16 replies to this topic

[Lord Kallozar]

Hey all, this is my very first post so I thought I would start by posting my Black Legion list.

It's currently 1815 points but i will be aiming to reach 2000 at some stage, although i'm not entirely sure what else to include. The main focus of my force is close combat (being a former Blood Angels player I just cant get enough of getting up close and personal) and I have purposefully chosen not to include any heavy weaponry on my marines and opted for assault weaponry instead to give more of a close quarter fighting feel.
Anyway, heres the list:

HQ
Chaos Lord Kallozar - The Shackled One
- Terminator Armour
- Daemon Weapon
- Combi-Melta
- Personal Icon
155 points

ELITES
Chaos Terminators x5
- Terminator Champion with Powerfist and Combi-Melta
- Reaper Autocannon
- Combi-Flamer
- Chainfist
220 points

Chosen Chaos Space Marines x5
- Aspiring Champion with Plasma Pistol and Powerfist
- Icon of Khorne
- Power Weapons
215 points

Possessed Chaos Space Marines x5
- Possessed Champion
140 points

TROOPS
Chaos Space Marines x10
- Aspiring Champion with Plasma Pistol and Power Weapon
- Icon of Chaos Glory
- Meltagun
- Plasma Gun
230 points

Chaos Space Marines x10
- Aspiring Champion with Plasma Pistol and Power Weapon
- Flamer
- Plasma Gun
215 points

Khorne Berzerkers x10
- Skull Champion with Plasma Pistol and Power Weapon
255 points

Chaos Rhino
- Havoc Launcher
50 points

Chaos Rhino
- Havoc Launcher
50 points

SUMMONED DAEMONS
Lesser Daemons x10
130 points

HEAVY SUPPORT
Chaos Defiler
- Havoc Launcher
155 points

So there you have it, my current list
Just in case you were wandering the Rhino's will be given to the Berzerkers and the Chosen. All comments and crit welcome.

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

Chaos Lord Kallozar - The Shackled One
- Terminator Armour
- Daemon Weapon
- Combi-Melta
- Personal Icon
155 points

Don't take a termie lord, take a winglord or wingprince. DW is very optional, IMO they just perform OK. Combi-melta's good. Drop the icon.

Chaos Terminators x5
- Terminator Champion with Powerfist and Combi-Melta
- Reaper Autocannon
- Combi-Flamer
- Chainfist
220 points

Chosen Chaos Space Marines x5
- Aspiring Champion with Plasma Pistol and Powerfist
- Icon of Khorne
- Power Weapons
215 points

Possessed Chaos Space Marines x5
- Possessed Champion
140 points

Terms suck as built. If they DS, they eat counter and die. If walking, they're too slow and also dead. They're a unit without a focussed mission that is also way overcosted. Reaper sucks. Drop them down to a termicide or buy them a Raider (but that means that you need another raider, and some Zerks, and at that point, you'd rather have 2x Zerk, etc.).
Chosen are overcosted, infiltrating they get countered. With infiltrate, they'll never get off a first turn charge. Don't take PPs.
Possessed = . Slogging possessed = .

Chaos Space Marines x10
- Aspiring Champion with Plasma Pistol and Power Weapon
- Icon of Chaos Glory
- Meltagun
- Plasma Gun
230 points

Chaos Space Marines x10
- Aspiring Champion with Plasma Pistol and Power Weapon
- Flamer
- Plasma Gun
215 points

Don't ever take plasma pistols. Don't mix assault and rapid fire specials. Champs need fists. IoCG for both squads.

Khorne Berzerkers x10
- Skull Champion with Plasma Pistol and Power Weapon
255 points

Drop the Plasma. Switch to Fist. Drop to 8x.

Chaos Rhino
- Havoc Launcher
50 points

Chaos Rhino
- Havoc Launcher
50 points

Buy a third Rhino. Havoc Launchers suck.

Lesser Daemons x10
130 points

Fine.

Chaos Defiler
- Havoc Launcher
155 points

Don't ever take havoc launchers, especially on defilers. Get another Defiler for target multiplicity.

