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16 replies to this topic

#1
Tunagami

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So, I really like the thought of taking a little dash of each of the 4 gods and add some other stuff into a list that should work well. I am trying not to spam a lot of the same unit and think that what I am listing MIGHT be effective (honestly, I can't say since this is my first real chaos list ;-)).

Without further ado....

HQ:
Demon Prince, Wings, MoS, Lash
-- yup, I know, everyone runs them, but I like their ability to shepherd an enemy unit into position for either shooting or assault attacks

Elite:
3 terminators all w/ combi-meltas
-- termicide is what I hear it called? I like it ;-) I figure I drop them where they are needed with the help of having icons in all my troop selections

Troops:
7 x plague marines w/ 2 plasma rifles & icon
-- I figure they are great to start out on an objective and hold it all game.

8 x TSons w/ Sorcer w/ bolt of change, icon & rhino
-- All my killings be drive-bys: I figure working in tandem they should be able to soften a unit up for a charge from another unit, potentially from the following

7 x Zerkers + skull champ with pfist and icon
-- I figure these guys will help add to my HtH punch. They will be riding around in the LR below

Heavy:
Land Raider
-- Zerkers transport, but can also double to move around plague marines if need and also can give some decent AT

2 x Oblits
-- What can you say about them? They are flexible. Need anti-horde? Plasma cannons are good. AT? Lascannon/Multi-melta/Meltagun... depending on your range :(

Defiler
-- I like pie.

I know it isn't spamming anything, but I feel that it could be a pretty good fineness and flexibility army. Oblits and Defiler to give a decent fire base, while plagues hold an objective. The Termis are good stop gaps and/or AT. The zerker can be the hammer in pairing with the firepower of the Tsons or in tandom with the demon prince, who can be used to either direct shooting or assaults.

So, am I crazy? Is it too delicate? Thanks for any and all help and thoughts!!!!

#2
minigun762

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For a "true" Black Legion kinda army it should work well. Its close enough to the standard power list that you'll be competitive without being quite a cookie cutter.
With the Thousand Sons, I'd give them either Doombolt or Wind of Chaos for anti-infantry killing or maybe Warptime for HtH combat. Bolt of Change is rather expensive for 1 shot.
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#3
the jeske

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unfocused this list is . a single cult unit will never be a treat to any good build army . take max 2 different cult units [and even then it doesnt work for all , or example 1ksons and NM work best at 3+ per army ] . hvys should not be mixed . you lose one unit/tank and you find yourself short on anti meq or anti tank. if you use defilers take 2 , if you take oblits take 4+.

if you want to use LR then make a LR rush build 2 units in LR 2 in rhinos . a single LR doesnt deliver enough units to work good enough , its also easier to counter then 2 .

"Felix wondered how Calgar might feel about the primach's unilateral altering of the Codex Astartes. The captain could not help but feel that, in his drive for victory and efficiency, Guilliman had been careless with the feelings of his existing sons. Increasingly, Guilliman looked to the Primaris Space Marines as his first solution. He made no attempt to hide the fact that the days of the older space marines were numbered."


#4
Zhukov

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Well its quite simple to me:

A list like this well never be really competative, but it is not that bad either. Again its just the sad truth of the chaos dex.

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#5
Tunagami

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unfocused this list is . a single cult unit will never be a treat to any good build army . take max 2 different cult units [and even then it doesnt work for all , or example 1ksons and NM work best at 3+ per army ] . hvys should not be mixed . you lose one unit/tank and you find yourself short on anti meq or anti tank. if you use defilers take 2 , if you take oblits take 4+.

if you want to use LR then make a LR rush build 2 units in LR 2 in rhinos . a single LR doesnt deliver enough units to work good enough , its also easier to counter then 2 .


Well, how is this for a compromise:

HQ:
Prince: MoS, wings, lash

Troops:
Zerkers: 7 + champ w/ fist
Plague Marines: 6, 2 melta, + champ w/ fist
1ksons: 8 + sorc w/ doombolt

Heavy:
3 x LR

While I am still diverse on the troop choices & HQ, I have the consistency of 3 LR. I have to imagine that would be a harder nut to crack.

Or, should I switch out the the plague marines & MoS prince for:
6 noise marines with 5 sonic blasters and the champ with power weapon and doom siren
prince, wings, MoN, warptime

I am sure you see where I am going with this...... is it just plain up dumb or doable?

Edited by Tunagami, 07 April 2009 - 06:41 PM.


#6
the jeske

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While I am still diverse on the troop choices & HQ, I have the consistency of 3 LR. I have to imagine that would be a harder nut to crack.

nope thats not true . you have 0 consistancy . in fact list is out of focus even more . LR are assault tanks , if you use them to transport unit that are shoty[like 1ksons] you wasting the pts for the tank[its actually better to go with your list there and rhinos] . As I said before there is no such thing as diversity in w40k . there is spaming to make a list work . 2 LR +2 rhino units ? good list , when the units give the list focus , like 4pms or 2zerker/2pms .
I know that 1ksons look great at first glance . wow ap3. but then you have to look at the fact that they are still BS4 and that their bolters are only str 4 . so 1/3 will miss . half of those will wound , depending on the cover half of those will die . now if you werent in rapid fire range you all of the sudden find out that 1ksons kill more or less the same number of marines[or horde] as 10 man csm or NM . its better when they get in rapid fire range , but even then its offten not enough to kill a whole squad[not to mention the fact that stuff like terminators or units in hard cover laugh at them] with one 1kson squad . you have to 2 or more . As you may notice its not the most optimal option.

