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23rd Founding...


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#1
Nash Trickster

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I'm currently working on a DiY chapter that needs to be as old as possible and yet have been founded quite a while after the Age of Apostasy (long enough after it for a Marine having fought on Terra at that time to have become a "legend" among its brethren)...
My best shot is thus the 23rd Founding. The 21st being right before the AoA, the 22nd probably too soon after, the 23rd would give me just enough room between the AoA and my chapter's founding for my needs and yet would make it as old as possible...

There is among the sticky posts (in the "Timeline" one), an estimated timeline of the various founding, which lists WD248UK as the source for the estimated dates of the 23rd and 25th Foundings...
Being french, I do not have that issue, and since the WD in different languages don't always reproduce the articles of WDUK "in order", I've found it impossible with only the UK issue number to locate the exact source that "suggested" these dates.

Thus, I need your help my fellow Liberites... Could anyone tell me the title of the article in that issue of WDUK, and perhaps give me a (short) quote of the passage in question?
(The title would simply help me find the article in french, which would be more than enough if I was sure it had been translated, but a quote would be really helpful in finding the translated sentence(s), or would simply give me the source I need in case that article was never translated in a french WD...)

Thanks in advance for any help you can bring!

Edited by Nash Trickster, 25 September 2010 - 01:41 PM.


#2
Octavulg

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The likely source is IA: Emperor's Shield, which gave specific founding dates for a number of Chapters. Original discussion thread on the subject

However, some of those dates were in conflict with other sources.

Fortunately, I'm bored, so let's go through it:

Angels of Redemption - M.31 - Second Founding. We already knew this.
Black Dragons - M.36 - We already knew this.
Angels of Vigilance - M.40
Angels Porphyr - M.31 - Second Founding. This strongly implies they're some of the unnamed Ultramarine successors.
Celebrants - M.36-M.41
Celestial Lions - M.38 (this is wrong. Note, however, that they are right next to the Celebrants, who DO have the right date for the Celestial Lions and also have an ending date - much like one would expect the Celestial Lions to). Likely a misprint.
Iron Champions - unrecorded
Marines Malevolent - M.32
Mortifactors - M.40
Silver Skulls - M.31 (Second Founding. Strongly implies they're Ultramarine successors).
Sons of Guilliman - M.33
Omega Marines - M.40
Raptors - M.31 (Second Founding)
Relictors - M.36 (Cursed Founding)
Storm Lords - M.31 (Second Founding)
Black Templars - M.31 (Second Founding)
Storm Giants - M.41 (Likely 26th Founding)
Angels of Fire - M.36 (Possibly Cursed Founding)
Exorcists - M.40

We have the Cursed Founding in early M36, the 26th in M41, and that leaves the 22nd, 23rd, 24th and 25th unaccounted for. If you space those out evenly, there's one in M37, one in M38, one in M39, one in M40. That strongly suggests the 23rd is in M38 (with the Celebrants). So it should work fine for your purposes.

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#3
Nash Trickster

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That strongly suggests the 23rd is in M38 (with the Celebrants). So it should work fine for your purposes.

Indeed... Thanks a lot for the info Octavulg.

Well, if 22nd is mid-M37, hence about a millenium after the AoA, it could fit too... I'm still hesitating between these 2... After all, a character can become "legendary" relatively quickly (a few centuries should be enough no?), while the extra centuries of existence if my chapter was from the 22nd would help a bit with my fluff, giving me more room to "space out" the events...

Well, I'll wait till I've developped their history a tad more and then decide which one of these 2 fits better.

Thanks again!

Edited by Nash Trickster, 25 September 2010 - 09:01 PM.


#4
Octavulg

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Dude, M38 would give you about 3000 years.

The history of almost every modern country fits into that.

Proud author of the Ice Lords, the Bronze Prophets, the Stone Hearts, the Steel Dogs and the The Marines Tenebric.

The Octaguide - Your very long guide to very long IAs

Help me update the Big Liber Timeline!

"Wake up. Pray. Train. Pray. Drop screaming through the atmosphere from low orbit into a raging battlefield, and take the fight to enemies that may outnumber us by as little as three to one. Do battle with the most horrific enemies of mankind imaginable and charge into lines of weapons that could shred a tank into ribbons. Afterward, lunch, time permitting." - Marshal Arturas, 15/05/08


#5
The Normish

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Dude, M38 would give you about 3000 years.

The history of almost every modern country fits into that.

And then some.

#6
Nash Trickster

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Dude, M38 would give you about 3000 years.

The history of almost every modern country fits into that.

True...

Though, it would be clearer what my problem is if I explained a little more what I'm talking about... If you look into my sig, you'll find a link to an IA I wrote some time ago for my Paladins of Dorn. As you know if you read it, or will in a second after reading this, they were founded with Dorn's Geneseed and under the tutelage of the Soul Drinkers. When I initially wrote it, I settled for the 15th Founding, but since the publication of the BL book Daenyathos, I know that the Cathechisms Martial, which is an integral part of the Soul Drinkers' character, were penned much later than I thought, some time around 400M36...

And thus it all boils down to deciding if I want my chapter to share the
Spoiler
legacy of Daenyathos or not... If I want it so, then I have to move my Chapter's Founding post-AoA, if not then I just leave it as is and simply remove any mentions of Daenyathos from my fluff...

But if I settle for including that legacy into my fluff, then I have another problem to face... This chapter has a history in two parts, first it was a crusading chapter and then, because of a prophecy (apparently) coming true, it settled. And I need 2 things:
  • the amount of time the chapter was crusading has to be greater than the one since it settled,
  • and the settling must have happened quite a long time ago. (Enough for the latent schism, between those who believe settling was part of the prophecy and those who think that the sign they found on the planet was just "the first step" in the prophecy and thus that they should have continued crusading, to have degenerated far enough...)
Thus, if I can win a few centuries of existence for the chapter, it'd be better (because it'd allow me a little bit more leeway as far as these two periods are concerned...)

Moreover, since the fluff for all my creations tends to crossover at one point or another, and since I'd like this chapter to have participated in events that took place around 400M37 in another of my creations, being able to date their creation before that event would be a plus. Because I'd have to change the dates of other events in several of my fluff pieces if I can't... If I move the Paladins creation to M38 (or even late M37), then the Sororitas Minor Order I created would have to have been founded later for the Paladins to have played their part in the events. And, if I move the creation of the Order, then the events which marked one of my other chapters, the Venators, would likely have to be too. And these chaznges would snowball to force me into rechecking every single piece I wrote since I decided to link my fluff to check for potential timeline conflict and correct it...

When I said I'd have to wait till I developped their history a tad more, in fact I meant I'd have to decide whether or not I wanted them to share Daenyathos' Legacy and how moving them to a post-AoA Founding would impact my other fluff. But, before taking that decision, I really needed to have a better picture of the timing involved by a shifting of the Founding to the 22nd or 23rd...

Thanks again for your help in "enlightening" me :)

Edited by Nash Trickster, 26 September 2010 - 10:02 AM.


#7
Vodunius

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Off topic, but:

Iron Champions - unrecorded
Silver Skulls - M.31 (Second Founding. Strongly implies they're Ultramarine successors).


Codex: Ultramarines stated that the Silver Skulls are an Ultramarine successor, but that their actual Founding was unknown. I wonder if the guy got his metals mixed up along with his Cele's..
i hate to break it to you chaps, but according to the English Language a Chevron is a V shape, if your 'Chevrons' are not V shaped then they are just hazard stripes NOT Chevrons

Horus killed Sanguinius so hard that his entire chapter feels it forever..