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Index Astartes: Legio


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#1
Brother Tyler

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Space Marine from the Legio Bolter & Chainsword
Index Astartes : PURGE THE UNCLEAN

The Legio Bolter & Chainsword

By the members of the +Inner Sanctum+

The Space Marines of the Adeptus Astartes are the mightiest warriors in the Imperium and their fury in battle is legendary. Few can stand against the might of a Space Marine Chapter and the foes of Mankind tremble at their name. But there are heretics and traitors within the Imperium whose evil threatens Mankind from within. To face such foes demands warriors whose hearts and souls are trained to withstand extremes of pain and terror, whose faith in the Emperor is as unwavering as it is strong. Since the dawn of the Imperium a brotherhood of Space Marines have fought these foes and defeated them. They are the Legio.

Origins

Starting in the days of the Second Founding, a number of Chapters maintained a loose alliance. This wasn't a formal alliance, but an unwritten agreement to communicate and cooperate insofar as they were able. Over the millennia, this alliance allowed a means of arbitration and cooperation among the participating Chapters. The heaviest participants were the Successors of Roboute Guilliman and Rogal Dorn.

On numerous occasions this alliance prevented whole-scale battle between Chapters and allowed the Adeptus Astartes to police their own before the rest of the Imperium learned of wayward Chapters.

When Goge Vandire rose to power and the Age of Apostasy began, the efforts of the alliance served the interests of all Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes. Ever since the ascension of the Ministorum and the Imperial Cult, the Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes had been at odds with the rest of the Imperium with regard to the Emperor's divinity. Knowing that Vandire's reign of blood was particularly intolerant, the loose alliance foresaw the Ministorum leaping at the opportunity to crush the heretic Space Marines. The various Chapters within the alliance saw the wisdom of remaining aloof from Vandire's campaigns and persuaded the majority of Chapters to do likewise.

As the Age of Apostasy continued, the various Chapters within the alliance saw Vandire for what he was. A few among these Chapters decided to take action, leading a massive force against Vandire on Holy Terra. The exploits of these Chapters are well documented.

Following the demise of Vandire and the end of the Age of Apostasy, three major organizations came about:
  • The Inquisition formed the Ordo Hereticus to keep an eye on the Ministorum and orthodoxy of religion.
  • The Sisters of Battle were re-created from the Brides of the Emperor. While they were formed as the military force of the Ministorum (with the prohibition on the Ministorum maintaining "men" at arms), they soon became tightly bonded to the Ordo Hereticus, acting as their Chamber Militant.
  • The Space Marines formalized the loose alliance that had existed for millennia. This alliance was known only to a few outside of the Adeptus Astartes, calling itself simply "The Legio" as a symbol of their fealty to the Emperor and the legions of old.
The Legio had several objectives:
  • First was to maintain bonds of friendship and loyalty among the manifold Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes. While each Chapter is a potent force in its own right, most number only around 1,000 men-at-arms. The most influential leaders among the Space Marines knew that individually their Chapters could be crushed by the massive war machine of the Imperium, especially in light of their unorthodox religious practices and independence from the Imperium. By cementing their alliance into a formal organization, they could better support and cooperate with each other.
  • Second was to keep an eye on the Imperium. For too long the bulk of the Adeptus Astartes had remained aloof from the Imperium. Their independence was a double-edged sword - they were beholden to no one except themselves, but they lacked strong alliances with other elements of the Imperium's power structure. Individual Chapters had minor alliances or working relationships with various other Imperial organizations based upon need or convenience alone. These relationships related directly to the prosecution of war, whether it be Techmarines training with the Adeptus Mechanicus, the acquisition of materiel and ammunition from the Adeptus Ministorum, or other requirements. The leaders of the Legio knew that the Space Marines would need to maintain closer observation on the developments within the Imperium's power structure. Their aloofness could have been disastrous if Goge Vandire had decided to destroy the Space Marines he had long thought to be heretical. The Legio wouldn't allow such a prospect to come to fruition in the future.
  • Third was to keep an eye on the Adeptus Astartes. The Space Marines were held in awe by the citizens of the Imperium and the various factions within the Imperium's power structure were wary of the various Chapters. Through the millennia several incidences of Chapters going renegade had occurred. At other times, individual Chapters' independence had put them at odds with elements of the Imperium. In addition, Chapters had often faced off against each other in battle over numerous and sundry issues. The Legio hoped to prevent future such occurrences as much as possible. By acting as watchmen and arbiters, the Legio might allow the Space Marines to prosper as much as possible so that they could continue in the work of the Emperor without coming afoul of each other or the politics of the Imperium.
  • A byproduct of the Legio's role in keeping an eye on the various Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes is the Legio's self-imposed mandate to hunt down traitor Astartes. Most Chapters are very reticent about revealing when any of their members turn renegade, so the Legio usually captures and executes traitor Astartes. On the rare occasion when a Chapter reveals information about renegades, however, the Legio is willing to work in concert with that Chapter and to turn captured traitors over to their parent Chapter.
The original Legio consisted of Space Marines assigned or donated by the Chapters of the original alliance. The Chapters that participated in the Second Siege of Terra provide the bulk of the Legio's original members. Other Chapters eventually realized the potential of the Legio and provided men and materiel. The Legio created a secret base within the Segmentum Solar, rumored to have once belonged to a Chapter long ago lost in battle.

