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IA: The Saviors


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#1
Firepower

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PROTELO EST MINISTRO

"To Lead is to Serve"

Chapter of the 15th Founding, the Salamanders gene-stock.

Original Name: The Wrath-Forged

ORIGINS

“May every shot we fire be echoed by a barrage, and every swing of our swords see an army born. Humanity will take hold of the galaxy that would see it destroyed, but this is a paradise forged in the fires of pain and sacrifice. This is our burden, brothers, to be the smithies of His Utopia. Carry it with pride, and never doubt.”
~Chapter Master Alerok, Custodian of the Hallowed Hope



A
t the Chapter's inception, the Wrath-Forged performed largely according to doctrine prescribed by their parent Chapter, the Salamanders. A predilection for slow and careful strategies and action, a natural affinity for the fires of the forge, and a relatively compassionate view of the Imperium's children were their hallmarks. Unique to the Wrath-Forged, however, was a propensity for horrendous luck.

It was within the Segmentum Obscurus region of space which the Wrath-Forged chose their base of operations, the Fraxian sector. Initially, the sector was home to just shy of two dozen populated Imperial worlds with a range of resources and environments, counting twin hive worlds, a major agri-world, and a death-world moon, dubbed Drakemaw by the Wrath-Forged in reference the to massive volcano at its northern pole. It was this ruthless moon of ice and magma from which the Chapter drew most of its recruits. Though the sector was largely productive and adequately self-sufficient , it did not reside close to any major tactical centers, and so endured relative isolation from Imperial assistance.
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It was this isolation which left the Wrath-Forged to suffer an inexplicably constant series of invasions by xenos and traitorous forces within the first several centuries of their presence in the Fraxian sector. As soon as the Chapter repelled a Waaagh, Dark Eldar pirates would threaten the opposite end of the sector. Within days of vanquishing the raiders, ships of the Traitorous Legions would emerge from the Warp to threaten yet another world. Reluctantly, the Wrath-Forged found themselves calling for assistance from nearby regions, only to be left with little to no reply from an Imperium who's concerns laid in more tactically significant areas of space. Inevitably, humanity began to lose ground in the sector, until fully half of the once prosperous corner of the galaxy was left uninhabitable or crippled by the ravages of constant warfare. Of the two hive worlds that once stood, only one remained habitable and in some semblance of working order. Other planets which once served as home to nations full of Imperial citizens were left in tatters, populated only by bands of a few thousand embittered survivors. The Chapter itself was likewise crippled, reduced to little more than 300 marines when matters finally came to a breaking point.

It was after yet another incursion by the greenskins and the subsequent costly war that the Wrath-Forged found themselves a moment's respite for the first time in centuries. Feelings of bitterness for the uncaring blind eye of the Imperial bureaucracy, the utter dependence of the indigenous peoples for aid from the struggling Chapter, and even their own ill fortune at inheriting such a burdensome protectorate began to fester once the break from constant battle left time for the marines' minds to turn inward. Even with the deeply ingrained value of self-reliance their gene-father had instilled in the Wrath-Forged, the Chapter couldn't help but grate against the seemingly endless and inexplicable trial of their dedication. The Chapter Master at the time, Ju'ker, was forced to withdraw to the fires of the forge and meditate upon the fate of his fledgling Chapter. He stayed locked inside the Chapter's forges for weeks until, as it always did, news of another threat reached the Chapter's Fortress Monastery on Drakemaw. Kadis III, seemingly echoing the Chapter's own misgivings, had broken out in rebellion, citing their ill lot and the Imperium's lack of concern as nothing short of abandonment by the Emperor Himself.

It was then that Ju'ker finally emerged from the forge, his helm abandoned and his face veiled by a simple, elegant mask of polished steel, void of any features save for the faces of his brothers reflecting from its mirrored surface. He stood over the vanguard as it begrudgingly prepared to make war on those who they couldn't help but sympathize with. With utter conviction and fire in his heart, he denounced the feelings of self pity and loathing for circumstance that had grown like a cancer inside himself and his brothers. He claimed to see Vulkan, and the God Emperor Himself in the flames of his forge, whom chastised and rebuked the Master for his moment of weakness. The chiding patriarchs guided his hand to forge the mirrored mask he now wore. In a rousing oratory, he proclaimed:

Look! Look upon this visage and see the reflection of your savior. He is a son of Vulkan, a grandchild to the Emperor Himself, and yet you see him now, crestfallen and weary. Damn his whimpering and damn his weakness! If you find the warrior echoed in this mask wanting, if he cannot stand and fight for himself, what place does he have in His Great Works? We are human, the chosen race. We are legion, countless and enduring. We are salvation, for ourselves, for the Imperium!



So it was that the Wrath-Forged were pulled from the brink of their own damnation. The Chapter realized it could not count on the notion of a caring universe, no more than the people they protect could count on the Astartes for eternal protection from all the cruelties the galaxy had to offer. The small force still remaining after centuries of attrition made for Kadis III with all due haste, arriving from the sky to land among the front lines of the woefully outnumbered defenders facing down the tide of madness. Ju'ker called for their valor, to prove and reforge themselves as he and his Chapter had done, and his marines echoed the call across the line, burning fire and zeal into the hearts of the wavering militia. As one the cry came up along the battlements, drowning out artillery, shell, and rifle in a sonorous roar: "Nos es humanus! Es legio! Es salus!" [translated: "We are human! We are legion! We are salvation!"]

The resultant clash has come to be a hallmark of the Wrath-Forged, now known simply as the Saviors. Casualties were high, higher than they would have been should the Chapter had dropped strait into the heart of the rebel army. But those left alive have become a bulwark of faith and strength in the sector, and Kadis III has come to represent an equal share of stern and fire-hearted viable recruits for the Chapter as the furious environment of Drakemaw, and has been a firebreak in the sector's constant dreadful luck with incursions ever since.

