Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Vulkan Hestan


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
89 replies to this topic

#1
Jarl Bloodwolf

Jarl Bloodwolf

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 856 posts
ive got my own chapter and as their samoan/maori based i thought of the whole fire dancing thing and so i have alot of flamers in my army. also with my description of my chapter master he matches pretty close to Vulkan Hestan so iv'e got him in my army list as a counts as character but im wondering how effective is he in combat and is his chapter tactics worth it? so can any salamander players or anyone else who uses him give me some feedback on him?

and im not sure i posted this in the right place but i dont know where else i would have posted it so.....yeah

Edited by Jarl Bloodwolf, 19 November 2009 - 04:50 PM.

Jarl


Even a man who is pure of heart
And says his prayers by night
May become a wolf
When the wolfsbane blooms
And the Autumn moon is bright

#2
thade

thade

    ++ VELOX CLAMATOR ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 6,522 posts

ive got my own chapter and as their samoan/maori based i thought of the whole fire dancing thing and so i have alot of flamers in my army. also with my description of my chapter master he matches pretty close to Vulkan Hestan so iv'e got him in my army list as a counts as character but im wondering how effective is he in combat and is his chapter tactics worth it? so can any salamander players or anyone else who uses him give me some feedback on him?


I must apologize in advance, as my answer will clearly be biased.

This model routinely wins tournaments around where I am. His list is always the same deal:
- As many multimeltas and meltaguns as possible. This includes Tac Squads, Command Squads, Sternguard, and Dreadnoughts (the latter usually with Drop Pods). Landspeeders, and of course, a Land Raider. They are all twin-linked, meaning reroll 3+ to hit, 2+ to wound/instant death on most models, and 2d6 armor pen, +1 on the table.
- Inside the Land Raider goes He'stan and 5+ TH/SS terminators. Each of their hammers count as Mastercrafted, so they reroll one miss, and they are all Str 8 with 3++ invuln saves.
- He'stan himself has a master-crafted Relic Blade (reroll one missed to-hit, Str 6 power weapon), a 2+ armor save, a 3++ invuln save. When you consider how powerful he makes your army anyway, you'd think he'd be a wimp. In reality, he's almost a match for freakin Calgar in a fight. Oh, and he has a Heavy Flamer too.
- There are flamers here and there, which are also twin-linked (reroll to wound), but they are far outmatched by MMs.

In my opinion (just my opinion) this is the biggest cheeselist that Marines can make. It is not for Friendly games. It is for "I really want to win the prize in this tournament" games. There is remarkably little that can stand up to it (barring a list that identically matches it). I hate playing against it. In fact, if I have the choice, I won't. It is one of the two armies I have faced more than once that has effortlessly wiped me from the table with very few losses of its own, and I didn't have fun playing at all. (Probably didn't help that my opponents seemed to know they were invincible with said list and enjoyed rubbing it in my face.)

Is he effective? At winning, yes. At having an enjoyable game, no.

Funniest part is, I have a fully painted Counts-As He'Stan in my pack. My initial plan was to run such a list, but after I experienced the receiving end of it, it was a very quick decision to NEVER run such a list of my own accord.
QUOTE. In the book called "Core Rules". Page 14. Top Left Inset. In the chapter called "General Principles."
"Your responsibility isn't just to follow the rules, it's also to add your own ideas, drama and creativity to the game. Much of the appeal of this game lies in the freedom and open-endedness that this allows; it is in the spirit that the rules have been written."

QUOTE.  Silent Requiem
"About my list; it is weak. But it fits me, and that counts for a lot more than any amount of mathammer." 

#3
Jarl Bloodwolf

Jarl Bloodwolf

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 856 posts

In my opinion (just my opinion) this is the biggest cheeselist that Marines can make. It is not for Friendly games. It is for "I really want to win the prize in this tournament" games. There is remarkably little that can stand up to it (barring a list that identically matches it). I hate playing against it. In fact, if I have the choice, I won't. It is one of the two armies I have faced more than once that has effortlessly wiped me from the table with very few losses of its own, and I didn't have fun playing at all. (Probably didn't help that my opponents seemed to know they were invincible with said list and enjoyed rubbing it in my face.)

