55 replies to this topic

[Vesper]

I guess I'd hit the road with Ahriman. He's a nice guy.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I guess I'd hit the road with Ahriman. He's a nice guy.

He also has a great stash of wine, which he's always happy to share with a fellow sorcerer and reminisce about times on prospero... All you get is tentacles, madness, death or nothing if you go with Magnus..

Edited by Rune Priest Ridcully, 05 July 2012 - 07:25 PM.

[Ethrion]

All you Magnusites, you do realize that he betrayed his legion, his sons, his homeworld and stood idle while the dogs from Fenris ran wild. Ahriman and then rest of the senior commanders stood up and fought back. If Magnus' actions on Prospero weren't bad enough he had a mental breakdown after he realized Tzeentch had manipulated him and tricked him and yet again he just gave up and yielded to Tzeentch. Ahriman and his cabal refused to lay down and die and let the flesh change take them, after all the effort they had made to resist it Magnus was going to let it undo them.

[PeaceCraft]

of course AHRIMAN

#rant: The so called father of the legion screwed up, decided to take his punishment because he figured it would be best for the imperium and felt guilty for HIS deeds... And to that end he was willing to sacrifice his sons for his own sins - bending all the planet over the couch and blindfolding us while them puppies were coming in. Even after he realized it was what tzeentch wanted and he was trying to deny his chaothic schemes, he tried to drag his sons with him into oblivion - I dont care what reasons he had - Legion comes first, family comes first. And besides, our brothers were only doing what he guided us to do
How could i follow a douche who wanted to "suicide" me because he had a guilt trip. Wuss of a primarch.
(just finished rereading thousand sons- pissed me off even more a second time)

Edited by PeaceCraft, 29 June 2012 - 06:55 AM.

[dRewsus]

Neither. My coven fights for their own reasons and couldn't care any less about either of them. I have two Sorcerers/Lords and two Thousand Sons units (and thus two more Aspiring Sorcerers). They travel the galaxy in the pursuit of knowledge and power and will make and break bonds with nearly anyone. No tactic or trickery is above or below them. My Lord has made a powerful pact with a time altering Daemon Prince. They very frequently and successfully summon the aid of his large daemonic force of Tzeentch.

[Small Far Away]

Magnus. Ahriman destroyed the Legion as much as he saved it.

[Ethrion]

Ahriman destroyed the Legion as much as he saved it.

Got to disagree...every marine in the legion reduced to tentacle blobs of goo with thousands of eyes or the sorcerers saved and the non psykers bodies destroyed but souls saved albeit trapped inside their armour. Gotta say that's more saved than destroyed on Ahrimans part IMO...

[Furyou Miko]

Well, you know... saved, enslaved, what does three letters mean in the long run of things?

[Excessus]

Ahriman has been my homeboy since 2nd ed...he just wished his legion well...such a tragic character...

It's like the saying goes: The road to hell is paved with good intentions...

[Fediuld]

Ahriman.

Because he is the reason, along with my divorce, returning to the game after 10 years. And making my first Chaos army.

Is a cool dude, making wine and honesty.

All is Dust, after all.

[darth_giles]

I'm considering doing a Tzeentchian Word Bearers army, so I'm going to have to choose option 3: Lorgar.

[Iron Warrior w/ Servo Arm]

Isn't Magnus and his Planet of Sorcerors hidden to most Thousand Sons? I remember reading somewhere that only the most worthy sorceror can reach it.

If so, don't you follow Tzeentch more than you follow Magnus?

[Xenith]

Ahrabeth of the Thousand Sons follows his own path, although was more than willing to help Ahriman break into the webway...

[GreatEscape_13]

Magnus, as I'm doing an invasion of Terra period force: still look for the most part like they did pre-Heresy, but now focus on summoning all the daemons for the invasion.

I still play the old Horus Heresy board game from time to time with a buddy, and the Magnus the Red tile is the bee's knees.

Cheers.

[Eerie]

I do not see it as an "either/or" decision. From a real-world point of view this may be because I like both Magnus and Ahriman and thus want to avoid pinning my army to one of them, excluding the other.

But from an in-universe point of view I think that any sorcerer of a certain standing has his own plan anyway. They're Tzeentchians, not blindly fanatic Imperialists with their dogmatic view of things. Something like "I do not concur with this or that idea, so I hate the guy who had it and fight him with all my efforts" is very un-Tzeentchian. A 10,000-yr old mighty TS sorceror will not be a blind Ahriman-fanboy just because he cooperates with Ahriman. What we (the players) know, do these guys know as well. They will all have bred over the question whether Ahriman's rubric was right or wrong more than enough and each will have come to his own conclusion. Many will work with Ahriman even though they have quite some "sympathy" with Magnus' decision and vice versa. There could very well be a certain amount of defections to-and-fro between the camps and more than often enough, Magnus and/or Ahriman will be aware of these defections and probably even be the ones who contrived them.

Just remember who all their employer is.

[The Nephilim]

Many will work with Ahriman even though they have quite some "sympathy" with Magnus' decision and vice versa.