The influence of certain founding Chapters enabled the Legio to prosper. The Imperial Fists were pivotal in the creation of the Legio and those members of the Imperial Fists Chapter who helped to form the founding core of the Legio brought with them the Imperial Fists' good relations with other elements of the Imperium's various factions. They brought every influence they had to bear on the Legio's formative alliances with the Adeptus Mechanicus, Scholastica Psykana, and Navis Nobilite.

The Legio acts as an enforcer for the Adeptus Mechanicus, and ensures that each Chapter submits the required gene-seed tithes. In return, the Adeptus Mechanicus provides the Legio with the materials of war, training of their techmarines and apothecaries, and even gene-seed to propagate the Chapter.

The Scholastica Psykana provides psykers suitable for induction into the Adeptus Astartes. It is primarily for these recruits that the Legio needs the gene-seed provided by the Adeptus Mechanicus. While the various Chapters of the Space Marines are willing to allow the Legio to take a handful of Space Marines, the specialists within a Chapter are invaluable. While the Adeptus Mechanicus can train techmarines and apothecaries, only psykers can become librarians. So the Legio uses the gene-seed secretly provided by the Adeptus Mechanicus and implants it in aspirants recruited from outside the various Chapters. A handful of Librarians within the Legio are drawn from Chapters willing to give up its psykers, the Black Templars being a notable example. For the most part, however, the Legio's Librarians have no parent Chapter, being created solely for the Legio.

The Navis Nobilite provides navigators for the fledgling organization's space-faring ships. Over the millennia, the Legio has secretly worked to support various navigator houses and in return, the houses have continued to provide the Legio with navigators and confidentiality.

The Chapter's strength is maintained through an ancient compact with the Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes. Each Chapter provides one or two of its battle-brothers to the Legio. In return, the Legio will ensure that the Chapter receives the gene-seed of the battle-brothers when they fall in battle. This gene-seed is supplemented with pure gene-seed from that Chapter's stocks maintained by the Adeptus Mechanicus. When the Legio delivers the new gene-seed and the gene-seed of the fallen, the fallen battle-brother is replaced by the Chapter.

Home World

The home world of the Legio, if such exists, is a closely guarded secret. Several minor bases exist in strategic locations throughout the Imperium, but the Legio's main base is known only to the Great Captains, Captains, and the Navigators. Most often, the companies of the Legio patrol independently aboard strike cruisers. The Chapter has three battle barges, each commanded by one of the Great Captains. Each of these battle barges houses considerable assets and they are often used when the Legio needs to muster significant forces or impress upon any of the other Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes the need for diplomacy.

Combat Doctrine

The Legio doesn't have any specific combat doctrine. Drawing from all Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes, the Legio possesses a great amount of flexibility. While an individual company or detachment might be trained extensively in a specific area based on the experience and desires of the commander, the overall combat doctrine of the Legio follows the Codex Astartes mandate of maximum flexibility.

Organization

The Legio is organized into three Great Companies, each named for one of the aspects of the Emperor to which the Adeptus Astartes are devoted. The Blood of the Emperor Great Company is named for the sacrifices the Emperor made in order to see the Imperium created, and which he continues to make in order to perpetuate the Imperium; the Light of the Emperor Great Company is named for the wisdom and knowledge the Emperor brought to the pockets of humanity that had been scattered throughout the galaxy, delivering them from the darkness of separation from the world of their origin; and the Justice of the Emperor Great Company is named for the punishment the Emperor and his Adeptus Astartes delivered to the enemies of Mankind. Each of these Great Companies is commanded by a Great Captain, the three Great Captains form the council that, with the leaders of the specialist orders within the Legio (the Chief Librarian, Reclusiarch, Master of the Forge, and Chief Apothecary), directs the overall efforts of the Legio.

Within the Great Companies are lesser companies, each comparable to a standard battle company. These companies are led by Captains and are embarked aboard Strike Cruisers, carrying out the mission of the Legio across the length and breadth of the Imperium. The exact composition of each company varies with the desires of the Captains, each tailoring his fighting force to his preferences and skills.