[minigun762]

HQ
Chaos Lord Kallozar - The Shackled One
- Terminator Armour
- Daemon Weapon
- Combi-Melta
- Personal Icon
155 points

ELITES
Chaos Terminators x5
- Terminator Champion with Powerfist and Combi-Melta
- Reaper Autocannon
- Combi-Flamer
- Chainfist
220 points

Terminator Lord looks pretty good, I've run the same combo with some success. With his bodyguard squad, I'd change a few things. Lose 1 Power/Chain Fist and the Reaper. Instead take the Heavy Flamer and some more Combi-Meltas. I would also consider taking Icon of Chaos Glory as you aren't Fearless and your Lord will be attached.

Chosen Chaos Space Marines x5
- Aspiring Champion with Plasma Pistol and Powerfist
- Icon of Khorne
- Power Weapons
215 points

Possessed Chaos Space Marines x5
- Possessed Champion
140 points

Drop 1 of these squads and use the points to bulk up the other one. Better yet drop both for more Terminators or Cult troops. 5 man squads of expensive units are not a good thing to have.

[

b]TROOPS[/b]
Chaos Space Marines x10
- Aspiring Champion with Plasma Pistol and Power Weapon
- Icon of Chaos Glory
- Meltagun
- Plasma Gun
230 points

Chaos Space Marines x10
- Aspiring Champion with Plasma Pistol and Power Weapon
- Flamer
- Plasma Gun
215 points

You need Rhinos, you also shouldn't mix Plasma guns with Flamers/Melta as one's assault and the other is rapid fire. Plasma Pistols are too expensive as well, use those points to give some of the guys Power Fists.

Khorne Berzerkers x10
- Skull Champion with Plasma Pistol and Power Weapon
255 points

If you want to have Plasma Pistols, put them here, but don't give them to the Champion as if it overheats, you'll lose your Power Weapon too.

Chaos Rhino
- Havoc Launcher
50 points

Chaos Rhino
- Havoc Launcher
50 points

I'd probably leave the Havoc Launcher at home, if you're going for close combat you won't be firing it much. If you want some extra firepower take 2 TL Bolters, much cheaper and 4 TL S4 shots up close ain't crap.

SUMMONED DAEMONS
Lesser Daemons x10
130 points

Fine unit, nothing fancy though.

HEAVY SUPPORT
Chaos Defiler
- Havoc Launcher
155 points

Why the Havoc Launcher? With Defilers you should either be firing the Battle Cannon or fleeting into combat.

[chillin]

Not a big fan of termi lords, too slow. I prefer winged lords.
5 termi's can be useful but I don't like your build. I'd give the champ the CF and drop the PF altogether. If you want a flamer in the unit just drop the reaper and take hvy flamer. I'd also add 1 or 2 more combimeltas.
Please tell me I'm mistaken, or are you spending 43 pts per guy on those chosen ?? Very poor use of pts. No point in taking 5 chosen anyway, not enough to do anything, and too easy to kill 5 guys, losing you 215 pts and/or VP's. Take full squads, or not at all (unless you making hvy weop/plaz squad for snipping).
No real fan of possessed, if you were to use them, 5 not enough (see above) (footslog possessed = waste of pts).
-
On to your TROOPS:
1- They all need rinos. 2- Drop the PP's on the csm asp champs and just give PF's. 3- never mix assault weops and plaz guns. 2 assault weops or 2 plaz guns. One's for rapidfire, the other for fire and assault. 4- I would drop the PP on the blood champ, always a chance he'll kill himself w/ it. 5- I would drop hav launchers on rinos, xtra TL'ed bolter if anything. IMO xtra armor on rinos is WAY worth it. Some disagree w/ me on this, minigun being one of them I believe , but I can't tell you how annoyed me opponents get when they stun my rinos and I ignor it and keep rolling.
Lesser daemons are good IMO, quite useful.
Don't see the point of havoc launcher on defiler, can't fire it if you fire battle cannon anyway. If you lose BC, just rush him into HTH.
-
The basic concept of your army is a good one. Mostly undivided BL with just 1 cult unit can be very strong, it's what I run myself.
Just need to make the changes me and the other guys have suggested (seem to be mostly the same , just at a glance)
I think I would use the points from those possessed and chosen to buy a LR for those brzrkrs.
Welcome to BL and B&C

[minigun762]

I just noticed that Chillin, Icon Chaos Brute and myself gave almost identical advice.
Think we may be onto something?

