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(IA) Solidus' Legion


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#1
Solid Zaku

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This unfortunate news, however, meant little to an approaching Ork horde that had been stirred from their infighting in the planets' sparse equatorial plains. Requesting help from the Imperial Guard, a number of regiments were deployed to quell the greenskins and secure the planet for the Imperium, which they did.With only a skeleton crew of Mechanicum adepts, Sector Command decided to use Zakuvia as a sort of 'retirement' for Guardsmen who had completed their service. Eventually, with the movement of time, the small colony grew into a great Hive City with strong links to the Adeptus Mechanicus, and the protection of the ebon-armored saviors, the Raven Guard.

Zakuvia retained a militaristic setup in its governance once it became a colony. Regular tithes of troops were maintained, and the planet itself was ruled by a meritocratically appointed leader known as the Lord Solidus. The original 'Solidus' was supposedly a tribal chieftain during pre-Imperial times who managed to unite warring tribes during a massive Orkish attack. His name eventually became a title of leaders, and the Ecclesiarchy even began to accept the locals referring to the Emperor as the 'God Solidus'.



THE FINDING
Towards the end of M34, the Iron Warriors besieged Zakuvia. The Lord Solidus at the time, Inric Daes, knew of the traitor Legions penchant for excellance in assaults, and ordered his men to bunker down inside the massive hives of Zakuvia Primaris and Zakuvia Tertius. At the same time, he sent a distress signal to Deliverance in the hopes that the Raven Guard would arrive in time to rescue their doomed world. The message was received by the Ravenspire Tower, and help was sent in the form of the Raven Guard's 7th Company, which had recently returned from purifying a rebellion in the outlying sectors. Upon arriving in orbit over Zakuvia, the Battle Barge Death's Deliverance found the Iron Warriors in no mood to remain above the planet, and quickly drove them back into the Warp, uncharacteristic of their typical stubbornness. Fearing a trap lay in wait, Captain Alrun Cerev deployed a small unit of scouts to survey what appeared to be the devastation of the hives. The news they returned was astonishing.

At the behest of his scout teams, Captain Cerev made planetfall and found a planet in celebration. Although much of the great towers and other buildings of the hives had been layed to ruin under the oppressing blows of the Iron Warriors machines, the planetary defenders, under the lead of Lord Solidus Daes, managed to defeat the Chaos Space Marines through advanced guerilla tactics, luring the seemingly triumphant Iron Warriors into an elaborate death trap. Surprised at the efficacy of the planet's defenders, Captain Cerev announced that the 7th Company would recruit solely from Zakuvia and its crafty inhabitants, and would do so with the blessing of Deliverance.



SUCCESS
As the years progressed, much of the 7th Company was integrated with recruits from the planet, and eventually the Company was almost wholly comprised of Zakuvians, who displayed a tactical keenness unseen in many centuries. During these great times, the 7th was lauded with victory after victory, their unique guerilla attacks leaving the enemy with little time to react or defend against their relentless, pin-point accurate assaults. Unbeknownst to the Company, however, dark dealings made behind their backs would alter the course of history for them, bringing about an unprecedented change.



THE FALL OF ZAKUVIA

In M36.96, the 7th was stationed back at Deliverance, rearming and repairing after a successful series of raids against Orks approaching the Armageddon Sector. As though history itself were looping, however, a garbled astropathic distress call was received from Zakuvia mentioning betrayal and death. Deploying at an almost recklessly fast rate, the Company rushed to the defense of what was, to almost all of them, their home. Screaming down to the planets surface in drop pods, the Company had hoped that they would again find a ruined city, but a triumphant populace. Instead they found only a planet near-destroyed. Civilian and military personnel alike were found lying in the streets, shot or mutilated by what appeared to be well-machined blades, the vast cityscapes laying broken like a huge child's blocks, and even the bastion of the Lord Solidus was destroyed.

Questions bombarded the 7th's recently promoted Captain, Heiron Ictinaetous. Judging by the near-total desolation of the cities, it was judged that internal conflict was to blame. Worse yet, spent shells and massive tracks of a heretical origin indicated the return of the foul Iron Warriors. Only months later would the full truth of the matter be ascertained.

As the Inquisition and Adeptus Mechanicus sent investigators to discover the truth of the murder of the promising Hive World, the 7th would not sit idly by. Desperate for revenge, the Death's Deliverance burned through the Warp, putting their astropath near death in order to pursue their prey. To their fortune, the Empyrean was fickle even to its proponents, and the traitorous vessel Steel Vigilance was forced outside of the relatively safe corridor of the Warp. The 7th was no luckier, their realspace engines made inoperable by the rough transition to its natural plane. This mattered little to the Company, their need for retribution unquenchable. Using only enough firepower in their well-armed Battle Barge to disable the Iron Warrior's close-ranged artillery, the 7th sent in dozens of boarding torpedoes and Thunderhawks to assail the Chaos Space Marines up close, where their technological know-how and heavy weaponry would matter for nothing. Though the 7th's losses were grievous, and the horrors aboard the traitor vessel inexplicable, Captain Ictinaetous would personally see the leader of the treacherous Marines gutted on his Lightning Talons. When support came to repair the stricken Deliverance, the Iron Warriors vessel was towed back to the scene of the massacre of Zakuvia, where it was hurled into the planet's sun. Upon returning to the remains of their home, the final truth was learned.
Master Heiron on the Massacre of Zakuvia

What did we learn from this? What good could possibly come from the wholesale slaughter of our kith and kin? Why would the Emperor ever allow such a tragedy of such scale to occur? I pondered this for many months after we shot the Iron Warriors into the star, and I believe I gained the insight to answer this question. The Emperor lets no great evil occur without great good happening in its' place. From the ashes of Zakuvia came us, Solidus' Legion. We are a force feared throughout the width and breadth of the galaxy, and one that has saved it on many occasions, so I must ask, what if the destruction of our home had never happened? Would the Orks of Delaccor have made it to Armageddon? Would the Warsmith Ferdak have made planetfall at Cadia? Would any of these tragedies have occurred were it not for ours? These are questions we must take upon ourselves with quiet meditation and vigilance.
The reason the Iron Warriors were repelled by the fledgling Hive World the first time was neither the result of luck or tactical brilliance. It was instead an elaborately planned ruse in order to insert spies and saboteurs into the framework of the planet during the mayhem of war. Only when the Raven Guard came to the planet's aid did the true scheme of the Iron Warriors come to fruition. Using the fractious nature of Adeptus Mechanicus, the traitorous servants of the Chaos Marines began sowing discord through the typically agreeable Houses on the planet. As the formerly amicable factions began to distrust one another, the massive defense systems of the planet which would pose a serious threat to even the siegemasters of Olympus, began to fall into disrepair as the Houses spent their time and energy defending themselves from one another. When the Iron Warriors returned, they would find the mission of laying waste to the Hive World an exceptionally simple matter. As the massive orbital guns and artillery of the Iron Warriors blasted the city from without, cults of the Dark Mechanicum began to sow destruction and sabotage from within. As centuries-old redundant systems of defense began to fall apart or turn on their owners, little could be assured for the Zakuvians but death. Only one matter bothered the 7th in the end. Recovering a number of data-wafers from destroyed pict-thieves placed throughout the Hives, the investigators on the planet were nearly positive that the vile Warsmith Honsou was present during the siege. As the Warsmith was not counted as one of the dead aboard the Steel Vigilance, Captain Ictinaetous had only one option available to him: multiple elements of the traitor Legion were a part of the massacre of their beloved home.

