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Index Astartes: Hounds of the Hunt

Loyalist Native American Theme Madwolf Shadowmane cursed founding

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#26
Madwolf Shadowmane

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expanded the combat doctrine and organization section. Still working out some fluff on the beliefs. Comments welcome

IA: Hounds of the Hunt          Working on the Hunt (W.I.P.)          The Hunt Begins...(Finished Minis)          IA: Lords of Dusk          Octaguide 2.0

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#27
voi shet magir

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I get what you're trying, I really do. You can do it, but you need to be more subtle. Do not have freakin bullet points that explain how instead of bloodclaws they have reavers. Like so:

Shadow Hunt commanders punish enemy weaknesses with brutal infantry assaults headed by the Chapter's bloodthirsty novices, all eager to cut their teeth and prove their worthiness in the thickest fighting. So reckless are the younger brothers that they are the only marines to equip with jump packs, and crash unsupported into their unsuspecting foes.

So, it is a little less boring and obvious than the list of substitutions that you have now. It is also some purple as prince prose, but that is appropriate, considering how garish that color scheme is. Tone down the picture, amp up the words.

#28
Madwolf Shadowmane

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Everything tweaked a little more added to Beliefs, Combat Doctrine, Organization, and Gene-seed. Comments welcome. I do know I need to add some flair to some of these entries. Thank you for your time.

IA: Hounds of the Hunt          Working on the Hunt (W.I.P.)          The Hunt Begins...(Finished Minis)          IA: Lords of Dusk          Octaguide 2.0

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#29
NightrawenII

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*sigh*
First:

Their gene-seed seems to have genetic similarities to all nine loyalist legions.

I beg to delete this line. What Grey Hunter Ydalir said. + We actually don't know, HOW the gene-seed difference from legion to legion, so it's possible that there is not a "visible" distinction between DA and UM zygote.

It is thought by some in the Adeptus Administratum, that they were formed in either the second or third founding. To date the Mechanicus has been unable to identify the origins of their gene-seed.

Damn you, Grey Hunter Ydalir! You take words from my mouth!

There also seems to have been a gene-seed mutation early in the history of the Chapter, this mutation is stable, but its impact on the physiology of the space marines is unconfirmed. The Shadow Hunt gene-seed stock has been isolated and placed in stasis.

Redundant. If you have nothing to say about it, then don't say it at all.

Once a verdant jungle world, the flora and fauna was burned to ash when the Dark Hound crashed into its surface. The blast of the impact vaporized the atmosphere of the planet. The crash site of the once majestic battle barge is where they built their fortress-monastery. From the wreckage they began the construction.

Debatable, there is another occasion in official material, where the Battle Ship crashed on the surface of planet. Nothing happened at all.

The Shadow Hunt is a non-codex chapter. The chapter is composed of six companies called Clans. Each clan has a specific combat role. The High Wolf Clan is the clan of the Hunt Chief and contains the Society Chiefs. They act as a reserve company entering battle where they can make the biggest impact. The White Wolf Clan is composed of the most veteran troops in the Chapter. They are shock troops used to overwhelm an objective with extreme force. The Twilight Wolf Clan is the space faring unit of the chapter. They specialize in ship to ship fighting. The Striking Wolf Clan is the masters of planet strikes. They deploy from drop pods and are the first to attack in planetary assaults. The Guardian Wolf Clan is the defense specialists. They are responsible for the security of the Shadow Realm. The Running Wolf Clan is the armored spearhead of the chapter. They break sieges and secure all hardened objectives.

So what happen, when the Twilight Wolf Clan make a planetstrike or when The Striking Wolf Clan need to besiege enemy or... or when the Guardian Wolf Clan is called to war etc. etc.
The Space marines don't specialize or don't have specialists per se. Thats the hallmark of being Space Marine. :) But they often prefer some kind of weaponry, wargear or tactic. La nuance in the wording. :)


Second:

T
here are no great sagas about the Shadow Hunt, they are not known throughout the Imperium. They have minimal contact with the vast assets of the Imperium, due in part to their secretive nature and due to the apathy of the grand Imperial machine.

Have you heard about Vorpal Swords, Knights of Raven, Sons of Orar, Rampagers, Death Falcons, Steel Cobras, Crimson Castellans, Dragon Lords? Guess why? :) It also contradicts with the following sentence about Inquisiton and Admech investigations.

The Shadow Hunt dangles the promise of continued trading before the Mechanium to keep them from demanding the full tithe of the Chapters gene-seed.

There isn't precendent in official background, so it's debatable if the Admech would agree with such treaty, especialy given your gene-seed problems.

The Inquisition and the Mechanium analyzed the remains of a fallen Huntsman that was recovered from a recent conflict. They discovered that most of the extra organs possessed by a normal Space Marine are present and functioning normally. The exceptions were Occulobe, which is over developed; the Sus-an Membrane, which appears to be atrophied and may not function as normal; the Betcher’s gland, which is completely absent and may have never have been implanted in this subject; and lastly the Progenoids seem more robust, they are surrounded by extra tissue which may be for protection or some unknown function. It has been determined through this covert examination and repeated review of their gene-seed it appears that there is some mutation to the Shadow Hunt gene-seed which appears stable, but the Inquisition maintains a clandestine vigil over the purity of this Chapter.

This belongs in the Gene-seed section.