6 noise marines with 5 sonic blasters and the champ with power weapon and doom siren

dont make NM shoty and hth at the same time . 6 man is too few for good use of sonic weapons , its also too small for hth . Want shoty NM take 8 with sonics or a 5 man objective camper with a blast master. Want a hth unit[I dont find those very good] take 8 man an asp champ with syren with fist.

"Felix wondered how Calgar might feel about the primach's unilateral altering of the Codex Astartes. The captain could not help but feel that, in his drive for victory and efficiency, Guilliman had been careless with the feelings of his existing sons. Increasingly, Guilliman looked to the Primaris Space Marines as his first solution. He made no attempt to hide the fact that the days of the older space marines were numbered."


#7
Tunagami

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the jeske:

I hear what you are saying and I do understand it. I think you are correct and have 1 more list to throw out. Also, any changes you would make to make it stronger would be appreciated:

HQ:
Nurgle flying prince w/ warptime

Troops:
2 x 7 zereks + skull champ w/ fist
6 plague marines + champ w/ fist & rhino

heavy:
2 LR

That leaves me with 213 to play with and I am not sure if I should consider adding terminators (3 w/ combi meltas) or oblits, or a combo of the 2.

What do you think?

#8
Brother Gothard

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The first list was not bad at all, really.

HQ, Elites, and Heavy Support sections were just FINE: DP with Wings and Lash = A+ choice; 3 Combi-meltas can never go wrong; Obliters, Land Raider, and Defiler are all B+ or A+ choices. The only quibbles are with your troops.

Having 3 different cult units is not a TERRIBLE idea, but its not great, either because, as Jeske says, it lacks consistency. Taking 3 troops each with different roles is like taking a unit with a lascannon and a flamer; it just is not optimal (assuming the unit cant combat squad).

If it were my list, I would drop the defiler and maybe an obliterator and try to add in another Plague Marine squad. I might even drop the other obliterator to get rhinos for both PM squads. That, IMO, would be a better list.

But seriously, your first list is really not terrible at all.
"And you run and you run to catch up with the sun, but it's sinking and racing to come up behind you again"

#9
Tunagami

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But seriously, your first list is really not terrible at all.


What about my last list? I am kinda liking that too. :-D

As for the plague marines in a rhino, I could drop the fist and add plasma rifles as well since I probably don't need yet another expensive fist.

Edited by Tunagami, 07 April 2009 - 08:01 PM.


#10
Brother Gothard

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Well, I used to love land raider lists, but I found that once my opponents starting realizing how to beat it, it got boring fast.

Its just too many eggs in one (well, two) basket(s). If our LRs could shoot and move like the loyalist land raiders (how come their daemon engines are better than our daemon engines?!?!?!?! :cuss!!!!), it would be more viable.

So I dont play those lists anymore. But if you playtest it 6 times or so and you like it, hey, more power to you!
"And you run and you run to catch up with the sun, but it's sinking and racing to come up behind you again"

#11
chillin

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To me the last list is the best so far.
I would up the brzrkrs to 8 though. Definately add plaz to the PM's, they are custom made for it.
With the remaining pts. add a couple of oblits or more troops.

#12
Tunagami

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To me the last list is the best so far.
I would up the brzrkrs to 8 though. Definately add plaz to the PM's, they are custom made for it.
With the remaining pts. add a couple of oblits or more troops.


Actually, the zerkers are 8, but I wrote it 7 + the champ, which is supposed to be 8.

#13
the jeske

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yeah more or less the last one is best. as its 1500 the best set up would probablly be 2 Lr with zerker and fists and 2 small pm squads in rhinos[no champs no fists] with double plasmas. its far from optimal at 1500 .see I dont really like LR rush lists , for me they are too much on trick . they do ok against new players and weak lists , but strugle against top builds.
For me the best army for chaos at 1500 pts is 4 rhino squads or 3 rhinos squads but more oblits.

"Felix wondered how Calgar might feel about the primach's unilateral altering of the Codex Astartes. The captain could not help but feel that, in his drive for victory and efficiency, Guilliman had been careless with the feelings of his existing sons. Increasingly, Guilliman looked to the Primaris Space Marines as his first solution. He made no attempt to hide the fact that the days of the older space marines were numbered."


#14
Zhukov

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Haha Chillin you are taking advantage of every available opportunity to say that Plagues + plasma is gold, arent you :P

Well are you sure you want to play w/ 2 land raiders? Because I also played w/ it, but also think its kinda boring. Both for yourself and your opponents (the latter is of less importance on tourneys of course).

So think twice if you dont own 2 land raiders already before you're off buying them!

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#15
Tunagami

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I like the idea of bringing 2 LRs to the table. I like the models and think it would look pretty cool. I already have in my mind how I will paint everything and am kinda pumped with the idea for the scheme.

So, I think I am gonna roll with my last list (this to be exact):

HQ:
Nurgle flying prince w/ warptime

Troops:
2 x 8 zereks, inc skull champ w/ fist
7 plague marines, 2 plasma, rhino

Heavy:
2 LR
3 Oblits

I feel that it should be competitive enough without being SUPER cookie cutter. I understand going more rhinos, but I really like the thought of 2 huge LRs, screening the DP, tearing it across the battlefield and dumping out the zerkers and having the prince pop out and kick some tail too. As long as it is more than half-way competitive (it is, right?), I think I am ok :)

#16
Zhukov

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Yep it is competative enough if you are not too demanding. You will lose against really good oponents and certain lists (eldar, dark eldar mainly), but if you can live with that then you are fine.

I'm open to messages if you want help or advice from me.

 

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#17
chillin

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Haha Chillin you are taking advantage of every available opportunity to say that Plagues + plasma is gold, arent you ;


I knew I had recommended it a couple of times lately, didn't realize it was in the same army list review though :P