Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

[LI01] Alt-Heresy IA: Word Bearers


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
38 replies to this topic

#26
Ferrata

Ferrata

    ++ PUNIO TRUCIDO ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 9,909 posts
I've read the Combat Doctrine section, I will read the Origins later. The only thing that jumped out at me in the section was the term 'superhuman' in reference to feats of strength etc. It doesn't really work with Space Marines, being superhuman as basic. How about 'feats of strength and endurance beyond even that of Space Marines.'

I love the opening quote to the section, and the story does sound good but maybe a little on the long side. I'm not sure how it will look formatted.

#27
Aurelius Rex

Aurelius Rex

    ++ GESTORIS ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 5,726 posts
Thanks, Phil. I would agree with that... Superhuman does sound wrong, and I will have to find a better way to express it. The tower of blood section was also longer than I wanted it to be - as is the article in general, with each IA being slightly longer than the last... It has already been leaned down in the drafting process but I will have to see if it can be trimmed further.

For those that have not read Dark Apostle - the events that are referred to in the tower sidebar, the Norm WB
Spoiler
though I didn't say what they might have been doing there.
Posted Image

Alternate Heresy Index Astartes articles for the World Eaters, Emperor's Children, Raven Guard, Word Bearers,
Ultramarines, White Scars, Space Wolves, Thousand Sons and Blood Angels available as a pdf
Click here for the Legio Imprint download thread
Iron Warriors +++ Iron Hands +++ Alpha Legion +++ Dark Angels

Index Astartes: Scions of Dorn

#28
Ferrata

Ferrata

    ++ PUNIO TRUCIDO ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 9,909 posts
The only bit that worries me about the organisation is that it tells us little about how the Legion is organised. It tells us that there is a single master, that chaplains have a normal role (remember people will always take norm 'verse as standard unless told otherwise) and Librarians play an important role. I would like to see more detail on the Legions organisation, say number of Great Companies, composition of these Companies (even if it is they follow the lead of the captain).

On what it does say, I would make a point that Chaplains do not lead forces because their role as Spiritual Guiders is more important than being Commanders, unlike in the normal way were Commanders are not chaplains because the role of being a commander is too important to be sidetracked by spiritual guiding.

#29
Aurelius Rex

Aurelius Rex

    ++ GESTORIS ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 5,726 posts
I think those are again fair comments, Phil. You always seem to call me on the things I was always unhappy about with a piece. ^_^ To be honest I was really struggling to find anything stunning to write about the organisation, but more on why the chaplains don't command would be useful... Perhaps Vandire tried to overturn this when he felt his rule threatened - to get someone more malleable running the show than the evasive captains that were thwarting his will, but that this didn't work and was overturned anyway by Thor.

I had not considered mentioning the number of Grand Companies. Though I believe it was mentioned in the World Eater IA, a great company is closer to the thousand (chapter strong) size than the companies in chapters. Will need to subtley mention that too. Exactly how that is broken down - be it Great Company Captain = Chapter Master and therefore lieutenant = chapter Captain is not clear here, but I think it should be more so. I suppose each great company has a staff of librarians and chaplains. now... How to word it...


Despite completing the Homeworld section, there is still the intro paragraph, chaplain sidebar, beliefs and chaplain colourpiece to do even before proofing and coding gets touched. So while I won't get it done by the end of the weekend, it is still grinding on to completion.
Posted Image

Alternate Heresy Index Astartes articles for the World Eaters, Emperor's Children, Raven Guard, Word Bearers,
Ultramarines, White Scars, Space Wolves, Thousand Sons and Blood Angels available as a pdf
Click here for the Legio Imprint download thread
Iron Warriors +++ Iron Hands +++ Alpha Legion +++ Dark Angels

Index Astartes: Scions of Dorn

#30
Ferrata

Ferrata

    ++ PUNIO TRUCIDO ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 9,909 posts

I think those are again fair comments, Phil. You always seem to call me on the things I was always unhappy about with a piece

:) Must be a product of the Liber upbringing, that or I'm secretly monitoring your thoughts :)

I had a similar problem with the White Scars IA, it became more about characters than rank and file troopers. I attempted to bring it back with saying that captains are given free reign over their companies. It can read much like Combat Doctrine but more about the men than the weapon.

