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IA: The Knights Seraphic


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#1
DarkGuard

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The Knights Seraphic

Origins
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The Knights Seraphic were formed during the Seventh Founding from the geneseed of the venerable Dark Angels. Interrogator-Chaplain Atonius led the training cadre that sought to build the fledgling Chapter. Initial recruits came from a number of planets in the Segmentum Tempestus, but after Atonius named the feudal world of Ciasus as the Chapter's home world it was the children of that world's chivalric knightly orders who provided the strong warriors the Chapter needed. Atonius was impressed by the reverence for duty and chivalry prominent in the culture of the world, and so named the Chapter the Knights Seraphic, after the fiery angels of local myth and the darker angels of the Chapter's superhuman ancestry.

The first Chapter Master of the Knights Seraphic was young Auriel Karnak, who had proved instrumental in repelling an Ork incursion on Ciasus and demonstrated an aptitude for leadership and strategy throughout his training. With Atonius' mentorship and guidance, Chapter Master Karnak embarked on a successful crusade against the Ork systems which dotted the space around Ciasus. Though the fighting was fierce and the greenskins were dangerous foes, careful assaults on clan leaders broke the back of the petty Ork kingdoms, driving them into the anarchy and infighting which always lurks below the surface of greenskin culture. Divided and weak, the Orks fell to the Knights Seraphic, who returned in triumph to Ciasus. At full strength and hardened by battle, the Chapter was by any measure ready to serve the Emperor, and so Atonius confessed to Karnak the terrible secret of the Dark Angels - the tale of the Fallen and of the Unforgiven's sacred duty to force their repentance.

Shortly after the secret was made known to Karnak, the Knights Seraphic were engaged in conflict against the piratical Dark Eldar. In the middle of the campaign, Atonius received a communiqué from the Dark Angels detailing the location of one of the Fallen in a nearby system. Reminded of his duty to the Dark Angels, Karnak reluctantly ordered the redeployment of his forces. However, upon arrival Karnak discovered that the information was false, there was no Fallen. The planet they had been defending was soon overrun by the Dark Eldar, and the civilian population slaughtered. Having passed this final test, Atonius was satisfied that Karnak would be able to lead on his own, and departed for the Dark Angels with his veteran cadre. Karnak was left on Ciasus, deeply troubled by the recent events.

Redemption
The Redeemed
Though none but the Chapter’s Inner Circle know of this secret, the practise of allowing repentant Fallen to take up arms is highly controversial within the Chapter. Unfortunately, the Chapter’s judgement is not infallible, and some of the Redeemed have tried to turn on the Chapter, only to be prevented by the skilled Redemptor Captains. These situations often cause tensions between those in the Inner Circle who value the Redeemed’s contribution and those who do not trust them. Though the Chapter’s willingness to forgive and incorporate lost brothers is considered commendable by some, it is also risky. If the Unforgiven or the Imperium discovers this secret, the Knights Seraphic would face certain extinction. Therefore, the secrecy of the Redeemed is vital to the survival of the Chapter.
After Atonius had left, Karnak remained cloistered in his chambers for weeks, neither eating nor sleeping. Here he pondered the mission of his Chapter. Atonius had told Karnak that the Knights Seraphic were meant to be an extension of the Dark Angels, pursuing redemption for all the Unforgiven by hunting down the Fallen. Although he and his brethren had not committed this crime, Karnak was well aware of the blood of the Legion flowing through his veins, and knew that this duty could not be cast aside. But while a squire of the Knights of Sieraph, Karnak had been taught to abide by the most important duty of all: a knight must defend the people from danger, even if he gives up his life to do so. Torn between these two duties, Karnak remained in his tower and was not seen until a month later.

When he emerged, Karnak called together his Inner Circle, and told them of his meditations. The Knights Seraphic were torn by twin duties - one to their heritage and their brethren, the other to the people of the Imperium. Forsaking either was impossible, and could only damn them further in the eyes of the Emperor - the guilt of Caliban already stained their souls, but so would forsaking their duties to pursue a fraternal vendetta. But no man could serve two masters - and Space Marines are still men, for all that they are heroes.

So Karnak split the Chapter. Drawing on the Deathwing and Ravenwing of the Dark Angels, he formed two independent formations within the Chapter, calling them Redemption Fleets. Formed from the first and second companies, and lead by the newly honoured Redemptor Captains, these fleets would react to the presence of the Fallen, while the main body of the Chapter devoted itself to its primary purpose and duty - the protection of the Imperium of Mankind. To the outside world, the Redemptor Fleets would seem nothing more than quick-response formations, but to the Knights Seraphic they would be a hope for salvation.

Over the millenia many Fallen have been hunted down by the Redemptor Fleets of the Knights Seraphic. Some have died screaming, but others have repented. Those few who repent face a Redemptor Champion in single combat, to purify their souls in battle. The even fewer who win such fights take the place and name of their slain opponent. They receive one more chance to die for the Emperor, one more chance to be an Angel of Death, and one more chance to redeem themselves from the damnation that all Dark Angels face.

Homeworld
Ciasus is a feudal world of rolling plains and forests divided into separate city states, each surrounded by smaller townships and agricultural land. Each of these states maintains its own army, supplemented by the Knightly Orders. Relations between states are complex, and only when under external threat can the cities be relied upon to cooperate.

Within each state there exists a rigid caste system. Nobility rule over small estates, with families of farmers, blacksmiths and more taking their place beneath them, seeing to their needs. Few people question this system; instead it is seen as duty to perform their best according to their standing. Loyalty to one’s state and personal honour is held in high regard, which proved attractive to the fledgling Chapter.

The Knightly Orders of Ciasus are the planet's most prominent defenders. Though originally they were dedicated to the defence of the states which founded them, many have grown to be more powerful and important than the cities they are sworn to protect. Different orders have their own methods of recruiting - some induct only from the nobility, others hold trials to induct the strongest youths, and others have more esoteric selection methods which make little sense to outsiders. The results are the same, however, with each Knightly Order training and producing some of the best warriors on the planet. Once a youth becomes a knight, his life is dedicated to the pursuit of his personal honour and the service of his Order and his city.

After the Ork Empire was destroyed by the Knights Seraphic, the Knightly Orders remained, and continued to feud among each other. The Knights Seraphic allowed this to happen, so that the warriors created on Ciasus would be strong enough to join the Astartes. Once per decade the Chapter hold a series of trials in the planet’s capital Caliphus for potential aspirants, taking only the best so that the future of the Chapter can be ensured.