Beliefs

The Legio's Chaplains are trained within the Legio. Drawing from most of the Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes, the warrior cult of the Legio is unique within the Space Marines. The Legio's rites honor the Emperor and each of the Loyalist primarchs. Beyond this central core, the Legio's warrior cult seeks to fulfill only those elements that all Chapters agree upon. The Chaplains of the Legio preach faith in its most abstract sense without supporting any individual Chapter's beliefs. The rites of the Legio incorporate only those elements in which the various Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes most agree. In many ways, the Chaplains act as disciplinarians and enablers to cooperation among the battle brothers.

Recruitment and Service in the Legio

Joining the Legio is for life. The Legio acts as an independent battle force, sending detachments where it will, often in aid of other Chapters or military organizations within the Imperium. Companies are composited to whatever suits the needs of the leader. Since most new members are seasoned members from their respective Chapters, the Legio can draw on a wealth of experience and training, enabling leaders to task organize and conduct operations in ways not normally available to standard battle companies of Codex Chapters.

When a battle-brother of the Legio dies, his gene-seed and wargear are returned to the parent Chapter of the deceased, accompanied by an honour guard. The parent Chapter will receive the remains of their battle-brother, taking the gene-seed for the continued survival of the Chapter. The parent Chapter will then choose a replacement for the deceased battle-brother. The criteria and rituals used vary from Chapter to Chapter, with the only consistent element being that replacement battle-brothers are usually full battle-brothers. Chapters very rarely give specialists such as Librarians or Chaplains, nor do they assign battle brothers higher than the rank of Veteran Sergeant to serve in the Legio. Some of the Legio's new recruits are volunteers, others are selected by the leadership of their parent Chapter. Regardless, assignment to the Legio is always an honour, never a punishment.

Heraldry and Color Scheme

The battle-brothers who formed the initial core of the Legio agreed to the original heraldry, taking black as their main color as a sign of their devotion to the Emperor. The badge of the Legio is a skull, similar to the device used by the Chaplains of the various Chapters, with crossed bones added. Each battle-brother retains the badge of his parent Chapter upon his right shoulder pad, a reminder of the diversity within the Legio and the might of the Adeptus Astartes. Most of the original battle-brothers assigned to the Legio were Sergeants or Veteran Sergeants, and the Codex Astartes red helmet for Sergeants was adopted for all members of the Legio. The color of the battle-brother's Great Company is displayed upon his left kneepad - red for Blood of the Emperor, white for Light of the Emperor, and black for Justice of the Emperor.

Battle-brothers often transfer their personal battle-honours or parent Chapter traditions to their Legio armour. For example, Legio battle-brothers from the Crimson Fists always have both gauntlets painted red in the tradition of their parent Chapter, while battle-brothers from the Salamanders often include hammer or flame markings upon their armour. In this way, a Legio force has a unique appearance that draws upon diverse influences.

Battle-Cry

The Legio has no specified battle-cry, allowing the battle-brothers to rally around whatever battle-cry the commanders decide upon.

Using a Legio Bolter & Chainsword Army in Warhammer 40,000

A typical Legio army is created using Codex: Space Marines. Players that desire may use any of the Space Marine codices (Black Templars, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves) to represent a Legio army that represents its commander in a non-standard way.

Note that we are in the process of developing alternate rules for using a Legio army. These will be provided when they are completed.

Guidelines for Creating Legio Bolter & Chainsword Personas

Many members of the Bolter & Chainsword discussion forum create miniatures to represent their B&C personas. It is not necessary for a Legio Bolter & Chainsword battle-brother to be armed with a bolter and chainsword, that was simply a requirement for the miniature painting contest. Legio B&C members can represent the entire range of standard Space Marines, scouts, squad members, chaplains, librarians, techmarines, apothecaries, etc. The upper echelons of Legio Bolter & Chainsword leadership should be considered off-limits. For the most part, new recruits into the Legio will be standard battle-brothers or Veterans from their respective Chapters. Within the Legio it's possible to have a Chaplain that used to be a Space Wolf (instead of making him a Wolf Priest), a Librarian from the Black Templars, etc.

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Sanger's entry.

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Badab's entry.

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Renauld de Chatillon's entry.

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#2
Brother Tyler

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We've made a few minor revisions to the Legio's background, mostly in the interest of simplicity. This post will provide some insights into those changes as well as the behind the scenes story of the Legio's development.

First, let's cover the basic behind the scenes events.

