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Furioso Librarian


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33 replies to this topic

#1
Kanis

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Once again I must ask the wisdom of my brothers.

I've been using a Furioso now for a good while, and love the war-machine, it's done me wonders; however, I've been itching to try the Librarian Furioso Dreadnought since I started, especially if a new model will be out in months time; but, there are a few questions I'd like to address first.

First of all, with the FAQ ruling of no extra war gear for him, a Librarian Dreadnought can become useless if stunned/shaken constantly. This is the biggest offset for me on this unit, is the lack of extra armor. A few comrades argue it's not that big a deal, but I disagree. The smallest damage result in this case is the biggest, even small shots can leave him standing dumbfounded, and that's a considerable amount of points to have do nothing for a turn, or even more if not destroyed. Thoughts on this, brethren? Any experiences?

Secondly, the limitation of one power per turn with this heavy hitter. For me the Wings of Sanguinius are a very tempting first choice, as a 12 inch moving walker is hilariously frightening. Then I was thinking perhaps Shield, as it would give himself, and possibly other units about him that 5+ cover that could prevent some damages. Of course, I was thinking in the end, maybe only one a turn is just fine. While a force weapon is nice, why do I need that when he has a S10 bloodfist to use against important things? Most powerful characters I'd like to Instant Death have rules against it, or some sort of protection anyway, right?

Is there a reason to use one of these over a standard Furioso? I finding it a no as the Librarian lacks the anti-tank abilites its normal form does. i.e. melta-gun and/or magna-grapple. Not to mention the power of the Blood Talons I've witnessed is truly terrifying, even against my normally unstoppable foes, like Death Guard around here fear the big red machine.

These are just some thoughts on this mighty, unique unit to us. If any of you have insight or opinions on this, I'd love to hear them. Thanks for your time. For the Emperor, Brothers.
"From shame and shadow recast. In black and gold reborn."

#2
Black Blow Fly

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There is unfortunately no getting around the lack of extra armor. :) About casting psychic powers, you can cast one per phase of a player turn - so you can cast wings in the movement phase and then use the force weapon in the assault phase. The force weapon is good for insta gibbing monstrous creatures and characters like Abbadon assuming the dad survives long enough to swing back.

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#3
Erasmus of Baal

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About casting psychic powers, you can cast one per phase of a player turn - so you can cast wings in the movement phase and then use the force weapon in the assault phase.

Could you cite this? I've always heard it as once per player turn--I don't have my rulebook with me, so I can't check, but this would be game-altering.

Assuming Black Orange is right, well, yeah. The guy is a monster. Assuming Black Orange is wrong, though, the Wings guy is more of an assault booster--getting to where he's needed, working for psychological effect, etc.; the only option that I would likely take is Might of Heroes. +d3 Power Weapon attacks? Yes, please!

#4
daboarder

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Sorry BO, but its once per turn and unless specified otherwise turn ALWAYS means player turn.
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#5
thundrchickn

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1 psychic power per player turn pg 50 brb

force weapon adds an additional psychic power (aka using the force wepon ability) pg 50 brb

so if you can only do 1 power per turn it's either a special power or the force weapon ability


After the FAQ, I feel that furioso Librarians became worthless. He's wounding on 2+ on just about everything in the game so you're gonna be putting a lot of wounds on large nids and bigger demons ( which can't be instagibbed anyways) so you're only reallly trying to insta kill big nids. a 4+ on the damage chart will effectively take this behemoth out of the game and a a bolter can glance and roll a 6 on rear armor taking him out. With the amount of melta in the meta game, he's gonna get taken out right away. I'd take it out right away just to gimp my opponent out of 200 points and get a free kill point.

There's only 2 ways to effectively run furiosos. Keep them really cheap. Extra armor and blood talons only

1. Drop pod near but not on your opponents objective, pop smoke immediately, hope to survive to the next turn. Hopefully in the turn it drop podded or the next (if he lives) some transports will be opened and you can charge in and get a bunch of kills.