Throughout the Chapter’s history, Clans have been destroyed to the last man while trying to reclaim their dead.

[sarcasm]Your Marines are very smart, are they?[/sarcasm]

The Weres abhor the sword. They treat all bladed weapons larger than a dagger as tainted and will not use them. They consider forging swords as heretical. The Shadow Hunt have reinforced this belief as their doctrine indicates that sword fighters meet as equals and they do not recognize any of their enemies as equals.

Why? Orks do use axes, so your Marines would not use axes while fighting with them? Chaos marines do use bolters, so your Marines would not use bolters while fighting with them? Do you see, at what I'm geting?

Under the New Moon, which happens once every 10 years, all twenty tribes of Weres gather for the festival of Remembrance. The Weres believe the veil between our world and the spirit realm thins. They believe the honored dead walk. The Shadow Hunt librarians have confirmed that this is not a Warp phenomenon. The Shadow Hunt does not follow this belief but have been reassured that none of the Chapter’s Officers have been able to contact the Sire on this holy night.

And the point of this is?

T
he Shadow Hunt favors close combat whenever possible. Each Clan specializes in a particular type of warfare, from an elite assault force to a mechanized spearhead.

All of the Clans are multi-task organizations that have a preference for specific types of missions. Each Clan is an independent battle force composed of several sub-units called Hunts. These units are tasked organized for the assigned mission.

Cotradiction, how could they specialize in one sentence and multi-task in the other? Also; Why they are organized like that?

Because of the location of their home world the Shadow Hunt has not been involved in any major engagements. Only pack sized forces have ventured beyond the space adjacent to their system.

So they fear to fight outside of their home-turf or what?

Organization

*snip*

To be honest, I hate this entire section. It doesn't say or explain anything important, you have just thrown some names and desctriptions there.

It may seem counterintuitive but in ancient warfare, fleeing from battle was usually a good way to get oneself killed.
~ Jeffrey R. Cox - Cascading Failure: The Roman Disaster at Adrianople AD 378

 

Give the peasants neither life nor death.

~ Tokugawa Ieyasu

 

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.

~ Blaise Pascal


#30
Madwolf Shadowmane

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Thank you for your comments. I am in the process of a major re-write. I'm removing some elements that don't work for me. I trying to figure out the best way to present my organization. I'm gonna include the Societies as it is a major aspect of my Chapter's character. But as to the actual Clans, should I list their make up or name the significant characters? Looking for some recommendation on this section. Thank you for your time.

IA: Hounds of the Hunt          Working on the Hunt (W.I.P.)          The Hunt Begins...(Finished Minis)          IA: Lords of Dusk          Octaguide 2.0

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#31
Madwolf Shadowmane

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The whole IA has undergone a rewrite. The organization section has been redone and more beliefs have been added. Comments welcome.

IA: Hounds of the Hunt          Working on the Hunt (W.I.P.)          The Hunt Begins...(Finished Minis)          IA: Lords of Dusk          Octaguide 2.0

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#32
Captain Juan Juarez

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Attitude towards the Space Wolves Chapter

- That still needs to go.. The Space Wolves bring over ten thousand years of almost unbroken glory and honour, not infamy.

Also, you're sticking with the individual Company names.. Why? One or two works, ten does not.. It's just clunky and "look at me".
" They made you to be untouched by God or mortal. As I cannot kill you, so I curse you, not with death but with life.

I curse you - with the pain of ten thousand days in the Dark Place, with the life's blood of a mage's sacrifice, with Death's authority held in my hands.

I curse you, and I strike your name from history, stripped of arrogance and pride, empty of the self you once knew, gutted of all you are. I take your name and all you have won by the strength of your hand. I curse you for eternity, to find only darkness where once you knew your own face.

And I dub you the Ragged Man."

#33
Madwolf Shadowmane

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Thank you for taking the time to comment. Should I assume that two problem points mean the rest is good? I'm keeping the Clan names, I'm just not telling you about them any more.

Edited by Madwolf Shadowmane, 10 April 2010 - 04:42 AM.

IA: Hounds of the Hunt          Working on the Hunt (W.I.P.)          The Hunt Begins...(Finished Minis)          IA: Lords of Dusk          Octaguide 2.0

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#34
Madwolf Shadowmane

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More comments welcome

IA: Hounds of the Hunt          Working on the Hunt (W.I.P.)          The Hunt Begins...(Finished Minis)          IA: Lords of Dusk          Octaguide 2.0

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#35
Madwolf Shadowmane

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Decided my Chapter needed a new name. Shadow Hunt didn't "feel" right and the Shadow part didn't fit with my color scheme. Have only had one comment since the rewrite, kinda hoping for more. Thank you for your time.

IA: Hounds of the Hunt          Working on the Hunt (W.I.P.)          The Hunt Begins...(Finished Minis)          IA: Lords of Dusk          Octaguide 2.0

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#36
Ace Debonair

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Apologies for not making a more detailed comment, but i haven't got time right this minute to scour this IA for mistakes.

The organisation section looks a lot better, though.

One question does occur to me, though. How can your chapter revere a sire who is lost in the warp but not dead and not know anything of their gene-line?
Keep up the good work, anyway. I'll look through again if I get more time.

#37
Madwolf Shadowmane

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One question does occur to me, though. How can your chapter revere a sire who is lost in the warp but not dead and not know anything of their gene-line?