I have to disagree with you there. The events that lead to fall of Prospero and the escape to the Planet of Sorcerers (such a bland name by the way) would have bred strong feelings about what went down. Then you tack on Ahriman's Rubric and you've got more the love/hate/family disagreements compounded even more. Bottom-line: A lot of the old school veterans from the Heresy would still view each other as family. And just like a real extended family, you've got people you love, and in the case of dysfunctional families, people you hate more than a potential sworn enemy. There would be very clearly drawn lines.

And as to the topic in question, if I had to pick a non-Slaaneshi faction, it would be Ahriman. He attempted, albeit rashly, to correct Magnus' blunder. You can't blame the man for attempting to fix daddy's mistakes.

[Eerie]

You are right on the one hand, but on the other so much time has passed. Emotions change over the course of time (okay, not necessarily in 40k, but...). I just can't imagine that the sorcerers pick one side and then never look back for the next 10,000 years. Maybe a Khorne Berserker who comits to the Blood God and never thinks about anything else again for the rest of his existence would do that, but those indivualistic, highly intelligent and opportunistic sorcerers of Tzeentch?
And sympathy was probably the wrong word. Let's better call it understanding. Every TS knows how difficult that decision was, that in the end the two most knowledgeable members of the legion came to different conclusions about the same matter, and that still nobody knows who got it right in the end. I just assume that most TS sorcerors at some point recognize that there might be no right or wrong answer, but that you just have to make the best of it.

Enough time has passed to allow any surviving member of the original legion to comprehend what has happened, why it happened, and what all this means for oneself. And that throwing your lot in with just one camp may ultimately restrict your own progress.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Anyone else get reminded of Magnus and Russ when watching Dr Horribles sing along blog? the finale especially brings Magnus's resignation to "fate" to mind.
Love Nephiliam's veiw on the sons, I generally get the feeling that the surving Thousand sons are closer then the other legions, Sorcerer Tutankhamen and Sorcerer Atenaten may disagree and argue over Ormound's theory of applied pyromany and related biomancy in relation to Ahriman's thesis on the application of visions in the Kitchen when trying to bake a cake for Sorcerer Homenhotep's birthday, they may even have a fight using lethal spells and have their rubricae clash.
But afterwards they will happily discuss Ulthizaars Symposeum over a bottle of brandy whilst laughing over that joke Ahirman told involving Abbadon, a farseer, an Ultramarine chapter master and over twelve tonnes of Fenrisian Custard.

[GKTerminator]

I would say my Sons follow Magnus. Despite what people see as a betrayal of his legion; Magnus chose to attempt to repent for his actions, actions which reflected upon his entire chapter, and yet once his legion had started holding off the wolves he saw what had happened and how the manipulations had occured and chose to finally intervene and saved what was left of his legion. Tzeentch manipulated him and he remained loyal far longer than some of the Primarchs.

Also I remember Magnus stating something along the lines of "The Imperium will need the wolves", Magnus allowed the wolves to ravage Prospero because he was still looking out for what the legion stood for at the time: The Emperor and his Empire.

Once he became a Daemonprince it's not that he just hangs out and does nothing. Once he threw off the shackles of the Emperor he only chose to do what was best for his legion first and his Patron next, which I belive is the base tennant that Magnus has followed from day one.

Arhiman on the other hand...well he's just a spoiled kid who was like "Dad couldn't do it, but watch me.....oh crap" and IMO ended up doing more harm than good...even Magnus pointed out that Ahriman didn't understand the meaning of Chaos itself and instead was trying to have his cake and eat it too.

In the end, we remain loyal to the Primarch Daemonprince who will always guide us to glory...

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Cause he really led you to glory on Fenris didn't he?
That was what spoiled the novel for me, Magnus sacrificed his legion, and what did it do? the fact a single great company was able to destroy the remenents of Magnus's command kinda shows why everyone left.

[GKTerminator]

Eh...good guys tend to win in the 40K fluff....at least Magnus tried bringing vengence down upon the Wolves. Good enough for me.

[Furyou Miko]

... Magnus what?

Magnus is the guy who said, "No, I messed up, I deserve to have my chapter destroyed by the Wolves!" and killed any Thousand Son who tried to warn the others after finding out!

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

... Magnus what?

Magnus is the guy who said, "No, I messed up, I deserve to have my chapter destroyed by the Wolves!" and killed any Thousand Son who tried to warn the others after finding out!

Least when the other Primarchs killed there own men, it was under chaos influence, but Magnus? He get's upset when it turns out he did not know best and just kills one of my favorite characters and his whole squad.
Guess we are luck he didn't decide kill us all whilst he was having his tantrum/sulk/fit/depression.

[Furyou Miko]

Oh, so it's better because Magnus had a temper tantrum and murdered his best friend in a fit of pique?

Even so, "merely" acting like a spoiled brat instead of outright falling to chaos is a far cry from "trying to bring vengeance against the Space Wolves".

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Exactly, I was saying least when the Primarchs kill their own marines it's because of conflicting loyalties/chaos maddness.
If Magnus had really felt that bad about what he had done, he should have explained, loaded the whole legion in the ships and headed to Terra to present himself for judgement/punishment by the emperor, handing over his legion for the emperor to decide what to do with, and tell the people of Prospero to surrender to the Wolves as soon as they got there.