Is he effective? At winning, yes. At having an enjoyable game, no.




thank you for your input but i assure you my list isnt anything like that. my army dosent have a single melta weapon within its ranks....i dont think. just about every unit that can take a flamer has one and pretty much my army is compromised of Vulkan, a captain in TDA, a term squad and a Drednought and scout squad. my tactical squads are drop pod bound and i have 9 land speeders.

that list you described just sounds completly unsporting

Edited by bannus, 19 November 2009 - 07:59 PM.
Added quote tags.

Jarl


Even a man who is pure of heart
And says his prayers by night
May become a wolf
When the wolfsbane blooms
And the Autumn moon is bright

#4
thade

thade

    ++ VELOX CLAMATOR ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 6,522 posts

thank you for your input but i assure you my list isnt anything like that. my army dosent have a single melta weapon within its ranks....i dont think. just about every unit that can take a flamer has one and pretty much my army is compromised of Vulkan, a captain in TDA, a term squad and a Drednought and scout squad. my tactical squads are drop pod bound and i have 9 land speeders.

that list you described just sounds completly unsporting


That's a horse of a different color, as they say. =)

All twin-linked flamers would be reasonably effective against bodies. You'll still need anti-vehicle to pop open transports and take down tanks. If your solution to that is to fit your Vulkan-ized list here, it may as well be Melta tech (then you're running the list I spoke of after all). If you don't, you'll at least need Missile Launchers and Lascannons to punch through armor/pop transports.
QUOTE. In the book called "Core Rules". Page 14. Top Left Inset. In the chapter called "General Principles."
"Your responsibility isn't just to follow the rules, it's also to add your own ideas, drama and creativity to the game. Much of the appeal of this game lies in the freedom and open-endedness that this allows; it is in the spirit that the rules have been written."

QUOTE.  Silent Requiem
"About my list; it is weak. But it fits me, and that counts for a lot more than any amount of mathammer." 

#5
Iron_Chaos_Brute

Iron_Chaos_Brute

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,013 posts
And now for the tourney player's point of view.
Vulkan is good, yes. But is he game-breaking? Nowhere near. Like everything else in the game, he can be handled if you play smart.
I personally groan when I see Vulkan across the table because I have bad matchups with Vulkan armies, but that's not really relevant.
Vulkan is part of the game, adapt or die.
There is no surer way to get me to tear your army list up for you than claiming that it's unbeatable.

Named Disciple of the Minigun by Minigun762, November 1st, 2009.

QUOTE (Lord_Caerolion @ Sep 8 2008, 10:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"Yeah, these are my Night Lords. The Lord worships Slaanesh, and is a Daemon Prince who can scare people where he wants them to go. And this is his twin, another Slaaneshi Prince, who can do the same."


QUOTE (chillin @ Nov 2 2009, 09:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do you play a lot of retards?


Check out my blog at: http://ironchaosbrute.blogspot.com

#6
thade

thade

    ++ VELOX CLAMATOR ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 6,522 posts

And now for the tourney player's point of view.
Vulkan is good, yes. But is he game-breaking? Nowhere near. Like everything else in the game, he can be handled if you play smart.
I personally groan when I see Vulkan across the table because I have bad matchups with Vulkan armies, but that's not really relevant.
Vulkan is part of the game, adapt or die.


Forgive me for saying so, but I hardly think the options include death. =P This is a game we're talking about, yes?

I'd be curious to hear how people have beaten soundly the list I described, because the times I've seen it in action it has without any real opposition steamrolled it's way to victory.
QUOTE. In the book called "Core Rules". Page 14. Top Left Inset. In the chapter called "General Principles."
"Your responsibility isn't just to follow the rules, it's also to add your own ideas, drama and creativity to the game. Much of the appeal of this game lies in the freedom and open-endedness that this allows; it is in the spirit that the rules have been written."

QUOTE.  Silent Requiem
"About my list; it is weak. But it fits me, and that counts for a lot more than any amount of mathammer." 

#7
templargdt

templargdt

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 508 posts
I built a Vulkan model for 'Ard Boyz and he took me to the finals. The Vulkan list (especially at high point values) is the most competitive build in the SM book IMHO.