The Knights Seraphic do not intervene in the affairs of Ciasus unless the planet's safety is in question, preferring to have the people learn from their own mistakes. The Chapter's attitudes have over time been influenced by the knightly orders which provide their recruits, adopting many aspects of the various orders' philosophies. Most notable has been a growing emphasis on honour and duty.

Organisation
The Inner Circle
Despite their disdain for the Hunt and for the Dark Angels' shroud of secrecy, the Knights Seraphic also have their own Inner Circle. This is in part due to honouring their progenitor Chapter, and also to prevent their own warriors being distracted by the knowledge of the Fallen. Therefore, only the warriors of the Redemption Fleets and the Chapter command staff know of this terrible secret. However, there have been petitions through the years to cast off these shackles of secrecy, sharing the information with the rest of the Chapter, but such requests have been denied in order to preserve the integrity of the Knights Seraphic.
The Knights Seraphic are generally a Codex Chapter. The notable exception to this are their Redemption Fleets, created for the Hunt. Each Redemption Fleet contains a full Company of Veterans- equipped similarly to the Eighth Company and the Dark Angels' Deathwing, though with only a few dozen suits of Terminator armour. Each Fleet consists of one or two Strike Cruisers and they are referred to as the First Fleet and the Second Fleet. Their command is given over individually to the First and Second Captains. Known as Redemptor Captains or simply ‘Redemptors’, they are considered equals in the Chapter. Though their primary goal is the capture of the Fallen, the Redemption Fleets can be and are deployed alongside the Battle Companies to provide support and the benefit of their experience.

A small group of the First Company do know of the Hunt, but have made their choice to continue fighting the enemies of the Imperium alongside their less informed brethren. They are spread out among the Battle Companies offering their experience alongside the other Marines.

It should be noted that as the Captain of the First Company is often removed from the Chapter, the honorific title of ‘First Captain’ does not belong to him, but rather the foremost Captain of the Battle Companies, often the Third Company Captain. Despite this the numbering of the Battle Companies starts at three, as the two Redemption Fleets are considered to be the first two Companies.

Combat Doctrine
The Knights Seraphic largely fight according to the dictates of the Codex Astartes, with the only notable divergence the battle style of the Redemption Fleets, which utilise power armoured veterans as infiltrators to seek out the enemy's weak points. Once the enemy's weaknesses are fully documented, these squads will set up a perimeter, and call down reinforcements in the form of more veterans from the Second Company and Terminator-armoured veterans from the First Company. These combined forces then proceed to crush the enemy, capturing any Fallen if they are present. Due to the flexible nature of the Redemption Fleets, these tactics can be used alongside other Companies in the Chapter, often tearing out the heart of the enemy’s army, leading them to disarray.

Beliefs
Like all Astartes, the Knights Seraphic view and venerate the Emperor as an extraordinary and powerful man. They also venerate Lion El’Jonson, their Primarch and first leader of the Dark Angels for his excellent leadership and strategic skills.

The people of Ciasus have also taught the Knights Seraphic about honour, and it has become an important part of the Chapter. All the decisions made by the Chapter are based on what they are duty bound to do, protecting the people of the Imperium. For a Knight of the Chapter, honour is one of the most important parts of their daily life, but personal honour must not be placed before the honour of the Chapter. Therefore, the Chapter frowns upon selfish acts of heroism that endanger or prove detrimental to the Chapter.

Furthermore, the Knights Seraphic view their duty to the Lion and the Unforgiven equal to their duty to the Imperium as a whole. The Knights Seraphic are true knights in that they will not allow the people to suffer while they still live. They believe that while past failures must be atoned for, they shouldn’t compromise their duty to others to do so. Such actions would only compound their earlier failures. Therefore, they believe that redemption will not come from the Fallen, but rather through duty to the Imperium. This explains why they let those Fallen who confess a chance to live and serve once more. Through their actions protecting the Imperium they may be forgiven by the Emperor upon their death.

Geneseed
The Knights Seraphic are descended from the Primarch Lion El’Jonson, and so share the same geneseed as the Dark Angels and other Unforgiven Chapters. They are aware of this link to the Lion, and so hold him as the greatest Primarch to have lived due to his tactical genius, matched by none other save the Emperor. The Lion was also a knight once, and sought to protect his people from the monsters of Caliban. The Knights know this and try to emulate his noble example. Like all Dark Angel Chapters their geneseed is still pure, with no degradation.

Author and Acknowledgements
DarkGuard, previously a wanderer of WH40K armies has found a home with his DIY Space Marines, the Knights Seraphic. This article was made to provide background and character to a Chapter that once only had a colour scheme. Special thanks goes to Octavulg, Apothete, Grey Hunter Ydalir, Ace Debonair and all others who have helped, contributed or just taken the time to read this IA.
Battle Cry
The battle-cry of the Knights Seraphic is older even than the Knightly Order its use was inherited from. "Non nobis sed patriae" has been the last thing to echo in the ears of many of the Chapter's foes. The cry roughly translates as "Not for ourselves, but for our charges," and well reflects the Chapter's dedication to their duty and the people who represent it.

Edited by DarkGuard, 31 October 2010 - 05:13 PM.

IA: Knights Seraphic - Sons of the Lion, Condemners of the Hunt, Knights of the Imperium.
Seraph's Wings - WIP, short story of the Knights Seraphic
Knights Seraphic special characters
Codex: Space Marines 101 - a basic guide to using Codex: Space Marines
Enemies 101 - a basic guide for fighting the armies of WH40K, by Shadowstalker Grim
Sternguard: a Tactical Analysis - a comprehensive guide on using Sternguard Veteran squads in C:SM

#2
Ace Debonair

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That's a good story you have there.

I'm not so clear on all the Dark Angels history, though, so I might not be the best judge.

Also having all those sentences telling us all about exactly what Anotnius told Karnak is a bit over the top. You probably only need to say how he told him all about the Fallen and the responsiblities of the Dark Angels and the successor chapters.

Otherwise, that seems pretty cool. :whistling:

#3
DarkGuard

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Hi and thanks for reading.

I may agree with you about the fact that the explaination about the Fallen is probably over the top, although it is there to quickly explain the betrayal of the Fallen for those who aren't too familiar with that piece of history.

However, I do feel that I may have a bit of long read there, so chances are if it isn't entirely needed I'll take it out when I post the 2nd draft.

Thanks, and I'm glad you enjoyed it.

EDIT: taken out long-winded part about Fallen that Ace Debonair pointed out.

Edited by DarkGuard, 31 July 2009 - 10:12 AM.

