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How can you beat this ork list?!


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#1
amberclad87

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So we have a player at our LGS that dominates all who opposes with his orks. He runs the same thing all the time, and we all know what it's going to do, and it kicks ass all the time. He wins our monthly tournaments whenever he plays and is almost undefeated with them. He's a good guy but has got us all scratching our heads going "how do we beat this guy." here's his list roughly for 2000 points.

Ghazkull
5 mega nobz (ride in truck)
3-4 30 strong mobz with power klaws
Full squad of stormboyz
9 killa kanz
squad of lootas

TACTICS: Kanz screen the boyz and on turns 1-2 just run forward, and Ghaz and stormboyz race ahead to eat whatever. He describes it as the 3 prong attack, Storm boys race ahead and kill stuff till they die in turn, them come the boyz (usually with Ghaz and mega nobz) followed by the kanz to mop up whatever is left.

This list is crazy! It almost tables his opponent every time and we all know what it does and how he's going to do it, but we just can't beat this guy. Any advice on taking this beast down a notch?
Only the truly insane can prosper. Only the prosperous can judge what is sane.

#2
Meatman

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Typhoons, tacticals in rhinos with flamers, combi-flamers and missile launchers, librarian with nullzone and avenger, and a dedicated counter assault unit.

Typhoons can kill the kans easily, especially if they are in squadrons, or the truck first. Then frag up the smaller stuff. Same with tactical squads, but dual flamer mobs if they get too close. Dedicated assault unit (Terminators could work well, or a couple ven or ironclad dreads), plus nullzone to destroy the nobs and Ghazkill.


Something like this:

Librarian epistolary, nullzone, avenger - 100

Tact squad, combi-flamer, flamer, missile launcher, rhino - 215
Tact squad, combi-flamer, flamer, missile launcher, rhino - 215
Tact squad, combi-flamer, flamer, missile launcher, rhino - 215

3 typhoons - 270
3 typhoons - 270
3 typhoons - 270

Terminator assault squad, 10 man, 5 sets of claws, 5 hammers and shields - 400

1995.

That's what I'd do anyway :RTBBB:
QUOTE (Something Wycked @ Sep 22 2011, 02:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My ultimate point is this: play your opponent, play the board and the terrain, but don't game the system with cheap tricks


I love the Chapter Name Creator :D
Repentant Hippos
Stealth Turtles

My DIY chapter is so going to be one of these two :P

#3
Gunslinger87

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That, or maybe 3 land raiders (one or two of which are redeemers) and 3 solid cc units (termies). With hoarde armies, you might want to get calgar or other chapter master to fire that orbital bombardment first turn. Generally, he is going to have trouble popping the raiders, especially if they retreat back 6-12 inches. You might want to spread your forces with long range on one side, cc specialists on the other.

PS with very large mobz, it is also much easier for you to multiple-cc with your termies and HQ, while he will have trouble getting in more than one (you get surrounded) so when you can, jump out with all your forces and take down the closest large mob, then jump back in the transport.

Edited by Gunslinger87, 02 December 2010 - 06:55 PM.


#4
Captain Idaho

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Honour Guard mince Orks for breakfast, lunch and dinner! Take a unit and wipe entire units off the board in 1 turn's charge. Not kidding, my 5 Honour Guard with Master and Relic Blade killed plenty of Orks, including 26 Orks in a single turn (well only actually 16 but they then ran down the rest of them).

Combine that with Typhoons and at least 30 Tacticals and whatever your poison is. Jobs a good 'un!

#5
Marshal Wilhelm

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Blow up Ghaz's trukk T1. It is open topped AV 10. Ignore Ghaz + Mega Nobz, unless you have spare las cannons after shooting at Kanz, but you probably wont.

Fire Preds and the like at Kanz. Squadrons are excellent to shoot as they are hard to overkill, making your shot go further.

Use Pods and Rhinos to stall him. Use his bulk against him. Double team one mob at a time. Say the mob is 200 pts, then hit it with 400 pts.

Heavy flamers brought by Dreads and Speeders are excellent at killing the beasts. Dreads > Kanz

Vindicators and even Whirlwinds will be on easy money with so many boyz to kill. Drop the Vindi shot on Ghaz + Mega Nobz, especially if they are close to other mobz.

His list certainly has a strength to it by being maxed out as Foot, but it isn't the amazing either. You just need to stop playing to his strengths, if you get what I am saying?