Like Thade, I decided to put him in my figure case and leave him at home except for really serious tournament play. Winning is nice and all, but if you want to continue to play people they don't like getting their head handed to them in a friendly game. It's just the same if I had a guy at my FLGS show up every time with a Nob Biker list I either wouldn't play him OR I'd have my Vulkan list handy just for him but no one else in the store.

As to how you build the list you play to Vulkan's benefits, so you use a lot of meltas, flamers and thunderhammers, which are all excellent weapons to start with. Then look at other lists you can expect to see (Lash/Oblits, IG, other Vulkan lists) and you try and figure ways to improve your percentage agains them by tweaking what you are brining.
1 John 4:8

#8
glayvin34

glayvin34

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 258 posts
Vulkan is the MAN. None of the other SM special characters give you such a far-reaching, permanent and practical benefit, and he's pretty badass in CC. However, I don't always field a Termie assault squad, which is really the best retinue for him. The few times I've left him at the firebase or tried to have him run next to a standard assault squad the enemy kept away and he took lascannon and missile shots until he died. But he left his master-crafted weapons behind, and that carried the game forward for me.

In a nutshell, his Chapter Tactics and his Combat abilities are both worth the point cost alone, but you get both.
Some goddamn fool once said that flanks have got to be secure. Since then sonofabitches all over the globe have been guarding their flanks. I don't agree with that. My flanks are something for the enemy to worry about, not me. Before he finds out where my flanks are, I'll be cutting the bastard's throat.
-General George Patton

Fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man.
-General George Patton

If absolute power corrupts absolutely, does absolute powerlessness make you absolutely pure?
-Harry Shearer

#9
Gornall

Gornall

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 594 posts
He's definately a very solid character. However, don't just load up on Meltas/Flamers because you think you need to. Make sure to mix in some long-range threats or your enemy will just lead you around by the nose.
Meltaspam.blogspot.com -- For battle reports and pictures of my Counts As Ultramarine Honor Guard Army

QUOTE (captainlentus @ Nov 6 2008, 05:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lysander is like the Hulk, the angrier her gets, the stronger he gets and I'm sure being locked up got him pretty pissed. LYSANDER SMASH!

#10
Iron_Chaos_Brute

Iron_Chaos_Brute

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,013 posts

Forgive me for saying so, but I hardly think the options include death. =P This is a game we're talking about, yes?

Refering to the little plastic army men :D

I'd be curious to hear how people have beaten soundly the list I described, because the times I've seen it in action it has without any real opposition steamrolled it's way to victory.

Guard'll give it trouble (T1, Manticores take out Raider, Chims+Hydras take out most Rhinos/Speeders, Banewolves'll kill whole squads, and Mechvets don't really care when you pop their transports as long as you're within 18 when you do so) as will BW Orks (They get too close too fast, KFF counters Vulkan's TL, and once they're there, they don't care about losing transports) or lootas/Shootas (Kan screen + KFF counters the Raider, Lootas take care of Rhinos/Speeders). Lash/Obits/PMs has termicide to deal with the raider and plenty of lascannons to deal w/ speeders/Rhino bunkers, and Lash controls the TH/SS squad once it's out of the Raider. Tau have Suiticide/Railguns to kill the Raider, and Deathrain/Railguns to deal with Rhinos/Speeders (sound familiar? :lol: ). For a suboptimal build, though, tooled Vulkan's a bear to deal with. He's just one more reason that every army should have at least 2 things to counter AV 14 (reliably, not just Meltas in Tac squads or somesuch) and 3 things to counter light Mech (Rhinos, Speeders, Dreads, etc.)

EDIT- and Gornall has it.

Edited by Iron_Chaos_Brute, 19 November 2009 - 07:52 PM.

There is no surer way to get me to tear your army list up for you than claiming that it's unbeatable.

Named Disciple of the Minigun by Minigun762, November 1st, 2009.

QUOTE (Lord_Caerolion @ Sep 8 2008, 10:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"Yeah, these are my Night Lords. The Lord worships Slaanesh, and is a Daemon Prince who can scare people where he wants them to go. And this is his twin, another Slaaneshi Prince, who can do the same."


