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Firedrake

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26 replies to this topic

#1
Vash113

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For anyone interested in reading Firedrake, I purchased it a few days ago and finished it yesterday and I figured I might as well put up some quick words about it for those who may find them useful.

The book does combat scenes pretty well, the plot moves along swiftly enough and splits between several different areas of focus. The downsides come in a fairly abrupt and IMO lackluster sequel tie-in ending that lacks much suspense and is too predictable for me, there were a number of galling grammatical faults spread throughout the book and the plot hung up at a few points where I felt like I had to slog through them.

On the other hand the book depicts the Salamanders excellently and delivers a great deal of insight into the Chapter and the nature of Nocturne, even more so than the previous book did. Firedrake really hammers home the nature of the Salamanders, their motivations and characters and this is easily the best aspect of the book I think.

Despite its faults I'd still say it is a must read for Salamanders players or fans and is a decent 40k book all around. Its faults don't detract hugely from the reading experience and the background material is well worth the effort.

In short I'd give Firedrake a reasonable 7/10, maybe an 8/10 I haven't entirely made up my mind about it yet.

Edited by Vash113, 19 October 2010 - 02:16 AM.

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#2
Eryx_UK

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I didn't know it was out yet. Will have to have a search for it.

#3
Iron Father Ferrum

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It is better than Salamander was? And by "better," I mean does it still have the very non-Astartes back-stabbing, murdering, and arrogant-:P-ishness of Salamander?
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#4
Gree

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Question, do the Dark Eldar manage to kill any Astartes at all? Even just one? If it's a spoiler then you can just PM it to me.

#5
Vash113

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I didn't know it was out yet. Will have to have a search for it.


My local stores get each month's releases about two weeks early.

It is better than Salamander was? And by "better," I mean does it still have the very non-Astartes back-stabbing, murdering, and arrogant-:cuss-ishness of Salamander?


Well there isn't as much of it, very little actually and the Salamanders do act more like Marines in this one.

Question, do the Dark Eldar manage to kill any Astartes at all? Even just one? If it's a spoiler then you can just PM it to me.


Yes actually, a good few Astartes die to the Dark Eldar, though many of the combat scenes still come off as fairly one sided, especially early on in the book.

"Are we going to scrap about it now. Argue which Legion is the toughest?"
"The answer always is, the Wolves of Fenris," Torgadon put in. "Because they're clinically insane."
-1st Captain Sigismund of the Imperial Fists and Captain of the Luna Wolves 2nd Company.

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#6
Hyperion

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I enjoyed Firedrake a lot more than Salamander. The character of the Salamanders is much better and the descriptions of the Dark Eldar and their 'world' is great.

I really like the treasure hunt that Vulkan has left for his sons! Talk about obscure.
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#7
Reyner

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Where did you get it from?

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#8
Vulcan He'Stan

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It is better than Salamander was? And by "better," I mean does it still have the very non-Astartes back-stabbing, murdering, and arrogant-:)-ishness of Salamander?


Dont get me wrong, i completely understand the above quote. But, when you think about it logically the fact that all other Space Marine books dont have backstabbing etc in is the issue.

You have 1000 super humans (if human at all) who are trained to best every opponent they fight against...

Imagine you amongs even 100 guys who all try to be better than those around them. No wonder there is conflict. I can barely get with 10 of the 100 guys i work with, and i would most definitely not douse at least four of them if they were on fire.

I havent read firedrake yet, though to be honest i hate Ts'ugan as much as is possible. However this is part of the charm and Nick Kyme should be congratulated for producing books where the only reason i buy them is because i hate reading about the main character...that is truly an accomplishment.

Edited by Vulcan He'Stan, 21 October 2010 - 05:01 PM.


#9
Eryx_UK

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Picked up my copy today, despite the 15 minute wait because they couldn't tell whether it was on one of three "do not sell before release date" lists. Looking forward to reading this over the weekend.

