26 replies to this topic

[theredcorsair]

Well, here's what I'm proposing. We could make a system for having small fast vehicle skirmishes. This kind of popped into my head and I thought it would be terrible fun.

Generally I thought the units allowed would be like this (I'm not going to go into specifics for most other races and SM are pretty obvious)

• Bikes
• Land Speeders
• Jump Infantry
• Maybe fast infiltrator troops like scouts
• ALOT of the Tau and eldar elements will work, including the dark eldar.
• I'm not sure how we could include nids in the list, but we will somehow.
• Flyers
• Killa kans could be included
• For necrons, if they levitate, they're on the list
• Cavalry and Beasts

It's gonna be hard to devise a a rules system to make the movement in this type combat, and the fighting.

Cheers, CnC welcome!,
TRC

Edited by theredcorsair, 05 May 2009 - 08:11 PM.

[theredcorsair]

Maybe we should make different maneuvers you can do, sorta like aeronautica.
Of course, the maneuvers would differ from unit type, to unit type.

[Brother Martemis]

like some kinda chase?
stolen intel/assassins fleeing from attept being chased, orkss in looted imperi
that'd work, everything moves one way across the table 6 inches a turn and then units move 2d6 (or 3d6 if fast etc.) in the opposite direction
(hope this makes sense)
dunno about killa kans though, or infantry without any special equipment
shooting as normal and minor clashes in h2h (as troopers pass each other)

this seems to benefit bikers/ cavalry the most but tanks would throw an interesting twist into this, specially leman russ 'lumbering behemoth' rules

[theredcorsair]

Quite frankly, I don't like randomized movement. I like having set movements like in fantasy.
What I was thinking we could do is have different movement ranges and each speed affects shooting and assault.

[I AM THE AWESOME]

I've been thinking about much of a similar idea for Bikes. I'd say units could move in a couple of different ways:

Turbo Boost (3x Set Movement Value, can't do anything else)
Drive-By (2x SMV, can shoot one weapon and evade)
Normal (1x SMV, can shoot, charge, and evade)

I'm thinking phases:

Movement - something like WHF Chariots, maybe?
Evasion - some sort of Skill Test-based phase to conduct fancy maneuvers
Shooting - basically as 40K, but maybe penalties for moving
Charging - like charging in 40K, followed by delivering your # of attacks, but then you automatically continue your move another 6" in the direction you started.

NO Assault Phase. That's what's really bugged me about Bikes: they get locked down. This is to keep the game moving fast.

Maybe another rule could be a minimum movement value, again to keep the game moving.

[theredcorsair]

I've been thinking about much of a similar idea for Bikes. I'd say units could move in a couple of different ways:

Turbo Boost (3x Set Movement Value, can't do anything else)
Drive-By (2x SMV, can shoot one weapon and evade)
Normal (1x SMV, can shoot, charge, and evade)

I'm thinking phases:

Movement - something like WHF Chariots, maybe?
Evasion - some sort of Skill Test-based phase to conduct fancy maneuvers
Shooting - basically as 40K, but maybe penalties for moving
Charging - like charging in 40K, followed by delivering your # of attacks, but then you automatically continue your move another 6" in the direction you started.

NO Assault Phase. That's what's really bugged me about Bikes: they get locked down. This is to keep the game moving fast.

Maybe another rule could be a minimum movement value, again to keep the game moving.

THIS, is the kind of system people would want. Also, this isn't just for bikes, but this rule set would work very well for bikes. I think an assault phase is necessary but bikes would get large penalties when not on the charge.

[theredcorsair]

Just brainstorming here but....

Bike Normal Speed: 12"

Bike benefits and penalties in assault:
On the charge: Heightened strength, but less attacks, but at a higher I. Maybe a rule for running people over or crashing (now that would be interesting)
Bogged down: sorry, can't do that now have to leave.