He could just be a better player than you all, as he "shouldn't" be winning against you so often with just listhammer, imo :)

#6
Bartali

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Presuming we're talking C:SM

1. Bring a balanced all-comers mech list
2. Shoot stuff

Very rough 2000pt list (not used to building to this point level !)

Libby w/TDA, Gate Of Infinity, Null Zone

Dread w/Autocannonx2
Dread w/Autocannonx2
5x Terminator Assault Squad w/ TH/SS

Tactical Squad w/Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Rhino
Tactical Squad w/Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Rhino
Tactical Squad w/Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Rhino
Tactical Squad w/Meltagun, Missile Launcher, Rhino

Land Speederx2 w/ Multi-Melta/Heavy Flamer
Land Speederx2 w/ Multi-Melta/Heavy Flamer
Land Speeder w/ Multi-Melta/Heavy Flamer

Predator w/Autocannon, Heavy Bolters
Predator w/Autocannon, Heavy Bolters
Predator w/Autocannon, Heavy Bolters

#7
dswanick

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This would be my first attempt.

Troops: Wolf Guard Pack (9#, 926 pts)
1 Logan Grimnar, The Great Wolf @ 275 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Belt of Russ; Terminator Armour; Wolf Tail Talisman; Wolftooth Necklace; Storm Bolter; The Axe Morkai; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack; Eternal Warrior; Independent Character; Living Legend; Stubborn; The High King; Saga of Majesty)
1 Wolf Guard Pack @ 651 pts (Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour; Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour; Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour; Land Raider Redeemer)
1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Frost Weapon x1; Storm Shield x1; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack)
1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Frost Weapon x1; Storm Shield x1; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack)
1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Frost Weapon x1; Storm Shield x1; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack)
1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Frost Weapon x1; Storm Shield x1; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Unit Type: Infantry; Terminator Armour; Combi-Meltagun; Frost Weapon; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Unit Type: Infantry; Terminator Armour; Combi-Flamer; Frost Weapon; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Unit Type: Infantry; Terminator Armour; Combi-Flamer; Frost Weapon; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack)
1 Land Raider Redeemer (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Transport Capacity: 12 models; Access Points: 3; Frag Assault Launchers; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Extra Armor; 2x Flamestorm Cannons; Twin Linked Assault Cannon; Assault Vehicle; Power of the Machine Spirit)

Troops: Wolf Guard Pack (7#, 728 pts)
1 Njal Stormcaller, Lord of Tempests @ 270 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Nightwing; Wolftooth Necklace; Runic Terminator Armour; Bolt Pistol; Staff of the Stormcaller; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack; Independent Character; Lord of Tempests; Master Psyker; Fury of the Wolf Spirits; Jaws of the World Wolf; Living Lightning; Murderous Hurricane; Storm Caller; Tempest's Wrath; Thunderclap; Saga of Majesty)
1 Wolf Guard Pack @ 458 pts (Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Power Armour; Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour; Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour; Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour; Arjac Rockfist, The Anvil of Fenris)
1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Frost Weapon x1; Storm Shield x1; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack)
1 Wolf Guard in Power Armour (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Frost Weapon x1; Storm Shield x1; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Unit Type: Infantry; Terminator Armour; Combi-Meltagun; Frost Weapon; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Unit Type: Infantry; Terminator Armour; Combi-Flamer; Frost Weapon; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack)
1 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour (Unit Type: Infantry; Terminator Armour; Combi-Flamer; Frost Weapon; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack)
1 Arjac Rockfist, The Anvil of Fenris (Unit Type: Infantry; Terminator Armour; Wolftooth Necklace; Anvil Shield; Foehammer; Acute Senses; And They Shall Know No Fear; Counter-attack; Eternal Warrior; Grimnar's Champion; Stubborn; Saga of the Bear)

Heavy Support: Land Raider Redeemer (1#, 255 pts)
1 Land Raider Redeemer @ 255 pts (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Transport Capacity: 12 models; Access Points: 3; Frag Assault Launchers; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Extra Armor; 2x Flamestorm Cannons; Twin Linked Assault Cannon; Assault Vehicle; Power of the Machine Spirit)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 90 pts)
1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 90 pts (Unit Type: Vehicle (Skimmer, Fast); Heavy Flamer x1; Typhoon Missile Launcher; Deep Strike)

Total Roster Cost: 1999
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QUOTE (Loki-LaughingDeath @ Feb 11 2011, 01:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I love Tau in CC, it's like clubbing baby seals, only tau are neither cute nor fluffy or protected by the Maritime Mammal Act..... so it's perfectly legal and the Sierra Club ASPCA nuts won't come looking for you!