The mirrored helm, which has come to be known as Salvation's Visage, remains the badge of office for the Chapter Master to this day.

BELIEFS

“You think our title is one of self importance, a claim that makes us pretenders to the Throne. This ignorance is an insult to our honor. We are not called The Saviors because of disloyalty to the Emperor, but because of our devotion to Him and His works. Humanity must learn to be strong, to brace itself against the horrors of the galaxy and of its own weaknesses. When the Emperor walks among us once more, and He will, we, and those we protect, must be of the caliber He needs to exact mankind's manifest destiny. It is you who blasphemes, little man, by kowtowing His Great Works into an empire of mewling sheep and wailing infants.”
~ Reclusiarch Tuwain, exerted from The Saviors' 4th Inquisitorial Investigation


The Saviors’ tenets of faith are at once their greatest strength and vulnerability. The Chapter’s rigid emphasis on self-reliance, and the need for that emphasis to spread beyond the Chapter into the heart of Humanity itself, is the driving force of every battle brother. Simultaneously, it strains relations with the Inquisitorial factions’ own self proclaimed jurisdiction over the souls of Humanity, meaning both The Saviors and those they influence are never far from the forefront of the Inquisition’s attentions.

The Chapter’s bodies of worship have gradually changed in significance since its rebirth as The Saviors. Vulkan, their Primarch, has inexorably fallen out of focus in relation to direct veneration of the Emperor Himself. The Saviors do all they can to model and shape themselves to His example, both as warriors and as leaders. It is a central dogma of the Chapter which proposes the Emperor’s greatness lay in both of these fields, and that they must do what they can to emulate such qualities. Equally significant is their heartfelt belief that, one day, the Emperor will walk once more among His children and finally claim the galaxy in the name of mankind. This drives them to be more than merely damage control or a bulwark for the masses against the enemies of man, but instead to inspire and reforge it into an Imperium worthy of His return and goals.
The Visage of Salvation
Unkown to those whom look upon the smooth, gleaming mirror-mask of The Saviors’ Chapter Master, the inverse is shaped to the contours of a disfigured, tusked demon. The mask, when passed on to a new Master, is heated to a white hot glow as it is donned, forever searing the image of the demon onto its wearer’s face. It is done so to serve as a constant reminder to he who sets the path of the Chapter: with the capacity to save one’s soul, comes the capacity to damn it forever.

Their previous incarnation as the Wrath-Forged saw horrendous losses which nearly resulted in extinction, they believe, not only by their own weakness but by that of their charges. The Saviors have come to attest that the Astartes, while warriors first and foremost, are failing their obligation to the Imperium by limiting themselves to such a role. Humanity rightly regards the best and bravest Astartes as heroes, legends walking amongst man. The Saviors aim to make sure these legends embolden more to rise amongst the common man. Put simply, the Saviors aspire to be the epitome of purity, zeal, strength, and courage, and in doing so hope to instill the same qualities in those they fight beside. They strive, bleed, and pray for the day in which the Astartes are obsolete, a day in which the common man will stand with every bit as much faith and fury under His rule.

ORGANIZATION


The Saviors’ organization is largely an orthodox Codex structure, with slight alterations to compensate for their still diminished numbers. Since the original 3 companies at the Chapter’s rebirth, The Saviors have steadily grown back to nearly 8 full fighting companies. Only the 8th Company is a reserve company, while the rest are active in patrols and crusades throughout their steadily growing sphere of influence. The most notable divergence from Codex structure is the lack of a dedicated scout company. Instead, new recruits are split amongst the 2nd through 6th companies. They’ve never been able to amass so many as to require the 7th company take on recruits of its own, which has allowed the 7th to modify its tactics towards a more dangerous, assault oriented version of combat.

It is worth noting that the Chapter could easily have returned to full fighting strength almost a millennium ago should its tactics be more in line with the shock and awe nature of most Astartes. The Chapter’s emphasis on attrition and unorthodox tendencies towards fighting deliberately close to standard Imperial forces has tallied a disproportionate number of casualties over the years: a mathematical truth which The Saviors fully regard as a just and necessary sacrifice.

The only other significant diversion is in the Chapter’s organization of its Librarians. Brothers with psychic powers are required to spend at least some of their initial years in the Reclusiam learning under the Chapter’s Chaplains. This is largely a matter of enforcing The Saviors’ tenets of self-reliance and individual strength: the abilities of a psycher are far too tenuous for any one of them to be lax or unsure of their faith and duty. As such, they are far more strict and particular over candidates with psychic potential, but those who eventually join the ranks of the Librarium are amongst the most capable in the Imperium. Those psychers with zeal to match their strength of mind are sometime chosen to serve in the Reclusiam indefinitely, acting as Chaplains and Librarians simultaneously. Such gifted brothers go to war wearing the grim death masks and psychic hoods of their special office, serving as The Saviors' spiritual guardians both in matters of faith and the Warp.

COMBAT DOCTRINE


Captain Rebelk of the 3rd, The Paragon
Captain Rebelk of 3rd Company has served the chapter for 200 years since his induction as a full battle brother of the Chapter, and has proven peerless in both charisma and marksmanship. Since his first assignment to a Tactical squad, he has boisterously wagered his lovingly customized bolter Misery’s End to any man, Astartes or human, who tallies more enemies of the Imperium by battle’s end. To this day he has never lost the wager, though the overwhelming torrents of fire lain down by invigorated challengers has carried the Chapter and its allies to victory on countless occasions. Rebelk’s well-founded confidence in his skill, coupled with the fervor it instills in his compatriots, is regarded as a shining example of what The Saviors as a whole stand for.
The Saviors’ combat doctrine is as divergent as their religious doctrine. Whereas most Space Marines function as the swift and killing blow in battle, The Saviors are prone to fighting directly alongside Imperial forces, be they PDF, Imperial Guard, Arbites or even Inquisitorial troops (though the latter have on more than one occasion resulted in serious friction). They do this to ensure their example is made clear, and to guide those they protect and serve to become the vision of worthiness they believe the Emperor requires of His children. As an unfortunate consequence, battles involving The Saviors often go on longer than a conflict should with Astartes assistance, resulting in higher casualty rates for the Chapter and their charges alike. Whereas the uncaring strategists and analysts of the Imperium see this as unnecessary, The Saviors are wholeheartedly convinced in the need and virtue of this sacrifice.