I do like the idea that Chaplains aren't Commanders because it is too important to be a Chaplain to distract yourself with leading men. I like the idea of religous snobbery...

#31
Aurelius Rex

Aurelius Rex

    ++ GESTORIS ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 5,726 posts
It does sometimes feel that the boundaries between the sections can become rather blurred, such as with Combat Doctrine / Organisation. :mellow:

That is the last section drafted, although I suspect that it will take several days to proof, finesse and code it to completeness. This process will include making the changes to the organisation section and every other bit that still feels forced... which hopefully will be few. I also want to see if I can edit it down by several hundred words at least as it tops out at just over a 7K word count at the moment. A lot of the extra can be attributed to the additional history of the Age of Apostasy - most legions / chapters just have the major history event in their origins, but this got a second storyline . Iit would be good to trim some excess.
Posted Image

Alternate Heresy Index Astartes articles for the World Eaters, Emperor's Children, Raven Guard, Word Bearers,
Ultramarines, White Scars, Space Wolves, Thousand Sons and Blood Angels available as a pdf
Click here for the Legio Imprint download thread
Iron Warriors +++ Iron Hands +++ Alpha Legion +++ Dark Angels

Index Astartes: Scions of Dorn

#32
Ferrata

Ferrata

    ++ PUNIO TRUCIDO ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 9,909 posts
I'm not sure if it is my computer slaughtering the length of each section, but the belief section seems too short for the Word Bearers, who you would expect to be based around their faith. Currently, on my screen at least, it doesn't reach passed the drop caps. I know this will alter on a normal screen, but I think this section could do with some expanding. Counter to this, the Origins section does seem long. I understand that the Word Bearers have a lot going on (the usual Primarch upbringing/finding, Great Crusade and Post-Heresy) but in addition to this you have long sections on their actions during the Horus Heresy and the Age of Apostasy. I don't think any of these can be cut, each is important to the Legion, so to allow for a shorter article and maybe an expanded Beliefs section, all five need to be trimmed.

++

Just read all of the Origins, it is basically is awesome. The only problem I have with it is the word cronies...and maybe the length. There is no large chunks which need to go, but maybe a few details could be left out if you really want to trim the article down.

#33
Aurelius Rex

Aurelius Rex

    ++ GESTORIS ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 5,726 posts
The beliefs section is indeed maddeningly short, but I couldn't think of anything much to write. Either it had already been covered throughout the article, or they were so straightforward that it didn't take more than a few sentences. Other than their fatalism / determinism streak, which would be just re-stating what had already been said, I still can't thing of anything much to add to it. ;)

I have gone through the proofing process for the whole article several times now, and it seems that I have tightened up the language and edited out about a grand total of 70 words. This is on the Word copy, and has not been transferred yet... it needs one more pass and then a final check that all the points raised here have been covered, and I will transfer it over tomorrow. Based on the 70 word edit, I couldn't think of anything that I thought it would be better without... or to put it another way, that I could bear to cut. :blush: If it comes to that, then I will have to just bite the bullet and leave it on the long side.

What was the problem with the 'cronies' word, Phil? Was it a contextual one, or a dislike of the word itself? Could you suggest an improvement?
Posted Image

Alternate Heresy Index Astartes articles for the World Eaters, Emperor's Children, Raven Guard, Word Bearers,
Ultramarines, White Scars, Space Wolves, Thousand Sons and Blood Angels available as a pdf
Click here for the Legio Imprint download thread
Iron Warriors +++ Iron Hands +++ Alpha Legion +++ Dark Angels

Index Astartes: Scions of Dorn

#34
Ferrata

Ferrata

    ++ PUNIO TRUCIDO ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 9,909 posts
On the length, post it and see what readers think. You could even say that you felt a little unsure on the length.

As for cronies, it seems a little informal, almost childish term for a bad guys mates, so contextual. It just broke the read up for me, maybe 'pawns' would be better, or (not saving the word) 'those he had risen to power (much further than their ability would allow)' :P

#35
Sigismund Himself

Sigismund Himself

    ++SCRIBERE NOVELLUS++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 6,415 posts

Because of this, it is not uncommon to see these pitifully misshapen, hunched figures in the shadows of cathedrals... ringing the bells to call the faithful to worship.