The Legio was discussed fairly early in the history of the Bolter & Chainsword website, though we didn't move forward with it until late 2001 when we held the Legio Mini-Me Contest. In that contest, members were challenged to create a miniature to represent them on the B&C. We decided to use the Legio as our vehicle, the Chapter that would represent the board as a whole. The Chapter Approved rules for the Deathwatch had just been released, as well as the Index Astartes article for both the Deathwatch and the Grey Knights. At that time, many of the moderators were identified with the Inquisition (due to the heavy hand we took in policing the forums at that time). So we decided that we needed to reflect that in our Chapter background. In the Index Astartes article it was revealed that all of the Ordos had a Chapter of Space Marines at their disposal. Since the Deathwatch were aligned with the Ordo Xenos and the Grey Knights were aligned with the Ordo Malleus, we decided to align the Legio with the Ordo Hereticus.

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We actually chose two schemes for the Legio. The original scheme, which came to be called the "Rogue Trader" scheme, included a black and white checkerboard pattern on the right boot and the use of bone white. While developing the Legio background, we also decided upon a "modern" scheme that was adopted after a schism (more on the schism later). We removed the requirement for the black and white checkerboard pattern and changed the bone white to pure white in the modern scheme. It's interesting to note that the modern scheme bore a strong resemblance to the "Field Police" depicted in the Rogue Trader rulebook (pictured at right). The Rogue Trader rules were written when the game universe was in a state of high flux and the Space Marines were much closer to a real modern military force than the ritualized gothic force we know today. The Field Police don't appear to have ever been developed beyond the picture, so it seems only fitting that we've adopted the color scheme and implied role for the Legio (we'll cover the role more later).

One of the major issues we contended with back in 2001 was representing our members that played Chaos Space Marines. We wanted our mascot Chapter to be representative of our membership as a whole, so we wanted to give these players their due. Our solution was to have a schism in which a sizeable portion of the Legio turned to Chaos. Over time, we realized that this device was used too often, so we decided to get rid of it. Our first effort at this was to reduce the size of the force that turned on the Legio. In this latest version, though, we've reduced that number even further and have underplayed it within the background by not even mentioning it. In this, we are mirroring the other official Chapters that don't mention their own traitors except where they are truly important to the Chapter's background (such as the Dark Angels). It's safe to say that the vast majority of Chapters have had individuals turn from the light of the Emperor to the false promises of Chaos throughout the Chapter's history, so there's no point in giving false emphasis to this reality. For all intents and purposes, a handful of Legio battle-brothers have turned to Chaos throughout the Chapter's history. The Legio groups them with the other Chaos Space Marines (traitors all) and hunts them down like the others.

Another significant change was the Legio's relationship with the Inquisition. Our original incarnation had the Legio aligned with the Ordo Hereticus because that was an appropriate opening. With the revised history of the Adepta Sororitas and their newfound role as the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Hereticus as given in Codex: Witch Hunters, however, we've had to readdress this. To that end, we've almost totally removed the Inquisition's role and the Legio's relationship with the Inquisition. We still have ties with some Inquisitors, but we are not a Chamber Militant of any Ordo of the Inquisition. Instead, the Legio is a construct of the various Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes - a sort of internal policing and diplomatic force that seeks to maintain the bonds of brotherhood between the various Chapters.

We removed the various mentions of major official game world events such as the Badab War and the Third War for Armageddon. This was done for simplicity.

We've also removed the rules we had (which were based on the 3rd edition rules). We'll provide some rules later.

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#3
Allerka

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Quick note, I noticed under "Guidelines for Creating B&C Personas" that it mentions "Within the Legio it's possible to have a Chaplain that used to be a Space Wolf (instead of making him a Wolf Priest), a Librarian from the Black Templars, etc." I just wanted to point out that the Black Templars have no Librarians. :ph34r:

#4
UltimateJake

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Quick note, I noticed under "Guidelines for Creating B&C Personas" that it mentions "Within the Legio it's possible to have a Chaplain that used to be a Space Wolf (instead of making him a Wolf Priest), a Librarian from the Black Templars, etc." I just wanted to point out that the Black Templars have no Librarians. :ph34r:


I think the article means that Black Templars hand over psychich recruits to be trained as Librarions and kept by the Legio. So he would technically be from the lack Templars. ^_^
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#5
Brother Tyler

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UltimateJake got it right.

Basically, it would be exceedingly rare for any Chapter to second any of their specialists (Apothecaries, Chaplains, Librarians, Techmarines) to the Legio. So the Legio gets most of its Librarians from other institutions within the Imperium, including those Chapters like the Black Templars that don't allow psykers within their ranks. So our proposition is that the Black Templars gives its aspirants that are found to have psyker potential to the Legio.

