94 replies to this topic

[KingHongKong]

Having it set as the Fourth and Fifth and rotating marines sounds fine, provided there is a sort of set time table for when the Companies return. Requiring all members of the First to have served in the Wandering Companies is an insult to those who don't believe that the Chapter should have created the organization, and it skewers your attempt at creating tension.

Edit:

I was looking at your IA, and your space marine picture. If they're codex, shouldn't Fourth Company be designated by green trim?

Edited by KingHongKong, 03 September 2011 - 08:53 PM.

[Ace Debonair]

Having it set as the Fourth and Fifth and rotating marines sounds fine, provided there is a sort of set time table for when the Companies return. Requiring all members of the First to have served in the Wandering Companies is an insult to those who don't believe that the Chapter should have created the organization, and it skewers your attempt at creating tension.

Excellent, and also touché.

I was looking at your IA, and your space marine picture. If they're codex, shouldn't Fourth Company be designated by green trim?

The Codex doesn't have guidelines for the trim colour on Wandering Companies.

EDIT:
Seriously though, no green trim for me.
The IK can scribble their company number on their shoulderpads, or even tattoo it on their faces, but that colourscheme is here to stay.

Edited by Ace Debonair, 07 September 2011 - 01:36 PM.

[KingHongKong]

The Codex doesn't have guidelines for the trim colour on Wandering Companies.

EDIT:
Seriously though, no green trim for me.
The IK can scribble their company number on their shoulderpads, or even tattoo it on their faces, but that colourscheme is here to stay.

Okay, fair enough.

Not to be supremely anal, but:

Captain Bruc Haedar, Infinity Knights Seventh Company

Sergeant Raul Dussan, Infinity Knights 3rd Company

Apothecary Asir Sciran, Infinity Knights Tenth Company

One of these things is not like the other.

Also, Raul should be part of a Wandering Company, Fourth or Fifth, not Third.

[Ferrus Manus]

Lemme take a look:

"This is the legacy of our Primarch - we that continue to fight in the name of the Emperor against the crowding darkness. Before I go to join Him, and stand ready for the final battle, there is one last request I make of you. Take this broken shell, and harvest from it anything that may still function to give my brothers strength to continue our Primarch's legacy."

It should be 'that we continue' and probably should be 'give my brothers the strength'

The Chapter seldom fought alone in these early years, instead responding to conflicts started by other forces.

Hmmm, unless part of a crusade, I tend to think of marines as a rapid reaction force - responding to conflicts that have begun or where the Imperium has lost and they go to re-conquer. So I think the last part of the sentence is redundant. 'instead reinforcing Imperial forces across a dozen battlefields.' Or something similar might work better.

Chapter Master Thadrus' tenure as an Infinity Knight was regrettably short, however.

Ditch the however.

The death of Chapter Master Thadrus, all those centuries ago,

Millenia might be better than centuries.

A thought I had whilst reading this was that perhaps brothers of the IKs form bonds of honour similar to that of Garro and Tarvitz in the HH series, perhaps marked by the exchanging of body parts? Say a hand? Just a thought.

The geneseed of the Infinity Knights comes directly from the lineage of the Ultramarines, the sons of Rouboute Guilliman.

isn't it Roboute? at lest it is in the new codex.

+++++++++

Good stuff as usual mate. That's all I could find - this time

[Ace Debonair]

The geneseed of the Infinity Knights comes directly from the lineage of the Ultramarines, the sons of Rouboute Guilliman.

isn't it Roboute? at lest it is in the new codex.

Damnable typos.

Thanks for the read-through old chap. I'll update the IA accordingly when I next get chance.

[Ace Debonair]

OK, I officially don't know what you guys were complaining about.
All of those mistakes have mysteriously disappeared overnight.

Except for Sgt. Dussan staying in the company he's in. The quote can be from a point in his career where he's not in the Wandering Companies.

[KingHongKong]

Except for Sgt. Dussan staying in the company he's in. The quote can be from a point in his career where he's not in the Wandering Companies.

"This is the world I came from, and here I will be buried. But my life will be spent amongst the stars." - Sergeant Raul Dussan, Infinity Knights Third Company

Context, Ace. CONTEXT.

