The stats of a Primarch

[The Son of Russ]

I was wondering, if say in next edition of 40k, the codices were given the option of having primarchs in an apocalypse game, what do you think each primarchs stats will be?

I will start off. I think Russ would have:

HQ:

Leman Russ- Points value 800 points.

 

WS 10

BS 9

W 5

S 7

T 7

I 8

Ld 10

Wargear and special rules:

Mjolnir: Mjolnir is a frost blade that confers +2 strength instead of the usual +1. It also allows Russ to re-roll his to hit rolls.

Runic Dreadnought Armour: Russ armour was thrice blessed by the Emperor himself. Russ has a 2+ armour save and a 3+ invulnerable save. If Russ should fail his armour save, he gets a re-roll to any armour save on a 4+

Eternal Warrior: Russ is immune to instant death.

The Wolf King: Any space wolf unit, even wolf units, within 18" of The Primarch have LD10 and may re-roll any failed leadership roll. Thunderwolves and Fenrisian wolves may join any unit, even non wolfen units, since they belong and answer to Russ and Russ alone!

Upgrade option:

 

Freki and Geri: Freki and Geri have the stats of a thunderwolf, and any attacks made by them ignore armour saves. They are clad in blessed armour, blessed by many a rune priest. They both have 2+ armour saves. They are 80 points each.

[Wispy]

Didn't you already post a thread like this?

 

The frostblade is named Mjalnar, and a frost blade is usually +1 to strength, not two. Personally, when you have base strength 7, giving the dude a weapon that further enhances his strength boring.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

How many attacks would the All Father have??

 

6 base?

 

I like this idea, as I keep seeing the limited edition Russ model of ebay et al, and I really like it. Of course, I do not like the prices it usually goes for...

 

I hope they do release an official rulebook or text on using Primarchs in the 40K game soon.

 

-R_P_R

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Primarchs appear to have been pretty close to Daemon Princes in stats, so that would probably be a good start. Although Primarchs did beat things like Bloodthirsters in combat, it's never described as an easy fight, so we can assume that they wouldn't be better than Bloodthirster stats.

 

Leman Russ is recorded as tearing apart a Titan, so there can be a reasonable expectation that they should be treated as a monstrous creature in combat.

 

A Daemon Prince, in the present game, is WS7 BS5 S6 T5 W4 I5 A4 Ld10 3+/5++ for 110 points with Eternal Warrior.

 

Now those are merely Marines who have risen to that level, so it seems reasonable to say that a basic Primarch should be better.

 

I'd say a basic Primarch should be WS8 BS6 S7 T6 W5 I6 A5 Ld10 2+/4++ with Eternal Warrior. I'd provisionally price them at 200 points. Then modify them based on their fluff.

 

Leman Russ for example should have +1 WS S and A for an extra 45 points. Sanguinus should have wings, and +1I for 30 points. Lion El'Jonson wouldn't have a stats change, but some rules regarding gaining a tactical advantage rather than a physical one and so on.

[ImperialGuardian]

Well, they have released stats for Daemon Primarch Angron, which completely busts your S7 T7 theory.

 

I don't think I can give away his entire stat line, but in terms of physical build stats, the Daemon Primarch only has S7 T6 W5

 

I think this means that even making the normal Primarch S6 T6 is a push. This is where I get really mad at GW for giving Cassius T6 and Mephiston S6 T6. I think Mephiston is essentially our guideline for basic Primarch stats. I hope they wanted him to be that powerful when they made him.

[ImperialGuardian]

I just checked and Mephoston's stats are posted on the Games-Workshop site so I will share them here:

 

WS7 BS5 S6 T6 W5 I7 A4 Ld10 Sv2+

 

This gives him equal toughness, higher initiative, and a better regular save than Daemon Primarch Angron. If I remember correctly he has no invulnerable save though.

 

My full primarch suggestion would be:

WS8 BS6 S6 T6 W5 I6 A4 Ld10 Sv2+(4++)

[Wispy]

Honestly, if Primarchs are to marines as marines are to humans, then it should be T5, S5. Mephiston blows this out of the water, and makes me think Matt Ward really likes things like Dragonball.

 

 

Seeing as Angron is T6, I think we should draw the line there.

[Blitzkreig]

My take on Russ's stats... I am not adding a points value as I tend to over-cost things by a huge margin.

 

WS - 8

BS - 5

S - 5

T - 5

W - 5

I - 6

A - 5

Ld - 10

Wargear:

Rune armour of Russ

Mjalnar

The Wolf's Fang (modified bolt pistol)

Wolf-tooth Necklace

Frag and Krak Grenades

Freki and Geri

 

Rune Armour of Russ:

Russ wears a suit of armour which has been blessed by The Emperor himself. He has a 2+ armour save and 4+ Invulnerable save.