They know the origin of their gene seed, they are very reluctant to share this information.

Thank you for the comments and please keep them coming.

IA: Hounds of the Hunt          Working on the Hunt (W.I.P.)          The Hunt Begins...(Finished Minis)          IA: Lords of Dusk          Octaguide 2.0

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#38
Ace Debonair

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One question does occur to me, though. How can your chapter revere a sire who is lost in the warp but not dead and not know anything of their gene-line?


They know the origin of their gene seed, they are very reluctant to share this information.

Thank you for the comments and please keep them coming.


Ah, nice. Perhaps you should add that to the geneseed section? It'll flesh it out and stop others from making the same assumptions. ^_^

#39
Captain Juan Juarez

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Sorry to be tacky - or am I? - but "Blood Moon..." makes me think of "Lady Time".
" They made you to be untouched by God or mortal. As I cannot kill you, so I curse you, not with death but with life.

I curse you - with the pain of ten thousand days in the Dark Place, with the life's blood of a mage's sacrifice, with Death's authority held in my hands.

I curse you, and I strike your name from history, stripped of arrogance and pride, empty of the self you once knew, gutted of all you are. I take your name and all you have won by the strength of your hand. I curse you for eternity, to find only darkness where once you knew your own face.

And I dub you the Ragged Man."

#40
Madwolf Shadowmane

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Ah, nice. Perhaps you should add that to the geneseed section? It'll flesh it out and stop others from making the same assumptions. biggrin.gif

The Chapter is tight-lipped on the origins of its gene-seed.

The second quote is the first sentence in the gene-seed section.

Sorry to be tacky - or am I? - but "Blood Moon..." makes me think of "Lady Time".


The other names I was thinking about were:

Hounds of the Hunt
Wolf Moon Hunt
The Feral Hunt
Lunar Hunt
Noble Hounds
Noble Hunt

IA: Hounds of the Hunt          Working on the Hunt (W.I.P.)          The Hunt Begins...(Finished Minis)          IA: Lords of Dusk          Octaguide 2.0

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#41
Ace Debonair

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Hounds of the Hunt isn't bad, to my mind. Fits the chapter quite well.
...You might want a second opinion, though. :lol:

#42
Madwolf Shadowmane

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decided to do a name change again (should be the last time). Hounds of the Hunt "feels" right and fits better. As always comments welcome.

IA: Hounds of the Hunt          Working on the Hunt (W.I.P.)          The Hunt Begins...(Finished Minis)          IA: Lords of Dusk          Octaguide 2.0

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#43
Madwolf Shadowmane

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I plan to add some more detail to the origins and organization section. I was wondering if there were any other sections I should focus on. Haven't gotten much feedback since the rewrite. Thank you for your time.

IA: Hounds of the Hunt          Working on the Hunt (W.I.P.)          The Hunt Begins...(Finished Minis)          IA: Lords of Dusk          Octaguide 2.0

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#44
Apothete

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Born of mystery, Hounds of the Hunt Chapter of Space Marines stand watch on the fringes of known space waiting...


Even if you intend to keep that quote as the header, it needs to be edited for grammar.

Equivocal results from genetic screening


I'm sorry, but this makes next to no sense.

The Adetpus Biologis is the one which provides your geneseed and thus would have records of what was used, barring some catastrophic loss of data or incredible age. Even past the point of creation, your Chapter will be tithing geneseed to the Mechanicus at regular intervals and this "secret" progenitor is going to be revealed by ones means or another. It's not as if they can't just compare the pattern to those which exist in the genebanks, which includes all of the Loyalist lines and - in some kind of time locked vault - even the Traitors.

The first reaction to finding out that a geneseed repeatedly tests as unrecognizable isn't going to be a ho-hum sort of lackadaisical waiting, it'll be demands for further samples, possible Inquisitorial scrutiny for unacceptable mutation, and perhaps even a purgation crusade by other Astartes.

presumed to be the Third founding


See above for generalities, below for specifics.

While the Imperium is vast, beureaucratic, autocratic, and generally a miserable place to be, the one thing that it generally isn't going to be lacking is information about the origins of Astartes Chapters, provided that the person who wants to know is sufficiently resourceful or powerful. The Adeptus Terra would have records of the orders whereby the Hounds were created, the Mechanicus and Munitorum would possess requisition, logistic, and disposition forms that show initial and subsequent allotments of material and wargear, along with the geneseed tithes and any later request for equipment. Somewhere in the system, a record will show if the Hunt ever claimed a planet and notified the Adeptus Terra of their stewardship.

Get where I'm going with this?

War Chief Madwolf Shadowmane


Not to make this a personal attack, but, well... Really?

I'm not exactly wild about the names of some of the Primarchs or Legions, but that's perhaps even worse than Ferrus Manus or the Ultramarines.

There are no great sagas about the Hounds of the Hunt, they are not widely known throughout the Imperium. They have had minimal contact with the vast assets of the Imperium, due in part to their reclusive nature and due to the apathy of the grand Imperial machine.


Generally speaking, even if for no other reason that because the Inquisition wants to make absolutely certain that there's not a future Horus Heresy brewing amongst the stars, the odds are pretty good that someone's paying attention. Even if it's only every couple of centuries, your Chapter has contact with the rest of the Imperium or else they're probably not receiving any of the material support that would allow them to remain in service.