[Ace Debonair]

Context, Ace. CONTEXT.

Dude, come on. It's not like eight of the ten companies sit at home on Ashar playing Snap.
They still fight on a lot of battlefields in a pretty large area around their world, like I imagine most Chapters do.

[KingHongKong]

Dude, come on. It's not like eight of the ten companies sit at home on Ashar playing Snap.
They still fight on a lot of battlefields in a pretty large area around their world, like I imagine most Chapters do.

Does this mean that Dussan won't be at Nuviath?

[Ace Debonair]

Dude, come on. It's not like eight of the ten companies sit at home on Ashar playing Snap.
They still fight on a lot of battlefields in a pretty large area around their world, like I imagine most Chapters do.

Does this mean that Dussan won't be at Nuviath?

Not a bit of it.
It's a quote from either pre-Nuviath Dussan, or post-Nuviath after being rotated out of the Wandering Companies to let someone else have a go.

[NightrawenII]

Hello again.
There isn't much to add to what was already said, so:

History
Although outsiders find the practice unnerving, or even reprehensible, the Infinity Knights see it as a way of honouring the dead - even past the boundaries of their mortality their strength of arm, or keenness of eye earns them honour after honour.
- Just a simple questions: Does a Infinity Knight display the name of the donor(s) on his armour? For example via scroll or purity seals?

Beliefs
The Chapter's views on death are also somewhat unusual - marines whose organs or limbs are used after their death to repair injured brothers are said to gain a portion of every honour that the repaired marine earns from that point onwards.
- Observation: This could lead to mild schizophrenia in some cases; when a marine doesn't call himself *I*, but *We*.

On some occasions, Strike Cruisers have returned carrying no more than a dozen marines. Sometimes the Cruisers never return at all, leaving their true fate unknown to the rest of the Chapter.
The losses of life on these missions, so far from home, is still a cause of some tension within the Chapter, for some Infinity Knights still disagree with the decision to wander so far abroad.
- At the beginning it's not very clear, that you are talking about Wandering Companies.

Combat Doctrine
It is worth noting that the Infinity Knights sometimes take higher losses than other Astartes Chapters, as this strategy is sometimes employed even when not an optimal way to achieve victory.
- This and preferred combat doctrine somewhat flies into face of this: "The Infinity Knights, while fundamentally reverent of the Codex..."

Homeworld
Humans mostly survive in two ways on Ashar - either by seeking cover in the mountains, where vast, sheltered cities have evolved...
- Lol, I see a khazad-people! I see khazad-people!

The Infinity Knights hold recruitment trials out in isolated, desolate locations, accepting volunteers from all walks of life to try and earn their way into the Chapter.



Cheers, NightrawenII.

Edited by NightrawenII, 14 September 2011 - 11:22 AM.

[KingHongKong]

I really like NightrawenII's points.

Just a simple questions: Does a Infinity Knight display the name of the donor(s) on his armour? For example via scroll or purity seals?

It's mentioned in Prospero Burns that the Custodians engrave their names inside their armor. That could work as an alternative.

Observation: This could lead to mild schizophrenia in some cases; when a marine doesn't call himself *I*, but *We*.

I love imagining this. It's strange, considering how I absolutely hated Ayn Rand's Anthem, but I think it could really work well if it's done either consciously, to a controlled degree, or limited to the venerable marines who legitimately have dozens of replacement parts.

[Ace Debonair]

History
Although outsiders find the practice unnerving, or even reprehensible, the Infinity Knights see it as a way of honouring the dead - even past the boundaries of their mortality their strength of arm, or keenness of eye earns them honour after honour.
- Just a simple questions: Does a Infinity Knight display the name of the donor(s) on his armour? For example via scroll or purity seals?

They do now! That's a heck of an idea.
Cheers, Nightrawen.

Beliefs
The Chapter's views on death are also somewhat unusual - marines whose organs or limbs are used after their death to repair injured brothers are said to gain a portion of every honour that the repaired marine earns from that point onwards.
- Observation: This could lead to mild schizophrenia in some cases; when a marine doesn't call himself *I*, but *We*.

Oh.

Heck.

Yes.

Hello additional word count - I'm going to have a bit of fun with these ideas.