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#6
Argon

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Quick note, I noticed under "Guidelines for Creating B&C Personas" that it mentions "Within the Legio it's possible to have a Chaplain that used to be a Space Wolf (instead of making him a Wolf Priest), a Librarian from the Black Templars, etc." I just wanted to point out that the Black Templars have no Librarians. ;)


I think the article means that Black Templars hand over psychich recruits to be trained as Librarions and kept by the Legio. So he would technically be from the lack Templars. ;)


IIRC, that's how it was in the original IA. All the psykers the Templars found went to the Legio.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Brother Tyler.

Edited by Argon, 27 December 2009 - 10:20 PM.

QUOTE (1000heathens @ Sep 8 2010, 07:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
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#7
UltimateJake

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UltimateJake got it right.

Basically, it would be exceedingly rare for any Chapter to second any of their specialists (Apothecaries, Chaplains, Librarians, Techmarines) to the Legio. So the Legio gets most of its Librarians from other institutions within the Imperium, including those Chapters like the Black Templars that don't allow psykers within their ranks. So our proposition is that the Black Templars gives its aspirants that are found to have psyker potential to the Legio.


Yay! I got it right. I think I deserve an internet cookie if i do say so myself.

And I must say good work to all the people who worked on the Legio's fluff.
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#8
pueriexdeus

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UltimateJake got it right.

Basically, it would be exceedingly rare for any Chapter to second any of their specialists (Apothecaries, Chaplains, Librarians, Techmarines) to the Legio. So the Legio gets most of its Librarians from other institutions within the Imperium, including those Chapters like the Black Templars that don't allow psykers within their ranks. So our proposition is that the Black Templars gives its aspirants that are found to have psyker potential to the Legio.


OK, so if few chapters are seconding their Chaplains, Apothecaries, or Techmarines to the Leigo. Where do they come from, I am sure that the Leigo does recruit aspirants from some place to fill its ranks, but that also brings up several other questions.

Are the aforementioned specialists only drawn from purebred Leigo, or are they developed from the seconded Chapter members? This thread does make mention of seconded Chapter members filling specialist positions, ("a Chaplain that used to be a Space Wolf'), This question applies to higher ranking Leigo SM's also, (the Chief Librarian, Reclusiarch, Master of the Forge, and Chief Apothecary), etc.

And that bring up another question? What is the ratio of purebred Leigo, compared to seconded Chapter members? Leigo fluff relates to the Three Great Companies each with lesser companies, would imply a possible C:SM cap of 1000 SM's +/-. With that said we would need 500+ Chapters each giving up two SM's to the Leigo.

OOh, OOh another Q: What heraldry would a purebred Leigo wear on his right shoulder pad?

OK, I'm done stirring up the mud.

The outcome of these questions will then pose the final questions importance. Who is watching the Leigo?

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#9
utilityzero

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nearly all members of the legio are seconded from other chapters as full battle brothers. some of those will then be selected by the legio for training as apothecaries, techmarines or chaplains. for librarians, they have to start from scratch it seems.

still there are no "purebred" legio aspirants as i understand it, because even when they implant an aspirant with gene-seed it comes from a member of another chapter through the round-about route of the adeptus mechanicus. so even if they get an aspirant with psychic potential and then implant him with gene-seed they got from the mechanicus, he would be considered a member of his original parent chapter. this is how i read it anyway.

i have a question though, is the legio a chapter of 1000 marines? or is it not bound by the codex astartes?
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#10
pueriexdeus

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nearly all members of the legio are seconded from other chapters as full battle brothers. some of those will then be selected by the legio for training as apothecaries, techmarines or chaplains. for librarians, they have to start from scratch it seems.

still there are no "purebred" legio aspirants as i understand it, because even when they implant an aspirant with gene-seed it comes from a member of another chapter through the round-about route of the adeptus mechanicus. so even if they get an aspirant with psychic potential and then implant him with gene-seed they got from the mechanicus, he would be considered a member of his original parent chapter. this is how i read it anyway.

i have a question though, is the legio a chapter of 1000 marines? or is it not bound by the codex astartes?


Crunching the #'s brings up (if the Legio is Codex 1000) a 28 SM tithe to the Legio from the existing (C:SM V.5) 37 Chapters. Not an unreasonable number.

But my question still stand Re; purebred Leigo, the Librarians. Yep I understand the the Libbies will get Gene Seed from some chapter, but that does not mean the Libbie is from said chapter. I think I answered my own question. Libbie will wear the Librarians marking on the right shoulder pad. And when he dies said GS will be returned to the parent chapter.

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#11
The Nephilim

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For B) and giggles, can you make the fluff for traitor Legio available? Maybe make a seperate Index: Traitoris for them? I'm very interested in hearing about the schism.