On the battlefield, The Saviors forces largely prescribe to a doctrine of ranged attrition. Alongside human troopers, wave after wave of lethal barrages are unloaded into the enemy, be they advancing or fortified. On those occasions where the foe is determined and numerous enough to reach The Saviors' lines, battle brothers adopt an approach of sheer brute strength. Their slow reflexes, like those of their parent chapter, mean few brothers claim specialized titles like "swordsman" or "duelist." Instead, aggressors are cut asunder and smashed to pulp in overpowering strikes of blades, hammers, and fists, with little concern for grace or skill, though each blow is charged with the need to both protect and galvanize their adopted brothers and sisters.

There have been numerous occasions where The Saviors act in more traditional Astartes fashion, drop podding into the heart of the enemy and tearing it out with ruthless efficiency. However, this is most often done when The Saviors are certain that such an act will serve as much good for morale as tactics, often waiting until the brutal act can be seen by allied forces. Whereas The Saviors see this as another method for fanning the flames of zeal in their allies’ hearts, most other Astartes see it as vainglorious at best.

The only time in which The Saviors will fight in full Astartes tradition is on those rare occasions in which they fight alone. If there are no other forces to inspire, they see no need to prolong conflicts and risk excessive casualties as their general tactics normally will, instead driving strait into the enemy force’s heart and eviscerating it with all available force.

GENE-SEED


The gene-seed of the Chapter shows no signs of mutation since its first removal from the vaults on Mars. It is every bit as pure a seed of Vulkan as that of their parent Chapter. However, the environment of Drakemaw, Kadis III, and the other planets in which The Saviors draw most of their recruits do not create the same pigmentation mutations as those famous within the Salamanders. The predispositions for slow, calculated action, as well as technology and craftsmanship, remain strong.

RELATIONS OF NOTE


The Saviors have on more than one occasion come to have bitter dealings with Inquisitorial forces. The Inquisition sees nothing but danger and suspicion when a force of Astartes actively involves itself not only with “lesser” Imperial forces, but in preaching to them. This has not yet resulted in open conflict between the two, as forces which have mingled with The Saviors have invariably proven utterly loyal and zealous to the Emperor after hostilities cease. The Saviors’ peculiar vision of the Emperor, as well as the admiration their previous allies hold for the Chapter, are still more than enough to keep very keen eyes focused on their activities, regardless.

Relations with other Astartes Chapters are often tenuous, as well. Other Space Marines have tended to see The Saviors’ ideals and goals as anywhere from pretentious to blasphemous. The Saviors, in turn, are rarely reluctant to point out what they see as failings on the part of other Chapters: particularly their self imposed limitations as warriors and warriors alone. They still hold a fairly constant line of communication with the Salamanders, often aligning their campaigns with that of their parent Chapter should the need arise. However, the steadily diverging dogma of their successor has not escaped the attention of the Salamanders’ more suspicious battle-brothers.

HOMEWORLD


Drakemaw is a small moon of a large gas giant, Kadis II. The moon is a rough and inhospitable mixture of frigid temperatures brought on by its distance from the sun and powerful tectonic activity resulting in violent eruptions and quakes. The largest volcano, from which the moon draws its name, is located at the northern pole of Drakemaw, and houses the Chapter’s Fortress monastery: an imposing pillar standing atop a bedrock of basalt and technologically shielded by the volcano’s scarce but immense eruptions.

The inhabitants of Drakemaw were the initial sole source of recruits for the Chapter, and live in a tribal, nomadic society. The merciless cold and angry tremors of the moon forge a hardy, pragmatic people ripe for recruitment by those they collectively regard as “The Shining Giants,” though the relatively meager population, combined with the Chapter’s initial losses, forced The Saviors to begin recruitment from other worlds in their sector, most notably Kadis III.

BATTLE CRY


The Saviors use a variety of liturgies, prayers, and chants to inspire those around them in war. The most common refrains among them are "Nos es humanus! Es legio! Es salus!" and "Protelo est ministro!"

TORTUGA'S TRIUMPH

The Battle for Tortuga’s Triumph stands as one of the proudest and most costly moment’s in the Savior’s history. Tortuga’s Triumph is a colony of densely packed mining and refinery constructs lodged deep in a narrow gorge on the world of Adalma Secundus, home to thousands of Imperial citizens. When the world came under siege by Waaagh Jabgobba, The Saviors responded to the desperate distress calls with the full might of its 5th company.

Following their doctrines, the Astartes drop pods rained down from the atmosphere to interpose The Saviors between the oncoming green tide and the hastily fortified colony. The company’s command ventured into the district itself, urging the residents to take up arms and defend their homes as all humanity must. Understandably terrified by the oncoming horde, the local citizens failed to muster the courage The Saviors demanded of them, and so in a bold pact Captain Horion swore his company’s banner would stand a full mile from the city’s walls, and that not one of his marines would either advance or fall back from the position until the colonists came to join them in battle and drive the Orks from their world altogether.