QUOTE (chillin @ Nov 2 2009, 09:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do you play a lot of retards?


Check out my blog at: http://ironchaosbrute.blogspot.com

#11
Vaktathi

Vaktathi

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 152 posts

ive got my own chapter and as their samoan/maori based i thought of the whole fire dancing thing and so i have alot of flamers in my army. also with my description of my chapter master he matches pretty close to Vulkan Hestan so iv'e got him in my army list as a counts as character but im wondering how effective is he in combat and is his chapter tactics worth it? so can any salamander players or anyone else who uses him give me some feedback on him?

and im not sure i posted this in the right place but i dont know where else i would have posted it so.....yeah

He's effective enough that the overwhelming majority of SM armies I've faced field him. I've seen him in Ultramarines blue as often as Sallies green and every color in between. It's gotten to the point where when I come across a new SM army, I basically expect it to include him, and I've been wrong so far...once.


Seriously, for his cost, he's a boatload of dumb. You can take an normal captain, give him artificer armor, stormshield, digital weapons, and a relic blade, then then illegally give him a combi-flamer, and he'd be a grand total of *10pts* less than Vulkan with an illegal weapons loadout, a *far* weaker and only one-shot flamer that doesn't get to reroll to wound, no reroll to hit in CC, and no farking ridiculous army wide ability to reroll wounds with flamers, reroll misses with melta weapons, and reroll a miss with Thunder Hammers on 2+/3++ Terminators. Mind you flamers and meltas are some of the most important and powerful weapons in 5E 40k.

Yeah, for 190pts, you get a stupid amount of value from Vulkan. He'd be worth his cost even *without* his completely ridiculous Chapter Tactics ability.

I'd be curious to hear how people have beaten soundly the list I described, because the times I've seen it in action it has without any real opposition steamrolled it's way to victory.

I've done it with both CSM's and Guard. With CSM's it was pretty much all about using the Icons to accurately deep strike Oblits and combi-melta termi's to take out the SM vehicles, let Vulkan eat something before shooting his unit to death with half my army, and engaging everything else in CC with CSM's and using their greater CC attacks advantage. Usually it's very close however. IG generally just outshoot it, and fight it melta for melta and field more tanks than the Vulkan list can kill even with a bajillion meltas. Vendetta's help a lot and Vulkans CC terminator deathstar tends to be grossly overkill. That said, I don't think my IG list is any less hideous than that Vulkan list so I have to cut it down too in order to play friendly games mostly.

I wouldn't bother trying to play that list though with my Tau or Eldar.

Edited by Vaktathi, 19 November 2009 - 08:39 PM.

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

#12
Brother Xeones

Brother Xeones

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 257 posts

He's definately a very solid character. However, don't just load up on Meltas/Flamers because you think you need to. Make sure to mix in some long-range threats or your enemy will just lead you around by the nose.


Not necessarily. To make up for the short range of the weapons that Vulcan enhances, you either need to mix in longer range weapons, or you need to invest in mobility. Gating Librarians, Bikes, Landspeeders, Drop Pods, etc --all work to get your short-range guns where they need to go.

#13
Mycroft Holmes

Mycroft Holmes

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 276 posts

In a nutshell, his Chapter Tactics and his Combat abilities are both worth the point cost alone, but you get both.



This is exactly true.

#14
thade

thade

    ++ VELOX CLAMATOR ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 6,522 posts
So far, all of the suggestions as to how to take down Vulkan and his Cheese-ified Crew involve armies that are not Space Marines (the only army I play). =) How does a Space Marine player take down He'stan?
QUOTE. In the book called "Core Rules". Page 14. Top Left Inset. In the chapter called "General Principles."
"Your responsibility isn't just to follow the rules, it's also to add your own ideas, drama and creativity to the game. Much of the appeal of this game lies in the freedom and open-endedness that this allows; it is in the spirit that the rules have been written."

QUOTE.  Silent Requiem
"About my list; it is weak. But it fits me, and that counts for a lot more than any amount of mathammer." 

