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BA 5th Edition FAQ - VII


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#76
mysteriousmaskedmystery

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i have one, someone explain ferocious instincts to me.

"For every roll of '1' to hit Seth in close combat, enemy units immediately suffer and automatic Strength 4 hit..." (is this going to get me in trouble to quote?)

that to me says that either:

as i read it, whenever an enemy trying to hit Seth rolls a '1' to hit, enemy unitS <----- take an S4 hit in return. how does this work. it doesn't say the model that struck him, just enemy units, does that mean every unit in btb with him takes an auto S4?

example: Seth charges two squads of Tau FW with an attached Ethereal. The FW wiff amazingly an come up with shall we say, 5 rolls of 1 to hit. does this then imply that each unit in btb, including the Ethereal, which as an IC is treated as a seperate unit, takes 5 S4 hits, for a total of 15 S4 auto hits? that's how it reads to me and it seems wrong.

... also, are close combat and assault interchangeable? if not then this rule just fizzles since he's in an assault, not close combat. i'm inclined to say that even if CC and assault aren't interchangable this falls into the category with DoM's warp field and the SP's termi armor.

and lastly, i'm not trying to be rediculous, i was looking up Seth's rules to see if there was any insight into the whole argument about blood talons, and how extra attacks were handled by our codex, there isn't, but it gave me fresh confusion and i appologize if this has already been handled.

p.s. why would DC tycho join DC if he has fleet and they don't?

Edited by mysteriousmaskedmystery, 24 May 2010 - 06:16 PM.


#77
Eberious

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It says in seths details that he take advantage of those trying to hit him and attack at the moment the enemy miss to hit him. So any rolls of a 1 miss, then he makes 1 attack for every roll of a 1.

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#78
mysteriousmaskedmystery

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is that what whirlwind of gore says? cause it doesn't read that way to me. how are you interpreting it that way?

#79
Morticon

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Matey - have another read of the rules, you're completely confusing his two rules.
Thats not Whirlwind of Gore- thats the other rule of his: Ferocious Instincts
Theyre two separate things.
Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
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#80
mysteriousmaskedmystery

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yes, i'm sorry, i named the wrong rule, but i think i quoted the proper one. i am asking for clarification of ferocious instincts.

#81
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yes, i'm sorry, i named the wrong rule, but i think i quoted the proper one. i am asking for clarification of ferocious instincts.


You question doesnt make any sense in relation to what the rule for FI says. Its not related in any way to whirlwind of gore.

The "1"s your opponent roll are when they attack you - not when you hit them (with WoG or with regular attacks).


In the case that you asked about - the Firewarriors and the Ethereal. If the FWs whiff 5 times and the Ethereal whiffs once, the FW take 5 S4 hits and the Ethereal takes 1 S4 hit.

EDIT: I think i just got what you meant. You're asking if the S4 hits for the ones are for every unit in combat.
Will get back to you on that one!!!!

Edited by Morticon, 24 May 2010 - 06:29 PM.

Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#82
JamesI

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It does say units. I don't think that the intention is that if the firewarriors roll a 1, the etheral and the firewarriors each take a hit, but by RAW that seems to be what it says.

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#83
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I have no idea about this matey. I've read it over and over and RAW it seems that it is the case- but, I dont think i'd ever play it this way and I think we'd be lynched arguing this way. At the moment, I cant see any linguistic argument to the contrary though. ><;
Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#84
mysteriousmaskedmystery

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yes, haha, sorry, i hope it's clear now, i'm asking about ferocious instincts and whether or not each whiff (read, each to hit roll of '1' against seth) results in an attack against each unit in btb. i know what the answer ought to be, but as it is written, it can be exploited by your opponents too, as if his hidden fist rolls a '1' to hit, i want the attack to go against him, but the rules do not say this is so, it just againt the enemy unitS<---- (with an 's') which sounds like it means each enemy unit in btb.

#85
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Ah, no - Its definitely not specific models. It definitely says "units". The problem is some people interpreting that to be 1 hit on all the units per 1 rolled.
Which seems like blatant abuse.
Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#86
Theikos

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Hey guys, I'm running into some confusion with Mephiston's Transfixing Gaze ability. The problem is happening during a turn in which Mephiston assaults or is assaulted by an IC; does he get to use transfixing gaze?

Transfixing Gaze reads:

"At the start of the Assault phase, Mephiston can attempt to enthrall a single enemy independent character in base contact."

The problem with this is that until the assault move is complete, no one is in base contact. RAW this seems like it would only work on subsequent rounds of combat, which makes the power really lackluster.


Am I reading this wrong?

Theikos

#87
mysteriousmaskedmystery

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@mort: i know, this is exactly what i'm thinking, but honestly i'm not so worried that people will use seth's power to it's wonderfully overpowered extent, to do that they have to charge multiple units and get him into btb with both. so realisticly, this will almost never come up, at best if Furious Instincts worked as i described i might expect it to keep my opponents from piling multiple units into combat against him during their assault phase, making it sort of a deterent.

but, what bothers me is that when someone whiffs, i don't get to attack the model that did it, i suppose that's not unusual as far as WH40k wound allocation goes, but it seems wrong. of course, it would force each model attacking him to roll seperately too, so maybe that's why they chose not to?

Edited by mysteriousmaskedmystery, 24 May 2010 - 10:50 PM.