Combat Doctrine
It is worth noting that the Infinity Knights sometimes take higher losses than other Astartes Chapters, as this strategy is sometimes employed even when not an optimal way to achieve victory.
- This and preferred combat doctrine somewhat flies into face of this: "The Infinity Knights, while fundamentally reverent of the Codex..."

Curses curses curses and drat.
Blasted internal inconsistencies.

Sometimes editing old drafts is like putting covers over an elephant.
I'll revise my wording, I think.

Homeworld
Humans mostly survive in two ways on Ashar - either by seeking cover in the mountains, where vast, sheltered cities have evolved...
- Lol, I see a khazad-people! I see khazad-people!

I have no idea what you're talking about...!

I actually meant cities built on the slopes of the mountains, close to rivers or in valleys or the like.
More wording revisions for me, eh?

The Infinity Knights hold recruitment trials out in isolated, desolate locations, accepting volunteers from all walks of life to try and earn their way into the Chapter.

Damnable typos.

It's mentioned in Prospero Burns that the Custodians engrave their names inside their armor. That could work as an alternative.

Both good ideas.
I might have painting and engraving practices both prevalent in the chapter.

Maybe names on the outside of the armour for replaced limbs, or names on the inside of the armour for replaced organs?

Observation: This could lead to mild schizophrenia in some cases; when a marine doesn't call himself *I*, but *We*.

I love imagining this. It's strange, considering how I absolutely hated Ayn Rand's Anthem, but I think it could really work well if it's done either consciously, to a controlled degree, or limited to the venerable marines who legitimately have dozens of replacement parts.

Some of the more contemplative marines might do it deliberately, to acknowledge that they might not be around without the bits cut off their former brothers.
Other marines'll do it without realising and only once every so often. They'd proabably correct themselves if they notice.

It'll certainly be limited to the veterans, though. Fun.


I'll have a bash at an update in the next few days, time permitting.
EDIT:
Guess who typo'd?

Edited by Ace Debonair, 15 September 2011 - 01:56 PM.

[Ace Debonair]

UPDATES! Get'cha updates here! Get 'em while they're still... uh... update-y..?

I'll have a bash at an update in the next few days, time permitting.

I hasten to point out I meant 'Next Few Liber Days', which are much longer than regular days.

[NightrawenII]

UPDATES! Get'cha updates here! Get 'em while they're still... uh... update-y..?

I'll have a bash at an update in the next few days, time permitting.

I hasten to point out I meant 'Next Few Liber Days', which are much longer than regular days.

You didn't know? It was estimated by the renown Liber scientists that while the liber day has a variable value, its mode is close to one week, using the normal measurement of time.

Don't ask how long is liber week... People, who knows, have never be the same like before. Blessed be the ignorance!

[KingHongKong]

Finally, there's something worthwhile on the first page! So, where to sink my teeth first?

Over time, debate rose in the ranks of the Infinity Knights, calling their mission into question. Some amongst the Chapter felt that they should be travelling further afield, aiding Imperial Forces over a much larger scale. Others felt that the Chapter should stay true and steadfast to the original mission dictated to it by only fighting in the sector surrounding their homeworld. Some amongst the dissidents proclaimed that the Infinity Knights could never be true to their mission without expanding their area of influence. The numbers of those in favour of travelling afar grew with each recruitment cycle, and unrest threatened to rear its ugly head.

Eventually, after years of debate, and with the unanimous consent of the Infinity Knight's Captains of the time, a new, altered interpretation of the Codex-approved Chapter formation was put forward. Two Battle Companies would take up the mantle of 'Wandering Companies', using the Chapter's Strike Cruisers to reach further out into the stars. Whenever a Wandering Company returned home, they would replenish their ranks and exchange roles with another Battle Company, allowing a fresh division the chance to serve Humanity and The Emperor further afield.

Since that time, the Infinity Knights have earned a reputation for honour and valor, the Wandering Companies throwing themselves into conflicts alongside Imperial forces across almost the length and breadth of the galaxy whilst their brothers earnestly protect their homelands.

I think these paragraphs would fit better in the Chapter Organization. Right now, that section seems bare, and the History seems more intrusive than an overview should be.