Bloodied severely both in mind and body, the 7th Company was reduced to only a handful of Marines. Returning to the Ravenspire after their pyrrhic victory, the Chapter Master of the Raven Guard declared that, in honor of the noble sacrifices of the 7th, the newest successor Chapter of the Raven Guard would recruit from the few tribes of warriors that remained on the planet, and that any of the survivors of the of 7th could become the founding members of this new Chapter, with his blessing. Many of the survivors, including Captain Heiron, chose to accept this great honor, while some remained to reform the 7th to its' former glory, although Zakuvia was now the sole property of this new Chapter.




REBIRTH
Although they were now part of a new Chapter, it still had no name. It still had no foundation. It still had nothing that made it their own. While en route back to the remains of Zakuvia, the newly appointed Chapter Master Heiron supposedly was visited by a vision of the Emperor, one that showed him what the Chapters' fate was to be. He gathered the men of his fledgling Chapter down to the scouring desert of Zakuvia Tertius. Armored in their full battle plate, the men made a march that Solidus himself was said to have made, from Zakuvia Tertius to Zakuvia Primaris. For seven days they walked, the whipping sands of the deserts chipping away at the delicately painted liveries of their armor. When they arrived at the Thunderhawk that awaited them at Zakuvia Primaris, the Space Marines were now glinting silver statues, the iconography of their parent Chapter eaten away by the corrosive sand. Chapter Master Heiron had only this to say before boarding:

"Men. Stand now as Marines reborn into a new fate. Stand now against that which destroys the Imperium. From within and from without. Stand as Solidus' Legion! Vengeance is ours!"



HERALDRY

Solidus' Legion uses red, black, and gold in all of its heraldry, barring specific battle honors which are a multitude of colors. The black color signifies its genetic heritage as sons of Corax, and the Chapters' history as part of the Raven Guard. The color red, typically applied to the hands and feet, symbolize the blood of Zakuvia which they feel is on them for failing to defend their home. Gold is actually applied as a sort of in-house slur against the wastefulness and hypocrisy that they feel is rampant within the Imperium, which was one of the contributing factors to the destruction of Zakuvia as a Hive World. The Chapter's emblem is taken directly from the crest that belonged to Solidus; two red triangles, set on their tips.



BATTLE TACTICS

The Chapter largely uses the same tactics it had before it existed. On the offensive, the Solidus' Legion launches raids and suprise insertions into enemy territory, crippling their infrastructure and disarming their foe, allowing fast moving tactical units to efficiently annihilate their foe. On the defensive, the Chapter's Marines will lay hidden using ingenious trapdoors and territorial camouflage, catching their foe in deadly traps and ambushes, destroying them utterly with well-placed heavy weaponry.
Posted Image


The Chapters hatred for the Iron Warriors runs deep, and few Chapters could ask for better sappers and anti-vehicular combatants. In the middle of M38, the Chapter gained a name for itself by destroying the greenskin forges of Mek Blud'rench. Using shock attacks of jump-pack mounted Marines backed by precision sniper fire, the Chapter destroyed nearly a hundred Gargants and Stompas en route to the killing fields of Armageddon. Were it not for the warriors of the deathworld that is now Zakuvia, the beleaguered defenders of the hives of Armageddon would surely have found themselves destroyed under the feet of the Ork walkers.

In large-scale warfare, the Chapter is brutally precise. Instead of using berserker assaults or simply staying in static positions, the Chapter makes prodigious use of Drop Pods and low-altitude Thunderhawk insertions, placing themselves in harms way to buy time for other, less nimble forces to bring their larger weaponry to bear. The Marines of Solidus' Legion also take an exceptional joy when facing the greenskin menace, traitorous Guardsmen, the fell siegemasters of the Iron Warriors, or anyone, for that matter, who uses vehicles to any large extent.



COMMAND STRUCTURE AND RECRUITMENT

Seeing nothing inherently wrong with the formation of a Codex Chapter, Solidus' Legion chooses to retain its structure, with the exception of two scout Companies, which are instead Assault Infantry and Devastators. Additionally, there are no delineating markings between companies, as they see such heraldry as divisive.

Recruiting for the Chapter still takes place on Zakuvia, where the hearty inhabitants still manage to scrape out a living in the ash wastes and ruins of the hives. They are no less crafty than before the destruction of their society, but now use their keen wits to trap food and outsmart predators.

CHAPTER FAQ

Edited by Solid Zaku, 04 November 2009 - 08:10 AM.

Adeptus Psychologus

Arguably the most sigged frater in the Bolter and Chainsword

QUOTE (The Emperor's Champion @ Sep 26 2011, 08:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're a cruel, heartless monster! :o


#2
Solid Zaku

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=I= DELETED FOR YOUR SAFETY =I=

Edited by Solid Zaku, 13 June 2009 - 08:35 AM.

Adeptus Psychologus

Arguably the most sigged frater in the Bolter and Chainsword

QUOTE (The Emperor's Champion @ Sep 26 2011, 08:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're a cruel, heartless monster! :o


#3
Telveryon

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Solidus' Legion was formerly the Raven Guard 7th Company

Big issue this little statement, chapters never split from other chapters. Firstly, because of all that fierce loyalty of the chapter with which each battle brother is indoctrinated since he joins. Secondly, only the High Lords of Terra can create new chapters, if chapters would split up whenever they wanted, the High Lords would lose the little control they have over the Adeptus Astartes, something they would never accept.

++Edit++
You might wish to edit your first post instead of making new posts, it will be mcuh easier for everyone to keep up to speed on the last variant of your chapter.

Edited by Telveryon, 11 June 2009 - 08:44 AM.


Iron Gauntlet IA: Harbingers of Woe

Proud owner of the The Golden Defenders (everyone's favorite faithless bastards, favorite because I'm pretty sure their the only ones) and the Will of the Lost (everyone's second favorite skeletal marines, Apothete stole the limelight with his Black Friars)

#4
Solid Zaku

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Edited by Solid Zaku, 13 June 2009 - 08:36 AM.

Adeptus Psychologus

Arguably the most sigged frater in the Bolter and Chainsword

QUOTE (The Emperor's Champion @ Sep 26 2011, 08:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're a cruel, heartless monster! :o


#5
Solid Zaku

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I do agree. This is getting a tad ridiculous. The PS3 only allows small chunks of text to be written at a time, and it's really hampering my writing. I will wait until I have real computer access before I continue writing this article.

As per your complaint regarding the Companies split, I make the reasoning VERY clear in the full backstory. I knew before I got started that that would be a touchy topic of contention, but I tried as hard as I could to make my fluff bolter-proof...unfortunately you're just going to have to take my word for it until I get onto a real computer.
Adeptus Psychologus

Arguably the most sigged frater in the Bolter and Chainsword

QUOTE (The Emperor's Champion @ Sep 26 2011, 08:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're a cruel, heartless monster! :o


#6
gil galed

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As per your complaint regarding the Companies split, I make the reasoning VERY clear in the full backstory. I knew before I got started that that would be a touchy topic of contention, but I tried as hard as I could to make my fluff bolter-proof...unfortunately you're just going to have to take my word for it until I get onto a real computer.


It'd be easier for us to make is VERY clear that such things never, and i mean never, happen. This will be especially true of a first founding chapter as their ties to their primarch and their chapter could be said to be even stronger than a latter founding

#7
Solid Zaku

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Just a quick housecleaning post. I'm combining the previous three or four posts and deleting the excess ones. My brother got a laptop (that I built) for his high school graduation (wish I got something that nice B) ). I'll be writing more of my backstory tonight, and hopefully I'll get you guys to put down those bolters you've got aimed at my face.

EDIT: As of 2:48 MST, it's done! Now for formatting....

Edited by Solid Zaku, 13 June 2009 - 08:36 AM.