The ultimatum proved far more costly for The Saviors than Horion had hoped, for after a full three days of combat with little cover to be had inside the narrow gorge, those they had come to save stayed locked inside their barricaded shelter. Of the 100 marines who held the line against the endless waves of brutish xenos, scantly a quarter remained when, to their horror, the sounds of battle erupted from behind the cordon within the colony itself. Sporadic fire and human screams echoed down from one end of the canyon as hellish battle cries and roars of the Orks rose from the other. Though within the hour, the gates came down, and the crudely armed residents poured from the colony to join their heroes. It was only after the Waaagh was repelled that Horion, grievously wounded himself and still clutching the tattered banner he had planted three nightmarish days hence, heard the truth of what had occurred.

The residents had begun to rally and find their zeal by nightfall of the first day, though the Governor and his guard demanded they stay within the barricade. The corrupt fool had calculated that even if the company was lost, more reinforcements were on the way, and saw little sense in wasting the workforce which had brought him such prestige in needless battle. It was only on the third day that the populous finally rose up and overthrew the armed guards locking them inside, taking their weapons and whatever they could swing at an Ork with them to join the fray. The Governor’s head was presented to the Astartes Captain by the leader of the uprising as penance for their hesitation. Dozens of young men who had taken part in the rebellion and lived through the following clash with the Orks also volunteered themselves for recruitment, driven by their guilt and awe in equal measure.

Thus, Tortuga’s Triumph stands as a glorious but bitter memory for The Saviors. Though their losses were grave due to the arrogance of a single coward, the colony found the courage to not only join them in battle, but to challenge the Imperial hierarchy to do what they knew was right. Horion himself tells the story every century at the Chapter’s holiday feast to celebrate the victory, his voice carrying far and loud from the blessed Dreadnought which has sustained him since the battle. To end the retelling, all the names of the Astartes and colonists who fell that day are listed one by one as “brothers and sisters eternal, a beacon to our purpose and a flame of His Hope in the darkness of the galaxy.”

Edited by Firepower, 16 September 2010 - 08:58 PM.

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#2
Lysimachus

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So, as for questions, first of all is it a decent concept?


On the whole, I think so! It's certainly unusual, which is always good, and you seem to have thought of most of the issues that being the way they are would raise. The only thing I'd add is that the tactics you've described go totally against what Astartes are usually about. Normally they're a strike force; get in, do the job better and faster than anyone else could, and get out again. However, it seems like they'd get rather bogged down (physically in battles but also perhaps more emotionally connected to the people they're trying to encourage?) and that would limit their effectiveness in the role they are meant to play. Not saying that's a reason not to do it, but just something to bear in mind!

a good backstory explaining this disposition is necessary


Id have to think of a Primarch who would have a similar enough disposition (Vulkan is the only one that comes to mind, maybe Sanguinius)


You might be able to do it as an 'evolution' of a Primarch's viewpoint. Vulkan makes more sense to me; definately more 'humanitarian', don't have to worry about the whole Red Thirst/Black Rage thing of the BA, and don't see that many Salamander successors so that's cool too. Then you have a good base to build from, think you would still need some kind of additional back story to explain how they've gone even further in their view though...


Edit: Meant to say, I like the colour choices you've gone for and the Chapter badge idea is very clever. The only thing I'd say is that the colour scheme seems a bit... scattered? Perhaps it's a personal preference thing, but I think schemes look better with more solid blocks of colour? Oh, and trust me, white bolters are an almighty pain in the rear end (see my 4th Co. link) :tu:

Edited by Strike Captain Lysimachus, 29 July 2010 - 07:08 AM.


#3
Firepower

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On the whole, I think so! It's certainly unusual, which is always good, and you seem to have thought of most of the issues that being the way they are would raise. The only thing I'd add is that the tactics you've described go totally against what Astartes are usually about. Normally they're a strike force; get in, do the job better and faster than anyone else could, and get out again. However, it seems like they'd get rather bogged down (physically in battles but also perhaps more emotionally connected to the people they're trying to encourage?) and that would limit their effectiveness in the role they are meant to play. Not saying that's a reason not to do it, but just something to bear in mind!


Yeah, I know. This is sort of the idea I am going for too, oddly enough. One way of putting it is that the Saviors have come to see themselves as weapons of Humanity more than weapons of the Emperor (again, one of many reasons they are not well liked). It's a distinction Im aware most Astartes would consider in itself heresy. At any rate, it means they acknowledge the need to annihilate the enemy, but are more concerned that by their example and tutelage, the humans they protect will learn to do the same for themselves. If it will help morale and lead their charges further into the fray, I would imagine the Saviors gladly dropping from the sky into the heart of the enemy as Astartes usually do, though they would make sure it was in plain sight of any allied humans (an act other Astartes might consider vain, waiting to do what should be their duty in the first place until someone is there to acknowledge it :P ).

I think this is something that could extend through all echelons of the Chapter, even to scouts leading un-altered humans on covert strikes. The scouts would thus learn early on how to teach the non-Astartes, and why (if their charges dont learn, it will likely get both parties killed).


You might be able to do it as an 'evolution' of a Primarch's viewpoint. Vulkan makes more sense to me; definately more 'humanitarian', don't have to worry about the whole Red Thirst/Black Rage thing of the BA, and don't see that many Salamander successors so that's cool too. Then you have a good base to build from, think you would still need some kind of additional back story to explain how they've gone even further in their view though...


Yeah, Id like to avoid Sanguinius for that very reason. I always felt the BA were a bit tricky to radically alter even in successors, since their own fluff is so lengthily developed as is. But in terms of the events that lead the Saviors to their calling, I was thinking fatigue and weariness might be the best and most reasonable option. Prior to taking on their current mantle, the Chapter would've patrolled a wide sector of space, finding themselves guarding the same planets time and again from xenos and heretics, always protecting mewling sheep that called themselves humans. Since they cant win every time, it would be inevitable that some of these planets do eventually fall, and the Chapter is left with a moral crossroads. They could let bitterness and spite for their protectorates' weakness and their own impotence in saving them consume their souls. Or they could rediscover for themselves what it means to be the Grandsons of the God Emperor, the sons of a Primarch, both mighty leaders of men as much as they were warriors.

