Lord_Caerolion Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Mortarion had always resented the Emperor though, as he believed he cheated in the deal he made on whether Mortarion would join the Crusade or not. Plus, the Death Guard initially only went traitor, only Typhon/Typhus had any intention of worshipping Nurgle. The others were in simply because they hated the Emperor. Myself, I'm not really disappointed in any particular Legion. They all did their roles well, although I would like some more information on some of the Legions, like the Salamanders and Night Lords, as we don't really know what they did during the Heresy. Salamanders in particular need some fleshing out. They took part in the Istvaan Massacre, and then we get no more information on them whatsoever, other than Vulkan opposed the Codex, and vanished at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Dark Angels- for slowing us down :lol:. I think you have that backwards. :lol: Space Wolves- for letting ourselves be so used by horus. Don't beat yourselves up that much. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Dark Angels- for slowing us down :). I think you have that backwards. :D Everyones entitled to their opinions. Space Wolves- for letting ourselves be so used by horus. Don't beat yourselves up that much. ;) I dont, I save it for the thousand sons.... we may have over done it for one punishment, but frankly we probly didnt catch them at half the things they were doing wrong ;). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damael Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 The Death Guard. For having jerks like Typhon & Grulgor as their high ranking captains. I guess there wasn't much potential in their respective companies and Mortarion had to make do with what he had. The Emperor's Children. Eidolon's half anyway, carried away by all the bright lights and pretty sounds. Fulgrim - who trusts a talking sword?? Vespasian's lot were alright though. The Word Bearers... Everything is their fault. The story of Lorgar and his legion's fall to chaos just seems really weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Actually, I should technically include myself in the ranks of those disappointed by the Dark Angels, though in a different way. I mean, those monk robes/surplices are freaking embarassing. If anything, they might be acceptable as part of some sort of formal uniform... but over power armor? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogi Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I hate the Space wolves because of the insane fanboyism they generate (like the responses I'll get), plus the fact that they are lame drunk mutant freaks (yet tolerated why?) who think they are sooo great. In HH World Eaters are better shock troops Iron warriors are better siege troops Luna wolves are the best balanced force.. your emperor thought so. Space wolves are a bunch of drunks who picked on the nerdy primarch magnus. Whats the reason for the arrogance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Caverstein Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 I hate the Space wolves because of the insane fanboyism they generate (like the responses I'll get), plus the fact that they are lame drunk mutant freaks (yet tolerated why?) who think they are sooo great. In HH World Eaters are better shock troops Iron warriors are better siege troops Luna wolves are the best balanced force.. your emperor thought so. Space wolves are a bunch of drunks who picked on the nerdy primarch magnus. Whats the reason for the arrogance? Because the world needs drunken bastards and thay can have 16 STRONG SPACE MARINE ASSAULT SQUADS 16 STRONG¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midgard Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Personally, I'll wait for "A Thousand Sons" and "Prospero Burns" before making any judgement on how disappointing the Wolves are, and how "nerdy" (read: weak) the Thousand Sons were. At least, it is my understanding that the original thread asked about the depiction of the Legions in the HH books as opposed to the pre-existing fluff. Same goes for the Word Bearers. I am not aware of their descent into Chaos being covered in depth in HH books yet, although I do not have all of the books (currently, I am missing "Batte for the Abyss", "Flight of the Einsenstein", "Descent Of Angels", "Fallen Angels", and "Tales of the Heresy") - it seems that by the time any Word Bearers appear in the books, they are already fully in thrall to Chaos. I would absolutely love to see Lorgar and his lot get a novel treatment in the Heresy era, detailing how they fell - given how important their fall is to the overall timeline, I would hope that it is covered in much more detail than "Lorgar worshipped his father, who scorned him, so Lorgar went to join the cult". Until the fall of the Word Bearers is covered, I shall hold off with my judgement of that Legion. As for my answer to the original post, and only in the context of the HH books I have read to date, I would say that the Emperor's Children are by far the most disappointing Legion. Even pre-Laeran, I cannot possibly understand why such a perfectionist Legion and Primarch would tolerate a clearly incompetent Lord Commander such as Eidolon in a position of power, where he essentially screws up any time he is given a task. Of course, when Fulgrim's own attitude is factored in ( as in his interactions with the sculptor, and his organization of the Brotherhood of the Phoenix ), many things become clear... To me, the issue with Eidolon is simply a symptom of a much larger problem with the Legion. Fulgrim sounds to me like one of those XVIIIth-XIXth century generals who are more concerned with the parade appearance of their troops than with their actual fighting capability. He does not appear to listen to advice from others even when he solicits it, and appears to seek opinions and affirmations of sycophants. Additionally, Fulgrim appears to be very rigid in his organizational doctrines - I would presume that had the loyalties of the Primarchs been reversed, he would have been the creator of alternate Codex