Adeptus Psychologus

Arguably the most sigged frater in the Bolter and Chainsword

QUOTE (The Emperor's Champion @ Sep 26 2011, 08:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're a cruel, heartless monster! :o


#8
gil galed

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I'm still of the opinion that it's really bad form to effectively commandeer a first founding chapter and bend it to your own fluff. I think the solidus legion would be a far better chapter if you dropped the whole raven guard 7th company in general. Just focus on the anti adept angle of the chapter. You've said that there is nothing to say you 'can't' just leave with a company which is true but i really don't think you should do it as it just removes the believability. Equally the "7th company respect this world so much they take it as their own" is again a bit silly. The RG have recruited from the worlds they have been for 10,000 years, i'm pretty sure if they weren't good enough they'd have chosen a new world.

I'd suggest you rewrite it so that they are a RG successor who has a run in with the admech and if you really want they can ask the RG for help and they'll turn it down or something.

~Gil

#9
Solid Zaku

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(In Palpatine voice) So be it...Jedi.

Okay. I understand that my alpha idea isn't really going to work. I'll rework the founding in the main post, please tell me what you think of my beta idea. I still like it, and I feel it still keeps with the 'guidelines' of DIY creation within the B&C.

Edited by Solid Zaku, 13 June 2009 - 05:41 PM.

Adeptus Psychologus

Arguably the most sigged frater in the Bolter and Chainsword

QUOTE (The Emperor's Champion @ Sep 26 2011, 08:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're a cruel, heartless monster! :o


#10
gil galed

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(In Palpatine voice) So be it...Jedi.

Okay. I understand that my alpha idea isn't really going to work. I'll rework the founding in the main post, please tell me what you think of my beta idea. I still like it, and I feel it still keeps with the 'guidelines' of DIY creation within the B&C.


where is this beta idea you speak of?

#11
Solid Zaku

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Um, as I said it's in the original post. But, to save you the searching:

THE FALL
..........So, an accord was made. During the 22nd founding, a handful the most stalwart members of the Company were granted leave of the Raven Guard, and would be the first members of a new Chapter.
Adeptus Psychologus

Arguably the most sigged frater in the Bolter and Chainsword

QUOTE (The Emperor's Champion @ Sep 26 2011, 08:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're a cruel, heartless monster! :o


#12
gil galed

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Um, as I said it's in the original post. But, to save you the searching:

THE FALL
..........So, an accord was made. During the 22nd founding, a handful the most stalwart members of the Company were granted leave of the Raven Guard, and would be the first members of a new Chapter.


o ok, its a start but i still don't feel that the idea of having the RG 7th recruit solely from your made up world is a good idea, commandeering first founding chapters is a bad idea in my opinion.

I think it would be better for the RG 7th to have a victory on Z. then sometime later a chapter to be founded there for whatever reason but specifically honouring the valiant 7th who fought the Iron Warriors. This means you arn't taking over an entire company of an official chapter and also makes it fit in better.

~Gil

#13
Solid Zaku

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Actually, I'm fairly happy with what I've done. I understand the 'guidelines' regarding 1st founding Chapters, but I've done nothing that adversely effects the fluff as it is. The RG keep the exact same formation that they had at the start, and it's not an entirely unbelievable idea.

I respect and honor Gil's feedback, but could I have a second opinion? Please sirs, can I have some more?
Adeptus Psychologus

Arguably the most sigged frater in the Bolter and Chainsword

QUOTE (The Emperor's Champion @ Sep 26 2011, 08:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're a cruel, heartless monster! :o


#14
Apothete

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Zakuvia Primaris is the only inhabitable planet of three in the Zakuvian system. A minor trading hub in the past for the vast freighters moving to and from Deliverance on their way to the Gothic subsector, Zakuvia became an odd, however functional home for many branches of Imperial society. First colonized by the Adeptus Mechanicus, Zakuvia was quickly stripped of the meager rare materials its' crust held. An errant probe had sent reports of vast adamantium reserves within the planet, and the Mechanicum was rightfully upset when it was discovered that the planet was a more or less barren rock.


Everything here is functional and informative, yet it's still strangely difficult to read. I'm not entirely sure how you could change it to make the text less jarring than it is, but it definitely needs some polishing.

This unfortunate news, however, meant little to an approaching Ork horde that had been stirred from their infighting in the planets' sparse equatorial plains. Requesting help from the Imperial Guard, a number of regiments were deployed to quell the greenskins and secure the planet for the Imperium, which they did.With only a skeleton crew of Mechanicum adepts, Sector Command decided to use Zakuvia as a sort of 'retirement' for Guardsmen who had completed their service. Eventually, with the movement of time, the small colony grew into a great Hive City with strong links to the Adeptus Mechanicus, and the protection of the ebon-armored saviors, the Raven Guard.


You and I both suffer from the curse of overly applying subclauses. The "however" in the first sentence is completely superfluous and doesn't add anything to either the flavor or the structure of the sentence.

That being said, you have a strange way of phrasing things that completely pulls me out of reading a paragraph all at once. The second sentence is a prime example of the problem since it manages to cram two completely different ideas together. You then move on to provide information about the sparsity of personnel without really coming up with a transition between the two, only to pile on a sudden and unexplained mention of the Astartes.

Zakuvia retained a militaristic setup in its governance once it became a colony. Regular tithes of troops were maintained, and the planet itself was ruled by a meritocratically appointed leader known as the Lord Solidus.


Appoinetd by whom? As judged by whom?

There's no explanation for what merits make for a good leader, who is going to be measuring the possession of those qualities, or how the society can be sure that the judges themselves aren't corrupt. That's a pretty major lack when you bring up an idea like a meritocracy.

The Lord Solidus at the time, Inric Daes, knew of the traitor Legions penchant for excellance in assaults, and ordered his men to bunker down inside the massive hives of Zakuvia Primaris and Zakuvia Tertius. At the same time, he sent a distress signal to Deliverance in the hopes that the Raven Guard would arrive in time to rescue their doomed world.


Apparently Inric didn't know much about the Iron Warriors after all, then.

They're the masters of siege warfare. Why in the world would you go somewhere and sit still so that the single most feared and renowned defense-breakers in the entirety of the galaxy? Would it not be more sensible to either try to take the fight to them so that they can't bring their enormous experience to bear? We're talking about the Legion that broke the defenses of Terra and who nearly trapped Rogal Dorn here. Did the ruler of the planet really think that they would be safe behind walls? If so, how does that reflect upon his fitness for command?

Quite aside from that, you have yet to explain anything that shows why they would call the Raven Guard in particular. A general distress call seems far more prudent given the circumstances.

The message was received by the Ravenspire Tower, and help was sent in the form of the Raven Guard's 7th Company, which had recently returned from purifying a rebellion in the outlying sectors.


In response to a planetary-scale incursion by one of the most feared foes of the Imperium, the Raven Guard send a reserve company?

Upon arriving in orbit over Zakuvia, the Battle Barge Death's Deliverance found the Iron Warriors in no mood to remain above the planet, and quickly drove them back into the Warp, uncharacteristic of their typical stubbornness. Fearing a trap lay in wait, Captain Alrun Cerev deployed a small unit of scouts to survey what appeared to be the devastation of the hives. The news they returned was astonishing.


I have a feeling I know where this is going.

At the behest of his scout teams, Captain Cerev made planetfall and found a planet in celebration. Although much of the great towers and other buildings of the hives had been layed to ruin under the oppressing blows of the Iron Warriors machines, the planetary defenders, under the lead of Lord Solidus Daes, managed to defeat the Chaos Space Marines through advanced guerilla tactics, luring the seemingly triumphant Iron Warriors into an elaborate death trap. Surprised at the efficacy of the planet's defenders, Captain Cerev announced that the 7th Company would recruit solely from Zakuvia and its crafty inhabitants, and would do so with the blessing of Deliverance.


Ah, yes.