[Cornelias]

I just noticed that Chillin, Icon Chaos Brute and myself gave almost identical advice.
Think we may be onto something?

i ws reading through and thinking my reply out but the 3 of you pretty much covered it so i didn't bother posting

[Lord Kallozar]

Cheers for your comments its helped a lot. I totally understand about the 5 man Possessed and Chosen being too "squishy" but the real reason i took them is that they were bought for me by my girlfriend so i kinda feel abliged to use them lol so what if i completely dropped the Chosen and bulked my Possessed up to a 10 man squad with a Rhino?

But yeah defo gonna buy some more Rhino's for all my squads and drop the havoc launchers on them for 2 twin linked bolters. I'll throw in some more power fists for my champs too and have just flamers and meltas in my squads (no plasma's). I know a winged prince has been suggested over the termie lord and I have recently purchased a Daemon Prince but the damned thing keeps falling apart on me so I got tired with it and opted for a termie lord and started writing some background info about the lord, Kallozar.

Edited by Lord Kallozar, 01 April 2009 - 10:02 AM.

[Marked by Khorne]

Off topic; Ive been searching for the stats of the defiler's battlecannon.. couldnt find it.. Im really curious about it!

Could someone hit me up with it?

[minigun762]

Cheers for your comments its helped a lot. I totally understand about the 5 man Possessed and Chosen being too "squishy" but the real reason i took them is that they were bought for me by my girlfriend so i kinda feel abliged to use them lol so what if i completely dropped the Chosen and bulked my Possessed up to a 10 man squad with a Rhino?

That would be better. Honestly Possessed aren't horrible. At the bare minimum they're S5 with a 5++ save, this makes them semi-decent at engaging MCs or crushing T3 infantry. The main reason people don't like them is because Khorne Beserkers are basically the same unit but scoring. If you do use them, 8-10 guys with a cheap icon (I personally like Slaanesh as it gives them permenant Furious Charge and the chance for S6 I6) in a Rhino should work well enough. Use them as a disposable assault unit.

[daemon*hunter]

Off topic; Ive been searching for the stats of the defiler's battlecannon.. couldnt find it.. Im really curious about it!

Could someone hit me up with it?

if you dont mind breaking the law, its probably on games-workshop.com

on topic: i'd pretty much agree with what everyone else said, but not try to force my opinion on you.
Also - what do you fight? or is this just an al round 'try-to-kill-it-all' sort of list?

[Lord Kallozar]

Ok, so I have been doing some thinking and redrafted my list. Most of you will probably resent the fact that I have included the termie lord again, but as described earlier I have created background info for my Black Legionnairs with Lord Kallozar as the big bad boss
Again (as mentioned before) I do have a D Prince its just that it breaks a lot and plus I dont know how I would fit it in with my army background...

HQ
Chaos Lord Kallozar - The Shackled One
- Terminator Armour
- Daemon Weapon
- Combi-Melta
- Personal Icon
155 points

ELITES
Chaos Terminators x10
- Terminator Champion with Chainfist and Combi-Melta
- Icon of Chaos Glory
- Heavy Flamer
- Combi-Melta
- Combi-Melta
355 points

TROOPS
Chaos Space Marines x10
- Aspiring Champion with Bolt Pistol and Power Fist
- Icon of Chaos Glory
- Meltagun
- Meltagun
- Chaos Rhino
255 points

Chaos Space Marines x10
- Aspiring Champion with Bolt Pistol and Power Fist
- Flamer
- Flamer
- Chaos Rhino
235 points

Khorne Berzerkers x8
- Skull Champion with Bolt Pistol and Power Fist
- Chaos Rhino
243 points

SUMMONED DAEMONS
Lesser Daemons x10
130 points

HEAVY SUPPORT
Chaos Defiler
- Heavy Flamer
- Close Combat weapon
150 points

I'm quite pleased with this list and prefer it to my last one, especially as the total points cost has fallen to 1518!!! I decided against using the possessed at all but I'll manage to keep my girlfriend happy by using the possessed sprue to make all my asp champs look kick ass

@ daemon*hunter - its just an all round list really.

Edited by Lord Kallozar, 03 April 2009 - 01:42 PM.

[the jeske]

HQ
Chaos Lord Kallozar - The Shackled One
- Terminator Armour
- Daemon Weapon
- Combi-Melta
- Personal Icon
155 points

ELITES
Chaos Terminators x10
- Terminator Champion with Chainfist and Combi-Melta
- Icon of Chaos Glory
- Heavy Flamer
- Combi-Melta
- Combi-Melta
355 points

bad . no unit is worth 500 pts in 5th ed. specially not a non scoring one . [also on the looks side with counts as you can use any model and say it has any gear , expet one thing . you can call a jump pack wings and thats all].