Love it ;)

Horus knew The Emperor was uneasy that some of His subjects had taken to deifying him as a living god, preferring a form of empirical rationalism to such errant superstition, but where was the harm?

"where was the harm?" sounded a bit out of place with the whole language used in the rest of the caption.

Though routine to carve the words of Lorgar into the ceramite of their power armour, some initiates choose to sear large passages of the holy texts into their flesh so that they will never be without the words of their Primarch. This practice is often taken to extremes by chaplains, with a rare few covering their whole bodies, heads and even their tongues with the sacred script. This is done with a red hot stylus and the sap of the Black Jula bush, a plant native to Colchis. Because of the super-human regenerative capabilities of the Astartes constitution, even this potent scarring will fade over time, and just as faith must constantly be renewed, so too must the devotional script branded into their skin.Though routine to carve the words of Lorgar into the ceramite of their power armour, some initiates choose to sear large passages of the holy texts into their flesh so that they will never be without the words of their Primarch. This is done with a red hot stylus and the sap of the Black Jula bush, a plant native to Colchis. Because of the super-human regenerative capabilities of the Astartes constitution, even this potent scarring will fade over time, and just as faith must constantly be renewed, so too must the devotional script branded into their skin.

I would suggest moving this to Beliefs.

Organisation: Not sure on the use of 'distain'. I found it meaned "to stain; to discolor; to sully; to tarnish; to defile". Disdain?

Expansion for Organisation: Maybe discussing a little about exactly how independent the Captains are, in light of their actions in the AoA. A bit more explanation about the Frateris Militaris would be welcome too.

Tower of Blood sidebar doesn't seem to particularly add much, apart from referencing the real 'verse happenings.

Maybe it's just me but I don't see a problem with the length. In fact, I think that some of the latter sections needs expansion :P

#36
Aurelius Rex

Aurelius Rex

    ++ GESTORIS ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 5,726 posts
Thanks for the feedback, guys. I have updated the endless proofing changes - too many to colour code, sadly - and there are still changes to come based on what you raised above.

@Phil - I wouldn't have said 'cronies' sounded childish. Perhaps it has a different connotation but to me it seems the ideal word for a bad guy's friends. It is even used by Radio 4 or Newsnight when a polititian is accused of appointing his friends to favourable posts. I considered 'minions' or a number of other wordings but I drew a blank... I think in this case it fits what is in my head the best. ;)

@Matt - great to hear that you are still interested in the Alpha Legion gig. ;)

Hopefully the Victor Hugo reference was subtle - no gypsy maids in need of rescue from apostate cardinals, at least.

I am reconsidering the 'where is the harm' line... either something else or out completely.

Moved the ritual scarring to bulk out the beliefs section. Good call. Similarly on the 'disdain'... darn typos. :P

I am looking to add a paragraph to the origins on the great companies and possibly the Fateris Militaris, but really don't want to make it much longer unless there is a really good reason. I am worried that the Tower of Blood is an idea that was better in my head than on the page... I still like it but it doesn't cosily fit anywhere... and that too few people will 'get' the reference.

The only thing I would want to add new right now would be another short colourpiece from the perspective of Kor Phaeron - dying and raging that his attempt to corrupt Lorgar will not come to pass. I think it might be a nice narrative, and I am worried that people may not 'get' that him dying is one of the two pivotal events that diverted the Word Bearers into being 'goodies' in this 'verse. Loathe as I am to write more - I am more than ready to move onto another legion about now - but I think it would really improve the piece overall.

EDIT: Here is the colourpiece I had in mind, although I will have to be careful not to place it too close to the Horus colourpiece. I have put it at the end, just after the geneseed section which also mentions Phaeron's death by geneseed failure.

Colourpiece – Kor Phaeron’s Demise
Despite all their interventions, his body was tearing itself apart. He called out to the Pantheon of Chaos to save him; his great work was not yet complete. Lorgar had been blooded, pushed to take the lives of innocents. He had been primed for blind, credulous belief. Having passed inspection by the hated Emperor, and in possession of a whole legion of Astartes, he was ripe for disillusionment and enlightenment to the true powers of the divine. All the intricate plans, all those years of work... All ruined by the incompetence of an apothecarion implantation servitor.