#10
Gree

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It is better than Salamander was? And by "better," I mean does it still have the very non-Astartes back-stabbing, murdering, and arrogant-<_<-ishness of Salamander?


Dont get me wrong, i completely understand the above quote. But, when you think about it logically the fact that all other Space Marine books dont have backstabbing etc in is the issue.

You have 1000 super humans (if human at all) who are trained to best every opponent they fight against...

Imagine you amongs even 100 guys who all try to be better than those around them. No wonder there is conflict. I can barely get with 10 of the 100 guys i work with, and i would most definitely not douse at least four of them if they were on fire.


Except Astartes are susposed to undergo hypono-therapy and conditioning for that sort of thing. Rivalry is one thing, but Iagon's outright murder of fellow Astartes should not be.

Chaos Marines are a different thing.

#11
Iron Father Ferrum

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It is better than Salamander was? And by "better," I mean does it still have the very non-Astartes back-stabbing, murdering, and arrogant-:D-ishness of Salamander?


Dont get me wrong, i completely understand the above quote. But, when you think about it logically the fact that all other Space Marine books dont have backstabbing etc in is the issue.

You have 1000 super humans (if human at all) who are trained to best every opponent they fight against...

Imagine you amongs even 100 guys who all try to be better than those around them. No wonder there is conflict. I can barely get with 10 of the 100 guys i work with, and i would most definitely not douse at least four of them if they were on fire.


Except Astartes are susposed to undergo hypono-therapy and conditioning for that sort of thing. Rivalry is one thing, but Iagon's outright murder of fellow Astartes should not be.

Chaos Marines are a different thing.



I'm in the Army, so I'm well aware of the fact that being surrounded by other men with alpha personalities is going to lead to conflict. That's where discipline and the chain of command come into play -- and if none of us (the equivalent of Guardsmen) are plotting to kill each other, then I doubt Astartes (who are supposedly brainwashed to see other members of the chapters as long-lost blood-brothers) are going to do so, either. I'd expect to see a character with Iagon's personality in, say, an Inquisitor's retinue or a Guard unit, but not a Space Marine.
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#12
Vulcan He'Stan

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True. True.

Again, i completely agree that Iagon blatantly killing N'keln and the other things he did is very un-astartes like.

But, could you stomach another novel where it was just brother and brother vs the world?

The issues brought up in the novel prompted thought, one which has not been touched in other novels before. So therefore, despite the fact i hate it, i love it.

#13
Iron Father Ferrum

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Tsu'gan's intense dislike of Da'kir adds enough of a new dynamic to the standard we're-all-old-friends of most Space Marine novels. There was no need for Iagon's douchebaggery, and I felt it broke the story.
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#14
Biorebel

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I kind of enjoyed Iagon's character, even if it was a blatant reference to the Shakespeare character of similar name.

#15
Cornelias

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Space Marines aren't infallible or we wouldn't have had a Hersey and many other renegade marines/chapters ;)

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#16
Obliterator

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Except Astartes are susposed to undergo hypono-therapy and conditioning for that sort of thing. Rivalry is one thing, but Iagon's outright murder of fellow Astartes should not be.

Chaos Marines are a different thing.

Chaos Marines were all loyalists once. During the Heresy, chapters were divided because some chose to follow the Warmaster, and some stuck it out with the Emperor (Flight of the Eisenstein comes to mind). Iagon felt betrayed by his kin, Tsu'gan's ascendance into 1st Company made him feel isolated, and he wanted revenge. The Dragon Warriors were Salamanders once, so it's almost logical that Iagon seeks to join that warband. I kinda liked that 'even angels can fall' moment, although I must admit it shocked me a bit, as I thought he was saying farewell because he was going for a last stand kinda thing.