#88
Sanguinarian

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As CC happens in Initiative order, with ICs usually going before regular troopers which should be differentiated by different colored dice, whichever group of models i.e. units that whiffs should take the Chuck Norris slap or roundhouse kick to the face.

Edited by Sanguinarian, 25 May 2010 - 12:50 AM.

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#89
Morticon

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Hey guys, I'm running into some confusion with Mephiston's Transfixing Gaze ability. The problem is happening during a turn in which Mephiston assaults or is assaulted by an IC; does he get to use transfixing gaze?

Transfixing Gaze reads:

"At the start of the Assault phase, Mephiston can attempt to enthrall a single enemy independent character in base contact."

The problem with this is that until the assault move is complete, no one is in base contact. RAW this seems like it would only work on subsequent rounds of combat, which makes the power really lackluster.


Am I reading this wrong?

Theikos

:)
Wow. Matey, intent aside, I think you've stumbled on to something there. That does seem to be the correct reading of the RAW - its similar in timing to that of the puppies Banner. They cant call it in their assault phase since it is for the "next" assault phase. Similar here. That does make it a lot less powerful.
Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#90
Zarnak

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@Theikos : Wow, I do have to remember that one should I ever stumble upon Mephiston. I do believe that this is a case were RAW is written as intended. Haha, can't wait to hear the next person complain about Mephiston being OP. (Well, he's still good)

#91
mysteriousmaskedmystery

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not to beat a dead horse, but if Furious Instincts doensn't let me attack every unit in btb with Seth (which i agree is not even close to RAI and even if it were it would be over the top) does it let me decide who gets hit with the S4 attack? i'm just worried about my opponents trying to assign the hits to less useful models, in the example of a squad with attached IC, if the IC whiffs, the rules don't state that he's the one that gets hit, in fact it doesn't really state how it is determined which model or even which unit suffers the hit.

#92
Morticon

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Definitely not. Its exactly the same as shooting or regular close combat attacks on a unit. The damage is done to your opponents unit, not opponents models. So, the opponent gets to assign where those wounds go.

However the wording is quite specific in that your opponents IC (a unit) will take S4 hits if he whiffs. Your opponent cannot assign an IC whiff to a squad and vice versa.
In fact, the only ambiguity of the rule is at the detriment to the opponent - ie: 1 whiff = 1 hit for every unit engaged.
Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#93
the jeske

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isnt it worded the same as lucius armor ?

"Felix wondered how Calgar might feel about the primach's unilateral altering of the Codex Astartes. The captain could not help but feel that, in his drive for victory and efficiency, Guilliman had been careless with the feelings of his existing sons. Increasingly, Guilliman looked to the Primaris Space Marines as his first solution. He made no attempt to hide the fact that the days of the older space marines were numbered."


#94
Sanguinarian

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I am seriously considering leading my force with a Seth equivalent. I would play it this way:

Whoever swings and misses Seth gets the smack back immediately and before they roll to wound. So they could very well die before their wound roll if their Initiative is lower than Seth's. THAT WOULD BE WICKED!
"Loose us on the heretics, traitors and daemon-lovers, but hide your faithful and participate not in the battle. For we have judged the whole of your people as weak and deserving only of the Emperor's wrath!!!" - Commander Michelangelis, Chapter Master of the Knights of Blood



My 2011 LPC WIP Thread

#95
Morticon

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I am seriously considering leading my force with a Seth equivalent. I would play it this way:

Whoever swings and misses Seth gets the smack back immediately and before they roll to wound. So they could very well die before their wound roll if their Initiative is lower than Seth's. THAT WOULD BE WICKED!


Yeah unfortunately youd be cheating your opponent. Thats not what the rules say.
For every 1 rolled, the unit receives a S4 hit. not the model.

However, I do see what you mean about intercepting S4 hits killing models before they wound.
That would maybe raise some eyebrows.
Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#96
vahouth

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Can somebody answer me this:
When Dante and squad test for Hit & Run,
what Initiative value do they use?
The higher or majority? :lol:

#97
Morticon

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Can somebody answer me this:
When Dante and squad test for Hit & Run,
what Initiative value do they use?
The higher or majority? :lol:


A unit moves at the rate of the slowest member, so...i think the same principal would apply. I've always used the lowest init.
Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#98
vahouth

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Can somebody answer me this:
When Dante and squad test for Hit & Run,
what Initiative value do they use?
The higher or majority? ^_^


A unit moves at the rate of the slowest member, so...i think the same principal would apply. I've always used the lowest init.


Even in swipping advance moves?

#99
Morticon

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Even in swipping advance moves?

Thats the way ive been playing it- ill try fidn some back up - rules wise- for that.
Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#100
Sanguinarian

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As it's Dante's SR, would I be wrong in assuming you'd
use his?

Why oh why are there so many holes ie ommissions, typos, unclarified RAIs vs. RAWs, etc???

We need an "Operation: Swiss Cheese" to go into action. :sweat: Any volunteers? Oh wait, the letter that I was supposed to write is somewhere around here...*looking at dog wondering if she ate it*

Edited by Sanguinarian, 28 May 2010 - 06:00 PM.

"Loose us on the heretics, traitors and daemon-lovers, but hide your faithful and participate not in the battle. For we have judged the whole of your people as weak and deserving only of the Emperor's wrath!!!" - Commander Michelangelis, Chapter Master of the Knights of Blood



My 2011 LPC WIP Thread




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