QUOTE (-Max- @ Aug 1 2011, 12:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
For the regular Guardsman you've got Commissars holding guns to their backs. They're faithful in their own way, sometimes mightily so, but they are regular folks who've led regular lives, with the completely understandable desire to continue living that causes them to duck when they get shot at. Sisters are orphans raised in perpetual Sunday school, fanatical to the point that they look at Repentia and feel a twinge of jealousy that those girls will see the Emperor sooner than they will.

#8
Hellios

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So we have a player at our LGS that dominates all who opposes with his orks. He runs the same thing all the time, and we all know what it's going to do, and it kicks ass all the time. He wins our monthly tournaments whenever he plays and is almost undefeated with them. He's a good guy but has got us all scratching our heads going "how do we beat this guy." here's his list roughly for 2000 points.

Ghazkull
5 mega nobz (ride in truck)
3-4 30 strong mobz with power klaws
Full squad of stormboyz
9 killa kanz
squad of lootas

TACTICS: Kanz screen the boyz and on turns 1-2 just run forward, and Ghaz and stormboyz race ahead to eat whatever. He describes it as the 3 prong attack, Storm boys race ahead and kill stuff till they die in turn, them come the boyz (usually with Ghaz and mega nobz) followed by the kanz to mop up whatever is left.

This list is crazy! It almost tables his opponent every time and we all know what it does and how he's going to do it, but we just can't beat this guy. Any advice on taking this beast down a notch?



drop a Ironclad into the lootas... because suicide dreads are funny... (deathwind maybe worth while) oh and AV13 will really annoy the lootas... they might get you... they might not... then you eat the lootas if they don't... or he turns another unit to deal with the dread... which weakens his three-pronged attack...

Ok ok if you really don't want to use a suicide dread take a whirlwind to indirect fire at the lootas (so you can hide from their shooting)... whilrwinds should also help soften the boyz mobs...

With lootas out of the way twin-AC dreads... and LS typhoons are all good to go... to blow up the trukk and killa cans... tacticals in rhinos... flamer and missile launcher (missile launcher at kans if you need to... flamer everything else... except mega nobs...)


I'm sure you can find something to kill 5 meganobs and Gazzer!

Yer I didn't give you a list, I prefer to give ideas! Those are not the only way it can be done, but if this guy is beating everyone I guess you don't have a big mean guard vet in your area...

#9
Mysticaria

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So its a classic "Kan Wall" with Ghazkull thrown in. Kans up front to give cover saves to the 100+ boys is pretty good. Shame he doesn't roll with a big mek... 85 points to give all the kans a 4+ save... oh, sorry I forgot I was supposed to be giving Marines the ideas....

Weakness is Landraiders. Nothing besides a powerclaw is going to touch a landraider and even those are going to have a tough time.
Avoid Gazkhull and company, distract them possibly. Knock out the truck early and they will take a long time to get anywhere.
Typhoons seem really good in this matchup, just need to deal with the lootas somehow. I kinda like the Drop Ironclad idea. He'll need 5+ to hit, 6+ to glance...

You could always get lucky and pull "dawn of war" scenario against him. That would help.

-Myst


Tournament Results 2010-2011: W-L-D format
Ultramarines: 5-3-3 *2x Best Paint Winner*
Orks: 2-0-1 *1x First Place*

#10
Wildfire

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First off, you shoot the Trukk. Those nobs are slow once they're on foot. That's your #1 priority. Second, you put out a sacrifice unit to get more than one unit of boyz to charge. Once they're all bunched up within charge range, charge in with everything you have in one big melee. Without the charge, boyz are going to crumble to a large assault of marines, even tacs. Then watch as every squad takes tons of No Retreat wounds and starts dropping like flies. Bikers and the like are excellent for this, as without the charge boyz wound only on a 6. They also have the mobility to strike where you want. They do lower your model count, though, so be careful with how many you take.