[I AM THE AWESOME]

Yeah, maybe an Assault Phase is necessary if we include Jump Infantry and Scouts and Walkers, but I think the system will feel faster and maybe more streamlined if we stick to bikes, light vehicles, and skimmers. I started with bikes since they seemed like a good place to start.

But, if we're set on having an Assault Phase, then avoiding bogging down is a necessity, like I said. In my opinion, at the end of every fight, the winner gets a move equal to half of their SMV, during which they automatically break away from combat. If it's a draw, roll off for the move.

I'll put up more ideas later.

[Brother Martemis]

so would it be like racing laps?

sorry, i feel like i'm being a bit blonde, but is the terrain static as that'd result in quite a boring game IMO either "CHARGE" bikes clash
or swap places shoot, swap places, shoot.

i think the moving terrain would increase the sensation of speed, but you'd have to be careful not to speed off the board, lol

[theredcorsair]

so would it be like racing laps?

sorry, i feel like i'm being a bit blonde, but is the terrain static as that'd result in quite a boring game IMO either "CHARGE" bikes clash
or swap places shoot, swap places, shoot.

i think the moving terrain would increase the sensation of speed, but you'd have to be careful not to speed off the board, lol

Well, I expect a board for this system would be large (like 8x4) so moving terrain wouldn't be necessary.

Also, maybe we should make a static support choice for this game, to add some "big guns"
"

[I AM THE AWESOME]

Alright, if theredcorsair is busy doing other things, I think it's time I took initiative here. Would anyone be opposed to me throwing up a rough draft of the rules later on tonight?

[theredcorsair]

Alright, if theredcorsair is busy doing other things, I think it's time I took initiative here. Would anyone be opposed to me throwing up a rough draft of the rules later on tonight?

Sorry, kind of forgot about the topic here...

[Tutteman]

This sounds like a great idea guys. Only just had a look and I'm liking it. Perhaps you should just have rules that you can't get locked in combat. Charging is a bit like jousting. (Just my crazy revision induced mumurings)

[theredcorsair]

Tutteman then I call you to support this project.

This should be like jousting, LSs wouldn't like to be in combat very long, bikes aren't built for getting locked in combat, and all the other units would run away from jump infantry.

That makes me think we should give major combat bonuses to jump infantry, considering thats what they do best.

[I AM THE AWESOME]

How much are we going to rework shooting and assault? Should we edit stats? (E.g, Move value, Skill, some other stuff)

I kinda forgot too...

Edited by I AM THE AWESOME, 20 May 2009 - 05:44 PM.

[theredcorsair]

What I'm thinking here is this will be a much smaller game, with about 15-40 models per side, depending on how we make it and how big the game will be.

[Tutteman]

Very well, I shall step up and do what I can. Jump packs need to have some advantages, but some disadvantages. Like the fact that they are still, perhaps the "jousting" units only get one attack per a rider, and the jump pack people standing still get more attacks? Saying this though I'm very consious that this could develop into a huge load of off-putting special rules.

So perhaps we should start at the bottom and work up. What units will be included? Perhaps we should say only things that move faster than X can be used, with a few exceptions. If we do include walkers perhaps they could have special rules. Say like Dreadnoughts could drag down skimmers to make them crash...early days

And yeah, I'd say we keep this down to a low model count and big tables and plenty on terrain to dart around. Perhaps we introduce some rules for movement that are similar to BFG. e.g almost everything HAS to move some distance. Perhaps THIS could be the advantage of Jump packs, they can move any distance they want. This could add an element of realism to it as people can't just suddenly turn around or stop on the stop....EDIT: just realised someone has already suggested this kind of thing

(More crazed rambling of the Tutteman )

Edited by Tutteman, 27 May 2009 - 08:35 PM.

[theredcorsair]

Given your dreadnought idea, I think we're going to change this.

Maybe this thing could be more of an involved light skirmish instead of purely fast units.