#15
Mikal Wolfheart

Mikal Wolfheart

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 3,818 posts

So far, all of the suggestions as to how to take down Vulkan and his Cheese-ified Crew involve armies that are not Space Marines (the only army I play). =) How does a Space Marine player take down He'stan?


Shooting him and his squad repeatedly?
QUOTE (A D-B @ Jan 10 2011, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
THE CUSTODIANS AREN'T PSYCHIC OH MY GOD I HATE YOU MIKAL.





Working with Resin

#16
Deus de Mortalis

Deus de Mortalis

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 428 posts
Oodles of plasma cannons plasma guns, nothing with an armor value, no scouts, tons of ablative wounds, a couple squads of suicidal multi-melta attack bikes to take down a land raider, maybe two. I don't really know, just my guess.

Vulkan makes each melta count as 1.33 meltas, and depending on toughness and WS, each flamer or thunder hammer wounding or hitting on a 4+ count as 1.5 flamers or melta guns. A squad of 3 MM attack bikes suddenly has the equivalent of 4 multimeltas. All of this benefit is pretty much completely for free since vulkan is priced accurately even if it was just him and not the special rules.

Edited by Deus de Mortalis, 19 November 2009 - 10:17 PM.


#17
Gornall

Gornall

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 594 posts
Cure for Vulkan armies... keep them outside of 24".
Meltaspam.blogspot.com -- For battle reports and pictures of my Counts As Ultramarine Honor Guard Army

QUOTE (captainlentus @ Nov 6 2008, 05:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lysander is like the Hulk, the angrier her gets, the stronger he gets and I'm sure being locked up got him pretty pissed. LYSANDER SMASH!

#18
Brother_Kluft

Brother_Kluft

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 293 posts
Vulkan is good, really good.
But I don't think he is as game breaking as it seems. As the game gets into higher points he becomes progressively better as he can effect more units. At lower points he is really good, but not rediculous. Lets take my 1500 vulkan list

Weapon-------> Effective Number of Weapons
2 HFlamer (incl Vulkan) ----> 3 HFlamers
3 Flamer -----> 4.5 flamers
1 Melta ----- >1.33 Meltas
3 MMelta -----> 4 MMelta
6 Hammers ----->7.5 hammers (vs WS4)

So in exchange for combat tactics/fleet/stubborn/outflank I get
1 more heavy flamer
1.5 more flamers
1/3 meltagun
1 MMelta
1.5 Hammers

[and take into account that these are not actuall weapons, thus there are still fewer targets to shoot at, etc...]
And my army has NO other heavy or special weapons.

I think that at least at 1500, those extra weapon effects are nicely balanced by the other tactics

Combat tactics vs Vulkan = Equal
Fleet vs Vulkan = Tough one, but fleet is marginally better I think
Stubborn vs Vulkan = Vulkan is better
Outflank vs vulkan = Vulkan by a slight margin.


So good, yes. Broken? Maybe at 2000/2500 but at 1500 I don't think so.

Edited by Brother_Kluft, 19 November 2009 - 10:52 PM.

"For the Emperor and Sangunius! Death! DEATH!"

Crimson Ascendants, Blood Angels Successors.


#19
silversmith82

silversmith82

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 260 posts
Unconventional SM army can get him. Little or nothing with armor, a crapton of plasma cannons, something to get the raider and a badder ass in CC than Vulkan (Calgar or Lysander). Hey, something like I'm basically building lol. I hate cheese lists so I like to make lists to take them down. Podding dreads and suicide Sternguard will get lit up by a Vulcan army. Range and plasma pieplates are the order of the day here. An anti-deepstriking inquisitor will absolutely RUIN the podding melta dreads/Ironclads that come standard in a Vulkan army. 3 Tac squads combat squadded down with plasma cannons hanging back and a 4 plasma cannon devastator squad combat squadded down and placed in separate locations. Thats 7 pie plates a turn not to mention you can give the other half of the combat squad meltas and drop pods to go after his LR.

Edited by silversmith82, 19 November 2009 - 11:30 PM.


#20
Mikal Wolfheart

Mikal Wolfheart

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 3,818 posts
Sicarius or Khan might be an idea, instakill blades would be nice, if only he failed the save.