The one exception is their regular trading with the Adeptus Mechanicus of the Forge world Urdesh. The Chapter has control of large quantities of rare chemical and mineral resources. They deliver these elements once every 25 years per their compact with the Mechanium. At these deliveries the Chapter representatives receive their allotment of new battle gear and supplies.


This reads like an attempt to namedrop a world made famous in the Gaunt's Ghosts series, especially since Urdesh was captured and then retaken in a completely different Segmentum. In addition, your Chapter appears to be fairly weak if they're having to barter resources and mining in exchange for something which is typically considered the duty of the Mechanicus. I could understand if they were making unusual requests and then offering something equally rare or valuable in exchange, but mining rights and some tankers just don't seem all that likely to be in the purview of the Astartes.

Why would your Chapter be in control of these resources in the first place, rather than allowing the Mechanicus to exploit them? Why would they do the mining and refining themselves instead of allowing the body which is generally responsible for these things to take care of it, especially if they aren't intending to make use of the material themselves? Also, why bother to ship things so far away and use a named Forgeworld instead of just playing off a minor, previous unnamed world of your own devising?

According to the earliest retrieved record, the Adeptus Administratum places their origins in the Third Founding. This assumption is based on a materials list from their departure for their newly assigned home world. Since the Mechanicus has been unable to genetically match their gene-seed zygotes, this has been unconfirmed. The only enlightenment they will provide is that their gene stock comes from the Sire.


Then they're Third Founding, since that's what the records say.

See my above comments for a response to the rest of this.

“…While in transit to the home world bestowed upon us we were attacked by a Dark Eldar pirate armada. We were 251 Hounds strong spread across: one Battle Barge, the Night Runner, and three Strike Cruisers; the Fatalstrike, the Heartblood, and the Hunt’s End against roughly 50 pirate vessels. The Hunt’s End was destroyed, but not before extracting a terrible toll on the xenos scum. The Sire and 83 of our brethren boarded the Dark Eldar flagship. The Sire saved us; he slew the Archon, sending the enemy fleet into disarray. Before the Sire could return to the Night Runner, the disabled pirate flagship transitioned abruptly into the Ether crippling his ship in its proximity.


The Eldar and Dark Eldar use archeotech pathways within the warp, which they refer to as the Webway. As far as we know, neither of the races possess or are willing to use technology that would allow direct travel through the immaterium, at least in part because Slaanesh is waiting to devour their souls. Though we don't have exact knowledge of how the ships enter or leave the Webway, it likely isn't instantaneous and thus interferes with your story.

In other words, this little vignette doesn't work.

Our Sire became lost to us trapped in the Warp. The Night Runner crashed on the third moon of Eametanene, Eemohone. Only two Hounds survived the crash without debilitating wounds. Of those two only I survive. In the wake of the battle, the Fatalstrike was mostly intact with 49 of the 53 Hounds who were carried onboard. The Heartblood had been critically damaged as the remnant of the pirate fleet fled the system and only carried three score minus one of the 74 brothers onboard. One hundred eight Hounds descended to our new home world, Eametanene, We were a Chapter on the brink of extinction with one fully functional Strike Cruiser.


I can't help but read this out loud in a droning, monotonous voice and a plodding pace.

That's because it adds nothing of value to the writeup and merely takes up space, since the mechanical details are less interesting than the effect of losing almost everything at the very beginning. I'm really hoping that I'm going to see some development later in the article that stems from this point, since you've made such a big deal about how they crashed and lost this and that. You're setting yourself up to go in a particular direction but, somehow, I doubt that I'll see it when I get there.

We collected the shells of our kin that barely clung to life. They would never fight for the Emperor again. The Sire’s gift was the ability to re-grow a removed Progenoid organ if the other is intact.


Why is this a gift of "The Sire" rather than the Emperor, or even their Primarch? The temporal leader of the Hunt has nothing to do with their geneseed or the modified physiology of an Astartes, so it makes no sense to idolize him over what amounts to the design put in place before even the Legions had been created.

What purpose does this serve? Are you going to make them blind worshippers of their own line, ignoring both the Imperial Cult and the usual development of Marine belief systems? How do they justify what, to many in both their cousin Chapters and the Ecclesiarchy, would be a very special kind of heresy?

A score plus six of our half-dead comrades were found and to our shame we used them to grow Progenoid organs for 115 years before we gave them the Emperor’s release. Those damaged brothers served well and we were returned to fighting strength. As a mark of our guilt we created the Sire’s Vault to chronicle the exploits of those who have honored our Chapter.


Unless your Chapter has stumbled across a process which the rest of the Imperium has either forgotten, failed to discover, or otherwise has no knowledge of, the implantation of geneseed requires the unmodified physiology of an adolescent male. It grow to maturity alongside the other organs, steering their development and growing ripe in itself, until one day the changes are complete and the progenoids can be harvested in order to grow more altered Astartes. This takes roughly five years for one gland and ten years for the second gland.

So, assuming that you have even a fifty-fifty success rate and are growing bodies just to harvest the geneseeds, suppressing their consciousness and keeping them in tanks, you have an exponential progression of... Sixty-four thousand, five hundred and twelve progenoids a the end of that time period. Even if it's just one in ten that proves viable, which shouldn't be hard since you have this super-secret geneseed to draw from, you're still looking at twelve thousand, nine hundred and two.