This is pretty much a textbook example of the MISS (Me, I'm So Super) syndrome that people are advised against in the Guide to DIYing. If your homeworld is capable of driving off a significant Iron Warriors force without even having any Astartes on its soil, then what are they going to do for an encore once they do?

As the years progressed, much of the 7th Company was integrated with recruits from the planet, and eventually the Company was almost wholly comprised of Zakuvians, who displayed a tactical keenness unseen in many centuries.


This sounds Mary Sue. Please don't go down that road, especially not with a First Founding Chapter.

During these great times, the 7th was lauded with victory after victory, their unique guerilla attacks leaving the enemy with little time to react or defend against their relentless, pin-point accurate assaults.


So they were Raven Guard?

How does this make them any different from the parent Chapter?

Deploying at an almost recklessly fast rate, the Company rushed to the defense of what was, to almost all of them, their home.


If they were Raven Guard, their home would be Deliverance. Even saying that, I have a hard time believing that they would hold that much regard for their planet of origin after all the psycho-doctrination, time spent away, and other factors that turn an adolescent boy into one of the Imperium's finest. The loss of one planet is nothing compared to the things that can go wrong if the Astartes don't put their duty to the Empire first.

Without warning, the Tech-Guard of the cities Adeptus Mechanicus manufactories began to launch attacks against the hives, catching the relatively ill-equipped defenders off-guard, and causing massive damage and casualties. These forces were eventually bolstered by a battle-Titan of an unconfirmable Legio with Skitaari forces supplementing them, cementing the Adeptus Mechanicus' involvement in the massacre. Strangely, the Mechanicum made no effort to hold the conquered hive and, shortly after obliterating the bastion of the Lord Solidus' with a single, precise blast from the Titan's armaments, left, boarding their cog-wheel bedecked transports and heading skyward.


Why would the Mechanicus waste the time and material deploying a Titan to fire a single shot when an orbital strike would have the same effect?

During the initial settlement of Zakuvia by the Mechanicum, a number of stolen artefacts from the Dark Age of Technology were stored away on the planet, hidden in the vast reaches of the hives. Additionally, the various intrigues and politics of the Techmagi came to the fore, with the planets' Mechanicus leaders recently being declared techno-heretics despite decades of unimpeachable service to the Omnissiah. The 7th Company was stunned. Their home world had been locked in the crossfire of dueling elements of a petty feud within the Adeptus, and now their planet lay in ruin thanks to it.


This I like, especially since it fits neatly with the way that I prefer to view the Imperium at large. However, that doesn't solve all the other issues.

To say that the members of the 7th were outraged would be a gross understatement. Most demanded the blood of the priests of Mars for the terrible fate they had brought upon Zakuvia, but Captain Heiron knew that such a course of action would not only be suicidal, it would also mean terrible repercussions for the Chapter as a whole. So, a Grand Council was convened in the Ravenspire Tower to discuss the fate of the Chapter. Captain Heiron would not have the actions of the Techpriests go unpunished. At the same time, the rest of the Chapter would not have him bring them into conflict with the Mechanicus, given their long-standing place within Deliverance itself. So, an accord was made. During the 22nd founding, a handful the most stalwart members of the Company were granted leave of the Raven Guard, and would be the first members of a new Chapter.


In a word, no. This is a bad idea purely because something that momentous would have been mentioned within the existing fluff.

Even assuming that such a thing could come to pass and that the Raven Guard were going to second some of their own to raise a new Chapter, I seriously doubt that they would draw from the reserve Company. It's doubly damning that they have a personal stake in hating the Mechanicus and had advocated for bloodshed against them.

He gathered the men of his fledgling Chapter down to the scouring desert of Zakuvia Tertius. Armored in their full battle plate, the men made a march that Solidus himself was said to have made, from Zakuvia Tertius to Zakuvia Primaris. For seven days they walked, the whipping sands of the deserts chipping away at the delicately painted liveries of their armor.


They walked... between planets?

For seven days they walked, the whipping sands of the deserts chipping away at the delicately painted liveries of their armor. When they arrived at the Thunderhawk that awaited them at Zakuvia Primaris, the Space Marines were now glinting silver statues, the iconography of their parent Chapter eaten away by the corrosive sand.


I like this.

The scouring and rebirth is a nice touch.

Gold is actually applied as a sort of in-house slur against the wastefulness and hypocrisy that they feel is rampant within the Imperium.


This is a little strange, but I suppose it makes a twisted kind of sense. After all, nothing says that you oppose corruption like plating yourself in gilt as a protest.

The Chapter's emblem is taken directly from the crest that belonged to Solidus; two red triangles, set on their tips. Lastly, and most controversially for members of the Ecclesiarchy, the symbol of the Aquila on all Chapter heraldry is either cut in half vertically or beheaded. The Aquila itself is a representation of the union between Terra and Mars, and the Chapter sees no reason to honor such an ancient pact any longer.


...

Excommunicate Traitorus. Plain and simple.

The Chapter largely uses the same tactics it had before it existed. On the offensive, the Solidus' Legion launches raids and suprise insertions into enemy territory, crippling their infrastructure and disarming their foe, allowing fast moving tactical units to efficiently annihilate their foe. On the defensive, the Chapter's Marines will lay hidden using ingenious trapdoors and territorial camouflage, catching their foe in deadly traps and ambushes, destroying them utterly with well-placed heavy weaponry.


How do heavy weapons fit into a force that's intended to conduct lighting geurilla raids? How does this section, aside from a few details, differ from the Raven Guard in general?

The Chapters hatred for the Adeptus Mechanicus runs deep, and few Chapters could ask for better sappers and anti-vehicular combatants. In the middle of M38, the Chapter gained a name for itself by destroying the greenskin forges of Mek Blood'rench. Using shock attacks of jump-pack mounted Marines backed by precision sniper fire, the Chapter destroyed nearly a hundred Gargants and Stompas en route to the killing fields of Armageddon. Were it not for the warriors of the deathworld that is now Zakuvia, the beleaguered defenders of the hives of Armageddon would surely have found themselves destroyed under the feet of the Ork walkers.


Yet again, I would tone this down or cut it entirely. It's entirely too MISS while also managing to namedrop a famous conflict where we know the participants.

or anyone, for that matter, who uses equipment created by the Adeptus Mechanicus.


So they're Renegades?

Where are they getting wargear if not from the Mechanicus or their designs? If they despise the work of that august body so very much, how can they even wear power armor or carry bolters?

They rely on the generosity of those planets they rescue from being killed/eaten/both.


That doesn't dodge the fact that those worlds are going to be making use of either direct Adeptus Mechanicus facilities or plans and materials that come from them. Claiming otherwise is like saying that your Chapter hates psykers but is happy to make use of the Navis Nobilite.

As per your complaint regarding the Companies split, I make the reasoning VERY clear in the full backstory. I knew before I got started that that would be a touchy topic of contention, but I tried as hard as I could to make my fluff bolter-proof...unfortunately you're just going to have to take my word for it until I get onto a real computer.


If you want to be in line with the established material, then you still have work to do.

It's fine if you don't want to follow along with the things that make 40k into the grimdark universe that it is, but you're basically going off an rewriting or ignoring some very important things to suit yourself. We can all agree to disagree if that's the case but it also means that you're not likely to get much of use from this board.

Actually, I'm fairly happy with what I've done. I understand the 'guidelines' regarding 1st founding Chapters, but I've done nothing that adversely effects the fluff as it is. The RG keep the exact same formation that they had at the start, and it's not an entirely unbelievable idea.


Yes, you have.
You just had to look around you, Grey Knight, and you'd have seen it. What is Chaos? Suffering, you might say. Oppression. Deceit. But could not all of these things be said of your Imperium?
-Ghargatuloth, Prince of a Thousand Faces, Grey Knights.