IA: Knights Seraphic - Sons of the Lion, Condemners of the Hunt, Knights of the Imperium.
Seraph's Wings - WIP, short story of the Knights Seraphic
Knights Seraphic special characters
Codex: Space Marines 101 - a basic guide to using Codex: Space Marines
Enemies 101 - a basic guide for fighting the armies of WH40K, by Shadowstalker Grim
Sternguard: a Tactical Analysis - a comprehensive guide on using Sternguard Veteran squads in C:SM

#4
DarkGuard

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Is there anymore constructive criticism on this DIY Chapter as it stands? Or should I be able to finish it off without worrying about it?
IA: Knights Seraphic - Sons of the Lion, Condemners of the Hunt, Knights of the Imperium.
Seraph's Wings - WIP, short story of the Knights Seraphic
Knights Seraphic special characters
Codex: Space Marines 101 - a basic guide to using Codex: Space Marines
Enemies 101 - a basic guide for fighting the armies of WH40K, by Shadowstalker Grim
Sternguard: a Tactical Analysis - a comprehensive guide on using Sternguard Veteran squads in C:SM

#5
DarkGuard

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Bump and update.

I have completed the Beliefs section in the IA article in addition to completing the Battle Cry section.

I hope you all enjoy this article, and I await any suggestions. ;)
IA: Knights Seraphic - Sons of the Lion, Condemners of the Hunt, Knights of the Imperium.
Seraph's Wings - WIP, short story of the Knights Seraphic
Knights Seraphic special characters
Codex: Space Marines 101 - a basic guide to using Codex: Space Marines
Enemies 101 - a basic guide for fighting the armies of WH40K, by Shadowstalker Grim
Sternguard: a Tactical Analysis - a comprehensive guide on using Sternguard Veteran squads in C:SM

#6
ChaplainMathreyn

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Just a quick question: Is it pronounced Seraph (Like 'Sarah') or Sieraph (Like 'Sierra')?

Chapter Master Karnak decreed that the Chapter’s first act would be to eradicate the greenskin threat that had so long plagued the homeworld.


It seems like the First paragraph is abit choppy. "Hey guys, new Chapter". Dark Angels arrive, go "Yo", train them and they plop on a planet. Dark Angels say "See ya", except for Atonius. Then some uppity warrior becomes Chapter Master who renames the whole dang Chapter...

Why were the Orks there? How did the Orks get there? Maybe emphasize the Knights of Sieraph contstantly battling the Orks on their homeworld, BEFORE the new Chapter arrives (Maybe add some "Oh no last stands" for drama, too.).

I wish I knew more about Dark Angels practices... But the First Chapter Master is told ALL about the betrayal?... Ouch. I always imagined that it is Pretty serious. Maybe Alude to Atonius mentioning something about "The Fallen"... Think about it This way: If You were a veteran, would You choose to tell some new person Your darkest secrets?...

You probably don't need to state which Company was where, and which moved... I really don't need to know where 3rd Company's line of march. Just Why it's going there and what happens before and after it gets there.

Nice! Great way to let the Fallen escape. Har har har! I like! :D

The last paragraph is pretty cool. You should just say "Handpicked veterans" or "those filled with righteous zeal to destroy the Fallen". I don't need to know Who does it, just why and what happens. I like the "Redepmtion Fleets" thing. I take it: Small forces are Always scouring the Galaxy, or only when there's a tip-off?, while the Rest of the Chapter battles on Imperium worlds. Remember, the Secret is pretty serious (The Dark Angels attack and Kill Other Marines to hide it), so these scouring forces are going to have to be sneaky, sneaksters.

Nice Origins, by the way! :lol:

See... The thing that gets me is you're going to have a big proportion of your veterans going off to hunt for Fallen, leaving regular Brothers to do the heavy battle?... I mean, if 1 of your Veterans gets Killed, you're out of a very valuable asset to your Chapter. Have you thought about just using groups of handpicked Marines from ALL the Companies, led by a trusted Veteran, of course. They're never really told the Exact truth of what they're going after... "A Chaotic taint" "A terrible, plague on humanity", etc etc, but they're never actually Lied to, either. Not saying "it sucks", but throwing out some food for your thoughts (I like the concept of the mini-fleets very much).

Other than that, nice Organization and Beliefs B)

What about a cry and respond Battle cry?
A Chaplain can yell, "Do you fight for yourselves!?" or, something like that.
And the Marines could yell, "We fight for the Lion", "We Fight for the Emperor" or, "We fight for the Knighthood", or something like that?

Nice IA, by the way. Good foundation from what I can see.

Peace! B)
No fear. No pity. No remorse.

#7
DarkGuard

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Just a quick question: Is it pronounced Seraph (Like 'Sarah') or Sieraph (Like 'Sierra')?


Thanks for the feedback. As for the first questions, it's pronounced SIeraph, as in Simon.

It seems like the First paragraph is abit choppy. "Hey guys, new Chapter". Dark Angels arrive, go "Yo", train them and they plop on a planet. Dark Angels say "See ya", except for Atonius. Then some uppity warrior becomes Chapter Master who renames the whole dang Chapter...


I will admit that I'm not the best writer around, and so I'm still learning as it goes along. I will review the first part and try and make it flow as well as I can.

Why were the Orks there? How did the Orks get there? Maybe emphasize the Knights of Sieraph contstantly battling the Orks on their homeworld, BEFORE the new Chapter arrives (Maybe add some "Oh no last stands" for drama, too.).


As for the Orks, well the Orks are there because they were there. From what I understand their menace is found everywhere. However, you raise a brilliant point about having the Knights of Sieraph battling the Orks. The new Chapter then arrives, and lands first in that area, thus linking the Knights of Sieraph to the new Chapter forever. The other Knightly Orders disagree, and then after the new Chapter eradicates the Ork homeworld the rest of the Knightly Orders finally accept them.

I wish I knew more about Dark Angels practices... But the First Chapter Master is told ALL about the betrayal?... Ouch. I always imagined that it is Pretty serious. Maybe Alude to Atonius mentioning something about "The Fallen"... Think about it This way: If You were a veteran, would You choose to tell some new person Your darkest secrets?...


I was under the impression that each Dark Angel Successor had their own Inner Circle who knew about the Fallen. Of course the new Chapter Master wouldn't be told about Luther's existence, only Azrael knows about that. Perhaps as the Chapter is being built, and when it takes down the Orks Atonius tells Karnak about the Fallen, as he sees fit. So therefore he tells him other time, perhaps telling him the full truth when the Fallen are detected in system.

You probably don't need to state which Company was where, and which moved... I really don't need to know where 3rd Company's line of march. Just Why it's going there and what happens before and after it gets there.


