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Pre-Heresy/Heresy Era Ultramarines 4th (Grand) Company


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#1
Capt. Jack

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Greetings all,

I would certainly class myself as a better sculptor/modeller than a painter, but then, I'm by no means terrible at painting! Let's hope you guys can give me all the pointers I might need to improve my techniques! ;D

"Why Smurfs?!?!" I hear you cry! Well, I think the Ultras get alot of flak for being boring and lame, but let us not forget that they are still space marines! I imagine any one of you that's read any of the Ultramarine books by Graham McNeill would probably have a diminished sense of annoyance and the 'boys in blue', if not admiration, as I certainly do! Also, you very rarely see nice original smurf armies, and I thought I'd give a go at it ;D

Why Pre-Heresy/Heresy? I LOVE the background GW has come out with over the years. It's hopeful, rich, characterful, and though there was constant war, before Horus' betrayal, there was a sense of unity and brotherhood. It wasn't dreary like 40k. Not to mention, having bought the 'Collected Visions' tome, how could I not do a Pre-Heresy/Heresy army?!?! There will be, without doubt, some themes you guys do not agree with. If that is the case, I ask you let me know where I might have strayed from tradition. ^_^

So, without further ado, may I present my miniatures!

Company Master Caelinus:

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Sergeant Kallustus:

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Brother Castor:

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Brother Pollux:

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Brother Celsus:

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Brother Tullus:

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Now, please bear in mind these are all WiP. I've also got a Termie squad, another tactical squad (of 10, like this one), an assault squad, and 6 finished sternguard (2 more needed), so stay posted! Please leave your thoughts and opinions! :( Jongleur

Edited by Capt. Jack, 09 February 2011 - 11:10 PM.


#2
Vairocanum

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awesome stuff! i love all the conversions you've done especially Sergeant Kallustus. but the hand looks a little bit weird on Brother Tullus in my opinion. cant wait to see more stuff.

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#3
marine

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That's some good work, hoping to see them painted.

#4
Power Hungry Monkey

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Really nice conversions, especially the champion. I hate to be one of those people but if you're doing this is a Pre-Heresy/Heresay Era army than they wouldn't have the aquilla on them anywhere (even tho what you've done with the brass etch looks really good). The only legion that was allowed to wear the aquilla during this period was the Emperor's Children.

Like I said, I love how these guys are looking but if you want to be fluff-correct then no aquillas :( I'm having the same issue with my Pre-Heresy DAs at the moment.

Edited by Power Hungry Monkey, 23 June 2010 - 09:17 PM.

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#5
Capt. Jack

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@ Power Hungry Monkey: I TOTALLY understand where you're coming from with regards to the aquila, but this is where I've tried to be sneaky/used some artistic license.

Now, I've quoted 'Heresy' era marines as well as 'Pre-heresy' just for this reason. Basically they have aquilas on the armour as the heresy has begun and it's a way to diferenciate between loyalists and heretic scum. It's a pretty weak association, but it does it for me! I simply couldn't go without the gorgeous aquila!

What do you recon?

Jongleur

#6
Pig Of Sparta

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I think it fits fluff wise. Although I don't think it's been explicitly stated anywhere (I could be wrong though) that the loyalists adopted the aquila during the Heresy as a FOF marking it make sense that they would

i) use FOF identification
ii) pick something they'd recognise quickly
iii) use a symbol that showed their loyalty

so on that basis by adding the 'era' to Heresy you can shoe horn the aquila's in under the 'only Fulgrim's Legion could have them' bar.

Let me finish by saying those are some great mini's you've got there. Loving the use of Maximini's steam knight bits (I'm assuming that's what they are, I must get some myself one of these days :() I look forward to seeing how this project pans out. I, like you possess a reformed view of the Ultramarines so I'll be watching with interest.

James

Edited by Pig Of Sparta, 23 June 2010 - 09:58 PM.

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#7
Power Hungry Monkey

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I'm a stickler for fluff-correctness, so personally I'd still have to say no on the aquillas. They weren't adopted by the rest of the Legions untill after the Heresy.

That said, stuff it, use them anyway. They look good and what you've done with the brass it very clever and inventive. Been fighting hard against myself not to add them to my DAs anyway just for looks (especially seeing as I've got the brass eagles myself). Maybe a way around it is to hide the actual eagle part of the aquilla with a skull or U symbol but keep the wings. I've tried to do this with the new Ven Dread kits as they have aquillas all over the place. Its rather easy to do and still looks good.