In other words, I don't think that you thought this out propely. Plus, just as with my earlier comment, you have an oddly dispassionate and overly mechanical style that makes the story come off less as a tragedy and more like a number-obsessed savant from the nineteenth century telling us what happened. Drop the "score" metric unless you're going to use it stylistically and not as a crutch.

Oh, and your citation of the Spiritbrother isn't formatted properly.

After this tragedy the last three Spirit Talkers called the High Hunt, the ruling council of the Hounds. At this meeting the psychic trio revealed a vision of the Sire. He was taught the aspects of war by seven enormous wolves. The council decided to re-organize the Chapter into seven Clans, each one named for a “mentor” wolf. Despite the fact that much of their iconography and adornments feature wolf symbols, they emphatically deny any shared ancestry with the Space Wolves. In fact Hounds of the Hunt become violent at the mention of any association.


Um... Okay.

So where did the organization come from? Why are there Spirit Talkers, Spiritbrothers, Hunt Masters, and all these other ranks which you haven't really explained yet? I know that you want to do them but you have yet to show us why it makes any sense, why they would abandon the most common Astartes organization in the galaxy, and where their spirituality comes from. There's no reference to wolves before this point, so we're left to wonder why they're suddenly significant. More importantly, we're left with no sense of connection to their past or reason to care why they believe these things.

You've declared that they're so, which is fine. It just leaves them flat and tacky with no hint of justification for the rest, which makes the Chapter look like they're different for the sake of being so and not because of a natrual evolution of circumstance and reaction.

Despite the fact that much of their iconography and adornments feature wolf symbols, they emphatically deny any shared ancestry with the Space Wolves. In fact Hounds of the Hunt become violent at the mention of any association.


Do they even know who the Space Wolves are? How? What contact have they had before? If none, then why would they be offended at a comparison to one of the most lauded and successful Chapters?

This, like much of the rest of the article so far, reads like you want something rather than the Chapter needing it. It's out of the blue and has no reasoning behind it.

The Hounds of the Hunt rule over a three planet system in the Veiled Region. They refer to this system as the Shadowreich and the Imperial records of its location are spotty at best. There is an old reference to a testimonial of a member of the Adeptus Mechanicus having visited this system. The voyage was undertaken to confirm the existence of the rich mineral and gaseous resources; this visit seems to have been the beginning of a formal pact between the Chapter and the Mechanium. This system contains one habitable planet.


The tone of this section is all wrong. Just as with the story before, it's so dry and matter of fact that it loses all hint of interest or soul.

Something like this would be better:
The Hounds of the Hunt preside over a distant star system which they have named the Shadowreich, nestled in the rarely-visited Veiled Region. What few Imperial Records remain seem to describe a system of three planets orbiting a star similar to Sol, as attested by a Magos Explorator who had surveyed the system and catalogued its vast, untapped resources for future exploitation. Upon reaching the system, he found the Hounds already occupying two of the three worlds and, with the blessings of his masters on Mars, enacted pacts of mutual support with the Chapter. They would protect the mining operations and refineries of the Mechanicus in exchange for considerations of a more practical bent, namely wargear and support in their efforts to rebuild their battered ranks.

The first planet is named Eametanene. It is a ‘feral world’ with two hemispherical continents and a vast equatorial ocean bordered by cliffs and mountains.


The continents are domes?

The Sanctuary of the Stars is spread out over ten miles of land and is made up of bunkers and palisades. Despite having been attacked by Orks, Chaos raiders and the most hated Dark Eldar, it has never been breached.


This, quite frankly, is MISS.

You have ten square miles of frontage exposed to attack and a single understrength Chapter has defended it against Greenskins, the Ruinous Powers, and Dark Eldar. For one thing, Orks don't go away once they've landed. There would be perrrenial problems with them cropping back up and waging war upon the populace and the Monastery both, so that's a detail which you've apparently not thought of. In addition, there's something of an element of believability when it comes to keeping that much surface frontage inviolate against attack, especially once you've told us how the Chapter couldn't defeat the Dark Eldar before.

...and I'm done for now.

This needs work. Lost of work.
You just had to look around you, Grey Knight, and you'd have seen it. What is Chaos? Suffering, you might say. Oppression. Deceit. But could not all of these things be said of your Imperium?
-Ghargatuloth, Prince of a Thousand Faces, Grey Knights.

The Exonerators Index Astartes WIP + The Inscrutable Index Traitoris WIP + The Black Friars Index Astartes WIP


#45
Madwolf Shadowmane

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Thank you for your comments, Apothete. I see the validity of some of your points, but disagree with others. I will address them in order. I was planning on further development this weekend.

QUOTE
Born of mystery, Hounds of the Hunt Chapter of Space Marines stand watch on the fringes of known space waiting...


Even if you intend to keep that quote as the header, it needs to be edited for grammar.

agreed, this quote has bothered me for a little while, I just haven't gotten around to removing/changing it yet.

QUOTE
Equivocal results from genetic screening


I'm sorry, but this makes next to no sense.

The Adetpus Biologis is the one which provides your geneseed and thus would have records of what was used, barring some catastrophic loss of data or incredible age. Even past the point of creation, your Chapter will be tithing geneseed to the Mechanicus at regular intervals and this "secret" progenitor is going to be revealed by ones means or another. It's not as if they can't just compare the pattern to those which exist in the genebanks, which includes all of the Loyalist lines and - in some kind of time locked vault - even the Traitors.