Obviously they take the second option.

Edit: Meant to say, I like the colour choices you've gone for and the Chapter badge idea is very clever. The only thing I'd say is that the colour scheme seems a bit... scattered? Perhaps it's a personal preference thing, but I think schemes look better with more solid blocks of colour? Oh, and trust me, white bolters are an almighty pain in the rear end (see my 4th Co. link) :P


To each their own ;) Thanks for the comment on the insignia though, i was kinda proud of myself there. It's been a long standing bane of mine to come up with ideas for either a Chapter or an insignia that i really liked, but not matched pairs :P . I know what you mean about the white weapons, too, though I cant help but feel it adds an important balance to the dark and shiny colors already present. Will have to think on it more :)

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#4
Odsox

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I like the idea! A lot! Taking the humanitarianism of the Salamanders and taking it further. With fire and steel, obviously.

You could play them as a kind of Legion of the Damned for mortals! Might even be able to use their rules!

As for worrying about them being "nice" - don't. Unless you make them kitten-keeping, pink, frilly marines who'd rather help paint houses than purge aliens, I doubt they'll be in any great danger.

Keep it up though, I'd like to know more. :)

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#5
Hemal

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These could be the diametric opposite of say Vinyard and his ilk, i.e. seeing the humans they protect as much more than either cannon-fodder, or even, as some marines look upon them (somewhat patronisingly, I feel) children to be shepherded. The "show a man he's a man" thing is good, and maybe they can operate like the Mentors, as cadres that assign themselves to Imperial units in need of bolstering in terms of leadership?

Perhaps the chapter symbol is missing something - maybe you could put a small planet symbol there to indicate the worlds of humanity the chapter is trying to assist? Much like how teh World Eaters symbol shows that they grind up entire worlds.....
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#6
Leonaides

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They could still follow Sang's viewpoint of attempting to better humanity without being direct descendants of the BA's...

One thing I think you will have to deal with in your IA (and this really isnt in an attempt to dissuade you from following this concept as I find it interesting) is that Astartes leading IG is something that has been banned since the Heresy, with the division of marines, navy and IG. Your marines can train IG alright, but leading them in battle on more than the very odd occasion will be frowned upon seriously, with lots of Inquisiton interest, and other marine chapters will be very wary of them in case of being damned by association. Just something to remember, and possibly a plot hook for theri dealing with the rest of the Imperial military.

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#7
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As for worrying about them being "nice" - don't. Unless you make them kitten-keeping, pink, frilly marines who'd rather help paint houses than purge aliens, I doubt they'll be in any great danger.


Kittens are not to be tolerated. Just check my siggy :P . And they arent pink, but a very manly....purple.

Perhaps the chapter symbol is missing something - maybe you could put a small planet symbol there to indicate the worlds of humanity the chapter is trying to assist? Much like how teh World Eaters symbol shows that they grind up entire worlds.....


I dont quite know about the planet thing. Multi colored chapter symbols are very tricky to balance just right in my experience, and if it were just white it would look like some indistinct blob :lol: . Though Im thinking of adding the corona of a halo over the top of the hand...

One thing I think you will have to deal with in your IA (and this really isnt in an attempt to dissuade you from following this concept as I find it interesting) is that Astartes leading IG is something that has been banned since the Heresy, with the division of marines, navy and IG. Your marines can train IG alright, but leading them in battle on more than the very odd occasion will be frowned upon seriously, with lots of Inquisiton interest, and other marine chapters will be very wary of them in case of being damned by association. Just something to remember, and possibly a plot hook for theri dealing with the rest of the Imperial military.


I wasnt quite thinking of having the Saviors blend into the very ranks of the IG, a la "leading" them, but simply working closely with those under their protection as SM's are prone to do, like Armageddon and Cadia, for example. It does raise a good point though. The way the Saviors are shaping up right now has them balanced on a knife's edge of heretical in a lot of respects, and would put those they work with (including those IG they hope to inspire) at risk simply by association. I'll have to be very delicate in thinking out how "OK, these guys are different, but not SO different that the very people they are hoping to inspire are too afraid of repercussions to fight alongside them." I foresee a lot of rough drafts and editing :)

They could still follow Sang's viewpoint of attempting to better humanity without being direct descendants of the BA's...


True enough. In regards to their geneseed, Im still leaning towards having them not exactly revere their Primarch to the same extent as most chapters, instead focusing on following the example of the Emperor Himself. In essence, it would be similar to worshiping the Emperor as the head of a pantheon of Apostles, regarding each Primarch with equal respect for the lessons they exemplify in molding humanity towards its ultimate potential.

One thought I've come up with which Im considering is the idea of a 1st Company of Avatars: each veteran taking up the name of one aspect of His example (i.e. Brother Joe-Bob becomes "Virtue," Brother Vinny becomes "Wrath," etc.). In turn, perhaps each other Company reflects the aspect of one given Primarch: scouts shaped by the teachings of Corax, Assault teams shaped by Sanguinius, Devastators by Vulkan and Dorn, and so forth.

The idea of Astartes representing themselves as Emperor incarnate, even only one aspect of his personality, would be just one more reason that other Astartes and the Inquisition regard the Saviors with what would be generously called distrust. I think the biggest problem I'll have is boiling down all these heretical ideas to a point where it doesnt scream "EXCOMMUNICATE US ALREADY!"

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#8
Wulff

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jeez firepower..

your going to put the ultramarine out of business..