The beliefs section, while full of interesting tidbits, is just that: Full of interesting tidbits. Many of the sentence paragraphs can and should be combined. Others could be expanded. Just to show you that I'm not just blowing typing hot air:

Battle-Brothers whose limbs or organs have been biologically replaced frequently engrave or paint the names of their donor-Brothers on their armour. An evolving tradition within the Chapter is to paint or engrave the names of organ donors on the inside of a marine's armour, rather than the outside.

In recent times ,one increasingly frequent behavioural fault has surfaced within the Chapter; sometimes older Infinity Knights suffer from mild bouts of schizophrenia, usually borrowing mannerisms or personality traits from their donor-Brothers, or answering to their donor-Brother's names as well as or instead of their own. Occasionally afflicted Battle-brothers also find themselves using 'We' rather than 'I' as a personal pronoun.

The Infinity Knights' fervour in the pursuit of their mission has also burnt itself into the Chapter psyche. They respond to any Imperial call to arms with zeal and haste, diving into even the most dangerous of battles without further thought. Though this approach has cost them dearly in lives, through these actions the Infinity Knights have forged good relations with the Adeptus Mechanicus, Imperial Guard and even some of their brother Chapters.

On some occasions, Strike Cruisers have returned carrying no more than a dozen marines. Sometimes the Cruisers never return at all, leaving their true fate unknown to the rest of the Chapter.
The losses of life on these missions, so far from home, is still a cause of some tension within the Chapter, for some Infinity Knights still disagree with the decision to wander so far abroad.

There's no reason why it shouldn't be like this:

Battle-Brothers whose limbs or organs have been biologically replaced frequently engrave or paint the names of their donor-Brothers on their armour. An evolving tradition within the Chapter is to paint or engrave the names of organ donors on the inside of a marine's armour, rather than the outside. In recent times ,one increasingly frequent behavioural fault has surfaced within the Chapter; sometimes older Infinity Knights suffer from mild bouts of schizophrenia, usually borrowing mannerisms or personality traits from their donor-Brothers, or answering to their donor-Brother's names as well as or instead of their own. Occasionally afflicted Battle-brothers also find themselves using 'We' rather than 'I' as a personal pronoun.

The Infinity Knights' fervour in the pursuit of their mission has also burnt itself into the Chapter psyche. They respond to any Imperial call to arms with zeal and haste, diving into even the most dangerous of battles without further thought. Though this approach has cost them dearly in lives, through these actions the Infinity Knights have forged good relations with the Adeptus Mechanicus, Imperial Guard and even some of their brother Chapters. On some occasions, Strike Cruisers have returned carrying no more than a dozen marines. Sometimes the Cruisers never return at all, leaving their true fate unknown to the rest of the Chapter. The losses of life on these missions, so far from home, is still a cause of some tension within the Chapter, for some Infinity Knights still disagree with the decision to wander so far abroad.

Now, I'll just hit the general stuff.

The wandering companies are still just flying over my head. Two battle companies take up the title. They return home to replenish their ranks, but when they do the title rotates. It's just circular logic to me. Personally, have the two companies set, have them replenish themselves and return to the home world when necessary. At the home world, the marines can opt in or opt out of their own accord. On that last note, the wandering companies should return somewhat frequently so that the marines who haven't had a chance to, for lack of a better word, wander can.

The high number of dreadnoughts is nothing new, however the “gifts from the mechanicus” part, as far as I remember, is. It can easily be justified by their mentality to jump in and save the day for some forge worlds or maybe, at one point or another, have a wandering company play escort to an explorator fleet. The point is say it.

The buried dead is an odd line. It works for the tribal nature of the Chapter. It doesn't work particularly well from the organ donor standpoint. If an attempt is made to use everything from a body, the scary part is that everything probably could. The one thing I don't think would be is brain tissue, and the TOMB OF MINDS, in appropriately grimdark formatting, may take your idea in too much of a tribal direction, or just drag in some ancient Egyptian embalming that you probably don't want.

Wording issue:

Much of its landmass is barren desert, with mountainous regions here and there.

Much of its landmass is barren desert, with scattered mountainous regions here and there.

[Ace Debonair]

You didn't know? It was estimated by the renown Liber scientists that while the liber day has a variable value, its mode is close to one week, using the normal measurement of time.