The Exonerators Index Astartes WIP + The Inscrutable Index Traitoris WIP + The Black Friars Index Astartes WIP


#15
Telveryon

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Holy rattling on a jump-jet pogo stick! Mechanicus hate is a fad! :evil:

But anyway...

I fully agree with all that Apothete said, but I'll also add a few nitpicks of my own.

Surprised at the efficacy of the planet's defenders, Captain Cerev announced that the 7th Company would recruit solely from Zakuvia and its crafty inhabitants, and would do so with the blessing of Deliverance.

THat would never happen, if a company sufferers loses on the field they receive reinforcements from the Reserve Companies, that the role of the those companies. This is because it takes about a decade or so to make a space marine, a period a bit too long to be a viable form of reinforcement.

THE SEED OF DOUBT
Captain Ictinaetous and his closest council watched the carnage that the Lord Solidus' personal vid-thieves, their memory wafers hidden on the Lords person, had witnessed. Without warning, the Tech-Guard of the cities Adeptus Mechanicus manufactories began to launch attacks against the hives, catching the relatively ill-equipped defenders off-guard, and causing massive damage and casualties. These forces were eventually bolstered by a battle-Titan of an unconfirmable Legio with Skitaari forces supplementing them, cementing the Adeptus Mechanicus' involvement in the massacre. Strangely, the Mechanicum made no effort to hold the conquered hive and, shortly after obliterating the bastion of the Lord Solidus' with a single, precise blast from the Titan's armaments, left, boarding their cog-wheel bedecked transports and heading skyward. The companies own Techmarine was at a loss for reasoning behind the atrocity brought against his home world, and set out with a close guard of his brothers to discern the truth. After nearly a month of searching the wreckage around the Mechanicum-controlled area, Techmarine Senreich brought forth the awful truth.

During the initial settlement of Zakuvia by the Mechanicum, a number of stolen artefacts from the Dark Age of Technology were stored away on the planet, hidden in the vast reaches of the hives. Additionally, the various intrigues and politics of the Techmagi came to the fore, with the planets' Mechanicus leaders recently being declared techno-heretics despite decades of unimpeachable service to the Omnissiah. The 7th Company was stunned. Their home world had been locked in the crossfire of dueling elements of a petty feud within the Adeptus, and now their planet lay in ruin thanks to it.

Ok, while the Mechanicus aren't very concerned with human life, they aren't pillocks either. They would never stoop to such a low level for a mere petty feud. A massacre on the scale you describe would result in a general outcry against the Mechanicus for the rest of the Imperium if they did, and even they can't oppose the whole Imperium. The Mechanicus would either do this quietly or openly demand the cooperation of the authorities in the matter to apprehend the the offending tech-priest. If something like this would ever happen, the tech-magus that issued the order for the massacre would be declared tech-heretic himself and would be purge by either the Mechanicus themselves or another agency of the Imperium.

During the 22nd founding, a handful the most stalwart members of the Company were granted leave of the Raven Guard, and would be the first members of a new Chapter.

Only the High Lords of Tera can decide when and from which chapter a new one is to be formed, not the marines themselves First Founding though they may be.

1. Hey! A Company would never leave their parent Chapter, even though you gave a cool reason why! - Okay maybe they wouldn't...

Yep, the wouldn't...

2. Umm, how do they repair, re-arm, or re-equip since they hate the AdMech? - They rely on the generosity of those planets they rescue from being killed/eaten/both.

And may I ask how would the unwashed masses of the Imperium be able to build or otherwise acquire some of the most advance fighting vehicles in the Imperium's armory? Only the Adeptus Astartes, the Adeptus Mechiancus, the Inquisition and to a lesser degree the Sisters of Battle have access to the kind of equipment and none of them are ever in need of rescuing.

3. Zakuvia? Really? - Oh come on, like we don't all have one guilty naming pleasure when it comes to our DIY's. Least I didn't name my Chapter Master "Bob" or something.

I have no idea what Zakuvia is...

4. They can't cut up the Aquila! That makes them heretics. - No, they honor the Emperor...not weird dudes in robes who worship light bulbs.

The Aquila is a symbol of the Emperor and the Imperium first and foremost. By defacing it you practically deface the Emperor, that would make you a heretics in anyone's book.

5. So, does this mean they don't like the Iron Hands? - Yep. Not too fond of them. But the Dark Angels and Space Wolves have a beef, so there's a precedent.

Having a biff with the Mechanicus does not mean you have to have a biff with the Iron Hands, but that again that's not really an issue either.

Now, onto some general issues. First and foremost, as Apothete mentioned, Mary Suism is rampant, you really have to tone down things. Ok, we know, they're your chapter and you want them to be awesome but there is such a thing as too much awesome. Secondly, the company splitting from the chapter is not really needed, by simply having the Solidus' Legion's training cadre hail from the 7th company you get the same effect and none of the fluff breaking issues. Last but not least the whole Mechanicus hate is handled poorly. The reason behind the hate is perfectly viable, however having them hate anything made by them would mean they hate almost every piece of technology in the Imperium, including the vast majority of weapons. Moreover, there is no mention of how the Mechanicus feel about the Legion, if you hate the Mechanicus, they'll hate you back, with interest. My advice would be for you to read Octavulg's Stone Heards and my own (shameless self plug ;)) Golden Defenders to see how issues with the Mechanicus might be handled.

Edited by Telveryon, 18 June 2009 - 07:21 AM.


Iron Gauntlet IA: Harbingers of Woe

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#16
Solid Zaku

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Everything here is functional and informative, yet it's still strangely difficult to read. I'm not entirely sure how you could change it to make the text less jarring than it is, but it definitely needs some polishing.


Didn't really undestand this criticism until I saw...

You and I both suffer from the curse of overly applying subclauses. The "however" in the first sentence is completely superfluous and doesn't add anything to either the flavor or the structure of the sentence. That being said, you have a strange way of phrasing things that completely pulls me out of reading a paragraph all at once. The second sentence is a prime example of the problem since it manages to cram two completely different ideas together. You then move on to provide information about the sparsity of personnel without really coming up with a transition between the two, only to pile on a sudden and unexplained mention of the Astartes.


I do have such a problem. Curse having English as a first language! I fix soon, all be good. - KNEEL

Appoinetd by whom? As judged by whom? There's no explanation for what merits make for a good leader, who is going to be measuring the possession of those qualities, or how the society can be sure that the judges themselves aren't corrupt. That's a pretty major lack when you bring up an idea like a meritocracy.


Point taken. - KNEEL

Apparently Inric didn't know much about the Iron Warriors after all, then.

They're the masters of siege warfare. Why in the world would you go somewhere and sit still so that the single most feared and renowned defense-breakers in the entirety of the galaxy? Would it not be more sensible to either try to take the fight to them so that they can't bring their enormous experience to bear? We're talking about the Legion that broke the defenses of Terra and who nearly trapped Rogal Dorn here. Did the ruler of the planet really think that they would be safe behind walls? If so, how does that reflect upon his fitness for command?


I kneel at that one, but...

Quite aside from that, you have yet to explain anything that shows why they would call the Raven Guard in particular. A general distress call seems far more prudent given the circumstances.


Zakuvia's a hub between Deliverance and the Gothic Sector. - BOLTER

In response to a planetary-scale incursion by one of the most feared foes of the Imperium, the Raven Guard send a reserve company?


They were the only element of the RG there at the time. - BOLTER

Upon arriving in orbit over Zakuvia, the Battle Barge Death's Deliverance found the Iron Warriors in no mood to remain above the planet, and quickly drove them back into the Warp, uncharacteristic of their typical stubbornness. Fearing a trap lay in wait, Captain Alrun Cerev deployed a small unit of scouts to survey what appeared to be the devastation of the hives. The news they returned was astonishing.