Edited by The Nephilim, 12 February 2010 - 08:41 PM.

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#12
Brother Tyler

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OK, so if few chapters are seconding their Chaplains, Apothecaries, or Techmarines to the Leigo. Where do they come from, I am sure that the Leigo does recruit aspirants from some place to fill its ranks, but that also brings up several other questions.

Are the aforementioned specialists only drawn from purebred Leigo, or are they developed from the seconded Chapter members? This thread does make mention of seconded Chapter members filling specialist positions, ("a Chaplain that used to be a Space Wolf'), This question applies to higher ranking Leigo SM's also, (the Chief Librarian, Reclusiarch, Master of the Forge, and Chief Apothecary), etc.

And that bring up another question? What is the ratio of purebred Leigo, compared to seconded Chapter members? Leigo fluff relates to the Three Great Companies each with lesser companies, would imply a possible C:SM cap of 1000 SM's +/-. With that said we would need 500+ Chapters each giving up two SM's to the Leigo.

nearly all members of the legio are seconded from other chapters as full battle brothers. some of those will then be selected by the legio for training as apothecaries, techmarines or chaplains. for librarians, they have to start from scratch it seems.

This is actually a problem area for the Legio and we really painted ourselves into a corner. It is definitely problematic, so we tend to avoid delving too far into it in order to avoid problems. However, since the question has been asked, I'll try to answer as accurately as possible.

Sometimes, very rarely, a Chapter might send one of its specialists to the Legio. This is only likely to happen when two conditions exist. First, the Chapter must have sufficient numbers of that type of specialist to afford losing one to the Legio. Second, there must be a specialist that meets whatever criteria the Chapter has for selecting battle-brothers for the Legio.

What you're more likely to find is a battle-brother that has potential in a specialty, but whose potential hasn't yet been identified by the Chapter. This isn't likely with psykers, so really only applies to the Techmarines and Apothecaries (who must have an aptitude) or Chaplains (who need only zeal and the intellect to learn and administer the Chapter's rites). The majority of Legio battle-brother specialists fall into this grouping.

Like I said earlier, all of this is really "iffy" and problematic in terms of meshing with game background, but the basics of the Legio forced us to adopt a few things.

still there are no "purebred" legio aspirants as i understand it, because even when they implant an aspirant with gene-seed it comes from a member of another chapter through the round-about route of the adeptus mechanicus. so even if they get an aspirant with psychic potential and then implant him with gene-seed they got from the mechanicus, he would be considered a member of his original parent chapter. this is how i read it anyway.

At one point the fluff mentioned the so-called "purebred" Legio battle-brothers, and though the current fluff doesn't focus on these, we probably still have them. These battle-brothers will be created from aspirants drawn from a Legio recruiting world (and we've never gone into these) and will have some Chapter's gene-seed implanted into them. Yes, they would be descended from a Primarch and the Chapter from whence the gene-seed was drawn, but they wouldn't be "of" the Chapter since they never went through the initiation rites of the Chapter. Still, if the Chapter's gene-seed includes any mutations/aberrations, they will inherit them and will be identifiable as bearing some family of gene-seed. An easy example of this would be the Blood Angels. If Blood Angels gene-seed were ever used to create a purebred Legio battle-brother, the Chapter's genetic curse would be inherited. Since the Adeptus Mechanicus actually controls which gene-seed the Legio uses for its purebred battle-brothers, it's likely that the gene-seed of Roboute Guilliman and a handful of others is favored over those that have demonstrated some problems.

An example of a Chapter whose most noteworthy characteristics wouldn't be inherited by a purebred Legio battle-brother is the Exorcists. The key distinguishing element of that Chapter is the results of the temporary daemonic possession/exorcism ritual that the battle-brothers of the Chapter undergo. If the gene-seed of the Exorcists were used in a purebred Legio battle-brother, they wouldn't inherit whatever abilities Exorcists have since they wouldn't be put through the ritual.

But my question still stand Re; purebred Leigo, the Librarians. Yep I understand the the Libbies will get Gene Seed from some chapter, but that does not mean the Libbie is from said chapter. I think I answered my own question. Libbie will wear the Librarians marking on the right shoulder pad. And when he dies said GS will be returned to the parent chapter.