LOL

ohh well.. good luck

Wulff

#9
Bjorn Firewalker

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If anything they could be described as very determined optimists.

This is a sentiment I wholeheartedly agree with: "I will help to make the world a better place... by blowing the :cuss out of anything that dares obstruct our journey to a better world."

Too many :cuss -heads try to force the real world- and real people- to conform to their ideals, becoming monstrous hypocrits in the process. (Cough! The morons responsible for Mobile Suit Gundam, John Ney Rieber, Gene Roddenberry, cough!)
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#10
Grey Hunter Ydalir

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You could play them as a kind of Legion of the Damned for mortals! Might even be able to use their rules!


<_<

Don't bring rules into it. This is fluff. What he does on the tabletop is a different kettle of fish all together. The rules should never justify the fluff.

The Octaguide.
The Thousand Marine Myth.

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#11
Firepower

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If anything they could be described as very determined optimists.

This is a sentiment I wholeheartedly agree with: "I will help to make the world a better place... by blowing the :) out of anything that dares obstruct our journey to a better world."

Too many :cuss -heads try to force the real world- and real people- to conform to their ideals, becoming monstrous hypocrits in the process. (Cough! The morons responsible for Mobile Suit Gundam, John Ney Rieber, Gene Roddenberry, cough!)


Not quite the sentiment I had in mind, but I did enjoy the mini-rant all the same <_< .

What you've described is sort of the "We know what's best, and we wont let anyone stand in our way to make it happen," mentality which a lot of chapters already have (Black Templars, for example).

The idea of the Saviors is more "We know what's best, and we'll bear the burden no matter the cost to ourselves." What i like about this is that there is actually an inherent level of hypocrisy, one which would put them at odds with many more standard Imperial forces.

For instance, the Saviors fight on the front lines alongside human forces, to better lead by example and help guide those around them to their potential. In doing so, they would be neglecting the standard Astartes tactic of drop podding into the heart of the enemy and cutting off its head, thus prolonging the conflict and increasing casualties not only for themselves but also for the very people they are trying to save.

It serves to make for some interesting conflict between the Saviors and other forces, as well as possible inner conflict for the chapter itself (the balancing act between ethos and lofty goals versus stark, bitter reality). I.E.- "Today we saved a thousand guardsmen, and showed them the strength of their own spirits, their true potential as human beings. Had we acted as most Astartes, we could've saved ten thousand, but they'd be the same mewling, stagnant creatures that exemplify our crumbling Imperium. Decisions, decisions!"

This is what i meant by "determined optimists".

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#12
Aqui

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It serves to make for some interesting conflict between the Saviors and other forces, as well as possible inner conflict for the chapter itself (the balancing act between ethos and lofty goals versus stark, bitter reality). I.E.- "Today we saved a thousand guardsmen, and showed them the strength of their own spirits, their true potential as human beings. Had we acted as most Astartes, we could've saved ten thousand, but they'd be the same mewling, stagnant creatures that exemplify our crumbling Imperium. Decisions, decisions!"

This is what i meant by "determined optimists".


So, what you're saying is that the Saviours are trying to save the heart and soul of Humanity, as well as Humanity physically (even if it means a lot of Humanity die in the mean time)

I can relate to that :P

In the darkness between the stars, the weak and the faithless find no deliverance. We are raised to believe that the God-Emperor watches over us all. And so we are charged to cleanse the mutant, the heretic and the alien. We must not falter. We are His sword. We are His wrath. Even in the face of death, we shall not submit. Suffering is our prayer. Faith is our armour. In Battle He offers us redemption. And for those who proves their worth, the Emperor sends sends forth His Angels!

 

Watch this space...


#13
Bjorn Firewalker

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What you've described is sort of the "We know what's best, and we wont let anyone stand in our way to make it happen," mentality which a lot of chapters already have (Black Templars, for example).

The idea of the Saviors is more "We know what's best, and we'll bear the burden no matter the cost to ourselves." What i like about this is that there is actually an inherent level of hypocrisy, one which would put them at odds with many more standard Imperial forces.

Well, what I described is more "We know what's best, we'll bear our share of the burden- and make OTHER PEOPLE bear THEIR share of the burden." It may be callous and self-serving, but nowhere as hypocritical as the examples seen in Mobile Suit Gundam, Marvel Comics, or Star Trek.

For instance, the Saviors fight on the front lines alongside human forces, to better lead by example and help guide those around them to their potential. In doing so, they would be neglecting the standard Astartes tactic of drop podding into the heart of the enemy and cutting off its head, thus prolonging the conflict and increasing casualties not only for themselves but also for the very people they are trying to save.

It serves to make for some interesting conflict between the Saviors and other forces, as well as possible inner conflict for the chapter itself (the balancing act between ethos and lofty goals versus stark, bitter reality). I.E.- "Today we saved a thousand guardsmen, and showed them the strength of their own spirits, their true potential as human beings. Had we acted as most Astartes, we could've saved ten thousand, but they'd be the same mewling, stagnant creatures that exemplify our crumbling Imperium. Decisions, decisions!"

This is what i meant by "determined optimists".

Sounds fair.
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#14
Wulff

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Laughing out loud..

Only you firepower would come up with the concept of attrition for the masses via saviourdom!..


Did the kitty whisper that or was it just a herald of chaos???

Wulff

#15
Thor Lokiago

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Well, the first thing that came to mind when I read your original post was Dorn. Your symbol is a hand, you want a chapter that focuses on defense. And Dorn was the Emperor's custodian towards the end of the Heresy, so theres' a certain closeness to the Emperor he gives off. However, Vulkan or Sang definitely have a closer ideal to what you want your guys to have.