The first reaction to finding out that a geneseed repeatedly tests as unrecognizable isn't going to be a ho-hum sort of lackadaisical waiting, it'll be demands for further samples, possible Inquisitorial scrutiny for unacceptable mutation, and perhaps even a purgation crusade by other Astartes.

I disagree with some of this. The third founding would be long enough for the records to be spotty. All of the resources I've read indicate that the Imperium, do to its size and scope are substandard in archiving the meticulous records they keep. The canon supports this. Later in the IA, I address the Inquisition investigating the gene-seed. The comparison portion you address may be due to the way I interpret how gene-seed is identified.

My understanding is that all second founding and later chapters bear some genetic similarity to the founding legion. In the previous version of my IA I indicated that the Hounds of the Hunt gene-seed had similarities to all of the nine loyal legions. The statement brought a wave of other issues so I removed it. I will work on this.

QUOTE
presumed to be the Third founding


See above for generalities, below for specifics.

While the Imperium is vast, beureaucratic, autocratic, and generally a miserable place to be, the one thing that it generally isn't going to be lacking is information about the origins of Astartes Chapters, provided that the person who wants to know is sufficiently resourceful or powerful. The Adeptus Terra would have records of the orders whereby the Hounds were created, the Mechanicus and Munitorum would possess requisition, logistic, and disposition forms that show initial and subsequent allotments of material and wargear, along with the geneseed tithes and any later request for equipment. Somewhere in the system, a record will show if the Hunt ever claimed a planet and notified the Adeptus Terra of their stewardship.

Get where I'm going with this?

I see what you are saying. I say Blood Ravens, the Dark Founding, the Cursed Founding, and almost all Pre-Heresy documentation about the original 20 legions as cited in the Index Astartes articles in White Dwarf.

QUOTE
War Chief Madwolf Shadowmane


Not to make this a personal attack, but, well... Really?

I'm not exactly wild about the names of some of the Primarchs or Legions, but that's perhaps even worse than Ferrus Manus or the Ultramarines.

Ok, sorry I like it.

QUOTE
There are no great sagas about the Hounds of the Hunt, they are not widely known throughout the Imperium. They have had minimal contact with the vast assets of the Imperium, due in part to their reclusive nature and due to the apathy of the grand Imperial machine.


Generally speaking, even if for no other reason that because the Inquisition wants to make absolutely certain that there's not a future Horus Heresy brewing amongst the stars, the odds are pretty good that someone's paying attention. Even if it's only every couple of centuries, your Chapter has contact with the rest of the Imperium or else they're probably not receiving any of the material support that would allow them to remain in service.

got it, I will expand on what I meant by "minimal"

The one exception is their regular trading with the Adeptus Mechanicus of the Forge world Urdesh. The Chapter has control of large quantities of rare chemical and mineral resources. They deliver these elements once every 25 years per their compact with the Mechanium. At these deliveries the Chapter representatives receive their allotment of new battle gear and supplies.


This reads like an attempt to namedrop a world made famous in the Gaunt's Ghosts series, especially since Urdesh was captured and then retaken in a completely different Segmentum. In addition, your Chapter appears to be fairly weak if they're having to barter resources and mining in exchange for something which is typically considered the duty of the Mechanicus. I could understand if they were making unusual requests and then offering something equally rare or valuable in exchange, but mining rights and some tankers just don't seem all that likely to be in the purview of the Astartes.

Why would your Chapter be in control of these resources in the first place, rather than allowing the Mechanicus to exploit them? Why would they do the mining and refining themselves instead of allowing the body which is generally responsible for these things to take care of it, especially if they aren't intending to make use of the material themselves? Also, why bother to ship things so far away and use a named Forgeworld instead of just playing off a minor, previous unnamed world of your own devising?


I didn't pick it because of the reference in Gaunt's Ghosts, I picked it because it was the closest Forgeworld on the 40k universe map. In hindsight I should just make up my own forge world. I will rethink my Chapter's relationship with the AM.

QUOTE
According to the earliest retrieved record, the Adeptus Administratum places their origins in the Third Founding. This assumption is based on a materials list from their departure for their newly assigned home world. Since the Mechanicus has been unable to genetically match their gene-seed zygotes, this has been unconfirmed. The only enlightenment they will provide is that their gene stock comes from the Sire.


Then they're Third Founding, since that's what the records say.

See my above comments for a response to the rest of this.

I will adjust this. I would like to retain doubt in regards to their actual founding.

QUOTE
“…While in transit to the home world bestowed upon us we were attacked by a Dark Eldar pirate armada. We were 251 Hounds strong spread across: one Battle Barge, the Night Runner, and three Strike Cruisers; the Fatalstrike, the Heartblood, and the Hunt’s End against roughly 50 pirate vessels. The Hunt’s End was destroyed, but not before extracting a terrible toll on the xenos scum. The Sire and 83 of our brethren boarded the Dark Eldar flagship. The Sire saved us; he slew the Archon, sending the enemy fleet into disarray. Before the Sire could return to the Night Runner, the disabled pirate flagship transitioned abruptly into the Ether crippling his ship in its proximity.