2. Hide him in your deployment zone near an objective you intend to hold and have him guard it(preferably from cover)


everything else is incredably points inefficient. They can get taken out of the game to easily with a 4+ on the chart and they really don't kill that much. blood talons are a 2 edged sword because you may kill a unit in 1 go and then your standing in the open to get shot to pieces. I've tried running them as a mobile wall for razorspam as AV13 is awesome and we can field a ton of it but they consistently block your own LOS, they don't make up their points well/often and theres a lot of other things in the book that are just better.

#6
Black Blow Fly

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I'll check the rulebook as a follow up. If it says player turn then I'm wrong. I do know lots of players who says it's per phase as opposed to turn. :(

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#7
shatter

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Better in a stormraven I reckon. Shield and wings (and hood) are probably of a better choice of options.
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#8
Mezkh

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Wings and Might of Heroes I think. He's a good unit, WS6 and AV13 is powerful in combat, 4 attacks on the charge, with 4-6 every phase after that due to MoH, and he gets stuck in fast with wings. Bonus psychic defense too.

Would never take shield, pointless when you already have smoke and move fast enough to be in combat/good cover.

#9
Judaz

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It's one power per player turn, so wings in your turn and then shield in the opponents turn. And don't forget to use the hood when your opponent tries to use any psychic powers.

Fly it behind a screen of razors or rhinos and then fly over the razor to assault. But I agree that the removal of extra armour nerfed the furioso librarian almost into oblivion...

Have GW ever made a counter FAQ when something doesn't work? Or are they too proud for that?

Marshal2Crusaders, on 06 May 2013 - 05:55, said:


Soo...

 

 

Did someone just tell a Black Library author that the author doesn't fundamentally understand a portion of the background the author himself contributed to expanding on, where previously no information (read this as: didn't even exist in anyone's head) was available?


#10
Aeterni

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I use my 3x Libby Dreadies in the same matter each time. I take Blood Lance and cover. Drop pod 2 of them in, then blood lance their tanks or stuff that can be insta gibbed with his lance attack. In my opponents turn, I use the hood as for a 5+ cover and hope he makes it to turn 2. Rinse and repeat until the Libby Dread or the enemy is dead. Granted as well, this goes with my drop pod army which has 3 more dreadies that drop pod and 1 DC dread that does as well. With my RAS taking drop pods, I can if I wanted to, drop 5 dreadies in turn 1. There are a total of 10 drop pods in my 1750 list :)

Edited by Aeterni, 28 November 2010 - 10:45 AM.


#11
bulley

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Its one power per player turn (once per turn ...), only Epi's can cast 2 per turn.

A libby w/ shield can cast one in the enemies shooting.

Force weapon is a psy power, thus if you cast wings/lance you cant use it.

#12
shatter

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I use my 3x Libby Dreadies in the same matter each time. I take Blood Lance and cover. Drop pod 2 of them in, then blood lance their tanks or stuff that can be insta gibbed with his lance attack. In my opponents turn, I use the hood as for a 5+ cover and hope he makes it to turn 2. Rinse and repeat until the Libby Dread or the enemy is dead. Granted as well, this goes with my drop pod army which has 3 more dreadies that drop pod and 1 DC dread that does as well. With my RAS taking drop pods, I can if I wanted to, drop 5 dreadies in turn 1. There are a total of 10 drop pods in my 1750 list :)


Another usage is 3 DNlibbies in dps with 2 HQlibbies in a dp(/s), spamming Fear'/'Lance. I proxied it several months ago and it was fun. Requires far more dps than I have, so I never went further with tuning it.
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#13
Kanis

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Some good points have been raised. I still think Wings isn't that bad, but the extra attacks from Might is too tempting/useful over it, so that's what I'll test out first when I play next.

The fact it can't take extra armor is really a bite for me, but I'll see what happens when I use it. This aside, it's no less survivable than a normal Furioso, and the damage results 3-6 are no more lethal to it than the normal either. It can also take a weapon destroyed and still have a powerful weapon, unlike when Blood Talons lose one and the whole thing is pretty much ruined.
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#14
igotsmeakabob!!