I would really really drop some of the termis and buy the other one combi meltas [or plasmas] and give them the icon of khorn . also you should know that against many armies that 500 pts unit may never see hth . or if it does it may be something it doesnt want to fight [like 2 wright lords or a wrightlord +avatar as you may notice both cost less then 500 pts]

[Lord Kallozar]

Well my plan was to get the termie lord up close to the enemy before deep striking his "retinue" then charging all 10 of the termies (plus the lord) on the next turn or something like that anyway

But if not then I'll probably drop back down to 5 termies with a champion weilding a chainfist and combi-melta, MoK, Heavy flamer and 2 combi-meltas?

[Iron_Chaos_Brute]

This is how it goes against another CSM list.
1. Terms DS.
2. Terms eat 6-9 Plasma cannon shots.
3. You cry because 1/3rd of your army is gone.
Against orks.
1. Terms DS.
2. Terms eat nob bikes.
3. You cry because 1/3rd of your army is gone.
Against marines.
1. Terms DS.
2. Terms eat 7 TH/SS Terms+Vulkan from a LRC.
3. You cry because 1/3rd of your army is gone.

Big termie squads-just say no.

[Lord Kallozar]

Hey again, so ok, here goes a final revised list tell me what do ya all think this time?

HQ
Daemon Prince
- Wings
- Warptime
155 points

ELITES
Chaos Terminators x5
- Terminator Champion with Chainfist and Heavy Flamer
- Icon of Khorne
- Combi-Melta
- Combi-Melta
220 points

TROOPS
Chaos Space Marines x10
- Aspiring Champion with Bolt Pistol and Power Fist
- Icon of Chaos Glory
- Flamer
- Flamer
- Chaos Rhino with double twin-linked Bolters
250 points

Chaos Space Marines x10
- Aspiring Champion with bolt pistol and Power Fist
- Icon of Chaos Glory
- Bolt Pistols and Chainswords
- Chaos Rhino with double twin-linked Bolters
240 points

Khorne Berzerkers x8
- Skull Champion with bolt pistol and Power Fist
- Chaos Rhino with double twin-linked Bolters
248 points

SUMMONED DAEMONS
Lesser Daemons x10
130 points

HEAVY SUPPORT
Chaos Defiler
- Heavy Flamer
- Close Combat Weapon
150 points

Chaos Defiler
- Heavy Flamer
- Close Combat Weapon
150 points

Total points = 1543

Again I am sticking to a heavy close combat theme and yes, I have dropped the termie lord for a winged prince. I was wandering whether it could possibly be a good idea to drop the termie squad down to a 3 man termicide unit consisting of champion with heavy flamer and chainfist and the other 2 with combi-meltas?? that way it would drop the overall points total to 1448 leaving me points to play with. Or indeed keep the 5 man termie squad as it is and add other elements to bulk my army up to 1700? All help would be most appreciated, cheers.

[PlagueWarriorOfDeath]

First off, this is just semantics but, you know that CSM come with Bolter, BP and CCW all at the same time right? They end up using all three in the end.

Second, seems to be a very solid list.
Prince is never a bad idea, maybe give him a mark?
Termies are fine though you could still fit another combi-melta or two in there to make it a true termicide unit.
The rest of the list seems fine.

As for adding on to it to get to 1700, you could add another Berzerker squad, or even put the one you have now into a Land Raider, extending it's threat range. giving the other CSM squad some special weapons wouldn't hurt either. Outside of that everyone else seems to have covered it

[Lord Kallozar]

First off, this is just semantics but, you know that CSM come with Bolter, BP and CCW all at the same time right? They end up using all three in the end.

Yeah i know that they weild all three weapons its just how I'm going to model my squads, by modelling one squad with all CCW and bolt pistols I was just trying to add to the HtH feel/look of my army

As far as placing assault weaponry on the squad goes I'm gonna be adding two meltas or flamers again.

Second, seems to be a very solid list.

Thanks


Just one very final thing, do you lot think that dropping the lesser daemons for a greater daemon would be worth it? I feel that this option could really make an opponent mess his pants as there would be a greater daemon and a daemon prince charging together and demolishing all in its paths.

Edited by Lord Kallozar, 26 April 2009 - 04:41 PM.