Looking forward to seeing how these boys progress

Stay here and guard my sandwich!


#8
Vash113

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Mark VII armor was developed and implemented during the Siege of the Imperial Palace and an integral part of it was the use of the Imperial Aquila. It makes sense that loyalists would more largely adopt the use of the Aquila symbol even when not wearing the new armor, as a sign of their loyalty to the Emperor and it does fit with the Heresy Era. Now if it was a Great Crusade Era army specifically then that would be another matter, but for Heresy Era its acceptable.

On another fluff note the material seems to suggest that the Ultramarines were formed into Chapters before the implementation of the Codex, so if your looking for a larger than Company organization then the 4th Chapter would probably fit better as a title.

Anyway the models look great, keep it up!

Edited by Vash113, 24 June 2010 - 02:04 AM.

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#9
ulrik the slayer

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the plastic head is way too big for EC's metal body.

#10
Critically_hit

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First off, good job with the conversions! I'm liking these a lot.

I'm quite curious what head you used for the sergeant conversion, would you mind sharing what but you used?
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#11
Capt. Jack

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On another fluff note the material seems to suggest that the Ultramarines were formed into Chapters before the implementation of the Codex, so if your looking for a larger than Company organization then the 4th Chapter would probably fit better as a title.


I see what you mean, but in much of the literature surrounding the heresy, it mentions the Legions being split into 'Grand Companies', which IMO sounds more menacing than chapters, but thanks all the same :angry:

I'm quite curious what head you used for the sergeant conversion, would you mind sharing what but you used?


I used the head that comes with the command sprue from the tactical marines. In hindsight I should have added a little hair maybe?


Thanks for the support and C&C guys, I really appreciate it! The combat squad are all undercoated and I've started painting the blue (50:50 Ultramarines:Necron Abyss), so I'll try to keep you updated as much as possible!

Now, here's a task for you all! What colour should I paint the stone on the bases? I was thinking Dheneb stone working up to off white would contrast nicely with the armour? What do you guys recon?

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Capt. Jack

#12
Power Hungry Monkey

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If you can do it, I'd be going for marble on all the flagstones/tiles. This will really show off the 'classical' feel that the ultramarines have always had and be a nice contrast to the dark blue armour.

As for the gravel, anything that will match up to the tiles. Dhned - white will work well.

Edited by Power Hungry Monkey, 24 June 2010 - 08:49 PM.

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#13
Capt. Jack

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If you can do it, I'd be going for marble on all the flagstones/tiles. This will really show off the 'classical' feel that the ultramarines have always had and be a nice contrast to the dark blue armour.


The thing is, the battlefield might not necessarily be their setting, if you know what I mean? I understand where you're coming from, but I'd prefer a more 'alien' (as in foreign, not Xenos filth) arena. Hope this makes sense? Besides, 'I' beams hardly make for austere architechure! :lol:

Capt. Jack

#14
TempusCorvus

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looking great so far. I'm curious as to where Brother Tullus' backpack came from.

And as for why so many people hate the Ultramarines, the blame rests mostly with Matt Ward, and how he used Codex: Space Marines to make the Ultramarines mary-sues on the level of the twilight characters (Everyone loves them, and they have so few flaws that they become boring.) He essentially said that everyone wants to be like Roboute Guilliman, and the chapters whose geenseed comes from a different Primarch are automatically inferior to those descended from Roboute, but they still want to be like him.

[Chapters who do not emulate the Ultramarines] are aberrants, Chapters who, through quirk of gene-seed, mutation or stubbornness, eschew the Codex Astartes in favor of other structural and combat doctrines. Some, such as the Blood Angels and their successors, strive to be worthy of Guilliman's legacy, but their recalcitrant gene-seed drives them ever further from it. Others, such as the Space Wolves and the Black Templars, remain stubbornly independent, looking to their own founder's ways of war and caring little of how they fare in the eyes of others.


That, my friend, is why people hate the ultramarines. It's Matt Ward's fault.

#15
Blindhamster

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the back pack is an old 2nd ed tactical backpack :P

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#16
SamaNagol

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Mk 7 was rushed into service being developed on Terra during the Siege. Ergo the Ultramarines stuck on the Eastern Fringe fighting Alpha Legion would not have access to it. They wouldn't even technically have access to Mk6 either. Mk5 was rushed into production after Istvaan.

No reason why they couldn't just be heroes of the Heresy during the formation of the Ultramarine Chapter.