Noted, I was just trying to give the 3rd Company a tiny bit of significance as that is the Company I play on table.

Nice! Great way to let the Fallen escape. Har har har! I like! cool


Why thank you. I needed something to demonstrate the Chapter's dual loyalties, and this seemed to be on of the best ways. They got him later though.

The last paragraph is pretty cool. You should just say "Handpicked veterans" or "those filled with righteous zeal to destroy the Fallen". I don't need to know Who does it, just why and what happens. I like the "Redepmtion Fleets" thing. I take it: Small forces are Always scouring the Galaxy, or only when there's a tip-off?, while the Rest of the Chapter battles on Imperium worlds. Remember, the Secret is pretty serious (The Dark Angels attack and Kill Other Marines to hide it), so these scouring forces are going to have to be sneaky, sneaksters.


Traditionally the 1st and 2nd Companies (Deathwing and Ravenwing) have been the ones to hunt the Fallen, and these are both veteran Companies in an Unforgiven force, so it is basically the same thing, although yours sounds a little better. The Redemption Fleets will really only act on a tip off, otherwise they will stay in reserve and used when needed. The idea was that this was a force which the Chapter should be able to fight without if they had to suddenly leave a warzone, rather than withdrawing all units and loosing that battle.

Thank you again, I have a lot of people to thank for that, namely Apothete who helped with the idea. These Fleets are sneaky, with the Frigates getting near a planet stealthily and inserting their Veteran's into the area with great stealth as well.

See... The thing that gets me is you're going to have a big proportion of your veterans going off to hunt for Fallen, leaving regular Brothers to do the heavy battle?... I mean, if 1 of your Veterans gets Killed, you're out of a very valuable asset to your Chapter. Have you thought about just using groups of handpicked Marines from ALL the Companies, led by a trusted Veteran, of course. They're never really told the Exact truth of what they're going after... "A Chaotic taint" "A terrible, plague on humanity", etc etc, but they're never actually Lied to, either. Not saying "it sucks", but throwing out some food for your thoughts (I like the concept of the mini-fleets very much).


The Chapter sees it that those who are inducted into the Inner Circle know some of the Truth, and that if they are going to take down the Fallen then they need to know everything. The standard Marines don't know such things, and so it is better that they take to the frontline against the more common enemies of the Imperium. However, there will be some Veterans from the 1st Company around, and the Redemption Fleets when not scouring an area are held in reserve and will be used in difficult warzone to bolster the Battle Companies.

What about a cry and respond Battle cry?
A Chaplain can yell, "Do you fight for yourselves!?" or, something like that.
And the Marines could yell, "We fight for the Lion", "We Fight for the Emperor" or, "We fight for the Knighthood", or something like that?


Sounds good, although I'm quite attached to my own. It could be another battle cry they use, I did mention they have a few of them after all.

Thanks for reading this ChaplainMathreyn, you have given me a lot to think about. I'll implement any changes into my master copy when I'm able to (a bit busy at the moment), and then post them back up here.

Thank you again, and glad you enjoyed it.
IA: Knights Seraphic - Sons of the Lion, Condemners of the Hunt, Knights of the Imperium.
Seraph's Wings - WIP, short story of the Knights Seraphic
Knights Seraphic special characters
Codex: Space Marines 101 - a basic guide to using Codex: Space Marines
Enemies 101 - a basic guide for fighting the armies of WH40K, by Shadowstalker Grim
Sternguard: a Tactical Analysis - a comprehensive guide on using Sternguard Veteran squads in C:SM

#8
DarkGuard

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Ok then, finally got round to the 3rd draft, and largely I have just changed the Origins section with some of the ideas that came about through ChaplainMathreyn's critique.

Any more comments on the IA article? Or am I finally there?
IA: Knights Seraphic - Sons of the Lion, Condemners of the Hunt, Knights of the Imperium.
Seraph's Wings - WIP, short story of the Knights Seraphic
Knights Seraphic special characters
Codex: Space Marines 101 - a basic guide to using Codex: Space Marines
Enemies 101 - a basic guide for fighting the armies of WH40K, by Shadowstalker Grim
Sternguard: a Tactical Analysis - a comprehensive guide on using Sternguard Veteran squads in C:SM

#9
Ace Debonair

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Well, I can only really spot a couple of things, and they aren't major. :lol:

There's a line that talks about how the Knights of Sieraph "never shirked their responsibility while it was theirs to carry."
I'd change the first 'their' to 'a'. It flows better. That's just personal preference.

Also... the Orks on Ciasus don't have advanced technology... but came from another planet nearby?
Have I got that right?

Actually, that one might be fairly major. :P
Anyway. Keep up the good work. :mellow:

#10
DarkGuard

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Well, I can only really spot a couple of things, and they aren't major. :P

There's a line that talks about how the Knights of Sieraph "never shirked their responsibility while it was theirs to carry."
I'd change the first 'their' to 'a'. It flows better. That's just personal preference.

Also... the Orks on Ciasus don't have advanced technology... but came from another planet nearby?
Have I got that right?

Actually, that one might be fairly major. :P
Anyway. Keep up the good work. :lol:


Thanks again Ace Debonair, I will change that sentence about responsibilty as like you said it flows better.

I don't think I ever mentioned that the Orks on Ciasus aren't advanced. The local human populance aren't too advance, being on the peak of discovering gunpowder technology at the time the Chapter found them. Could you elaborate on that point please if it seems that I did make that implication?

Perhaps having the Orks as part of an empire, being on the edge might be an idea.
IA: Knights Seraphic - Sons of the Lion, Condemners of the Hunt, Knights of the Imperium.
Seraph's Wings - WIP, short story of the Knights Seraphic
Knights Seraphic special characters
Codex: Space Marines 101 - a basic guide to using Codex: Space Marines
Enemies 101 - a basic guide for fighting the armies of WH40K, by Shadowstalker Grim
Sternguard: a Tactical Analysis - a comprehensive guide on using Sternguard Veteran squads in C:SM

#11
Ace Debonair

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You're right, I seem to have confused the issue inside my head.

Way to go, me. :tu:
Methinks I just assumed since your future recruits were low tech the orks would be as well. :D

The empire idea is a nice one, give the Knights some more butt to kick over the centuries.
Good stuff.

#12
Grey Hunter Ydalir

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Like the vast majority of other Space Marine Chapters, the Knights of Sieraph view the Emperor not as a God, but as a most extraordinary man to walk the stars. They show huge respect to his ideals and his deeds, and venerate him not as a God, but as the supreme leader of humanity and as the creator of the Space Marines.


Redundant. If they don't differ from the codex depiction of a chapter then you only really need one line in passing.