Don't ask how long is liber week... People, who knows, have never be the same like before. Blessed be the ignorance!

The really scary part is that up to now, the entire history of the world has only been one and a bit Liber Years long.

I think these paragraphs would fit better in the Chapter Organization. Right now, that section seems bare, and the History seems more intrusive than an overview should be.

Maybe. But it's fair to say the Wandering Companies and the 'why' behind them are a prety important part of that history, isn't it?

It feels a bit awkward leaving all that until so far through the IA.

The beliefs section, while full of interesting tidbits, is just that: Full of interesting tidbits. Many of the sentence paragraphs can and should be combined. Others could be expanded.

Point well made.
I am, admittedly, terrible for leaving obvious gaps where various updates and new bits have gone.

The high number of dreadnoughts is nothing new, however the “gifts from the mechanicus” part, as far as I remember, is. It can easily be justified by their mentality to jump in and save the day for some forge worlds or maybe, at one point or another, have a wandering company play escort to an explorator fleet. The point is say it.

Actually, that isn't new.
But you make a good point nonetheless, consider a few more words expended.

The buried dead is an odd line. It works for the tribal nature of the Chapter. It doesn't work particularly well from the organ donor standpoint. If an attempt is made to use everything from a body, the scary part is that everything probably could. The one thing I don't think would be is brain tissue, and the TOMB OF MINDS, in appropriately grimdark formatting, may take your idea in too much of a tribal direction, or just drag in some ancient Egyptian embalming that you probably don't want.

Actually...
That could be pretty freaky-awesome.

A vast, underground cavern, lined with sealed metal boxes, each containing the brain of one loyal battle brother, for when the Emperor walks again and can make them whole and incorruptible and all that.

What I was thinking, though, was that the bodies of the dead Astartes couldn't stay frozen forever (tech faults, perhps? This is 40k after all), so they'd have metaphorical 'use by' dates, and be dropped off back home after a few missions. Whatever bits haven't been used go through the burial rites.

Sound workable?

[Octavulg]

What I was thinking, though, was that the bodies of the dead Astartes couldn't stay frozen forever (tech faults, perhps? This is 40k after all)

Freezerburn is a bitch. If only the AdMech knew to burp the bag...

[KingHongKong]

The really scary part is that up to now, the entire history of the world has only been one and a bit Liber Years long.

Welcome to forever, enjoy your stay .

Maybe. But it's fair to say the Wandering Companies and the 'why' behind them are a prety important part of that history, isn't it?

It is fair to say that they are an important part of the Chapter's history. It's not particularly wise to take something that makes them special in terms of organization and stick it in a vastly more general section.

Over time, debate rose in the ranks of the Infinity Knights, calling their mission into question. Some amongst the Chapter felt that they should be travelling further afield, aiding Imperial Forces over a much larger scale. Others felt that the Chapter should stay true and steadfast to the original mission dictated to it by only fighting in the sector surrounding their homeworld. Some amongst the dissidents proclaimed that the Infinity Knights could never be true to their mission without expanding their area of influence. The numbers of those in favour of travelling afar grew with each recruitment cycle, and unrest threatened to rear its ugly head.

Eventually, after years of debate, and with the unanimous consent of the Infinity Knight's Captains of the time, a new, altered interpretation of the Codex-approved Chapter formation was put forward. Two Battle Companies would take up the mantle of 'Wandering Companies', using the Chapter's Strike Cruisers to reach further out into the stars. Whenever a Wandering Company returned home, they would replenish their ranks and exchange roles with another Battle Company, allowing a fresh division the chance to serve Humanity and The Emperor further afield.

Since that time, the Infinity Knights have earned a reputation for honour and valor, the Wandering Companies throwing themselves into conflicts alongside Imperial forces across almost the length and breadth of the galaxy whilst their brothers earnestly protect their homelands.

The Infinity Knights, while fundamentally reverent of the Codex, tenuously adopted an altered Chapter formation to better deal with their changed perception of their mission. The adaptation of two of the Chapter's Battle Companies into Wandering Companies did not, on the whole, make much impact to the organisation of these companies. The most notable difference is that each Wandering Company is given the right to induct any worthy recruits discovered on their travels into an ad-hoc Scout formation. These recruits are then admitted to the Tenth Company on their return to Ashar.