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Wings+Might, it's the only way to ride. That AV13 is pretty damn rockin'.
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#15
SamaNagol

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LMAO@one power per phase! Classic!
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#16
Taranis

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I would go for fear, shield and droppod. When landing go for infantry and hope shield saves you.
You can also field corbulo to reroll a failed roll. The more dreads you field the longer they last if deployed together as well.
Turn 2 go for cc or fear another infantry unit.


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#17
Mezkh

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My thinking with Fear+Shield is you're better off taking an actual jumppack Libby and 5 buddies to escort him. They can jump around and what-have you and use the good 24" range of fear.

They're weak in combat but fairly resilient to shooting, and provide support with cover and psy-defense bubbles whereever needed in the field.

A libby dread is totally opposite, it's weak to shooting, but very strong combat stats and much more resilient to return attacks in melee as opposed to guns. Take Wings to get it there, and Might as the power use you in your opponent's turn (hopefully winning combat in the second round!)

I'll admit I haven't used Lance but it does look quite bad. It doesn't ignore cover and the range is not much more than a melta if that. Normal Furiosos seem to have better 'shooting' options - Lance should have been made str 9 or 10 to be 'good but not OP'.

#18
BOBMAKENZIE

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I hate to sound stupid but doesnt wings make him more maneuverable since when casts it he moves as Jump Infantry and since jump infantry cant be stunned, shaken or immobilized.....

(Ponder on that one I know I have been)

Edited by BOBMAKENZIE, 29 November 2010 - 04:02 PM.

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#19
Angelus Mortifer

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I hate to sound stupid but doesnt wings make him more maneuverable since when casts it he moves as Jump Infantry and since jump infantry cant be stunned, shaken or immobilized.....

(Ponder on that one I know I have been)


Wings makes the Libby/Dread move "as if he had a Jump Pack"; doesn't change his unit type to Jump Infantry, so sadly no that wouldn't apply.

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#20
BOBMAKENZIE

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I hate to sound stupid but doesnt wings make him more maneuverable since when casts it he moves as Jump Infantry and since jump infantry cant be stunned, shaken or immobilized.....

(Ponder on that one I know I have been)


Wings makes the Libby/Dread move "as if he had a Jump Pack"; doesn't change his unit type to Jump Infantry, so sadly no that wouldn't apply.


and "A model equipped with a jump pack is jump infantry"
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#21
Judaz

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But since he's not equipped with a jump pack, only moves AS IF he had a jump pack...

Marshal2Crusaders, on 06 May 2013 - 05:55, said:


Soo...

 

 

Did someone just tell a Black Library author that the author doesn't fundamentally understand a portion of the background the author himself contributed to expanding on, where previously no information (read this as: didn't even exist in anyone's head) was available?


#22
BOBMAKENZIE

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But since he's not equipped with a jump pack, only moves AS IF he had a jump pack...


:P But...thats my whole point. He moves as if he has a jump pack. Models with a jump pack move like jump infantry (because they are jump infantry) if it moves like Jump infantry its not moving like a vehicle is it? From a fluff perspective how hard is it to believe that something that can grow big psychic wings might be able to lift up off the ground even when the leg servos are broke?
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#23
jbarket

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I really like them conceptually, but they're pretty meh. It's a lot of points on the possibility of Lance wrecking a bunch of their stuff, especially when you consider the possibilities of a regular Furioso with BT.

#24
Gaz1858

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My personal view on this is that it is a slight grey area. I however would always treat it as a vehicle so if its immobilised then it cant wing itself anywhere.

Fluff wise try landing after flying when your legs are mangled!
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#25
Wildcard101

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Furioso Librairan Dread on Drop Pod or Stormraven w/ +d3 Attacks & Shield works wonders.
Pop smoke or shoot when it arrives.

Edited by Wildcard101, 30 November 2010 - 01:12 AM.