Granted, this is not as easy as I make it sound. The key here is to get two or more squads of boyz in position to be charged by multiple squads. This generally requires a sacrifice unit valuable enough for it to be worth the risk for him, and proper positioning of your forces. It also requires Ghaz and his buddies to be outside of charge range.

Hope that helps.
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As they begin to tick away
Seconds
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The clock ceases inside of me
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#11
spartan249

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:P... My friend runs a list almost exactly like this... and he rarely beats me. I'm confused, what are you guys doing? How are you guys combating the list?

I fight this list with my dreadraiders list.

2000 pts "Dreadraiders Mk2"
HQ
Librarian: TDA w/ SS, NZ & VoD - 140 pts
Master of the Forge: 1 Servitors - 110 pts
Troops
Scout Squad: SRs, Cloaks - 90 pts
Scout Squad: SRs, Cloaks - 90 pts
Elites
Assault Terminator Squad: 5 TH/SS - 200 pts
Land Raider: Mmelta - 260 pts
Venerable Dreadnought: TLLC, HF - 205 pts
Venerable Dreadnought: TLLC, HF - 205 pts
Heavy Support
Venerable Dreadnought: TLLC, HF - 205 pts
Venerable Dreadnought: TLLC, HF - 205 pts
Fast Attack
Land Speeder: Typhoon Mlauncher - 90 pts
Land Speeder: Typhoon Mlauncher, Mmelta - 100 pts
Land Speeder: Typhoon Mlauncher, Mmelta - 100 pts

I hit the wagons/trukks with as many weapons as it takes to immobilize/destroy them, then turn the guns on the kans. Once the kans are either neutered/destroyed, I then hit the lootas with frag missiles and heavy flamers/terminators, if I still need to. Once all the threats to my armor are either unable to attack or are destroyed, I then turn my attention on the walking Ghazgkhull and friends and kill him. I usually leave the boyz alone unless they come within 12" to my position, in which case I throw in the dreadnoughts to flame and assault if possible.

Barring bad rolls or good cover saves (he uses KFF mekboys), it works like a charm.

8.jpg


QUOTE
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Ghost Knights record: 109W / 26D / 28L


#12
KhorneHunter57x

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As you appear to play Templars, here is what I would take in a Black Templar list to face this:

Emperor's Champion with AAC, NMTO: 140

7 Assault Terminators (your choice on weapons loadout, but I go with 4 Hammers/3 Claws) with Furious Charge: 301
Land Raider Crusader with Smoke, Storm Bolter: 278

10 Initiates with BP/CCW, Meltagun, Power Fist, 4 Neophytes: 225
Land Raider Crusader with Smoke, Storm Bolter: 278

5 Initiates with Plasma Gun, Lascannon: 101
Rhino: 50

5 Initiates with Plasma Gun, Lascannon: 101
Rhino: 50

Vindicator: 125
Vindicator: 125
Predator Annihilator with Lascannon sponsons: 145

This comes out to 1919 points, so it gives you a bit of room to play with additions (hunter-killers?). I would have the Annihilator target the Trukk first, and if it doesn't pop it have the Rhino squads gun for the Trukk, otherwise have them shoot the Kans. The Vindicators and Crusaders can shoot pretty much anything and have effect, but you should have the Crusaders shoot the Kans first. You can either combi-charge a target with the Assault Termies and the Crusader squad, or have them individually charge squads that have been whittled down by the hurricane of fire (pun intended). You can also decide to keep the squads inside their transports, puttering around 6" and blasting away at Orks. Eventually you will have to deal with the Lootas and Stormboyz, but I doubt that your opponent will be suicidal with the Stormboys. Once the Trukk and Kans are dead, have the Rhino squads and Predator start plinking away at the Meganobz. Again, the Vindicators can do pretty much anything for you, as can the Land Raiders and their cargo. One last note: Have the Champion ride with the 14-man squad in the Crusader. Between him, the 14 Initiates with AAC,NMTO, and the Neophytes meat-shields power-klaw catchers, they can handle quite a bit.

Edited by KhorneHunter57x, 03 December 2010 - 06:23 AM.

"...for all the structures and guidelines the Codex Astartes provides for a Space Marine Chapter, its most valuable lessons are those on versatility and adaptation." -pg. 4, Codex Supplement: Angels of Death

I prefer to think that bolt weapons do, in fact, use cased ammunition - mostly for the reasons you state. It looks cool. They jingle when they hit hard ground. It's like the Emperor's wind chimes.


