Grand Master Tyrak Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 My ideas about Fallen Grey Knights are not ridiculous. I fail to see what is ridiculous about Chaos looting/copying armour and weapons. Do the Black Legion not have Techmarines? Did someone spike my drink? I'm seeing two ideas here, not one. :mellow: Precisely. However, in arguing against Fallen Sisters of Battle, you are also defining something ambiguous unambiguously. Unless you feel the ambiguity you are defining to be unambiguous, in which case you view the OP to be defining an unambiguity unambiguously in a direction which forces it to be an ambiguity. Comprende? The problem with the Sisters (and the Grey Knights) is that it's a Yes/No situation. There either is only one fallen Sister or there isn't. There isn't a gap in the middle where a compromise could be located. To get round this, we follow the standard practice of a judge in a similar legal situation - fudge it. That's where all these alternate explanations come from that allow Chaos Sisters without actually answering the question as to whether or not there has only been one Fallen Sister. A secret sect created by the Wordbearers that bears similarity to the SoB is perfectly reasonable and justifiable, as is any Chaos Cult in general. But it is not the same consideration as the question of the post. A Chaos cult formed in particular manner, even trained to masquerade as SoB, are not fallen sisters. The rogue regiment or such led by one or a few fallen sisters, is an awesome idea. What I do have a problem with is people taking grey areas of fluff, interpreting them how they want, and then holding that it must hold true for the universe as a whole. How did you do that in such a short way? ;) Oh well, QFT. ;) Sisters are more devoted than Space Marines. As a matter of uncontested fact, most SM chapters are actually heretics. (Uncontested, not without exception). This applies only to The Emperor as "The God Emperor of Mankind," not to devotion to The Emperor in general. How do you figure? The Emperor spoke against pantheons and religions frivolity. The Space Marines remember this. The High Lords of Terra allowed the Ecclesiarchy to form and remain (and in my opinion, as a form of control). The Emperor attempted to put a stop to the Imperial Cult before he got himself stabbed. The Emperor isn't a god. He is a bad ass, don't get me wrong, but a god he is not. So all that aside, the Space Marines are heretics for following what they were taught? Yes, they are heretics for following what they were taught. The Ecclesiarchy define that as heresy (even though it's tolerated), and their definition in the only one currently being enforced. That doesn't make the Space Marines "true" heretics, but it makes them heretics by the only current Imperial Dictionary definition. You'd have to get the Emperor up off the Throne to get another definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Orlock Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Grand Master Tyrak, I hereby claim the sentiments within the above to deploy as a quotation from Eddie Orlock whenever I see something I do not like before you can. Double-Dibs Good sir, do not, under any circumstances, take my above post as an endorsement of your foul opinions over the good Tyraks. Furthermore, such epistles only belong in the threads they are written for, and should such a post be quoted wholesale it could be classed against the forum rules dealing with remaining on topic and the independantness of threads. It is against forum policy for a vendetta to carry across outside of its thread of origin. Epistle in question fully endorses a fraters right to his own opinions and by corollary his prerogative to heap scorn on those things he finds scorn worthy and praise on those things he finds praiseworthy. With regard to ambiguity, again by this doctrine, it is up to the peers to decide if something is ambiguous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 My ideas about Fallen Grey Knights are not ridiculous. I fail to see what is ridiculous about Chaos looting/copying armour and weapons. Do the Black Legion not have Techmarines? Did someone spike my drink? I'm seeing two ideas here, not one. ;) Precisely. However, in arguing against Fallen Sisters of Battle, you are also defining something ambiguous unambiguously. Unless you feel the ambiguity you are defining to be unambiguous, in which case you view the OP to be defining an unambiguity unambiguously in a direction which forces it to be an ambiguity. Comprende? The problem with the Sisters (and the Grey Knights) is that it's a Yes/No situation. There either is only one fallen Sister or there isn't. There isn't a gap in the middle where a compromise could be located. To get round this, we follow the standard practice of a judge in a similar legal situation - fudge it. That's where all these alternate explanations come from that allow Chaos Sisters without actually answering the question as to whether or not there has only been one Fallen Sister. There are not two ideas. I simply pointed out that the fact that recorded is an ambiguous term in this instance, and that it does not rule out the possibility. It is not my idea, it is our language. I am not saying that I endorse it, because I do not. 'Tis a silly idea, especially as there are plenty of fluff ways that it can still happen without treading on everyones toes.. However, I am pointing out that sometimes GW deliberately make things not as clear-cut as we would all love them to be. Secondly, there is a gap in the middle: daemonic possesion, but that is just my ingrained pedantry :D @Eddie Orlock I was more mocking the fact that Tyrak always uses your post, not saying that you seem to agree with me. Tyrak and I seem to have the same opinions, just different ideas about how universally to apply them. I do not have a 'vendetta' against Tyrak, because I really really don't. It is more that we seem to frequent the same forums, so we end up having the same disagreement time after time. I truly value his opinions, but I reserve the right to disagree with them. http://www.faqs.org/photo-dict/photofiles/list/2981/3996olive_branch.jpg It repeat my offer of agreeing to disagree. I seem to have started this argument, so why don't we all end it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine God Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 I'm pretty sure a well painted army: http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/6955/5sisters16pe.jpg Will never get you blindsided! Have FUN! At least you'll get to play it! as opposed to a Squat Army. Hmm Squat SOB??