Now Librarians are another aspect of the stuff I discussed above. Psyker potential is likely identified very early in an aspirant's screening and initiation processes. Unless a Chapter has a surplus of Librarians, donating a psyker to the Legio is out of the question. The exception to this would be Chapters that don't want psykers within the ranks (the Black Templars are the only Chapter we know of that falls into this category, though there might be a few others). We've written in information that such Chapters are known to donate these unwanted psykers to the Legio, hence the potential for a Legio battle-brother to be from the Black Templars. The rest of the Legio's Librarians, however, are assumed to be "purebred". For these, we assume that the Black Ships identify psykers with the potential to become Adeptus Astartes Librarians and then send those candidates to the Legio. Where their gene-seed comes from is unknown, and we won't even try to get that specific. Suffice to say that we expect the majority of the Legio's psykers to be purebred.

OOh, OOh another Q: What heraldry would a purebred Leigo wear on his right shoulder pad?

Since the vast majority of purebred Legio battle-brothers are specialists, we assume that they bear the symbols of their specialty upon their right shoulder pads (e.g., horned skull for Librarians, cog and skull for Techmarines, etc.).

i have a question though, is the legio a chapter of 1000 marines? or is it not bound by the codex astartes?

We haven't established the actual size of the Legio and don't intend to. We assume that it is around 1,000 battle-brothers, but don't see any need to be specific.

For ;) and giggles, can you make the fluff for traitor Legio available? Maybe make a seperate Index: Traitoris for them? I'm very interested in hearing about the schism.

We have some story arcs planned to describe the Legio's renegades/schism, but we've really tried to downplay this whole thing. In fact, fixing the schism was one of the key goals in the revisions we made. When we initially conceived of the schism, it was intended to allow for our members that play Chaos Space Marines to have their own Legio character. What we quickly realized was that we'd taken it too far, making the schism much more prominent than it should have been. When you look at other Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes, pretty much all of them have battle-brothers that have turned their backs on their oaths and have gone renegade. The vast majority of these Chapters, though, don't really discuss this fact. The only times such things are discussed are when they are central to the background of the Chapter (i.e., the Unforgiven) or when it is important to the story being told (i.e., the Space Wolves that joined Huron Blackheart's Red Corsairs, the renegades in Dead Sky, Black Sun, etc.). For the most part, though, it is understood that a Chapter has some battle-brothers that have gone renegade at one or more points during the Chapter's existence. Also, we wanted to remove the sensationalism that surrounded efforts to define the Legio's renegades. For our purposes, Legio renegades fall into the same categories as other renegades. The typical representation might be anything from Codex: Chaos Space Marines.

The most important thing to remember about the Legio's renegades, though, is the fact that one of the Legio's missions is to police the ranks of the Adeptus Astartes, keeping them all in line (insofar as a Chapter might do so, which is relatively difficult since the Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes are really autonomous). So it's ironic when the Legio has battle-brothers that go traitor. It's like an Internal Affairs police officer falling to corruption.

Expect to see the "official" material on the Legio's renegade battle-brothers and the schism at some time in the future.

Who is watching the Leigo?

:)

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#13
pueriexdeus

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Brother Tyler; Great information on some of the what iffys surrounding the Leigo, now I've got to find a suitable SM figure to second to the Leigo.

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#14
Walter Payton

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I'm loving it too. Would it be too much to ask for the B&C to do a sort of Anti-Legio, for all the Chaoticians out there? Something like the Legio Bolter and Daemonsword, formed in response to the Legio?

"Never die easy."


#15
Brother Tyler

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No, there will be no anti-Legio. The traitors from the Legio are traitors like any other Chaos Space Marines, using Codex: Chaos Space Marines (for better or for worse) for their rules. The stories on the Legio renegades in what is known as "The Schism" will be published at a later date. There may have been renegades in ones and twos throughout the rest of the Chapter's history, but none of these were significant in and of themselves.

Again, this is one of the key things we wanted to address with the revision. We made way too much of the renegades in earlier versions, leading to a lot of wild ideas. We really needed to rein the renegades in as they'd reached the level of being a cliche. The basic premise of the Legio is problematic enough without throwing in any superfluous plot devices that don't add to the value of the background.

My suggestion is to look to the Red Corsairs as the antithesis of the Legio (and we've already developed plot lines in that direction).

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#16
Walter Payton

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My suggestion is to look to the Red Corsairs as the antithesis of the Legio (and we've already developed plot lines in that direction).


As ever, wiser heads than my own make better plans. Well done.

"Never die easy."


#17
Dark Apostle Thirst

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Question: does a codicer have to have a librarian? Like say Octavulg... would he have to make a Librarian model for his avatar?

#18
Brother Tyler

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No, members are not tied to any B&C board functions. The only limitations are that the senior officers (Captains, Chief Librarian, Master of the Forge, Chief Apothecary, Reclusiarch/Master of Sanctity) are off limits.