The Eldar and Dark Eldar use archeotech pathways within the warp, which they refer to as the Webway. As far as we know, neither of the races possess or are willing to use technology that would allow direct travel through the immaterium, at least in part because Slaanesh is waiting to devour their souls. Though we don't have exact knowledge of how the ships enter or leave the Webway, it likely isn't instantaneous and thus interferes with your story.

In other words, this little vignette doesn't work.

Yep, totally missed the distinction on the Webway versus Warp transit. I will fix this.

QUOTE
Our Sire became lost to us trapped in the Warp. The Night Runner crashed on the third moon of Eametanene, Eemohone. Only two Hounds survived the crash without debilitating wounds. Of those two only I survive. In the wake of the battle, the Fatalstrike was mostly intact with 49 of the 53 Hounds who were carried onboard. The Heartblood had been critically damaged as the remnant of the pirate fleet fled the system and only carried three score minus one of the 74 brothers onboard. One hundred eight Hounds descended to our new home world, Eametanene, We were a Chapter on the brink of extinction with one fully functional Strike Cruiser.


I can't help but read this out loud in a droning, monotonous voice and a plodding pace.

That's because it adds nothing of value to the writeup and merely takes up space, since the mechanical details are less interesting than the effect of losing almost everything at the very beginning. I'm really hoping that I'm going to see some development later in the article that stems from this point, since you've made such a big deal about how they crashed and lost this and that. You're setting yourself up to go in a particular direction but, somehow, I doubt that I'll see it when I get there.

I will work on this. I guess 16 years of writing medical notes kinda beats creative writing outta a person.

QUOTE
We collected the shells of our kin that barely clung to life. They would never fight for the Emperor again. The Sire’s gift was the ability to re-grow a removed Progenoid organ if the other is intact.


Why is this a gift of "The Sire" rather than the Emperor, or even their Primarch? The temporal leader of the Hunt has nothing to do with their geneseed or the modified physiology of an Astartes, so it makes no sense to idolize him over what amounts to the design put in place before even the Legions had been created.

What purpose does this serve? Are you going to make them blind worshippers of their own line, ignoring both the Imperial Cult and the usual development of Marine belief systems? How do they justify what, to many in both their cousin Chapters and the Ecclesiarchy, would be a very special kind of heresy?

QUOTE
A score plus six of our half-dead comrades were found and to our shame we used them to grow Progenoid organs for 115 years before we gave them the Emperor’s release. Those damaged brothers served well and we were returned to fighting strength. As a mark of our guilt we created the Sire’s Vault to chronicle the exploits of those who have honored our Chapter.


Unless your Chapter has stumbled across a process which the rest of the Imperium has either forgotten, failed to discover, or otherwise has no knowledge of, the implantation of geneseed requires the unmodified physiology of an adolescent male. It grow to maturity alongside the other organs, steering their development and growing ripe in itself, until one day the changes are complete and the progenoids can be harvested in order to grow more altered Astartes. This takes roughly five years for one gland and ten years for the second gland.

So, assuming that you have even a fifty-fifty success rate and are growing bodies just to harvest the geneseeds, suppressing their consciousness and keeping them in tanks, you have an exponential progression of... Sixty-four thousand, five hundred and twelve progenoids a the end of that time period. Even if it's just one in ten that proves viable, which shouldn't be hard since you have this super-secret geneseed to draw from, you're still looking at twelve thousand, nine hundred and two.

In other words, I don't think that you thought this out propely. Plus, just as with my earlier comment, you have an oddly dispassionate and overly mechanical style that makes the story come off less as a tragedy and more like a number-obsessed savant from the nineteenth century telling us what happened. Drop the "score" metric unless you're going to use it stylistically and not as a crutch.

Oh, and your citation of the Spiritbrother isn't formatted properly.

I explain this in the gene-seed section. You are correct I adjusted the resulting numbers but not the timeline in the rewrite. The Chapter would get one Progenoid per marine every 10 years. 312 Progenoids in this timeframe from the damaged marines only. I will rework this section and this aspect of the IA. How should the citation of the Spiritbrother be formatted?

QUOTE
After this tragedy the last three Spirit Talkers called the High Hunt, the ruling council of the Hounds. At this meeting the psychic trio revealed a vision of the Sire. He was taught the aspects of war by seven enormous wolves. The council decided to re-organize the Chapter into seven Clans, each one named for a “mentor” wolf. Despite the fact that much of their iconography and adornments feature wolf symbols, they emphatically deny any shared ancestry with the Space Wolves. In fact Hounds of the Hunt become violent at the mention of any association.


Um... Okay.

So where did the organization come from? Why are there Spirit Talkers, Spiritbrothers, Hunt Masters, and all these other ranks which you haven't really explained yet? I know that you want to do them but you have yet to show us why it makes any sense, why they would abandon the most common Astartes organization in the galaxy, and where their spirituality comes from. There's no reference to wolves before this point, so we're left to wonder why they're suddenly significant. More importantly, we're left with no sense of connection to their past or reason to care why they believe these things.

You've declared that they're so, which is fine. It just leaves them flat and tacky with no hint of justification for the rest, which makes the Chapter look like they're different for the sake of being so and not because of a natrual evolution of circumstance and reaction.

I will further develop this concept

QUOTE
Despite the fact that much of their iconography and adornments feature wolf symbols, they emphatically deny any shared ancestry with the Space Wolves. In fact Hounds of the Hunt become violent at the mention of any association.