Edited by SamaNagol, 26 June 2010 - 04:49 PM.

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#17
Vash113

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I see what you mean, but in much of the literature surrounding the heresy, it mentions the Legions being split into 'Grand Companies', which IMO sounds more menacing than chapters, but thanks all the same :)


Well yes and no. In reality the Legions all had fairly different organizations. Space Wolves had Great Companies, the Iron Warriors had Grand Companies, the Dark Angels and Ultramarines had Chapters, the Raven Guard and World Eaters were split into a variety of Companies including Assault Companies for the World Eaters and Talon and Falcon Companies for the Raven Guard. The Luna Wolves, Emperor's Children and Death Guard all just used Companies but they were far greater in size. Grand Companies were actually among the rarest organization amongst the Pre-Heresy Legions and pretty much solely used by Legions that turned Traitor and, like MK V armor, is generally associated with the traitor Legions.

That, my friend, is why people hate the ultramarines. It's Matt Ward's fault.


Well the sentiment began because the Ultramarines are GW's poster boys, but did get far, far worse with the 5th Edition Codex and the work of Mat Ward.

Edited by Vash113, 26 June 2010 - 08:21 PM.

"Are we going to scrap about it now. Argue which Legion is the toughest?"
"The answer always is, the Wolves of Fenris," Torgadon put in. "Because they're clinically insane."
-1st Captain Sigismund of the Imperial Fists and Captain of the Luna Wolves 2nd Company.

Comprehensive History Archive


#18
Marshall Riese

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I really like where you have gone with the models. Can't wait to see them with paint.

As far as the Aquilla, there wasn't wholesale use. As was mentioned only Fulgrim's boys had that honour legion wide. But as shown with Garro some individuals were granted the honour of wearing the Aquilla. So if you are putting it on character models then it should be fine fluff wise as it is a mark of honour. I would just avoid using it in large quantities or on rank and file.

Cheers.

#19
Capt. Jack

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Mk 7 was rushed into service being developed on Terra during the Siege. Ergo the Ultramarines stuck on the Eastern Fringe fighting Alpha Legion would not have access to it. They wouldn't even technically have access to Mk6 either. Mk5 was rushed into production after Istvaan.

No reason why they couldn't just be heroes of the Heresy during the formation of the Ultramarine Chapter.


I'd much rather they remained Heresy era. I bought 'The Horus Heresy; Collected Visions' a few weeks ago, and basing all the armour I'm using off illustrations from there, so as far as I'm concerned, it's legit.

@ Vash113: I SUPPOSE you win this time Vash! :P Thanks though, it's certainly nice to know where my army stands, technically speaking.

Currently working on the blue armour, but want to finish the blue on the squad before I post any pics up! Trying to do a production line!

Capt Jack

#20
Capt. Jack

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Salve!

Sorry I haven't updated in a while, been insanely busy recently, but here's what I've been up to:

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As you can see, I've taken all the guns off to get to details underneath. Also, perhaps as obviously, I've only painted the blue so far, and on Celsus (the tall one with paint on the base), the shading is a little lighter, but I decided to darken it down a little, though it looks lighter thanks to flash on the camera.

Next, I'm going to paint the green/black/silver, and add more photos of my progress.

Let me know what you think

Cheers

Capt. Jack

#21
Terminatorinhell

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Your blue is very striking, it will look great on the tabletop!

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#22
Pig Of Sparta

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These mini's look even better with some colour on them. I agree with Terminatorinhell that blue is great. Mind sharing the recipe?

My favourite ones are the second and third ones down. They look just like seven foot killing machines should :)

keep up the good work. When you post up stuff of this quality, no one minds waiting a wee while

James

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#23
Hashshashin

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Great Job!

Like the lookks of all especially the captain guys!

#24
Capt. Jack

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Thanks for your compliments guys, keeps me motivated! :)

@ Pig of Sparta: The blue is a weird recipe, which I will nonetheless share with you!

1. 1:3 Chaos Black:Necron Abyss, for the recesses. For simplicities sake I'll name this shade Ultra #1
2. 3:1 Ultra #1:Ultramarine Blue
3. 1:1 Ultra #1:Ultramarine Blue
4. 1:3 Ultra #1:Ultramarine Blue
5. Ultramarine Blue, for the last highlight

Hope this helps!

Capt. Jack

#25
Brother Caedrius

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Great looking models!

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Is that green stuff rope holding that parchment in place?

Edited by Brother Caedrius, 13 July 2010 - 02:00 AM.

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