Where your chapter is similar to their parent or where they follow the codex is not where you need to elaborate. What makes your chapter different? What is it that makes this chapter unique among the other thousand chapters in the galaxy, not to mention among other Dark Angel successors? These are the things you should concentrate on.

Note that I'm talking about the entire piece, not just the part I quoted. After skimming through what you have it seems you've got too much detail. Your overloading what you have and getting far to much into the nitty-gritty rather than having the sections read as part of an overall piece of work. You need to refine what you have, cut and reword some of what you have.

There is also far too much in Origins, a lot of which can be shuffled around and pruned back. An IA is more like a summary of a chapter. It depicts their quirks, character and where they diverge from the norm. Most tough battles are summarized for the sake of the flow of the overall article. If you are really attached to that particular cool battle, write it up as a separate piece, but don't include a blow-by-blow description of a particular event, even an important one in an IA as a rule, unless it is really short and won't interfere with the piece.

The Octaguide.
The Thousand Marine Myth.

On the scale mismatch of bolts and bolters by Coldfyre

Commissar Molotov's Castigators - Essential reading for IA Creation.

"...I have seen the birth of this world and I have seen its death. I walked with the first men and I shared a beer with the last. For me everyone is both old and young at the same time as a million lifetimes pass before my eyes and humanity is like the grains of sand in the desert, each breath to me a sigh in the vast never-ending vacumn of space."
-Silver Phoenix


#13
DarkGuard

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No worries Ace Debonair, but thanks for the support on the Empire idea.

Like the vast majority of other Space Marine Chapters, the Knights of Sieraph view the Emperor not as a God, but as a most extraordinary man to walk the stars. They show huge respect to his ideals and his deeds, and venerate him not as a God, but as the supreme leader of humanity and as the creator of the Space Marines.


Redundant. If they don't differ from the codex depiction of a chapter then you only really need one line in passing.

Where your chapter is similar to their parent or where they follow the codex is not where you need to elaborate. What makes your chapter different? What is it that makes this chapter unique among the other thousand chapters in the galaxy, not to mention among other Dark Angel successors? These are the things you should concentrate on.

Note that I'm talking about the entire piece, not just the part I quoted. After skimming through what you have it seems you've got too much detail. Your overloading what you have and getting far to much into the nitty-gritty rather than having the sections read as part of an overall piece of work. You need to refine what you have, cut and reword some of what you have.

There is also far too much in Origins, a lot of which can be shuffled around and pruned back. An IA is more like a summary of a chapter. It depicts their quirks, character and where they diverge from the norm. Most tough battles are summarized for the sake of the flow of the overall article. If you are really attached to that particular cool battle, write it up as a separate piece, but don't include a blow-by-blow description of a particular event, even an important one in an IA as a rule, unless it is really short and won't interfere with the piece.


Thank you very much for that reply Grey Hunter Ydalir. I was worried that it might be too long. I will have to go into a bit of a re-work over the next couple of days. You've raised some good points, and I think you're right about me needing to cut it and re-write it a bit.

I'll try and do that as soon as I can, and I'll post it when it's finished.
IA: Knights Seraphic - Sons of the Lion, Condemners of the Hunt, Knights of the Imperium.
Seraph's Wings - WIP, short story of the Knights Seraphic
Knights Seraphic special characters
Codex: Space Marines 101 - a basic guide to using Codex: Space Marines
Enemies 101 - a basic guide for fighting the armies of WH40K, by Shadowstalker Grim
Sternguard: a Tactical Analysis - a comprehensive guide on using Sternguard Veteran squads in C:SM

#14
DarkGuard

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Finished review of Chapter IA and re-write. In particular the Origins and Homeworld have been re-written, being shorter (especially the Origins), while the other areas have been reviewed, with some parts being re-written. Please tell me what you think.
IA: Knights Seraphic - Sons of the Lion, Condemners of the Hunt, Knights of the Imperium.
Seraph's Wings - WIP, short story of the Knights Seraphic
Knights Seraphic special characters
Codex: Space Marines 101 - a basic guide to using Codex: Space Marines
Enemies 101 - a basic guide for fighting the armies of WH40K, by Shadowstalker Grim
Sternguard: a Tactical Analysis - a comprehensive guide on using Sternguard Veteran squads in C:SM

#15
DarkGuard

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No comments on the latest draft? Or should I consider nearly complete for all intents and purposes? (although I think an IA will never be fully complete).
IA: Knights Seraphic - Sons of the Lion, Condemners of the Hunt, Knights of the Imperium.
Seraph's Wings - WIP, short story of the Knights Seraphic
Knights Seraphic special characters
Codex: Space Marines 101 - a basic guide to using Codex: Space Marines
Enemies 101 - a basic guide for fighting the armies of WH40K, by Shadowstalker Grim
Sternguard: a Tactical Analysis - a comprehensive guide on using Sternguard Veteran squads in C:SM

#16
Grey Hunter Ydalir

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No comments on the latest draft? Or should I consider nearly complete for all intents and purposes?


I wouldn't do that. It's merely a lot of text for people to chew through so you'll have to either give people time to chew through some or all of it, or you can PM some people, or post on other peoples IA's and ask for help with your own. People tend to be fairly reciprocal in Liber.

Perhaps add a bit of colour and spacing to it with some BBCode headers.

(although I think an IA will never be fully complete).


Your pretty much on the money there.

The Octaguide.
The Thousand Marine Myth.

On the scale mismatch of bolts and bolters by Coldfyre

Commissar Molotov's Castigators - Essential reading for IA Creation.

"...I have seen the birth of this world and I have seen its death. I walked with the first men and I shared a beer with the last. For me everyone is both old and young at the same time as a million lifetimes pass before my eyes and humanity is like the grains of sand in the desert, each breath to me a sigh in the vast never-ending vacumn of space."
-Silver Phoenix


#17
DarkGuard

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No comments on the latest draft? Or should I consider nearly complete for all intents and purposes?


I wouldn't do that. It's merely a lot of text for people to chew through so you'll have to either give people time to chew through some or all of it, or you can PM some people, or post on other peoples IA's and ask for help with your own. People tend to be fairly reciprocal in Liber.

Perhaps add a bit of colour and spacing to it with some BBCode headers.


OK then, sorry for the impatience. I'll keep that in mind.

I'll get to work on the headers.