#13
Bartali

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Amazed at all the people recommending tailored small elite assault based lists with little shooting

The Ork list doesn't have any shooting to speak of, and rely on assault for anti-tank. Bring a balanced mech list and shoot, shoot, shoot.

#14
Jackelope King

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Amazed at all the people recommending tailored small elite assault based lists with little shooting

The Ork list doesn't have any shooting to speak of, and rely on assault for anti-tank. Bring a balanced mech list and shoot, shoot, shoot.

Yep.

I wouldn't change up my list at all to take this one on. Between 3x Rifleman Dreads and 3x Dakka Predators, Gazzy and his Nobs are going to be walking. Period. The Lootaz go down next. Heck, I can probably just rush my three HF/MM Landspeeders across the board right into the Lootaz face and dare his army to ignore them. If he does, the Lootaz die the next turn, and my Speeders fly around scorching Boyz from the rear. If he expends Lootaz to shoot at the Speeders, he maxes out at being able to kill only one. If he turns and wheels his Boyz around to try to assault or shoot, I've slowed his whole army down.

I can roll right into a refused flank pretty easily with a hybrid bike list, and without that one trukk, he's slow as dirt. Stormboyz are a joke and will die very easily to my shooting. From there, it's a refused flank game, and 90 boyz take up a lot of room. Everything in his list save dies easily to autocannon fire, which I have in droves. Turn two on will be about putting Autocannon fire into the Kanz. And since they're in squadrons, they're more vulnerable than usual (not to say squadrons of Kanz are bad... that's Kanz at their best, but against my Marines, I can exploit their weaknesses with rate of fire). Meanwhile, my Bikers can wheel around to the flank. Meltaguns won't do much, but everyone still has twin-linked bolters to tear through the mobs. Once a squad is weak enough, I might even run a combat squad with my captain and another with my librarian in to chop the Orks down.

Gazzy and his Nobz are still waddling over, but without a trukk, they're going to have a ways to go.

Then just rinse and repeat. By this point, I've probably got a heavy advantage on half of the table, with largely in-tact orks on the other half. But I will still have most of my force, while he's lost half of his. At this point, I roll my Bikers back out of range of a Waaagh! and pour more Autocannon fire in, sparing whatever Landspeeders I have left to throw out some Heavy Flamer templates. With bikers behind him and autocannons in front of him, the ork player will have to be very canny about not losing his momentum. If he falters, he's toast.

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Threats Win Games ++ Threat Profiles

#15
ShinyRhino

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The real problem when we face this list (amberclad and I both play at the same LGS) is that it's in a tournament environment. Tailored lists will sink you in this environment. I've contemplated bringing a list with two Whirlwinds and a Vindicator to wreck this list's face, but know that they'd be a liability against any of the other armies we play against.

The use of templates is largely irrelevant, anyways. The Ork player makes 100% sure his Mobs are all at max coherency when he moves them, which ensures you hit no more than 3-4 Orks with a flamer, or one with a small blast. Large blasts are a crapshoot, sometimes netting four, sometimes six.

Also, we don't always play straight up Annihilation missions, or even plain book missions. We use a mix of Ard Boyz, Adepticon, and custom screnarios these days in our events. Trying to capture and hold objectives against waves of 30-strong Boyz mobs is an exercise in futility. You can castle up with everything you've got on one objective just to kill ONE Mob, Kan Skwadron, or flight of Stormboyz, but everything else gets you while the other Mobz sit on other objectives and win the game. Leave the objective til late game, and you're trying to dislodge units of 30 Boyz off objectives in two turns with shooting. Just doesn't work.

Ghaz'gul and his Nobz ride around in a Second Edition Tiny Trukk. That old, flat one about the size of a casette tape. It's so small and low that it's easy to hide out of LOS. It's always the first thing he puts on the table, after checking the terrain for LOS lanes. it's not an aggressive unit, really. It's the nail-in-the-coffin unit, or the "Shark in the pool" unit. It moves around the flanks to roll your army from the outside, in.