Astartes in place of Guilliman, except that Fulgrim appears to have been even more "by the book". Ultimately, even before their fall, the Emperor's Children sound like a somewhat inflexible organization, almost certainly rife with nepotism (see how highly unsuitable individuals such as Eidolon and Lucius ended up in positions of power), and fixated on maintaining form over substance - and with a leader who is even more full of himself than is the norm for the Primarchs, who is a control freak of epic proportions, and who keeps on acting in a manner even more infantile than the rest of his brothers, to boot. The only ECs that are sympathetic are Saul Tarvitz (by far), Solomon Demeter (to a far lesser extent - he sounds like a Tarvitz clone to me, the way he was described), and Vespasian (although he does not get much time in the spotlight)... the rest of them sound like a pretty despicable lot that only gets worse as the time progresses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Ok, know who dissapointed me the most-mostest? The Emprah. How can one being so powerful and so (allegedly) wise and (allegedly) benevolent towards mankind not see that trusting its fate in the hands of eighteen of the most manic, psychotic, depressive, violent, paranoid, obsessive mutants is probably a bad idea? And how does it seem smart to trust in them almost the ENTIRE military organization of the entire empire? On top of all that, he fails to teach them why they need to be wary of psykers and sorcery, not to mention the warp, and then has the gall to be surprised when they begin to tap into it. Plus, we never really see anywhere that the Big E was ever surprised by the events of the Heresy. I don't recall any specific scenes where he goes "What? Horus and some of my other sons are rising in open chaotic revolt?! And slaying my subjects by the millions?!?! And now they're coming here?!?!?!?! HOOOOOLY SH-!!!" No, he just...sort of sits there, and allows the attack to come. Why not use his unprecedented psychic might to snuff out a few hundred thousand chaos marines, or the miliions of traitor guard, or even primarch or two? Think about it, if the Emprah just mind-blasted...let's say... fifty thousand traitor marines (don't even try to tell me he couldn't do it-this cat IS the galaxies psychic lighthouse, remember?) the whole battle for Terra would have been over in days, and not weeks. Heresy era Emperor=laaaaaaaaaame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrible_Trygon Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Yeah, yeah. We all know the Ultra-hate is just compensating for the feelings of inadequacy you have for your own chapter :lol: I collect Imperial Guard. lolololololololol Also, I do not understand why everyone is so disappointed with the Word Bearers. They are heroes. Without them humanity would never stand any chance of being saved from the evil false-emperor and his monstrous lackeys. Thanks to the efforts of the brave Word Bearers, hopefully soon humanity will be under the purity of Chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensis Ferrae Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 IMO, i am rather dissapointed in my chosen chapter's primarch, Corax. If he was the "best" tactical mind that the galaxy had ever seen (as evidenced by the Codex Astartes, papasmurf collected info from everyone, but a good sum of tactics from the Ravens), then why did he allow a hot-headed primarch to walk into a trap on Isstvan (WTH is the proper spelling!? ive seen 2 or 3 different spellings) with 2 other loyal legions. If he had taken a much stronger stand, then there would have been a much safer back door out for them all to use to escape with fewer marine losses. other than that, im rather disappointed in some of the legions color scheme changes.. thousand suns go from red/gold to blue and gold??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrahawk Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 other than that, im rather disappointed in some of the legions color scheme changes.. thousand suns go from red/gold to blue and gold??? Oh, this is because they were pummeled by the Space Wolves until they turned blue. ;) I kid! I kid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I wonder why none of the loyal legions changed colors post heresy (barring Dark Angels and there color change coming from the Lion)? Off topic, I know, just a thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Alaric Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I wonder why none of the loyal legions changed colors post heresy (barring Dark Angels and there color change coming from the Lion)? Off topic, I know, just a thought... Space Wolves may have been a light blue instead of grey blue, I may be mistaken though. And the Iron Hands may have been a silvery-steelish grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Space Wolves used to be grey, now they are baby blue. Salamanders used to be super dark green, now they're medium green (I guess because the Dark Angels stole their scheme). Dark Angels were black and now they're dark-ish green. Ultramarines used to be a medium blue. After the Battle For Macragge they switched to a darker blue. As far as I know the rest haven't changed colors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I'm most disappointed in every Legion who didn't make it to the Siege. Dark Angels: Your Civil War couldn't wait? Space Wolves: You had to stop at all those planets, why? Ultramarines: There's a bazillion and a half of you, you didn't have ANY near Terra? Raven Guard, Salamanders, and Iron Hands: You couldn't suck it up long enough to come home and help out? Granted between the Imperial Fists soaking up bullets, the White Scars lightning warfare, and the Blood Angels chewing through the enemy, we had them stalemated, you just couldn't hurry :blink: ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I'm most disappointed in every Legion who didn't make it to the Siege. Dark Angels: Your Civil War couldn't wait? Space Wolves: You had to stop at all those planets, why? Ultramarines: There's a bazillion and a half of you, you didn't have ANY