Thanks again.
IA: Knights Seraphic - Sons of the Lion, Condemners of the Hunt, Knights of the Imperium.
Seraph's Wings - WIP, short story of the Knights Seraphic
Knights Seraphic special characters
Codex: Space Marines 101 - a basic guide to using Codex: Space Marines
Enemies 101 - a basic guide for fighting the armies of WH40K, by Shadowstalker Grim
Sternguard: a Tactical Analysis - a comprehensive guide on using Sternguard Veteran squads in C:SM

#18
Dazzo

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What do they look like, whats their colour scheme, chapter symbol?
Hope is the denial of reality-Raistlin

The dreams of youth are the regrets of maturity-Legend

Damn right-Dazzo

My colour scheme blog

#19
DarkGuard

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Can't believe I forgot that! Thanks Dazzo, just implementing that now.

The colour scheme may sound a little weird and frustrating, but thats the best way I can describe their main colour. As for the shoulder rims, that's the way I painted them. It makes sense, eventually, I hope.

Also, I'm writing up an example battle that the Knights of Sieraph took part in. Just contemplating where to put it. It is unlikely to fit into a small box, and also it has a bearing on the current state of the Chapter eg numbers left. Any ideas on the best place to put this. Will write it up as soon as I can and place it in the same article.
IA: Knights Seraphic - Sons of the Lion, Condemners of the Hunt, Knights of the Imperium.
Seraph's Wings - WIP, short story of the Knights Seraphic
Knights Seraphic special characters
Codex: Space Marines 101 - a basic guide to using Codex: Space Marines
Enemies 101 - a basic guide for fighting the armies of WH40K, by Shadowstalker Grim
Sternguard: a Tactical Analysis - a comprehensive guide on using Sternguard Veteran squads in C:SM

#20
DarkGuard

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OK then, first picture of the Knights of Sieraph is up!!!! Huge thanks to Dazzo here in helping me set up the gallery and album I needed to upload the picture. I hope this helps with visuals and there may be one or two more to follow. Now onto writing up this battle.

Of course, please keep up the C+C, all of it is appreciated.
IA: Knights Seraphic - Sons of the Lion, Condemners of the Hunt, Knights of the Imperium.
Seraph's Wings - WIP, short story of the Knights Seraphic
Knights Seraphic special characters
Codex: Space Marines 101 - a basic guide to using Codex: Space Marines
Enemies 101 - a basic guide for fighting the armies of WH40K, by Shadowstalker Grim
Sternguard: a Tactical Analysis - a comprehensive guide on using Sternguard Veteran squads in C:SM

#21
DarkGuard

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UPDATE: Recent engagment of the Chapter vs Tyranids included. The purpose of this part is to try and highlight the dual responsibilites of the Chapter in Hunting the Fallen and protecting the Imperium.

UPDATE: sidebar on Council of Three, an inlook into Chapter relations in itself.

UPDATE: siderbar on 3rd Captain Angrod Carnesir (the Captain I field in my armies) added.

Please let me know what you think and how it may be improved, and whether it is even needed.

Thanks in advance.

I'm close to announcing this finished in my eyes. So please, let me know what you think.

Edited by DarkGuard, 04 September 2009 - 11:04 AM.

IA: Knights Seraphic - Sons of the Lion, Condemners of the Hunt, Knights of the Imperium.
Seraph's Wings - WIP, short story of the Knights Seraphic
Knights Seraphic special characters
Codex: Space Marines 101 - a basic guide to using Codex: Space Marines
Enemies 101 - a basic guide for fighting the armies of WH40K, by Shadowstalker Grim
Sternguard: a Tactical Analysis - a comprehensive guide on using Sternguard Veteran squads in C:SM

#22
Apothete

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Well, let's see if I can think straight long enough to provide meaningful commentary...

There are multiple places where I can highlight either jarring sentence structure, repetitive word choice, or other stylistic issues that will act as roadbumps in what could be a smoothly-laid literary course. I'd suggest that you go back over the entire article and read it out loud so that you can see just how often you re-use certain words and phrases, especialy since the opening paragraphs are already displaying this tendency.

To whit:

The Knights of Sieraph were formed during the 7th Founding, towards the end of the 32nd Millennium. The Founding was met with great jubilation, as all Foundings are, with more Space Marines being made available to protect the Imperium. One of the Chapters being Founded used the Dark Angel’s geneseed, and so the Dark Angels Chapter provided a cadre of Veterans, lead by Interrogator-Chaplain Atonius to train the new Marines. At first the new Chapter recruited from a number of planets in nearby systems. One of these planets was called Ciasus. At the time a feudal planet containing many rival Knightly Orders (not unlike Caliban). When the new Chapter came across this world, one of the Knightly Orders, known as the Knights of Sieraph, offered them many of their most promising young knights. The Chapter took them, and most of them were successful in becoming Scouts, including a young man named Auriel Karnak.


You hammer on certain notes over and over again, such as the use of "Founding" in the first few sentances, variants on "knight" in latter ones, and "planet" around the middle. The elements of the thought should flow together and lead the reader on into the next point with as little disruption as possible, unless the discord is being used to provide some kind of emphasis. Also, you would benefit from paring down the things that are going to be commonplace knowledge, like the celebration and pomp involved in the creation of a Chapter.

My quick and dirty rewrite of your opening paragraph is below, illustrating what I'm talking about:

The Knights of Sieraph were brought into being during the Seventh Founding in the latter half of the 32nd Millenium, drawn from the venerable gene-stock of the Dark Angels and dedicated to the pursuit of the Imperium's foes. At the heart of the training cadre, Interrogator-Chaplain Atonius brought with him veterans of his former Chapter and took the fledgling neophytes to the stars to seek those worthy to become their Brothers. Multiple planets were scoured for candidates, most notably the feudal world of Ciasus, where the children of the chivalric Knights of Sieraph proved to be incredibly suitable for the Interrogator-Chaplain's purposes. Foremost amongst the Scouts to emerge from this time was the now-legendary Auriel Karnak, who's acumen and bravery would earn the honor of becoming the first Chapter Master.



The passages are roughly the same length but the second version avoids the issues that plague the entire writeup. See what I'm saying?

When they finally emerged they named Auriel Karnak as Chapter Master. Karnak named the new Chapter the Knights of Sieraph, to tie the Chapter to the planet and the Knightly Order forever, and named Ciasus as the Chapter’s homeworld.


Why?

I understand that you want a unifying figure for the Chapter to rally around, but you haven't given us any qualifications yet that would show a basis for this decision. He killed a dangerous opponent in single combat, but Marines do that on a regular basis. What makes Karnak a leader fit to take command? What does Atonis see in him, devotionally and spiritually? Where is the display of tactical and orgainzational brilliance that is so necessary in a man who would command a force like the Astartes?