My other thought is that it is going to be (as you have said several times) EXTREMELY difficult not to get offed by the inquisition. I think at one point you brought up a possible event where your marines have cleansed a planet of heresy and the Inquisition chooses to bombard it anyway, and how that would be a moral issue to you guys. That happened with the Celestial Lions and they ended up being almost completely obliterated (they believe through the power of the inquisition).

Might want to check these guys out. http://wh40k.lexican...Celestial_Lions
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#16
Captain Juan Juarez

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Good idea oh Hater of Xenos Psyker Kittens.

It will be an interesting read to be sure, but as for my input:

The telling point will come from where you decide the Chapter says: "These people are the Imperium, so we fight for them!"

Even should you chose to proceed from a Primarch using an evolution of their personal opinion, this kind of thing is rarely instantaeneous (sp?); you will surely need an incident that is the fulcrum for this change.
" They made you to be untouched by God or mortal. As I cannot kill you, so I curse you, not with death but with life.

I curse you - with the pain of ten thousand days in the Dark Place, with the life's blood of a mage's sacrifice, with Death's authority held in my hands.

I curse you, and I strike your name from history, stripped of arrogance and pride, empty of the self you once knew, gutted of all you are. I take your name and all you have won by the strength of your hand. I curse you for eternity, to find only darkness where once you knew your own face.

And I dub you the Ragged Man."

#17
Firepower

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ORIGINS:

Chapter of the 15th Founding, the Salamanders gene-stock.

Original Name: The Wrath-Forged

At the Chapter's inception, the Wrath-Forged performed, largely, according to doctrine prescribed by their parent Chapter, the Salamanders. Propensity for slow and careful strategies and action, a natural affinity for the fires of the forge, and a (relatively) compassionate view of the Imperium's children were their hallmarks, along with a seeming predisposition for bad fortunes.

The region of space which the Wrath-Forged made their base of operations, the Fraxian sector, was home to just shy of two dozen populated Imperial worlds with a range of resources and environments, counting twin hive worlds, a major agri-world, and a death-world moon, dubbed Drakemaw by the Wrath-Forged in reference the to massive volcano at its northern pole, from which the Chapter drew most of its recruits. Though the sector was largely productive and fairly fruitful compared to many Imperial regions of space, it did not reside close to any major tactical centers, and so endured relative isolation from Imperial assistance.

It was this isolation which left the Wrath-Forged to suffer an inexplicably constant series of invasions by xenos and traitorous forces within the first several centuries of its presence in the Fraxian sector. No sooner would the sons of Vulkan repel a massive Waaagh! from one world than to turn around and be forced to fend off Dark Eldar piratical raids from another across the sector. No sooner would the dark kin of the Eldar be vanquished when Traitor Legion vessels would emerge from the warp to threaten yet another world. Reluctantly, the Wrath-Forged found themselves calling for assistance from nearby regions, only to be left with little to no reply from an Imperium who's concerns laid in more tactically significant areas of space. Inevitably, humanity began to lose ground in the sector, until fully half of the once prosperous corner of the galaxy was left uninhabitable or crippled by the ravages of constant warfare. Of the two hive worlds that once stood, only one remained habitable and in some semblance of working order. Other planets which once served as home to nations full of Imperial citizens were left in tatters, populated only by bands of a few thousand embittered survivors. The Chapter itself was likewise crippled, reduced to little more than 300 marines when matters finally came to a breaking point.

It was after yet another incursion by the greenskins and the subsequent, costly war that the Wrath-Forged found themselves a moment's respite for the first time in centuries. Feelings of bitterness for the uncaring blind eye of the Imperial bureaucracy, the weakness of their charges to defend themselves without the aid of the struggling Chapter, and even their own ill fortune at inheriting such a burdensome protectorate began to fester once the break from constant battle left time for the marines' minds to turn inward. Even with the deeply ingrained value of self-reliance their gene-father had instilled in the Wrath-Forged, the Chapter couldn't help but grate against the seemingly endless and inexplicable trial of their faith and vigilance. The Chapter Master at the time, Ju'ker, was forced to withdraw to the fires of the forge and meditate upon the fate of his fledgling Chapter. He stayed locked inside the Chapter's forges for weeks until, as it always did, news of another threat reached the Chapter's Fortress Monastery on Drakemaw. Kadis III, seemingly echoing the Chapter's own misgivings, had broken out in rebellion, citing their ill lot and the Imperium's lack of concern as nothing short of abandonment by the Emperor Himself.

It was then that Ju'ker finally emerged from the forge, his helm abandoned and his face veiled by a simple, elegant mask of polished steel, void of any features beyond those shimmering off its mirrored surface. He stood over the vanguard begrudgingly preparing to make war on those who they couldn't help but sympathize with, and in a zealous oratory, denounced the feelings of self pity and loathing for circumstance that had grown like a cancer inside himself and his brothers. He claimed to see Vulkan, and the God Emperor Himself in the flames of his forge, whom chastised and rebuked the Master for his moment of weakness. In a rousing oratory, he proclaimed "Look! You, and all those we protect, have turned outward for salvation. Here you will see the only true salvation, in your own image is your only true Savior! If you should find him wanting, the Emperor has no need of your weakness!"

So it was that the Wrath-Forged were pulled from the brink of their own damnation. The Chapter realized it could not count on the notion of a caring universe, no more than the people they protect could count on them for eternal protection from all the cruelties the galaxy had to offer. The small force still remaining after centuries of attrition made for Kadis III with all due haste, arriving from the sky to land among the front lines of the beleaguered defenders who were more interested in surviving the madness before them than high notions of fighting for Imperial law that had abandoned them long ago. Ju'ker called for their valor, to prove and reforge themselves as he and his Chapter had done, and his marines echoed the call across the line, burning fire and zeal into the hearts of the outnumbered defense forces. As one the cry came up along the line, drowning out artillery, shell, and rifle in a sonorous roar: "Nos es humanus! Es legio! Es salus!" [translated: "We are human! We are legion! We are salvation!"]