[I AM THE AWESOME]

IF we rework the core rules and stats, then I think a Predator should be the Baneblade of this game: A big gun, heavy armor, and ridiculous points costs. To keep the game very different from 40K.

Here's for a crazy idea: How about no squads? E.g, field models on their own, but with the ability to form up into squads for bonuses maybe?

[theredcorsair]

I like that idea, considering this is a skirmish game and not some sort of large-scale thing, its appropriate.

(that goes for both)

[Tutteman]

I also like these ideas. Perhaps make the pred a lumbering giant, slow etc etc. But also capable of huge destruction.

As for squads, perhaps being in squads loses some flexibility, but gains something. All good ideas

[theredcorsair]

Does anyone know about aeronautica? When I first envisioned this I thought we might use maneuvers and such from it.

[Perry T]

I really like this idea and i think it would make a great variation to game play. I would suggest that as much is kept in common with normal 40k as possible. I also think that only fast models should be allowed ie. Jump Infantry, skimmers, bikes, jet bikes etc. OR only fast attack units. Maybe a 0-1 limit on non fast models. I think really low limits on points could work well making each model really unique but any point level could work(maybe up to 500?). Charging models could get extra attacks for the distance they have moved ie. move 6inches 2 extra attack, 12 inches 3 extra attacks, 18 inches 4 extra attacks. you could have it so they can't measure distance until they've declared a charge so there is a risk of not reaching them. charging models should get big attack bonuses. Maybe if they've moved further than 12inches then attacked they can make their attacks then roll a D6; on a 4, 5, 6 they move past before the other side can attack. this could be a bonus of larger squads defending the more members the higher the role needed to move past them is.

That's all i can think of for now. Wow iv'e written a lot sorry for anyone reading it. these are just some ideas that could be used if people like them.

sorry i don't know anything about aeronautica but special manouvers might not be such a bad thing

Edited by Perry T, 03 June 2009 - 09:15 PM.

[I AM THE AWESOME]

A couple of ideas for special maneuvers/manoeuvres:

(Note: unit refers to either unit or individual model, depending on who's using the maneuver.)

1) Swerve A unit shooting at a unit using this action re-rolls successful to-hit rolls. At the end of this unit's movement phase it must take d6 Dangerous Terrain tests (up to a maximum of 1 per model)

2) Dive Bomb Skimmers, Jump Infantry, and jetbikes only. A unit using this ability flies high into the sky, before descending on the enemy from above. The unit chooses one enemy unit within their Set Movement Value distance. This unit is then removed from play. In its next turn, this unit deep strikes within 6" of the chosen unit. It does not scatter, but may not move further, shoot, or assault this turn. However, the enemy unit must take a Pinning test with a -1 Ld modifier.

3) Tail A unit using this ability must always move directly towards any one enemy unit. However, that unit may not take cover saves for moving fast versus wounds caused by this unit.




EDIT: In response to the previous poster, howzabout this for an idea:

Momentum A unit that charges into combat deals 1 S4 automatic hit at I10 for every 6" it moved before reaching combat.

Edited by I AM THE AWESOME, 04 June 2009 - 01:13 AM.

[Tutteman]

Hmm, I like Awesome's idea for the momentum and special order type things. I agree we should keep this to small "armies" of fast stuff. I would like to re-alliterate my support to the idea that everything HAS to move a certain distance just because it adds some more skill to the game, it makes crashes possible just because you didn't plan far enough ahead. How about everything has to move at least X (whatever X shall be, say half max move distance) (guess where i stole that from )

This said Perry has a point about keeping this as similar to 40K as we can. We should keep stats almost totally unaltered and focus on thing like special orders and a few extra movement/combat rules. This should keep the extra rules nice and easy to learn, nothing complicated like BFG's gunnery charts

On a good point, I'll finish exams soon so I'll put some proper input in.

Edited by Tutteman, 08 June 2009 - 03:47 PM.