When they finally emerged they named Auriel Karnak as Chapter Master. Karnak named the new Chapter the Knights of Sieraph, to tie the Chapter to the planet and the Knightly Order forever, and named Ciasus as the Chapter’s homeworld.


They gave their youth to be recruited, after which they were suspicious and had to be convinced to offer their youth to be recruited? Am I missing something here?

Atonius remained to tell Karnak of the Fallen and help him construct his own Inner Circle when the time was right, and this is what happened.


Would the veterans not likely be Deathwing or Ravenwing themselves and thus already party to this secret? As such, why would the Dark Angels not want to leave them in place so that they could ensure the confomity of their progeny?

Also, this is a perfect example of the kind of stylistic issue I was referring to.

The homeworld of the Knights of Sieraph is called Ciasus. Ciasus largely consists of large rolling plains, with occasional forests. Urban areas are normally found in the plains. There is a large mountain range located in the centre of the northern continent. Ciasus is located in the Segmentum Tempestus.


This is curt, choppy, and unfocused.

There's definitely more to go over, but my eyes are starting to cross... I'll come back later.
You just had to look around you, Grey Knight, and you'd have seen it. What is Chaos? Suffering, you might say. Oppression. Deceit. But could not all of these things be said of your Imperium?
-Ghargatuloth, Prince of a Thousand Faces, Grey Knights.

The Exonerators Index Astartes WIP + The Inscrutable Index Traitoris WIP + The Black Friars Index Astartes WIP


#23
DarkGuard

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Thank you Apothete, you once again make some good points, and you are right the phrasing is bad. I'll be looking over this as soon as I can. I'm moving house soon, so actually editing will be down for next week and a bit, but I will be trying my best to get on top of it.

Your re-written piece of my work is a lot better, and I will be trying my hardest to emulate a fluid writing style such as that without copying it.

Thank you for the advise, and I'll get to work on it as soon as I can.

I'll also fix up the background on Karnak and Atonius' Veterans.
IA: Knights Seraphic - Sons of the Lion, Condemners of the Hunt, Knights of the Imperium.
Seraph's Wings - WIP, short story of the Knights Seraphic
Knights Seraphic special characters
Codex: Space Marines 101 - a basic guide to using Codex: Space Marines
Enemies 101 - a basic guide for fighting the armies of WH40K, by Shadowstalker Grim
Sternguard: a Tactical Analysis - a comprehensive guide on using Sternguard Veteran squads in C:SM

#24
Grey Hunter Ydalir

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First off I'll say overall it looks pretty good. That said, there are a few things I can see right off the bat.

Originally the Knightly Orders were used to protect the states that they owed allegiances to from others, leading to conflicts between these Knightly Orders. When the Ork attacks started these Knightly Orders then became crucial in repelling the Ork invasion. After the Ork Empire that had plagued them so much was destroyed by the Knights of Sieraph, the Knightly Orders remained, instead helping the PDF through supplying troops for them, in addition to helping with the recruitment of the Astartes. There is no longer strife on Ciasus, however, and so the Knightly Orders do not fight, and instead just act as recruitment first for the Astartes, and secondly for the PDF.


Knightly Orders, Knightly Orders Knightly Orders... Knightly Orders. Some serious repetition of one word phrase there. I'd try to retool the paragraph so you don't have to say the same thing over and over quite so many times.

It is worth mentioning the relationship experienced by the Knights of Sieraph and the people of Ciasus. Some have pointed out that the Knights of Sieraph appear more humanitarian than other Chapters,


Honestly I'm not sure what this adds to the chapter at all, it doesn't seem to fit anywhere at all apart from being a personal side-note to make yourself feel better that your marines aren't quite the same as the 'kill-them-all-and-let-the-Emperor-sort-them-out' majority.

It should also be noted that due to the hatred of Orks shared by all people of Ciasus, and by extension the Knights of Sieraph, and the large numbers of Orks located in Segmentum Tempestus the Knights of Sieraph are exceptionally adept at fighting the greenskin scourge.


Especially adept as opposed to any other chapter in the Imperium that must fight the Orks in probably equal measures? Orks are everywhere in large numbers. There are no connected swathes of Imperial territory anywhere, it is only single planets and systems inside what is arrogantly considered to be 'Imperial Territory' as marked out on Imperial Maps, the term is otherwise by-and-large, meaningless. Implying that your chapter is especially adept at anything over any other chapter is not a good thing. Stating that they have more experience than the average chapter at fighting greenskins due to their proliferation in their home sector is better, removing any comparative implication.

Close ranged weaponry such as flamers and meltas are preferred due to the close quarter combats that usually typify such engagements, and heavy weapons that are used are generally anti-hoard weapons such as missile launchers, heavy bolters and plasma cannons. However, the Knights of Sieraph armoury is as varied as any Space Marine Chapter, and so lascannons, plasma guns and other weaponry will be utilized if the situation demands it.


Honestly this feels like filler to bulk up the article where it doesn't need it. You don't need to read this, really as it doesn't detail a predisposition to any particular fighting style or weaponry by the chapter, merely telling us what we already know to be optimal weapons for use against such an enemy.

The fortress of the notorious Fallen Nehemiah,


You might want to change this. Notorious means he would be well known. Having him be a Notorious Fallen might be a mite awkward given the ultra-ridiculusly-secret-angstyness of the dark angels and unforgiven's big secret. Perhaps he was a Fallen, but you shouldn't describe him as being well known for such a fact, I think. It's a bit of a small niggle but it comes off wrong to me.

I also think you should swap around the positioning of the Combat Doctrine and Organization sections. The reason being that you talk about how the different companies function on the battlefield in Combat Doctrine without first establishing who and what they are within the chapter. Remember the reader, you know all this already but the reader doesn't, make sure to have a clear path of logic leading through the article.

You also go into far too much niggling detail in Organisation I have to say. I think you need to draw it back a bit and paint them in broader strokes.

Also, the Knights of Sieraph, like most other Unforgiven Chapters venerate Lion El’Jonson, their Primarch and first leader of the Dark Angels, more than the other Primarch.


I don't understand this. Who else should Dark Angels descendants venerate than the Legions original Primarch? What other primarch could they possibly put in such a position. Also, 'most' of the other unforgiven?

However, it must be emphasized, as it has been mentioned above, that the Knights of Sieraph view their duty to the Lion and the Unforgiven equal to their duty to the Imperium as a whole. The Knights of Sieraph are true knights in that they will not allow the people to suffer while they still draw breath. There have been reports of other Unforgiven Chapters, especially the Angels of Redemption, who have just mysteriously lost an ungoing campaign and redeploying. Such is the might of a single Space Marine that these redeployments have consequences, from an Imperial Commander losing a small portion of his force to an entire city falling and its population being slaughtered in a day.