The resultant clash has come to be a hallmark of the Wrath-Forged, now known simply as the Saviors. Casualties were high, higher than they would have been should the Chapter had dropped strait into the heart of the rebel army. But those left alive have become a bulwark of faith and strength in the sector, and Kadis III has come to represent an equal share of stern and fire-hearted viable recruits for the Chapter as the furious environment of Drakemaw, and has been a firebreak in the sector's constant ill luck with incursions ever since.

The mirrored helm, which has come to be known as Salvation's Visage, remains the badge of office for the Chapter Master to this day.

Edited by Firepower, 30 August 2010 - 10:16 PM.

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#18
Leonaides

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Several forge worlds and didnt get much in the way of imperial assistance? When each forge world will have legions of Skitarii, possibly even a Titan legion? And amongst 2 dozen (so we're talking about multiple forge worlds within a group of somewhere around 24 worlds?) Thats not a backwater. Thats an industrial powerhouse! 2 major agri-worlds, do they just feed the forge worlds? Cos if they are major agri-worlds then any threat o them is a major threat to the world they feed.

Worth a reconsider?

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#19
Firepower

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Several forge worlds and didnt get much in the way of imperial assistance? When each forge world will have legions of Skitarii, possibly even a Titan legion? And amongst 2 dozen (so we're talking about multiple forge worlds within a group of somewhere around 24 worlds?) Thats not a backwater. Thats an industrial powerhouse! 2 major agri-worlds, do they just feed the forge worlds? Cos if they are major agri-worlds then any threat o them is a major threat to the world they feed.

Worth a reconsider?


Probably, yes. I was trying to make the system independent enough to have survived without Imperial support for a while, but I guess i got a little overzealous. As for agri-worlds, I was under the impression that 2 productive ones would be about right for supporting nearly 24 in total. Are my mythical logistics off?

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#20
soddinnutter

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Most worlds in the Imperium must be self sufficient. The transport cost alone must be huge in moving a planets worth of food around.

Agri-worlds i would imagine would supply the navy. a ship with 500,000 crew mwmbers need a lot of food.

If there was a Forge World in that patch of space it would be protected. so would the surrounding systems to an extent.

ditch the Forge Worlds. If the Imperium would not send them aid the Mechanicus would.

plenty of other types of worlds out there. although take into acount that without ancient terra-forming work, of human or xeno origin, chances are none of the worlds are going to be inhabitable.

Because none of us are as cruel as all of us.


#21
Firepower

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Noted and fixed. I did a quick read on agri-worlds, and they serve to feed the massive armies of the IG, but also to sustain life on Hive Worlds whose methods of self sustenance are limited, so I kept one for that sake.

Spatial geography aside, how is the rest of it?

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#22
Firepower

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Bump with boku content- got the whole first draft whipped up and ready for review. Sorry if the first bit is a bit long, but the ORIGINS section really shapes the whole thing, and I'm struggling to edit it down to something more compact ^_^ . Unfortunately I had to wiipe the original post to make this more traditionally formatted, so the first few replies to this thread will likely sound a bit odd now, with no reference and whatnot. Oh well :P

Thanks much for the help and interest thus far! if anyone would be so kind, I could use some help editing a Marine Painter image to include the chapter's insignia, as i have absolutely 0 experience in computer paint/photoshop programs. It would probably a lot better than the WIP pic I have just now.

(also, on a side note, tips/criticisms of the formatting would be welcome, too. I haven't played around with B&C code much :( )

Edited by Firepower, 04 September 2010 - 06:04 PM.

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#23
Firepower

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Can I get a self bump? You certainly can brother. Thank you kind sir! <evidence of impending mental health issues resulting from a lack of human interaction>

Hehe a couple of things added, namely my first concept for a Special Character-esque fellow, and a teensy bit of fluffy history to make the whole thing a bit less nuts n' bolts-ey. Again, pointers on formatting, writing, and the whole idea as a whole are encouraged and welcomed (be harsh, I can take it :lol: ). I'd like to submit these guys to the Librarium at some point, so refinement is key.

Also, I'll replace the test model pic with a more standard SM Painter pic if/when some help I've attempted to enlist can slap the Chapter Symbol on it :D

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#24
soddinnutter

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I can not think of anything to say. It look complete.

Also; good mini

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#25
SpecialIssue

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Yes, it does look rather finished. I might just want to to say one other thing to take into consideration.

The current theme is quite good, with the whole 'glorious saviors' theme fitting well into the golden colour scheme and background of the golden mask. To make your chapter stand out, IMO it is always good to have a well defined ideal that people will remember when they see your marines, usually summarised into two words describing their temperment and the persona or occupation they're based on, eg. black templars are 'zealous crusaders', or ultramarines are 'honorable romans' (my chapter is aimed to evoke 'heartless judges'). I am currently having a harder time finding such a simple description for The Saviors.

It is always good to also base a chapter on an idea we can concretely relate to and picture - on the B&C right now the Death Heads (pirates) and Emperor's Pride (lions) are good examples. The Saviors I think could benefit from a clearer emphasis on the golden masks they seem to idolise and the renaissance vibe that I have a glimmering of, to become perhaps an 'optimist renaissance' chapter.
Just my rambling 2 cents. B)

EDIT: Blasted double-post thingy!

Edited by SpecialIssueAmmo, 08 September 2010 - 05:36 AM.

Alis aquilae, judicium - On eagle's wings, judgement.
Ex astra, mortis - From the stars, death.

Fiat justitia, etiam mundi mori - Let there be justice, even though worlds die.

 

~ the Guardian Eagles

 

W40k - a gothic military fantasy, in that order.

 

Analysis of the 41st Millennium - boltguns, chainswords, Space Marine capabilities

 





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