I'm not sure marines undergo hypno-therapy for that sort of behaviour. In Ian Watson's Space Marine you see that the 3 different characters are motivated to work together, and punished if they don't, but I don't remember them being hypnotised so they all play nice. Then again, it has been a while and I'm getting old, so don't quote me on that :)
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#17
Gree

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Except Astartes are susposed to undergo hypono-therapy and conditioning for that sort of thing. Rivalry is one thing, but Iagon's outright murder of fellow Astartes should not be.

Chaos Marines are a different thing.

Chaos Marines were all loyalists once. During the Heresy, chapters were divided because some chose to follow the Warmaster, and some stuck it out with the Emperor (Flight of the Eisenstein comes to mind). Iagon felt betrayed by his kin, Tsu'gan's ascendance into 1st Company made him feel isolated, and he wanted revenge. The Dragon Warriors were Salamanders once, so it's almost logical that Iagon seeks to join that warband. I kinda liked that 'even angels can fall' moment, although I must admit it shocked me a bit, as I thought he was saying farewell because he was going for a last stand kinda thing.

I'm not sure marines undergo hypno-therapy for that sort of behaviour. In Ian Watson's Space Marine you see that the 3 different characters are motivated to work together, and punished if they don't, but I don't remember them being hypnotised so they all play nice. Then again, it has been a while and I'm getting old, so don't quote me on that :D


The hypno-theraphy and conditioning was not the same back then. Back then nobody thought Astartes would turn on each other.

Anyway I now got the book itself.

I liked it so far. It starts off with the Salamanders planning an assault on a Dark eldar-held city and they are repeatedly remarking on how odd it is that Dark Eldar are holding fortifed postions.

And then I quickly flip over to my copy of Brothers of the Snake and read about Dark Eldar holding a city against the Guard and the Iron Snakes don't make a peep on how weird it is.

:P

Already this book is looking better than Brothers of the Snake. The treatment of the Dark Eldar so far is not nearly as atrocious as Abnett's portrayal of them in BoTS. I so far like how Kyme is going with this.

Edited by Gree, 30 October 2010 - 03:49 PM.


#18
Fire Drake Ta'kanass

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I have gotten just under half way though and I an enjoying it a lot. I didn't read Salamander first as they didn't have it in the Southampton shop (They just sold out) so I am missing a bit of the story.

I am liking Da'Kir it's good to see how much good natured and caring if that's the word that the Salamanders are being portrayed to be. I also am liking Tsu'Gan his character is raw and atm I am liking him. Iagon is a douche though

#19
Hyaenidae

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Just out of curiousity, is there any mention of the Marines Malevolent in this one? I kinda doubted it, but I thought I'd ask.

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#20
Gree

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Yes, from what I can understand some of them actually join forces with the Dragon Warriors and some xenos to attack the Salamanders.

#21
Hyaenidae

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Ahahahahaha!! ;) That is awesome! I'm gonna go get that book tomorrow.

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#22
Marshal Traben

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Yes, from what I can understand some of them actually join forces with the Dragon Warriors and some xenos to attack the Salamanders.


Spoiler

Edited by Brother Khairon, 31 October 2010 - 01:16 AM.

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#23
Kurgan the Lurker

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I liked this far better than Salamander. I even found myself liking the character of Tsu'gan (who I hated from reading Salamander).

I did cringe at the lines lifted straight out of the Xmen movie in regards to the Black Dragon Marine though. Was fairly disappointed to see that in the book.

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#24
Vash113

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I did cringe at the lines lifted straight out of the Xmen movie in regards to the Black Dragon Marine though. Was fairly disappointed to see that in the book.


What the "does that hurt every time" bit? Yea that was rather blatant and appalling.

Not as bad as the Blackhawk Down rip-offs in Redemption Corps though.

"Are we going to scrap about it now. Argue which Legion is the toughest?"
"The answer always is, the Wolves of Fenris," Torgadon put in. "Because they're clinically insane."
-1st Captain Sigismund of the Imperial Fists and Captain of the Luna Wolves 2nd Company.

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#25
Reyner

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My girlfriend bought me it last week (I think) and I read it in a day and a half. Loved it.

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