 

Mjalnar:

Mjalnar is the great Frost Blade of Russ and as such is a power weapon which adds +2 Strength instead of the normal +1.

 

The Wolf's Fang:

The Wolf's Fang is a Bolt Pistol with the following profile:

 

Strength - 5 - AP - 4 - Range 24" - Pistol

 

Freki and Geri:

The Monstrous Beasts which accompany Russ to War, Freki and Geri are Blackmaned Wolves of near-human intelligence. They are treated as Fenrisian Wolves with the following profile:

 

WS - 5

BS - 0

S - 5

T - 5

W - 3

I - 5

A - 4

Ld - 10

 

Special Rules:

Fearless, Acute Senses, Counter-Attack

 

Special Rules:

Fearless - Eternal Warrior - Primarch - Acute Sense - Counter-Attack - Independent Character - Saga of the Wolf King

 

Primarch:

The Primarchs are the fathers of the Space Marine Legions, while they walk the battle field their progeny will fight harder than ever in the defence of Mankind. All Space Wolves (including Fenrisian Wolves, Cyber Wolves and Thunderwolves) on the table benefit from the Fearless USR.

 

Should Russ be slain, leave the model in place. If the mission being played uses objectives he counts as an extra objective and all Space Wolves benefit from the Rending and Furious Charge USRs. If the mission being played uses Kill Points, remove the model, but all Space Wolves will benefit from the Rending and Furious Charge USRs.

 

Saga of the Wolf King:

Leman Russ's Saga is the longest of any Space Wolf, filled with Tales of heroic deeds. It is even said that the Wolf King of Fenris was able to destroy a Titan, the God Machines of the Mechanicus. Leman Russ may re-roll any to hit and to wound rolls he makes in close combat and his attacks roll an additional D6 for Armour Penetration.

[The Son of Russ]

I forgot about Angrons stats, i think t6 for an ascended daemon primarch of Khorne is a bit stupid, it should atleast be t7.

I agree that the primarchs stats should be set around the same stats as Angron, but of course Angron would have sme slight advantages being a daemon and all.

 

Also i agree with blitzkrieg completely on the special rules.

I think he should be t6 and s6 though, i really want to stand by that idea due to the fact they dwarf the rest of their legion, so a slight increase to s and t is stupid. They are giants after all.

 

also on my first post i guessed that russ' armour was thrice blessed by the empror and i checked it today and noticed i got it right lol

thumbs up to me

 

Also i havnt started a thread like this before. It was simply questions about russ

[Karack Blackstone]

In the older editions, the primarchs could get a best of 6, altered human maximum. Most had 5's and WS 6 if memory serves (LD 10 and such as well) with 2+, 4++ saves. WS-6, BS-5, S-5, T-5, A-4, W-5, I-5, LD-10, Saves-2+,5++. Don't quite recall on Attacks...

 

Now, we throw Mephiston into the mix...

 

I'm not quite sure what to make of him, seeing as he's a better Demon Prince than a Demon Prince...

 

I'd give Leman Russ about 400 or 500 points, and the following:

 

WS - 6 or 7, WTN

BS - 5

S - 5 or 6

T - 6, as I think it was. He was the toughest of the Primarchs, if I recall correctly.

A - 4 or 5 base

W - 5

I - 5

LD - 10, Fearless

Saves - 2+, 5++

 

Special Rules (WTN, Fearless, Preferred Enemy [infantry] (Arguable), Acute Senses, Counter-attack)

 

This all comes with the caveat that in my Dark Heresy game I actually have to have this all figured out since some of the Primarchs are back, due to my setting's Omnissiah (Master Technichian) being found and the Emperor off the throne and actually leading again. I'd say with all I have to work with and the possible playing out of this on Tabletop to consider, there's alot that I have to work on.

[HERO]

Mjolnir is a frost blade that confers +3 strength instead of the usual +2.

 

Was this pointed out already?

 

It's +1S.

[Wispy]

Some idea for some special rules for Freki and Geri:

 

Freki the Fierce

- His attacks are resolved at S5 and have the rending special rule.

- Unyielding: Freki has an extra wound is immune to high strength weapons inflicting instant death.

 

Geri the Cunning

- His attacks are resolved at I6, and ignore armor.

 

This is based entirely on the Psychic power shooting attack. I think they should have the standard fenrisian statline for their strength and toughness. Tthey were not thunderwolves, nor were they as big as thunderwolves. If you want to show them as bigger then your standard fenrisian, give them an extra wound or two.