I have to say that this is not explained well enough in your first part below.

In the middle of wiping out the Green plague, Atonius received a communiqué from the Dark Angels detailing the location of a Fallen in the next system. Atonius urged Karnak to quit the battleand go to catch, or at least prevent the Fallen from escaping. Karnak refused, however, stating that if they did this the people he was honour-bound to protect would be overrun by the Greenskins.


Why would a new chapter master of a new-found chapter refuse a request from their parent chapter so point blank? Sure the population of the world would fall but the whole point of the Dark Angels 'terrible secret' is that they consider it to be a worse fate for it to be discovered than for the stability of the Imperium to be disrupted in places. They are selfish and afraid, they don't want their once-misplaced loyalty to be discovered by any, for their reputation to be tarnished and themselves cast out. It is this fear and desperation that drives them. If the Unforgiven treated the secret so brazenly as to put anyone else's concerns before their own, the entire premise of having such a secret would lose much of it's weight.


I would continue but I'm too tired. I'll get back to you.

The Octaguide.
The Thousand Marine Myth.

On the scale mismatch of bolts and bolters by Coldfyre

Commissar Molotov's Castigators - Essential reading for IA Creation.

"...I have seen the birth of this world and I have seen its death. I walked with the first men and I shared a beer with the last. For me everyone is both old and young at the same time as a million lifetimes pass before my eyes and humanity is like the grains of sand in the desert, each breath to me a sigh in the vast never-ending vacumn of space."
-Silver Phoenix


#25
DarkGuard

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Thanks for taking the time to read it Grey Hunter Ydalir. Like I said to Apothete I'm moving soon, so things are going to become a little harder to update frequently, but I'll try my best before I move.

Knightly Orders, Knightly Orders Knightly Orders... Knightly Orders. Some serious repetition of one word phrase there. I'd try to retool the paragraph so you don't have to say the same thing over and over quite so many times.


This will be fixed along with the other changes suggested by Apothete. I will be the first to admit that I'm not a great writer, but I'll try my hardest to fix this and avoid anymore repetition.

Honestly I'm not sure what this adds to the chapter at all, it doesn't seem to fit anywhere at all apart from being a personal side-note to make yourself feel better that your marines aren't quite the same as the 'kill-them-all-and-let-the-Emperor-sort-them-out' majority.


Agreed, this should be an undercurrent, or something reviewed through actions on the field, which implies this, but not blatently broadcasted.

Especially adept as opposed to any other chapter in the Imperium that must fight the Orks in probably equal measures? Orks are everywhere in large numbers. There are no connected swathes of Imperial territory anywhere, it is only single planets and systems inside what is arrogantly considered to be 'Imperial Territory' as marked out on Imperial Maps, the term is otherwise by-and-large, meaningless. Implying that your chapter is especially adept at anything over any other chapter is not a good thing. Stating that they have more experience than the average chapter at fighting greenskins due to their proliferation in their home sector is better, removing any comparative implication.


You're right here as well, poor phrasing which is making my Chapter seem too good at something. I'll tone it down in the next draft.

Honestly this feels like filler to bulk up the article where it doesn't need it. You don't need to read this, really as it doesn't detail a predisposition to any particular fighting style or weaponry by the chapter, merely telling us what we already know to be optimal weapons for use against such an enemy.


Noted here as well, this will most likely be cut then.

You might want to change this. Notorious means he would be well known. Having him be a Notorious Fallen might be a mite awkward given the ultra-ridiculusly-secret-angstyness of the dark angels and unforgiven's big secret. Perhaps he was a Fallen, but you shouldn't describe him as being well known for such a fact, I think. It's a bit of a small niggle but it comes off wrong to me.

I also think you should swap around the positioning of the Combat Doctrine and Organization sections. The reason being that you talk about how the different companies function on the battlefield in Combat Doctrine without first establishing who and what they are within the chapter. Remember the reader, you know all this already but the reader doesn't, make sure to have a clear path of logic leading through the article.

You also go into far too much niggling detail in Organisation I have to say. I think you need to draw it back a bit and paint them in broader strokes.


This is poor writing on my part. I was trying to imply that Nehemiah was a notorious Chaos Warlord in the area, but only the Unforgiven knew that he was Fallen. However, it would perhaps be better to change the word notorious to something like dangerous, or just state he was a Fallen.

I'll also look into switching those sections as well.

I don't understand this. Who else should Dark Angels descendants venerate than the Legions original Primarch? What other primarch could they possibly put in such a position. Also, 'most' of the other unforgiven?


Most is coming from my old RS essays when we told to never overgeneralise, of course I'd imagine that's not a danger here, unless a Dark Angel Successor has some secret agenda it doesn't want the rest of the Imperium to know about. ;)
But in hindsight yes, this will be changed.

Why would a new chapter master of a new-found chapter refuse a request from their parent chapter so point blank? Sure the population of the world would fall but the whole point of the Dark Angels 'terrible secret' is that they consider it to be a worse fate for it to be discovered than for the stability of the Imperium to be disrupted in places. They are selfish and afraid, they don't want their once-misplaced loyalty to be discovered by any, for their reputation to be tarnished and themselves cast out. It is this fear and desperation that drives them. If the Unforgiven treated the secret so brazenly as to put anyone else's concerns before their own, the entire premise of having such a secret would lose much of it's weight.


What I'm trying to say here is that Karnak is a Knight of the people first, and shameless conspirator second. He considers his main duty to be the protection of the people. He mobilized reserve Companies to comply with the request from the Dark Angels, he just didn't send his already depleted force, the last hope of the citizens, who were closer to the Fallen's location, to the planet until he can be sure of the safety of the citizens when the Imperial Guard reach the planet allowing his Marines to withdraw. It is also meant as a device to drive Karnak into making the decision to make the Redemption Fleets, so this event can be dealt with in the future.

I would continue but I'm too tired. I'll get back to you.


That sounds ominous, but please do, your advice is much appreciated, and thank you again.

Edited by DarkGuard, 15 September 2009 - 06:28 PM.

IA: Knights Seraphic - Sons of the Lion, Condemners of the Hunt, Knights of the Imperium.
Seraph's Wings - WIP, short story of the Knights Seraphic
Knights Seraphic special characters
Codex: Space Marines 101 - a basic guide to using Codex: Space Marines
Enemies 101 - a basic guide for fighting the armies of WH40K, by Shadowstalker Grim
Sternguard: a Tactical Analysis - a comprehensive guide on using Sternguard Veteran squads in C:SM




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