Three paragraphs concerning the Wandering Companies are in the Chapter's history. There is sort-of-kind-of half of a maybe paragraph is in the Chapter's organization.

Here's how I would divide what you have so far:

History

Over time, debate rose in the ranks of the Infinity Knights, calling their mission into question. Some amongst the Chapter felt that they should be travelling further afield, aiding Imperial Forces over a much larger scale. Others felt that the Chapter should stay true and steadfast to the original mission dictated to it by only fighting in the sector surrounding their homeworld. Some amongst the dissidents proclaimed that the Infinity Knights could never be true to their mission without expanding their area of influence. The numbers of those in favour of travelling afar grew with each recruitment cycle, and unrest threatened to rear its ugly head.

Eventually, after years of debate, and with the unanimous consent of the Infinity Knight's Captains of the time, a new, altered interpretation of the Codex-approved Chapter formation was put forward. Since that time, the Infinity Knights have earned a reputation for honour and valor, the Wandering Companies throwing themselves into conflicts alongside Imperial forces across almost the length and breadth of the galaxy whilst their brothers earnestly protect their homelands.

Chapter Organization

The Infinity Knights, while fundamentally reverent of the Codex, tenuously adopted an altered Chapter formation to better deal with their changed perception of their mission. The adaptation of two of the Chapter's Battle Companies into Wandering Companies did not, on the whole, make much impact to the organisation of these companies. Two Battle Companies would take up the mantle of 'Wandering Companies', using the Chapter's Strike Cruisers to reach further out into the stars. Whenever a Wandering Company returned home, they would replenish their ranks and exchange roles with another Battle Company, allowing a fresh division the chance to serve Humanity and The Emperor further afield. The most notable difference is that each Wandering Company is given the right to induct any worthy recruits discovered on their travels into an ad-hoc Scout formation. These recruits are then admitted to the Tenth Company on their return to Ashar.

I know that neither is perfectly coherent, but the idea is there. History : Overview :: Organization : Details
I would still like you to explain what exactly the whole process is, since I'm not certain whether the wandering companies are fixed, a rotated title, both, or neither. Me make to please it sense make.

It all sounds workable, it just needs expansion.

By the way, with the Reavers new "hit and run hit again" doctrine as opposed to the Knights single, swift blow, we could certainly have a little clash of ideals. I found a lovely book in the store today, so I have some pointers to take on how to expand on the Reavers as well.

[Ace Debonair]

What I was thinking, though, was that the bodies of the dead Astartes couldn't stay frozen forever (tech faults, perhps? This is 40k after all)

Freezerburn is a bitch. If only the AdMech knew to burp the bag...

Less than perfect Technology it is, then.

The really scary part is that up to now, the entire history of the world has only been one and a bit Liber Years long.

Welcome to forever, enjoy your stay.

There's a theory that the universe is less than five Liber Years old.

Maybe. But it's fair to say the Wandering Companies and the 'why' behind them are a prety important part of that history, isn't it?

It is fair to say that they are an important part of the Chapter's history. It's not particularly wise to take something that makes them special in terms of organization and stick it in a vastly more general section.

I hadn't really looked at it like that.

Consider your suggested edits made.

I know that neither is perfectly coherent, but the idea is there. History : Overview :: Organization : Details
I would still like you to explain what exactly the whole process is, since I'm not certain whether the wandering companies are fixed, a rotated title, both, or neither. Me make to please it sense make.

See, this is one of my problems. Stuff I write all makes perfect sense and needs no further explanation to me, and it takes a really long time for me to catch on that it's missing details.

Also I couldn't decide if the companies should just take turns or if it should be a fixed company deal.
I settled on the latter for now, and there's now stuff to explain that tucked into Organisation. I can always change it if I change my mind, after all.

By the way, with the Reavers new "hit and run hit again" doctrine as opposed to the Knights single, swift blow, we could certainly have a little clash of ideals. I found a lovely book in the store today, so I have some pointers to take on how to expand on the Reavers as well.

If your Astral Reavers now start to boast about how well-trained they are, even the most taciturn Infinity Knights will struggle to keep a straight face!