Ah, yes.

This is pretty much a textbook example of the MISS (Me, I'm So Super) syndrome that people are advised against in the Guide to DIYing. If your homeworld is capable of driving off a significant Iron Warriors force without even having any Astartes on its soil, then what are they going to do for an encore once they do?


Again, point taken. - KNEEL


This sounds Mary Sue. Please don't go down that road, especially not with a First Founding Chapter.


I'll accept that...but I'm not kneeling, I could keep that if I really wanted.

So they were Raven Guard?

How does this make them any different from the parent Chapter?


It doesn't. They were still Raven Guard, with no real reason to differentiate too wildly from their original tactics. I will add some more clarifying tactical fluff later on, though.

If they were Raven Guard, their home would be Deliverance. Even saying that, I have a hard time believing that they would hold that much regard for their planet of origin after all the psycho-doctrination, time spent away, and other factors that turn an adolescent boy into one of the Imperium's finest. The loss of one planet is nothing compared to the things that can go wrong if the Astartes don't put their duty to the Empire first.


That's like saying the Ultramarines wouldn't notice Calth going boom. Yeah, it's not Maccragge, but it's still very important to many of them. Also, home is a bit of a metaphor.- BOLTER

Why would the Mechanicus waste the time and material deploying a Titan to fire a single shot when an orbital strike would have the same effect?


Fair enough, I just felt a Titan's involvement would have been cool, and especially Mechanicus-ey. - KNEEL

In a word, no. This is a bad idea purely because something that momentous would have been mentioned within the existing fluff.


I'm going to have to stand behind my work on this part. What canon about the Raven Guard? There isn't any, aside from their Codex (Astartes) mentionings. - BOLTER

Even assuming that such a thing could come to pass and that the Raven Guard were going to second some of their own to raise a new Chapter, I seriously doubt that they would draw from the reserve Company. It's doubly damning that they have a personal stake in hating the Mechanicus and had advocated for bloodshed against them.


Again, I must stand behind my work. It's not a matter that they're a reserve Company, it's that they are (were) Zakuvians. Also, I think they would actually have a stake in distancing themselves from the 7th, given Deliverance's ties with the Mechanicum. - BOLTER

They walked... between planets?


No, I think you misread. Zakuvia Tertius and Primaris are the planet's main Hive Cities, according to the first paragraph of the Finding section. - ACCIDENTAL BOLTER

Edited by Solid Zaku, 19 June 2009 - 04:12 AM.

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#17
Solid Zaku

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Excommunicate Traitorus. Plain and simple.


I don't think so. They're wholly loyal to the Emperor, albeit in exclusivity. - BOLTER

How do heavy weapons fit into a force that's intended to conduct lighting geurilla raids? How does this section, aside from a few details, differ from the Raven Guard in general?


D'oh! I just realized that when I saw your criticism. That's actually a typo I can't believe I missed, and will be fixed - KNEEL

Yet again, I would tone this down or cut it entirely. It's entirely too MISS while also managing to namedrop a famous conflict where we know the participants.


I'll tone it down a bit, but I'll keep the gist of it. I also don't think it's inappropriate to namedrop a conflict as massive as Armageddon. - BOTH

So they're Renegades?

Where are they getting wargear if not from the Mechanicus or their designs? If they despise the work of that august body so very much, how can they even wear power armor or carry bolters?

They rely on the generosity of those planets they rescue from being killed/eaten/both.


That doesn't dodge the fact that those worlds are going to be making use of either direct Adeptus Mechanicus facilities or plans and materials that come from them. Claiming otherwise is like saying that your Chapter hates psykers but is happy to make use of the Navis Nobilite.


The Codecii mention that there are a lot of Chapters that dislike and distrust Psykers, and I doubt they walk from sector to sector. Apart from that nitpick, most planets are well stocked with bolt-rounds, las-weaponry and the like. I'm running through my head how they get around to repairs without something too ridiculous, so thanks for pointing that out. - BOTH

If you want to be in line with the established material, then you still have work to do.


Apparently.

It's fine if you don't want to follow along with the things that make 40k into the grimdark universe that it is, but you're basically going off an rewriting or ignoring some very important things to suit yourself. We can all agree to disagree if that's the case but it also means that you're not likely to get much of use from this board.


Actually, (if this post isn't proof enough), I'm quite open to feedback regarding my use of canonicity.


Now, onto Telvyron's nitpickery!

THat would never happen, if a company sufferers loses on the field they receive reinforcements from the Reserve Companies, that the role of the those companies. This is because it takes about a decade or so to make a space marine, a period a bit too long to be a viable form of reinforcement.


What are you talking about, my guys don't take casualties! J/k, but in all honesty, that's something I hadn't fully considered. - KNEEL

Ok, while the Mechanicus aren't very concerned with human life, they aren't pillocks either. They would never stoop to such a low level for a mere petty feud.



Oh, I think if archaeotech was in the mix, methinks they would. Plus, as Apoth mentioned, planets have been completely destroyed for much less by other organizations within the Imperium. - BOLTER

Only the High Lords of Tera can decide when and from which chapter a new one is to be formed, not the marines themselves First Founding though they may be.


I believe in the DIY section, it is stated that you can use a handful of members from a prior Chapter to create something of a 1st Company for a new one. Also, the Founding was already scheduled by the High Lords, it's just that Deliverance requested a few less progenoids, if you catch my drift. - BOLTER

The Aquila is a symbol of the Emperor and the Imperium first and foremost. By defacing it you practically deface the Emperor, that would make you a heretics in anyone's book.



No, the Aquila is actually a symbol of the union between Terra and Mars, not the Emperor, albeit it was he who founded the union. I will rewrite it so that only one head is removed, in lieu of both, which does actually validate your complaint. - BOTH

Thanks guys, I'll be hot on the keyboard tonight making fixes. Again though, more brains are needed, I must not have plot holes!
Adeptus Psychologus

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#18
Telveryon

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I'll accept that...but I'm not kneeling, I could keep that if I really wanted.

You could, but then people would think your chapter is tacky, we don't like tacky.

That's like saying the Ultramarines wouldn't notice Calth going boom. Yeah, it's not Maccragge, but it's still very important to many of them. Also, home is a bit of a metaphor.- BOLTER

Calth is part of the Realm of Ultramar, the Ultramarines are directly responsible for that planet. The Raven Guard do not have such a realm, never hand and most likely never will, in other words you planet would be like any other for the Raven Guard.

I'm going to have to stand behind my work on this part. What canon about the Raven Guard? There isn't any, aside from their Codex (Astartes) mentionings. - BOLTER

Actually there is a thing called the Raven Guard Index Astartes, pretty official looking. It's printed in a book and all that tomfoolery, Index Astartes IV I think it is, but don't quote me on that. You might wish to get your hands on that piece of writing before you do much more work on these fellows, if you have something too big that is not mentioned in that text you should cut it.

Again, I must stand behind my work. It's not a matter that they're a reserve Company, it's that they are (were) Zakuvians. Also, I think they would actually have a stake in distancing themselves from the 7th, given Deliverance's ties with the Mechanicum. - BOLTER

And as mentioned before, the Raven Guard would only recruit from Deliverance it's their homeworld and I'm quite sure it's the only place they have a right to recruit from.

I don't think so. They're wholly loyal to the Emperor, albeit in exclusivity. - BOLTER

Irrelevant, if you deface the symbols of the Emperor and the Imperium, your a a heretic no matter how loyal to the Emperor you think you are. The Inquisition and Ecclesiarchy really don't care what you think.