[Skirax]

Primarch Staple Special Rules:

Independent Character

Relentless

Eternal Warrior

Fleet

Acute Senses

Invulnerable 4+ Save

Feel No Pain

Titanic Might: May re-roll all failed To Wound rolls with Shooting and Combat weapons, including Psychic Powers

Majestic: Provided the Enemy can pass a Leadership Test, they may target the Primarch even if he is in a unit for Shooting purposes. They may always single out the Primarch in Assault.

Inspiring Presence: All units (including the Primarch) within 12" of the Primarch gain Fearless and Counter-Attack.

Heroic Strike: Primarchs always roll 2D6 for Armour Penetration and pick the highest. Instead of making his usual number of attacks, a Primarch may make a single attack that Hits and Wounds instanty or causes an automatic Penetration hit. The Heroic Strike causes Instant Death and is AP 1.

Primarch Armour: 1+ Save (remember a roll of a 1 is always a fail)

Fallen Hero: Should a Primarch die, put the model on it's side. The Primarch counts as D3 Kill Points or an extra Objective, depending on the Game Type.

 

Russ: 450 points

WS 10

BS 6

S 6

T 6

W 5

I 6

A 5

Ld 10

Sv 1+

 

Wargear:

Mjolnir (Master Crafted Frost Blade)

Wolftooth Necklace

Wolf Tail Talisman

Frag and Krak Grenades

Master Crafted Bolt Pistol

 

Special Rules:

Primarch

Epic Charge (+2 Strength and +1 Initiative on the first turn of Combat)

 

Options:

May take Freki and Geri ... 25 points per Wolf (Both have Furious Charge, Geri has Power Weapon, both count as armed with 2CCWs)

 

Freki/Geri:

WS 5/5

BS 0/0

S 5/4

T 5/5

W 2/2

I 5/5

A 4/3

Ld 10/10

Sv 6/6+

 

King Russ:

Wolf Guard may be taken as Troops

[morehardcore]

i vote for this stat line

Points cost= N/A

WS BS S T W I A LD SV

11 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 0+/2++

 

special rules:

Feel no pain (he dont care about no bullets in his brain)

eternal warrior

One man army: Leman Russ is not selected normaly, he is your entire force and is always scoring

 

Wargear:

Beer mug: gives Leman Russ the ability to regenerate all his wounds once a game

Spear of Russ: allows Leman Russ to gain an addition all attack for every enemy who he is in base to base

Mjolnir: Master-Crafter Force weapon

[Blitzkreig]

Some idea for some special rules for Freki and Geri:

 

Freki the Fierce

- His attacks are resolved at S5 and have the rending special rule.

- Unyielding: Freki has an extra wound is immune to high strength weapons inflicting instant death.

 

Geri the Cunning

- His attacks are resolved at I6, and ignore armor.

 

This is based entirely on the Psychic power shooting attack. I think they should have the standard fenrisian statline for their strength and toughness. Tthey were not thunderwolves, nor were they as big as thunderwolves. If you want to show them as bigger then your standard fenrisian, give them an extra wound or two.

 

But they aren't Fenrisian Wolves, Freki and Geri were gigantic Blackmaned Wolves who are described as huge, monstrous beasts. And come on, you think a guy like Russ would run around with the pansy wolves guys like us do? No he would run with the biggest, baddest, beasties he could find (who were also his old packmates if I remember correctly).

[Blitzkreig]

Some idea for some special rules for Freki and Geri:

 

Freki the Fierce

- His attacks are resolved at S5 and have the rending special rule.

- Unyielding: Freki has an extra wound is immune to high strength weapons inflicting instant death.

 

Geri the Cunning

- His attacks are resolved at I6, and ignore armor.

 

This is based entirely on the Psychic power shooting attack. I think they should have the standard fenrisian statline for their strength and toughness. Tthey were not thunderwolves, nor were they as big as thunderwolves. If you want to show them as bigger then your standard fenrisian, give them an extra wound or two.

 

But they aren't Fenrisian Wolves, Freki and Geri were gigantic Blackmaned Wolves who are described as huge, monstrous beasts. And come on, you think a guy like Russ would run around with the pansy wolves guys like us do? No he would run with the biggest, baddest, beasties he could find (who were also his old packmates if I remember correctly).

[Fenric]

I can't speculate really but as they are described al primarchs shoudl be incredibly powerful. Many of you give him stats and items so he would get hos ass wopped by friggin abbadon in Close combat. Sure abbadon is a powerful warrior but is no primarch.

