That might be an interesting hook.
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#45
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Did you have any particular reason to choose the Death Guard and the Emperor's Children to purge Chogoris? I noticed you mentioned earlier in the article that Khan was friends with Mortarion, which would add a poignency to the action of having to destroy their former friends. They would also be relatively intact straight after the Heresy. That has a lot of good potential, but the EC selection is less obvious. They would be pretty much wiped out for a long time after the Heresy - needing to rebuild. I take it that it is to have the resonance of having the Norm-'verse Slaanesh cult legion attacking the homeworld of the Alt-'verse Slaanesh cult legion, correct?

The Death Guard were chosen for being friends with the Khan, the two seemingly at odds Legions got along and worked well together. The EC were thrown in to be the Slaanesh vs Slaanesh nod. I do like the idea of the Black Templars being involved with the destruction though, the two favoured allies of the Khan destroying his home world.

Like the idea a lot. It may however need explaining why they didn't realise in all the years (?) of the heresy and afterwards that they had been on the wrong side. The Japanese soldiers on isolated islands coming out to attack people years after WWII had finished but not realising it is what it puts me in mind of, but they didn't have access to astropaths telling them all the news from across the Imperium. Perhaps Khan intentionally isolated them, killing all the Astropaths, telling them to blockade the system, activate the planetary defences against incoming ships or even not leaving them any ships of their own to allow them to visit the wider Imperium and find out the truth for themselves? With a bit of explanation, this could be an excellent plot hook!

Apparently I didn't end up in the final version, but at one point there was a line similar to this' "As the Khan left, the coldness of his parting words still shook them. "Trust no-one."" The idea was that the loyalist White Scars would believe everyone to be a traitor, tainted by Chaos. Without the Emperor or Jaghatai to tell them who was who, they believed everyone to be bad.

No-one knowing the truth is an interesting idea, I had imagined a few random hermits who had been in the plains when the war occured, surviving and passing the lore onto their children. Now-days, no-one believes them, they just the crazy wild-folk who believe that we have gone agianst nature.

#46
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How are things going with the 'Scars, Phil? I have not seen you about much of late - RL / exams? - and there is no hugely pressing time window for this IA, but just making sure you still have mojo for it. There are a lot of really nice ideas and work that have gone into this, after all.

I think that because a lot of the ideas are in place, it really needs an intensive round of proof-reading from yourself and others (me) to knock out the typos and word replications, tighten up the writing and make sure the ideas are as good as they can be. I have found that it seems to take four intensive read-throughs before I am happy. Each time there are less issues and it gets more polished, with the later proofs mostly picking up the problems with the previous changes and their integration with the wider text. Also, by the fourth proofread I am heartily sick of the process and the next time I want to see it is in the posted article itself. :lol:

So I could start the proofing process off, but as there were changes from the last lot of feedback which I don't think you have addressed yet, that might be redundant and overtaken by events. If you want some sections picked over to get you started, though, Phil, then give me a shout and I will post something over the weekend.

Oh, and I will also send you the e-mail with the Word Bearers Word document soon... The last few weeks have been hectic - I just don't know where they have gone to - and I really just want to get back to normal for a while. ;)
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#47
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Yeah, sorry. I've had my last round of module exams last week (still have finals to do), so I was very busy for that. I finished on the Friday only to have my mum tell me my dad had had a heart-attack on the Monday and they hadn't told me because of my exams. He got out of hospital on the Friday and seems to be doing fine, so I'm probably going to head back to Uni tonight, and I'll get started on the rewrite.

#48
Aurelius Rex

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Really sorry to hear about your dad, Phil. My best wishes to him, and for his speedy recovery.

I hope the exams went well, by the way. On the article, I will be interested to see the next version, but of course the studies take precidence.

Hopefully the Space Pups article has reached a critical mass of ideas now. I am going to enter the phase of proper drafting for the sections now, but will really have to motor to get it all done by the end of the month as planned!

Race you? :P
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Index Astartes: Scions of Dorn

#49
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Race you?

Really? You, with a full-time job, a family and other people to keep happy against me, a student with nothing to do bar write a 3000 word essay in a week... hell I could run up to Scotland, discuss each grammar mistake with you and run back before you've got a full IA :woot:....

In short, game on!

#50
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Looking at the origins section, I did feel that what I was most interested in - the reason or trigger for Khan's fall - was not clearly signposted, Phil. As I understand it from the discussions, the big change is that his adopted Chogoris father doesn't die in this timeline, and this has certain knock-on implications that led to him being a lazy slob. tongue.gif I will really have to re-read the GW IA to get the subtle distinctions clear in my head, but currently I was not able to easily follow through the steps that led from the trigger event(s) through to the inevitable corruption by Slaanesh.

I've just realised the problem, I forgot to mention the ambush in which they survived. Jumping over this would be the main reason the change seems so elusive...