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Can a single squad of Sisters destroy a Greater Daemon. Grey Knights are the holiest warriors out there. Minor daemons around the Grey Knights are almost instantly banished and even for some of the Greater Daemons to be around Grey Knight armor is to be nothing but pain to them. A single squad of Grey Knights can crush a daemonic legion with ease. Sisters of Battle aren't that great when you think about it... My Sisters Rhino has destroyed a greater daemon before now. (Also, the Grey Knights are HINTED at having the Emperor provide their gene-seed, but this is not confirmed.) Considering that all Space Marines are based on twenty-one Primarchs, and all Primarchs are based on the Emperor's own genes (yeesh, can you believe the EGO of that guy?), I think it's safe to say that all Marines have been hinted (just hinted, mind you!) the Emperor provided their gene-seed. After all, he's the one who supposedly invented the damn thing in the first place. Personally, I don't see a reason why Grey Knights falling to Chaos is any more or less ridiculous than Sisters. They both get an innate "awesomeness" save against Psychic Powers (the purest manifestation of chaos possible for a non-daemon), as far as I know. Unfortunately for our side, the Faithful argument can be shattered by one line: "Space Marines are just so faithful that their Faith Powers are on all the time". (Never mind the fact that they're so arrogant that their Shield of Faith fails). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltimateJake Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 The Primarchs are based on the Emperor's genes, but I am pretty sure they all inheritted different aspects of his personality or something like that. Saying Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle are equal is like saying Space Marines and Imperial Guard are equal. In fluff a single...single...I repeat a single squad of Grey Knights can destroy minor daemonic legions. Sisters of Battle do what? Whine and tell people to worship the Emperor? Considering traitors are everywhere...someone's not doing a agood job. :P But, it seems to me that daemons are rare...so someone must be more successful. :tu: And the Grey Knights have a 100% gene-seed of the Emperor if I am not mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hajime Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 The Primarchs are based on the Emperor's genes, but I am pretty sure they all inheritted different aspects of his personality or something like that. Saying Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle are equal is like saying Space Marines and Imperial Guard are equal. In fluff a single...single...I repeat a single squad of Grey Knights can destroy minor daemonic legions. Sisters of Battle do what? Whine and tell people to worship the Emperor? Considering traitors are everywhere...someone's not doing a agood job. :P But, it seems to me that daemons are rare...so someone must be more successful. :) And the Grey Knights have a 100% gene-seed of the Emperor if I am not mistaken. Is there some Ironic about a Alpha Legion arguing about how Grey knights are superior. In any case the Job of the Sisters isn't to enforce the Worship of the Emperor is actaully to protect pilgrims and Cathedrals, Shrines and points of Piety across the Empire of Humanity. They are generally very good at that. Yes they get borroed by Members of the Inquisition's Ordos on several occations. In that they have Proved to be with one exception to be unshakable in their faith save once [in Canon]. Can the distroy legion of demons in Canon? no, but Please provide me with the page number where the Gray night take a legion with a single squad. The Big Reason Black library isn't Canon sourse is because in a Plot of an author anything is possible, a Canoness can slay a Bloodthirster, A Guardsman can take out a Demon Prince, A single Commasar can rally an entire regiment with just his voice, Etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Sisters of Battle do what? Whine and tell people to worship the Emperor? Considering traitors are everywhere...someone's not doing a agood job. :) Well, they are playing a never-ending round of galactic whack-a-mole with limited resources. I'd say they're doing a pretty good job. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltimateJake Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Sisters of Battle do what? Whine and tell people to worship the Emperor? Considering traitors are everywhere...someone's not doing a agood job. :) Well, they are playing a never-ending round of galactic whack-a-mole with limited resources. I'd say they're doing a pretty good job. ;) Shhhh! Your ruining my Alpha Legion Propaganda. http://i47.tinypic.com/6hp6qs.jpg And FYI I fight for the Emperor too. Check out my DIY chapters. B) Selfless plug, I know. And to Captain Hajme: Grey Knights in fluff hack through daemons like butter. Minor daemons get banished just by the sheer holiness of there armor alone. It puts daemons in pain just to be around them. And this is just one Grey Knight were talking about. So they could easily take on a daemonic legion and I am sure in some sources they have...just need to check those sources. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 My canoness can slay bloodthirsters... Seems to be having trouble with Venerable Dreadnoughts, though. Must be 'cause Strength Seven beats T6 any day, but AV12, reroll damage... Saying that Sisters are there to whine and enforce Ecclesiastical power is a little like saying that Grey Knights are there to step on Nurglings, though. A squad of Grey Knights can wipe out an incursion of daemons... but you need a mission of Sisters to take care of the cultists afterwards. (Besides, if you want to take Black Library into account, in the novel "Grey Knights", Alaric or whatever his name is is scared spitless by the Sisters during the final battle.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hajime Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Sisters of Battle do what? Whine and tell people to worship the Emperor? Considering traitors are everywhere...someone's not doing a agood job. :) Well, they are playing a never-ending round of galactic whack-a-mole with limited resources. I'd say they're doing a pretty good job. ;) Shhhh! Your ruining my Alpha Legion Propaganda. http://i47.tinypic.com/6hp6qs.jpg And FYI I fight for the Emperor too. Check out my DIY chapters. :) Selfless plug, I know. And to Captain Hajme: Grey Knights in fluff hack through daemons like butter. Minor daemons get banished just by the sheer holiness of there armor alone. It puts daemons in pain just to be around them. And this is just one Grey Knight were talking about. So they could easily take on a daemonic legion and I am sure in some sources they have...just need to check those sources. ;) At least give me book titles if you will not give me Page numbers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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