Do they even know who the Space Wolves are? How? What contact have they had before? If none, then why would they be offended at a comparison to one of the most lauded and successful Chapters?

This, like much of the rest of the article so far, reads like you want something rather than the Chapter needing it. It's out of the blue and has no reasoning behind it.

I will further develop their reaction to being accused of being Space Wolves, it worked better when I had the quote expressing contempt for the Sons of Russ. As to how they know about the Space Wolves, it is another point for expanding on the minimal contact part from above.

QUOTE
The Hounds of the Hunt rule over a three planet system in the Veiled Region. They refer to this system as the Shadowreich and the Imperial records of its location are spotty at best. There is an old reference to a testimonial of a member of the Adeptus Mechanicus having visited this system. The voyage was undertaken to confirm the existence of the rich mineral and gaseous resources; this visit seems to have been the beginning of a formal pact between the Chapter and the Mechanium. This system contains one habitable planet.


The tone of this section is all wrong. Just as with the story before, it's so dry and matter of fact that it loses all hint of interest or soul.

Something like this would be better:
The Hounds of the Hunt preside over a distant star system which they have named the Shadowreich, nestled in the rarely-visited Veiled Region. What few Imperial Records remain seem to describe a system of three planets orbiting a star similar to Sol, as attested by a Magos Explorator who had surveyed the system and catalogued its vast, untapped resources for future exploitation. Upon reaching the system, he found the Hounds already occupying two of the three worlds and, with the blessings of his masters on Mars, enacted pacts of mutual support with the Chapter. They would protect the mining operations and refineries of the Mechanicus in exchange for considerations of a more practical bent, namely wargear and support in their efforts to rebuild their battered ranks.

I will work on this

QUOTE
The first planet is named Eametanene. It is a ‘feral world’ with two hemispherical continents and a vast equatorial ocean bordered by cliffs and mountains.


The continents are domes?

I will fix it so it is more clear

QUOTE
The Sanctuary of the Stars is spread out over ten miles of land and is made up of bunkers and palisades. Despite having been attacked by Orks, Chaos raiders and the most hated Dark Eldar, it has never been breached.


This, quite frankly, is MISS.

You have ten square miles of frontage exposed to attack and a single understrength Chapter has defended it against Greenskins, the Ruinous Powers, and Dark Eldar. For one thing, Orks don't go away once they've landed. There would be perrrenial problems with them cropping back up and waging war upon the populace and the Monastery both, so that's a detail which you've apparently not thought of. In addition, there's something of an element of believability when it comes to keeping that much surface frontage inviolate against attack, especially once you've told us how the Chapter couldn't defeat the Dark Eldar before.

Ten miles was a random number, this had been bothering me too. I will fix it so it conveys the image I was looking for. I want it to be spread out and single story versus vast, towering fortress.

Again Thank you for the critique. I will do another major rewrite this weekend.

IA: Hounds of the Hunt          Working on the Hunt (W.I.P.)          The Hunt Begins...(Finished Minis)          IA: Lords of Dusk          Octaguide 2.0

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#46
Grand Master Tyrak

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I disagree with some of this. The third founding would be long enough for the records to be spotty. All of the resources I've read indicate that the Imperium, do to its size and scope are substandard in archiving the meticulous records they keep. The canon supports this.


Sources? All I've read has been the opposite - the Administratum files anything and everything and never throws anything away. Planetary archives taking on a literal meaning and all that. Unless you can pin down a specific instance where the records were attacked and/or damaged (Horus Heresy being the classic example), there will be a record.

Plus, if the gene-seed records are spotty then what is the point of gene-seed tithes? They wouldn't work.

"Be an Inquisition informer, betray your friends and family - Fabulous Prizes to be Won!"


#47
Madwolf Shadowmane

Madwolf Shadowmane

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Best source for my point in this case is US WD 252 pg 83, Article is titled Index Astartes: Codex Astartes under the section Subsequent Foundings. If you need an exact quote I can pm you.

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#48
Captain Juan Juarez

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I think it's more likely that the records are there, they are just buried under so much other information that they may as well be lost.
" They made you to be untouched by God or mortal. As I cannot kill you, so I curse you, not with death but with life.

I curse you - with the pain of ten thousand days in the Dark Place, with the life's blood of a mage's sacrifice, with Death's authority held in my hands.

I curse you, and I strike your name from history, stripped of arrogance and pride, empty of the self you once knew, gutted of all you are. I take your name and all you have won by the strength of your hand. I curse you for eternity, to find only darkness where once you knew your own face.

And I dub you the Ragged Man."

#49
Madwolf Shadowmane

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Third rewrite complete, at least until the holes are found in my story. Hopefully the style is less boring than before. I do intend to add another sidebar about the Inquisitor's visit to the Vault. Comments welcomed.

IA: Hounds of the Hunt          Working on the Hunt (W.I.P.)          The Hunt Begins...(Finished Minis)          IA: Lords of Dusk          Octaguide 2.0

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#50
Madwolf Shadowmane

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Inquisitor visit added. As always comments welcome.

IA: Hounds of the Hunt          Working on the Hunt (W.I.P.)          The Hunt Begins...(Finished Minis)          IA: Lords of Dusk          Octaguide 2.0

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