near Terra? Raven Guard, Salamanders, and Iron Hands: You couldn't suck it up long enough to come home and help out? Granted between the Imperial Fists soaking up bullets, the White Scars lightning warfare, and the Blood Angels chewing through the enemy, we had them stalemated, you just couldn't hurry :blink: ? lets not forget the Wolves were also ambused by the Alpha Legion after the Dropsite Massacre, and were ordered by Dorn to led the AL fleet away from Terra and if he could break free of the AL, then warp jump to terra. and the pitstop at planets was to ensure that a Imperium survived the Horus Heresy. A battered Terra with no forge worlds would be pretty much crippled in its efforts even with the Emperor alive. and i am ashamed of the Imperial Fists now that i think of it. Their sole job on Terra was to keep ONE being alive, and they pretty much failed that. (JK) WLK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Ultramarines: There's a bazillion and a half of you, you didn't have ANY near Terra? Aww....normally you're so well informed on Ultramarines stuff. Horus ordered Guilliman to take his whole Legion clear to the other side of the galaxy (near Ultramar) to stop a supposed super-Waaagh! which was in reality an ambush by the Word Bearers Legion. Never heard of the Battle Of Calth? Horus thinking clearly enough to know he couldn't beat the Ultramarines and sending them away instead is the major reason the Imperium isn't a happy place post-Heresy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Ultramarines: There's a bazillion and a half of you, you didn't have ANY near Terra? Aww....normally you're so well informed on Ultramarines stuff. Horus ordered Guilliman to take his whole Legion clear to the other side of the galaxy (near Ultramar) to stop a supposed super-Waaagh! which was in reality an ambush by the Word Bearers Legion. Never heard of the Battle Of Calth? Horus thinking clearly enough to know he couldn't beat the Ultramarines and sending them away instead is the major reason the Imperium isn't a happy place post-Heresy. I know why the LEGION wasn't there. But the Ultramarines were kicking xenos behind and taking names all over the galaxy, someone had to be on their way back or something, and they could have done an about face and booked it to Terra. In fact I am not convinced some didn't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Actually I believe Battle For The Abyss was about some Ultramarines who did think something was fishy and tried to stop the Word Bearers before the Battle Of Calth....but I've not yet read that book, so I don't know exactly how it turns out. Point is, if they're scattered about doing other stuff and small Ultramarines task forces probably would even get the memo that the Heresy was happening until sometime AFTER Calth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammeron Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I'm more disappointed with the HH portrayal of particular legions than the legions themselves. Conspicuous examples are: The Word Bearers. In my mind, the Word Bearers have always been dark evangelists; super-human crusaders who believe utterly in the truth and righteousness of their cause. Thus far, they've been portrayed as fairly two-dimensional, cackling super villains, particularly in the abominably written Battle For The Abyss. I would much prefer to see them portrayed in a monastic manner; beings who are willing to do anything in the name of their faith, and truly believe that they are setting humanity free from the shackles of false belief and delusion (even if they have to murder great swathes of it in the process). Thus far, I've also been fairly disappointed with the portrayal of the Space Wolves too. The one who appears in (once again) Battle For The Abyss is a belligerent, myopic imbecile who thinks with his fists if he ever thinks at all. Hopefully their character will be somewhat enhanced in the up and coming "Prospero" books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I'm most disappointed in every Legion who didn't make it to the Siege. Dark Angels: Your Civil War couldn't wait? That came after the Siege of Terra. The Dark Angels travelled to the siege with the Space Wolves. Lion El'Jonson vented his rage out on Leman Russ for slowing them down. ... lets not forget the Wolves were also ambused by the Alpha Legion after the Dropsite Massacre, and were ordered by Dorn to led the AL fleet away from Terra and if he could break free of the AL, then warp jump to terra. I can't wait for the book that shows the Dark Angels coming to the Space Wolves' rescue as that aforementioned "unexpected help". and the pitstop at planets was to ensure that a Imperium survived the Horus Heresy. A battered Terra with no forge worlds would be pretty much crippled in its efforts even with the Emperor alive. Priorities... :ermm: Terra was by no means decided, and all those forge worlds would have been pretty much pointless without the glory of Terra. :rolleyes: Cheers, P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogi Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 If its just HH books I would say Fulgrim is the most disappointing (because of the whole a daemon made me do it.. ), but I havent read all the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swords of Hatred Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 For almost all of the primarchs who fell to chaos the emperor could have stopped them easily earlier on. Standing with angon on his homeworld instead of teleporting him away and waiting until after mortarien had killed his step dad, admittedly he may have died but then he could have helped him. And then they would have appreicated it. Its the same with all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldenhaller Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I think it's the currect portrayal which gets my goat, it's the word bearers...they're so two dimensionally bad guy that every scene they're in you can see them twiddling pencil thin moustaches! grrr ~O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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