I'll tone it down a bit, but I'll keep the gist of it. I also don't think it's inappropriate to namedrop a conflict as massive as Armageddon. - BOTH

You may not think it, but the rest of us do. Having your chapter swoop on wings of fire and obliterate all in their path when other older official chapters couldn't in such a well documented campaign as Armageddon makes you guilty of Mary Sue-ism, no one likes Mary Sue-ism. If you want to be involved in the Armageddon campaign either make your force very small or have it help with the clean up.

The Codecii mention that there are a lot of Chapters that dislike and distrust Psykers, and I doubt they walk from sector to sector. Apart from that nitpick, most planets are well stocked with bolt-rounds, las-weaponry and the like. I'm running through my head how they get around to repairs without something too ridiculous, so thanks for pointing that out. - BOTH

Bolt-rounds are quite rare actually, only heavy bolters seem to quite common... Moreover what would a space marine do with lasguns?

Apparently.

Certainly. :lol:

Oh, I think if archaeotech was in the mix, methinks they would. Plus, as Apoth mentioned, planets have been completely destroyed for much less by other organizations within the Imperium. - BOLTER

The key thing word is "other". The Adeptus Mechanicus are responsible with supplying the Imperium with its weapons and not to police it, that's the Inquisition's job, massacring a whole hive just to get some archo-tech would definitely be beyond their mandate something the Inquisition and Arbiters would not be very ken on. Las but not least I doubt the Imperium has blown up planets just because its inhabitants wouldn't share their toys.

I believe in the DIY section, it is stated that you can use a handful of members from a prior Chapter to create something of a 1st Company for a new one. Also, the Founding was already scheduled by the High Lords, it's just that Deliverance requested a few less progenoids, if you catch my drift. - BOLTER

Yes you can, but it's the High Lords that decide which chapter provides the gene-seed and training cadre, not the chapter... Moreover, a chapter in more or less ready to go when it is first formed, they have at least a few companies of full battle brothers, it's the job of the training cadre to polish their training until they are as good as the reast of the Adeptus Astartes. And no, I did catch it....

No, the Aquila is actually a symbol of the union between Terra and Mars, not the Emperor, albeit it was he who founded the union. I will rewrite it so that only one head is removed, in lieu of both, which does actually validate your complaint. - BOTH

Actually it is, the Emperor's original symbol was the Lightning bolt but He changed it to the Aquila during the Great Crusade. You might wish to read the Emperor's Children IA for confirmation.

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#19
Apothete

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To save us all time, I'll only reply to the places we still disagree.

Zakuvia's a hub between Deliverance and the Gothic Sector. - BOLTER


...and the Raven Guard would give up a key world within their sphere of influence?

This is still an issue until you've resolved the problems with the Seventh Company, anyway.

They were the only element of the RG there at the time. - BOLTER


You might want to make mention of that, and it's going to be interesting to see how you write a reserve company managing to beat the Iron Warriors. That problem isn't going away either without either some creative tap dancing on your part or a rewrite of that section.

I'll accept that...but I'm not kneeling, I could keep that if I really wanted.


You could keep choosing to detail a Games Workshop Chapter where we already possess some knowledge of their doctrines, practices, and history? I don't recall anything in their Index Astartes article that said they were recruiting from far-flung worlds, but rather than they got most of their recruits from Deliverance and Kiavhar.

What's the point of asking for advice if you're going to ignore it?

That's like saying the Ultramarines wouldn't notice Calth going boom. Yeah, it's not Maccragge, but it's still very important to many of them. Also, home is a bit of a metaphor.- BOLTER


I still don't buy it, especially since you haven't made mention of the one thing that's true of the Raven Guard which might go even partway to justifying this.

I'm going to have to stand behind my work on this part. What canon about the Raven Guard? There isn't any, aside from their Codex (Astartes) mentionings. - BOLTER


It's the same canon that smacked me down some time ago, thanks to articles I hadn't yet read on subjects that might surprise you. Some of the Index Astartes articles would probably be useful in this case. Like, say, the Raven Guard...

Again, I must stand behind my work. It's not a matter that they're a reserve Company, it's that they are (were) Zakuvians. Also, I think they would actually have a stake in distancing themselves from the 7th, given Deliverance's ties with the Mechanicum. - BOLTER


Sure, and I think you have it backwards.

Whether or not they're Zakuvians, they're basically rank amateurs compared to the experience and might of a veteran Company and those are the Brothers you would want to be raising a new generation. A successor is going to be looked upon as a reflection of their parent Chapter in some corners, something that it would probably be a good idea to pursue seriously rather than just picking the guys who come from that world and tossing them back. Even if the Raven Guard wanted to distance themselves from the Seventh, just about the stupidest thing they could do is to hand them a batch of fresh recruits while telling the Adeptus Terra and the High Lords that this is the best that they can come up with.

A training cadre isn't meant to replace the marines that they will be raising, it's purely there to indoctrinate and train them in the proper way to be a Space Marine. If the viewpoints of the Seventh are dangerous and need to be distanced, sanction from within the Chapter is a far more sensible approach than handing them a malleable lot of novices of their own. It's a reward for incredible service, not a coverup.

No, I think you misread. Zakuvia Tertius and Primaris are the planet's main Hive Cities, according to the first paragraph of the Finding section


Then you've accidentally used the naming conventions that many other people use for planets within a solar system.

I don't think so. They're wholly loyal to the Emperor, albeit in exclusivity. - BOLTER


How can you claim that they're wholly loyal to the Emperor when they pick and choose which of his creations to honor?

We're talking about an organization that he thought was so important that the primary emblem of the Imperium is symbolic of the treaty between the government and the Mechanicus. What's next if they reject the Mechanicus? Should they ignore the High Lords whenever they feel like it? How about the Inquisition?

I'll tone it down a bit, but I'll keep the gist of it. I also don't think it's inappropriate to namedrop a conflict as massive as Armageddon. - BOTH


I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

The Codecii mention that there are a lot of Chapters that dislike and distrust Psykers, and I doubt they walk from sector to sector. Apart from that nitpick, most planets are well stocked with bolt-rounds, las-weaponry and the like. I'm running through my head how they get around to repairs without something too ridiculous, so thanks for pointing that out. - BOTH


Actually, bolt rounds are ridiculously uncommon and only manufactured for particular forces within the Imperium. You'd have more of an argument on this front if your Chapter was using lasguns or autoguns, since those are stamped out in truly mind numbing amounts, along with their ammunition.

What "most planets" aren't going to have is the ability to fabricate, repair, and consecrate the important things like power armor, bolters, Rhinos, the ships that your Chapter needs, and so on. Even if they were to cut a deal with the Imperial Navy somehow, the technicians who work on the ships in the yards are Mechanicus.

Oh, I think if archaeotech was in the mix, methinks they would. Plus, as Apoth mentioned, planets have been completely destroyed for much less by other organizations within the Imperium. - BOLTER


There are better ways for the Mechanicus to get what they want, especially since there's this little thing where the Emperor of Man signed a treat that promised them all STC templates and implied they'd get the bulk of archeotech. Whether through outright threats, the use of political pressure, or withdrawing all Mechanicus support from the planet so that its cities, factories, and everything else that matters falls apart without their attention, they could find a way that didn't involve blowing up the populace.

It just feeld contrived, like you're trying to force the conflict with them through making a boogey man where there isn't one.

I believe in the DIY section, it is stated that you can use a handful of members from a prior Chapter to create something of a 1st Company for a new one. Also, the Founding was already scheduled by the High Lords, it's just that Deliverance requested a few less progenoids, if you catch my drift. - BOLTER


So the Mechanicus, who you hate, are going to select the geneseed of an unstable Chapter with known mutations to found a new one, which is then going to be headed and trained by the very same Marines who hate the people who condition and provide the material?