Through the agony, and eyes clouded with rheum he dimly made out a presence; Lorgar. He tried to speak, to convince him of the majesty of the Chaos Gods, but his throat had swollen closed against the breathing tube. He tried to reach out to the tray of chirurgical equipment to slash open the fool’s throat, but he had been firmly restrained to prevent his violent muscle spasms. As the Larraman’s cells began to curdle the blood in his veins, he heard the final, unknowing insult.

“I am sorry, my brother, but fear not. No one will ever be allowed to forget your loyalty and service to the creed. You will forever be remembered as Master of the Imperial Faith.”

Trapped inside his meat prison, begging for release, Kor Phaeron howled.

Edited by Aurelius Rex, 17 April 2009 - 10:40 PM.

Posted Image

Alternate Heresy Index Astartes articles for the World Eaters, Emperor's Children, Raven Guard, Word Bearers,
Ultramarines, White Scars, Space Wolves, Thousand Sons and Blood Angels available as a pdf
Click here for the Legio Imprint download thread
Iron Warriors +++ Iron Hands +++ Alpha Legion +++ Dark Angels

Index Astartes: Scions of Dorn

#37
Aurelius Rex

Aurelius Rex

    ++ GESTORIS ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 5,726 posts
I think that is all the changes to the feedback and the coding complete. Added a bit about them wearing coloured tabards or votive cloths from their shoulder pauldrons rather than having to constantly repaint their armour with tactical, assault or devastator symbols... included a word on the Frateris Militaris (matt black carapace armour, hellguns and flamers... think Inquisitorial storm troopers... They are also distributed through the galaxy keeping an eye on the Ministorum, so they are spread thin, withonly 500 marines in a great company to cover more ground. Also made some other minor changes like adapting the first line of the chaplain sidebar to stop it being an unconscious copy of one from the norm-'verse IA:WB Kor Phaeron sidebar.

Obviously I am still open to feedback, but otherwise I will step back from it and move back to the Ultramarines article... coding and making changes based on the great feedback I got from Phil and the two Matt's. :D I will also contact Chris (SCC) to see if this is still a possibility for the Legio imprint. If is isn't imminent, it may be prudent to put out the UM one soonest to keep up interest on the board.

Also I will now have a proper chance to give feedback on the Scars and Alphas - long overdue! - before starting musings on the next new article. Plan is to work on the linked triplet of the Space Wolves, Thousand Sons and Dark Angels. They have many links and common battles during the Heresy, after all.


I have also prepped the IA in a nicely formatted word document. Anyone interested, just shout out.

Edit - Aw, stuff it... The last posted IA was of a traitor, so the next should be a loyalist. It was exactly two months since the Raven Guard was posted, so I have taken a leap and posted it on the board.

Edited by Aurelius Rex, 19 April 2009 - 10:14 PM.

Posted Image

Alternate Heresy Index Astartes articles for the World Eaters, Emperor's Children, Raven Guard, Word Bearers,
Ultramarines, White Scars, Space Wolves, Thousand Sons and Blood Angels available as a pdf
Click here for the Legio Imprint download thread
Iron Warriors +++ Iron Hands +++ Alpha Legion +++ Dark Angels

Index Astartes: Scions of Dorn

#38
Ferrata

Ferrata

    ++ PUNIO TRUCIDO ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 9,909 posts
I think the final article is a damn good, the word cronies will always get to me but then, one word in 7000 isn't bad :P

I'll grab copies of all the final word articles if you don't mind, it will help me convert it into a White Scars one.

#39
Aurelius Rex

Aurelius Rex

    ++ GESTORIS ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 5,726 posts
That reminds me, Phil... I will have to go back and make sure the Librarium changes have been made on the final Word articles. Once that is done I will send them through to you. The Ultramarines article you gave me that feedback on should have the style, though, if you want to tart up the White Scars IA. B)

Speaking of which, having had yesterday off - well, reading all the Space Wolf info I could in preparation for the next Alt-IA - I will crack on with some comments on your Scars article, Phil. See you in the next thread.
Posted Image

Alternate Heresy Index Astartes articles for the World Eaters, Emperor's Children, Raven Guard, Word Bearers,
Ultramarines, White Scars, Space Wolves, Thousand Sons and Blood Angels available as a pdf
Click here for the Legio Imprint download thread
Iron Warriors +++ Iron Hands +++ Alpha Legion +++ Dark Angels

Index Astartes: Scions of Dorn