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#19
Dark Apostle Thirst

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No, members are not tied to any B&C board functions. The only limitations are that the senior officers (Captains, Chief Librarian, Master of the Forge, Chief Apothecary, Reclusiarch/Master of Sanctity) are off limits.


So, I could make mine a chaplain but not Master of Sanctity?

Also, can we make two, one as a nemesis as to the other (if one is loyal and one is not so loyal).

#20
Brother Tyler

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Sure, "rank and file" officers (i.e., those not in charge of the specialist order) are free game.

You can make as many Legio characters as you want. However, the intent is that each member create only one character that they identify with as "their" Legio persona (i.e., their Legio alter ego).

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#21
Solomon de Gravier

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But with 46220 members of the B&C that kinds of deletes the '10000 Astartes' all on it's own!

:ph34r: Ninja say: Legio delete point of Astartes! :ph34r:

;)
<-- i'm going to throw the book at you. haha ha!
Ah, signatures. What use really is a signature but a form of distacting it's reader so that they do not fully read the posts of the member whose signature is distracting them therefore creating a vicious circle of misunderstanding wherein none have any clue about the subject of which they are reading prompting them to post stupid comments with no reference whatsoever to the original post. Such ignorance should be avoided lest we fall into a period of decay where no good comment can be found. Such an occassion could tear this very forum from it's boundries and ...hang on, get back to reading my post!

#22
Brother Tyler

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But with 46220 members of the B&C that kinds of deletes the '10000 Astartes' all on it's own!

:ph34r: Ninja say: Legio delete point of Astartes! :ph34r:

:RTBBB:
<-- i'm going to throw the book at you. haha ha!

Unless you consider the fact that the Legio has been around since the days following the Age of Apostasy, so all of the B&C members that choose to have a Legio B&C persona don't necessarily exist in the current date. :lol:

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#23
Dark Apostle Thirst

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Sure, "rank and file" officers (i.e., those not in charge of the specialist order) are free game.

You can make as many Legio characters as you want. However, the intent is that each member create only one character that they identify with as "their" Legio persona (i.e., their Legio alter ego).


That's fine; I was intending for one to be Dark Apostle Thirst and the other his nemisis anyways.

#24
Verythrax Draconis

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It would be too naive to suggest that those specialists could be something developed inside the Legio?

Let's put Librarians and Techmarines aside a bit and concentrate on apotecaries and chaplains. Those positions could be something that the SM earned inside the legion. On his original chapter he could not being considered an appropriate candidate for those; the chapter could have more talented personnel available, or his aptitude had simply passed unnoticed. It would be the responsability of the Chief Apotecary and the Reclusiarchy (as other apocs and chappies as well) keep an eye open and do the recruiting, to keep the estabilished quotas filled.

This could work with techmarines as well. The legio could send their own marines to be trained in Mars as well, right?

For librarians, maybe the Leio could force some quotas onto the affiliated chapters - the Legio exists for their own good, right? So maybe as part of the agreement, the chapters would have a certain quota of marines to supply to the Legio by century or something. This quota could define the number of with kind of soldier is needed - the quotas could be tailored for each chapter, orf course. Smaller chapters donate less, BTs don't have librarias to donate, BAs could donate more assault marines, and so on.

#25
pueriexdeus

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It would be too naive to suggest that those specialists could be something developed inside the Legio?

Let's put Librarians and Techmarines aside a bit and concentrate on apotecaries and chaplains. Those positions could be something that the SM earned inside the legion. On his original chapter he could not being considered an appropriate candidate for those; the chapter could have more talented personnel available, or his aptitude had simply passed unnoticed. It would be the responsability of the Chief Apotecary and the Reclusiarchy (as other apocs and chappies as well) keep an eye open and do the recruiting, to keep the estabilished quotas filled.

This could work with techmarines as well. The legio could send their own marines to be trained in Mars as well, right?

For librarians, maybe the Leio could force some quotas onto the affiliated chapters - the Legio exists for their own good, right? So maybe as part of the agreement, the chapters would have a certain quota of marines to supply to the Legio by century or something. This quota could define the number of with kind of soldier is needed - the quotas could be tailored for each chapter, orf course. Smaller chapters donate less, BTs don't have librarias to donate, BAs could donate more assault marines, and so on.


I understand your concept of requesting from the other Chapters to fill the ranks of specific specialists. Wont happen though.

It would be an operational security failure on the Leigo. Not one Chapter will ever admit to having a weakness in it's structure.

And you are right, the Chapters donating troops will of course be unique to their particular fighting style.

We'll just have to work with what we have. And the back room negotiations might get some appropriate recruits to eventually fill the slots available.

Edited by pueriexdeus, 20 February 2010 - 10:37 AM.

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