No, the Aquila is actually a symbol of the union between Terra and Mars, not the Emperor, albeit it was he who founded the union. I will rewrite it so that only one head is removed, in lieu of both, which does actually validate your complaint. - BOTH


Though quoting from a wiki is usually not the world's best idea...

The Aquila is a two headed eagle, and represents the entire Imperium of Mankind. During the times before the Horus Heresy, the two headed eagle was blind-folded on one side, and the other had eyes. The backward facing blinded side represented looking back into the past, while the forward facing sighted eagle was looking into the future. After the Heresy, and the Imperial Cult took hold, the Aquila's means changed to represent the two headed Empire of the Imperium and the Adeptus Mechanicus.


No, it's not just a symbol of the treaty, it does represent the Imperium as a whole, and I would seriously doubt that anyone who looked at Marines wearing a deliberately defaced aquila would think they were anything other than Traitors or Renegades.
You just had to look around you, Grey Knight, and you'd have seen it. What is Chaos? Suffering, you might say. Oppression. Deceit. But could not all of these things be said of your Imperium?
-Ghargatuloth, Prince of a Thousand Faces, Grey Knights.

The Exonerators Index Astartes WIP + The Inscrutable Index Traitoris WIP + The Black Friars Index Astartes WIP


#20
gil galed

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I'd point out that no you can't just put your army into armageddon, its a war whose participants are all listed in various gw fluff, hence your going against fluff writing yourself in

#21
The Blood Reaver

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By any chance solid zaku , are you a fan of mgs ?

#22
Solid Zaku

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To answer bloodreaver, yes I am, but I had my Chapter's name down before MGS2 came out. You can wiki the word 'Solidus' to see what it also means. Speaking of which, I've never used Wikipedia for canon-checking. I actually got my knowledge of the Aquila's symbolism from the Horus Heresy novels.

Okay, I'm not going to quote flood this time, I'm just going to go by the most nagging issues, and trust you've read the prior posts.

ARMAGEDDON: Look, this battle was gargantuan, and involved every single element of the Imperium. Yes, Chapters like the Blood Angels, Black Templars and such were very visible in the 3rd War. However, given the strategic importance of the planet to the Imperium, and the lure of fighting to the Orks, is it so difficult to believe that more than just those illustrious few were involved, even in a lesser form? And Throne's sakes, I'll tone down the 'We killed a zillion Gargants single-handed' line...

FOUNDING: Okay, I've painted myself into a fairly serious corner on this one, and I don't know how to get myself out. Could I have some help that won't turn me into either a Mary-Sue Chapter, or a pariah?

WEAPONRY: Yes, bolt-rounds are (relatively) rare. But surely a planet has at least a small stock of them, at the very least enough to supply a Marine Chapter for a few months. Imperial Guard officers are often armed with either bolt guns or pistols. And by las-weaponry, I meant lascannons.

ADMECH: Most of the complaints here are leveled at their destruction of my Chapter's homeworld. Look, politics aren't some alien concept to them, and every Chapter has to have something that differentiates them in their creation from each other.

AQUILA: Argh! I'm going to cut it, but I'm rather unhappy. The Blood Ravens (and I can't believe I'm referencing them), use single-headed eagles in their iconography.
Adeptus Psychologus

Arguably the most sigged frater in the Bolter and Chainsword

QUOTE (The Emperor's Champion @ Sep 26 2011, 08:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're a cruel, heartless monster! :o


#23
Telveryon

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To answer bloodreaver, yes I am, but I had my Chapter's name down before MGS2 came out. You can wiki the word 'Solidus' to see what it also means. Speaking of which, I've never used Wikipedia for canon-checking. I actually got my knowledge of the Aquila's symbolism from the Horus Heresy novels.

Official Index Astartes trumps novels...

ARMAGEDDON: Look, this battle was gargantuan, and involved every single element of the Imperium. Yes, Chapters like the Blood Angels, Black Templars and such were very visible in the 3rd War. However, given the strategic importance of the planet to the Imperium, and the lure of fighting to the Orks, is it so difficult to believe that more than just those illustrious few were involved, even in a lesser form? And Throne's sakes, I'll tone down the 'We killed a zillion Gargants single-handed' line...

True, but unfortunately the campaign is rather well documented, all the major player have been named. So, you can't have your chapter saving hive cities unless their one of the GW named chapters. You can however have you chapter be a minor player in those events.

FOUNDING: Okay, I've painted myself into a fairly serious corner on this one, and I don't know how to get myself out. Could I have some help that won't turn me into either a Mary-Sue Chapter, or a pariah?

Just have your chapter founded like any other. You don't need a whole company for hate to perpetuate. Also, drop the bit about the 7th company recruiting from Zakuvia, the Raven Guard has standard recruiting methods and not self sufficient companies like the Space Wolves.


WEAPONRY: Yes, bolt-rounds are (relatively) rare. But surely a planet has at least a small stock of them, at the very least enough to supply a Marine Chapter for a few months. Imperial Guard officers are often armed with either bolt guns or pistols. And by las-weaponry, I meant lascannons.

Only worlds with a AdMech presence would have enough bolter rounds to supply a chapter for months, and lascannons don't grow on trees ether. Moreover, a chapter need more then bolter rounds and lascannons, they need plasma weapons, advanced vehicles, power armor and other such advance equipment that can only be found on Space Marine homeworlds and forgeworlds and only the most technically minded of chapters can hope to produce those in any kind of decent numbers.

ADMECH: Most of the complaints here are leveled at their destruction of my Chapter's homeworld. Look, politics aren't some alien concept to them, and every Chapter has to have something that differentiates them in their creation from each other.

Firstly, true, politics aren't an alien concept, attacks that don't make sense should be though. My biggest complaint is that you have not solved how do the Mechanicus react to your chapter. If your chapter hates the Mechanicus so will the Mechanicus hate your chapter. Remember, it's the Mechanicus that receive the gene seed tithes and it's also they who will test it for purity. If you don't give them the tithed you get in trouble, you give them the tithes they'll make trouble for you.

AQUILA: Argh! I'm going to cut it, but I'm rather unhappy. The Blood Ravens (and I can't believe I'm referencing them), use single-headed eagles in their iconography.

The symbol the Blood Ravens use in not the Aquila it's a raven...

Edited by Telveryon, 19 June 2009 - 06:50 PM.


Iron Gauntlet IA: Harbingers of Woe

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#24
Solid Zaku

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Just to clarify something, my Chapter never set foot on Armageddon, in case that's what people were thinking. I suppose I wasn't very specific: the Chapter destroyed (one or two) Gargants being built in an outlying world, not the big A.
Adeptus Psychologus

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QUOTE (The Emperor's Champion @ Sep 26 2011, 08:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're a cruel, heartless monster! :o


#25
Telveryon

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The Chapters hatred for the Adeptus Mechanicus runs deep, and few Chapters could ask for better sappers and anti-vehicular combatants. In the middle of M38, the Chapter gained a name for itself by destroying the greenskin forges of Mek Blood'rench. Using shock attacks of jump-pack mounted Marines backed by precision sniper fire, the Chapter destroyed nearly a hundred Gargants and Stompas en route to the killing fields of Armageddon. Were it not for the warriors of the deathworld that is now Zakuvia, the beleaguered defenders of the hives of Armageddon would surely have found themselves destroyed under the feet of the Ork walkers.

I presume you mean this part... There are three issues here.
  • First, there is no indication that this is planet other then Armageddon.
  • Secondly, there were no orks on Armageddon in M38. All the wars on Armageddon took place in M41.
  • They still killed far too many Gargants and Stompas


Iron Gauntlet IA: Harbingers of Woe

Proud owner of the The Golden Defenders (everyone's favorite faithless bastards, favorite because I'm pretty sure their the only ones) and the Will of the Lost (everyone's second favorite skeletal marines, Apothete stole the limelight with his Black Friars)