 

I'd try;:

 

WS 8

Str 7

T 5 or 6

W 5

Ini 7

Att 6 base

LD 10

 

Then add wargear thats better than any of the normal stuff so armor with 2+ and a 3+inv, Mjolnir +2 str mastercrafter frost weapon, cloak no idea really but you get the gist.

Also add the special abilities like eternal warrior and possible feel no pain and furious charge i could see for him.

 

Points close to 350 or so.

 

But who knows really?

[Blitzkreig]

Ok, here is attempt number 2 at the Russ Man.

 

Leman Russ, The Wolf King - 385 Points

 

Unit Composition:

1 Leman Russ

 

Unit Type:

Infantry

 

Stats:

WS - 8

BS - N/A (The Wolf King doesn't need no god damned guns!)

S - 6

T - 6

W - 6

I - 6

A - 6

Ld - 10

 

Wargear:

Mjalnar

Rune Armour of Russ

Wolf tooth Necklace

Frag and Krak Grenades

 

Mjalnar:

A weapon crafted by the finest Iron Priests to ever walk amongst the Warriors of the Fang, Mjalnar is a deadly weapon in the hands of the Wolf King.

No saves of any kind may be taken against Mjalnar and it grants +1 Strength.

 

Rune Armour of Russ:

The Armour of Russ was blessed thrice by the Emperor and is a powerful bulwark against any attack. It confers a 2+ Armour Save and a 3+ Invulnerable Save.

 

Special Rules:

Fearless - Eternal Warrior - Primarch - Acute Sense - Counter-Attack - Independent Character - Saga of the Wolf King

 

Primarch:

The Primarchs are the fathers of the Space Marine Legions, while they walk the battle field their progeny will fight harder than ever in the defence of Mankind. All Space Wolves (including Fenrisian Wolves, Cyber Wolves and Thunderwolves) on the table benefit from the Fearless USR.

 

Should Russ be slain, leave the model in place. If the mission being played uses objectives he counts as an extra objective and all Space Wolves benefit from the Rending and Furious Charge USRs. If the mission being played uses Kill Points, remove the model, but all Space Wolves will benefit from the Rending and Furious Charge USRs.

 

In addition, Shooting Attacks made against the squad Russ is with must be allocated against either Russ or the unit, with all hits being resolved against them as if they were seperate units. This applies if Russ is accompanied byFreki and Geri, but they count as part of the unit of Space Marines, not Russ's. Russ takes up 2 spaces in any transport vehicle he is embarked upon.

 

Saga of the Wolf King:

Leman Russ's Saga is the longest of any Space Wolf, filled with Tales of heroic deeds. It is even said that the Wolf King of Fenris was able to destroy a Titan, the God Machines of the Mechanicus. Leman Russ may re-roll any to hit and to wound rolls he makes in close combat and his attacks roll an additional D6 for Armour Penetration.

 

Options:

Russ may be accompanied by...

Freki....................................55 Points

Geri.....................................60 Points

 

Freki:

Freki has the stats and rules which apply to Fenrisian Wolves bought as Wargear for a character with 3 amendments.

Freki is Strength 5, the Rending USR and a 3+ Armour save due to his thick Blackmaned Coat.

 

Geri:

Geri has the stats and rules which apply to Fenrisian Wolves bought as Wargear for a character with 3 amendments.

Geri ignores Armour Saves, has Initiative 6 and a 3+ Armoru Save due to his thick Blackmaned Coat.

 

In addition both Freki and Geri are immune to the effects of Instant Death and have 3 wounds each.

[Skirax]

It's ok, but Russ has a Bolt Pistol.

[The Son of Russ]

I completely agree with blitzkrieg's post 2 posts back, the stat lines are brilliant, but he is completely underpriced. He is pretty much a one man army, so id put him at 450 points.

Also he should take up 3 spaces, he is a primarch and dwarfs normal marines.

Also i agree with the armour. Completely. Has noone given me a thumbs up for guessing correctly that russ' armour twas thrice blessed by the emperor himself?I like the stats you gave him, theyare truly awesome.

 

One more thing: this isnt a post just about russ stats, i would like you guys to let other chapters to know bout this thread and for them to come and post their primarchs stats on here!

[CainTheHunter]

What about his resiliance to Warp and psychic powers?

[Niiai]

In the fluff section it says that Russ killed the wolf that guarded the gates of death (heaven knows how he did that) and then he made a cloak out of the pelt granting him unatural powers.

 

It could be a good explanation as to why he is still around after 10k years in the eye of chaos.

[Wispy]

that's fenrisian mythology and legend, not imperial history.

[Wulf Vengis]

that's fenrisian mythology and legend, not imperial history.

 

Theres a diiferance? ;)

[Wispy]

yes, obviously.