Alternately a libby with force weapon.

Edited by Mikal Wolfheart, 19 November 2009 - 11:27 PM.

QUOTE (A D-B @ Jan 10 2011, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
THE CUSTODIANS AREN'T PSYCHIC OH MY GOD I HATE YOU MIKAL.





Working with Resin

#21
Vaktathi

Vaktathi

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 152 posts

Cure for Vulkan armies... keep them outside of 24".

Easier said than done, especially considring all the deployment options available to marines and the fact that the sweet spot for all SM armies is 12-18" to be at their peak efficiency.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

#22
thade

thade

    ++ VELOX CLAMATOR ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 6,522 posts

Cure for Vulkan armies... keep them outside of 24".

Easier said than done, especially considring all the deployment options available to marines and the fact that the sweet spot for all SM armies is 12-18" to be at their peak efficiency.


That has been my experience vs. Mr. Vulkan. Killing Vulkan himself is not so much the issue. It's killing the rest of his nightmare of a list whether he's up or down. All that twin-linked melta fire is very despoiling.
QUOTE. In the book called "Core Rules". Page 14. Top Left Inset. In the chapter called "General Principles."
"Your responsibility isn't just to follow the rules, it's also to add your own ideas, drama and creativity to the game. Much of the appeal of this game lies in the freedom and open-endedness that this allows; it is in the spirit that the rules have been written."

QUOTE.  Silent Requiem
"About my list; it is weak. But it fits me, and that counts for a lot more than any amount of mathammer." 

#23
silversmith82

silversmith82

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 260 posts
Well what are the problem units and how do you deal with them?

-Terminators/PA Marines - Plasma Cannons
-Drop Podding Dread - A few LSSs with jammers and meltas in your deployment zone. Or an allied Inquisitor.
-Land Raider - Your own drop podding melta dreads or better still (imo) a 5 man combat squad in a pod with a meltagun and combi melta. Or Speeders/Bikes.

These things are often included in SM armies anyways.

#24
Giga

Giga

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,655 posts

And now for the tourney player's point of view.
Vulkan is good, yes. But is he game-breaking? Nowhere near. Like everything else in the game, he can be handled if you play smart.
I personally groan when I see Vulkan across the table because I have bad matchups with Vulkan armies, but that's not really relevant.
Vulkan is part of the game, adapt or die.

I couldn't have said it better myself. ;)

The only thing I disagree with is that I actually love playing against Vulkan armies. Vulkan vs Vulkan battles are always fun fun fun!

People whining about Vulkan being "cheesy" and "overpowered" is just people who need a reason to complain. Vulkan only makes some of the weapons a vanilla army would take anyway more reliable. People already did math on him, and he's nowhere near as massive an improvement as people seem to believe, and nowhere near as "winbutton" as people WANT to think.


#25
Deus de Mortalis

Deus de Mortalis

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 428 posts

I couldn't have said it better myself. :lol:

The only thing I disagree with is that I actually love playing against Vulkan armies. Vulkan vs Vulkan battles are always fun fun fun!

People whining about Vulkan being "cheesy" and "overpowered" is just people who need a reason to complain. Vulkan only makes some of the weapons a vanilla army would take anyway more reliable. People already did math on him, and he's nowhere near as massive an improvement as people seem to believe, and nowhere near as "winbutton" as people WANT to think.


Said like only a true Vulkan Cheese player could.

The math shows that Vulkan DOES confer a massive improvement, Vulkan makes all of your meltas fire as if they are BS6, your flamers hit as if they are strength 5.5, your heavy flamers as if they are stength 6.5, and lets you land a few more hits each round of combat with the most devastating close combat weapon your troops can carry. All this benefit is at no cost because the independent character himself is worth all of his points to begin with! If you see no problem with this regarding the game, you are truly blind. Vulkan can confer a huge advantage to a list built around him. If Vulkan wasn't so powerful or gave that much of a benefit, why would you and a preponderance of marine players take him? I doubt it is because you and they are in love with Salamanders fluff.

Edited by Deus de Mortalis, 20 November 2009 - 05:27 PM.