Several of our local players have started working the Mathammer, and realized that it takes FAR too many bolter shots to kill off a 30-strong Boyz Mob to be viable. A tactical squad at 24" range puts out 7 bolter shots. You only end up with two or three dead Orks per volley, and that's without cover. You just fired a 170+ point unit at a 180 point unit and killed THREE models. It would take ten full units to kill the whole 30-strong Mob! When there's three of those coming at you, spread across the field, with walking Kans providing cover saves, you're straight up boned. Especially when a fast-moving sweeper unit already hit your lines in the form of Stormboyz.
Bolters simply cannot deal with enough Orks in the two turns of shooting they'll get to be useful. Heavy bolters might work wonders, but no one takes heavy bolters in a tournament force.

I personally feel that the way to beat this Ork force is speed. Maneuverable units that can rapidly redeploy are key. Bikers, attack bike squadrons, landspeeders, etc. Skimmers have a HUGE advantage in that they can ignore terrain, AND intervening Orks! Assault Marines are viable, as well, but only as bait, or as a cleanup crew.
The giant advantage of bike and speeder units is that they maintain a level of firepower, even after moving 12". A unit of bikers that can move 12" away from the Mob and still put out at least one twin-linked bolter shot per model is huge. You won't kill all that many per volley, but the ability to kill SOME, while denying close combat is valuable.
Attack bike squadrons are typically armed with multimeltas in just about every turnament list you'll see. I've gone into diatribes about how attack bikes are the perfect platform for multiple heavy bolters before, both in the tactica forum, and in my blog. It applies double here. A full squadron of three attack bikes with heavy bolters can put out three twin-linked bolter shots, and nine heavy bolter shots per turn, even after moving 12". THAT is worthwhile concentrated fire. You don't even need to spam that unit. A single squadron will be just fine, so long as you position it to support multiple standard biker squads. You can either open, or close fire on a Mob with that unit and have the same effect. A volleyof 9 heavy bolter shots can ding up just about every infantry unit in the game, and even threaten heavier units depending on angle of attack.
Speeders with Typhoons are awesome for Kan hunting. The Typhoons outrange the rokkits on the Kans by half. The only threat to the Speeders are the Lootas, who match their range, and carry S7 multishot guns. You'll either have to avoid LOS, or give the Lootas a more pressing target. Or, simply deploy on the opposite flank from them, and move carefully.
MM/HF speeders are also a good choice, as they're versatile enough to be used against all comers, but also brutal enough to kill those Lootas. Deepstrike a unit in, and pop off the heavy flamers into the Lootas. They don't have the numbers to be Fearless, and can be broken with shooting. A lucky roll on the Deepstrike scatter can put your speeders in the perfect position to maximize flamer hits. it's a gamble, but a MM/HF speeder squadron won't do much to the Boyz Mobs anyways, what with the maxxed out 2" coherency he keeps them in.
Assault Marines with flamers make an awesome cleanup crew for Orks, or any depleted unit. Proper kitting with powerfist, meltabombs, etc make them well-rounded enough to finish off a lot of enemies. Their 12" move allows them to keep up with your speedy firebase, too.

I personally think my fledgling army is perfectly suited for finally putting the thumbscrews to the Ork army in question, and I didn't even design it that way. Heck, this whole post is more of a tactical guide for myself, lol.

The Ork player's biggest advantage is that he knows what he's facing week in and week out. The field is heavily MEQ, and those who play non-MEQ armies don't care enough to tailor to beat him, or are too new to do so. He's accepted as the "inevitable winner" in the tourney field, so folks play around him for second place prizes, or for painting and sportsmanship awards. :)
-- "To locate, close with, and destroy the enemy by fire and maneuver, and to repel the enemy assault by fire and close combat."

#16
Ookami_81

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Kan wall + nobz in truks are my usual opponent's favorite. I even helped her paint the kans with those stupid two blasts S6 weapons that kill marines like hell. :)

If you want to tear it apart with ease, listen to your friend Jackelope.

Basically I use:
Some Little AT bikers, four bikers, one MM AB, two MG
Some Big AP bikers, six bikers, one HB AB, two flamers
Of course the mandatory RB biker captain, usually within one of the big AP bikers. Prefered toy is hellfire rounds.
LOTS of Typhoons in squadrons. That is a minimum of four to a max of nine in 2000 pts.
Two Vindicators if I have the points, but they tend to be less effective than Typhoons.
Oh yeah, if you have the points, buy a Whirlie, put it behind cover on the opposite side of your refused flank army, and shoot. Mine is ace, I don't know how it manages to do this, but it always fry something it's not intended to kill, like the big boss truk for example... That is when I use few Typhoons and have horrible luck with mass krak launching...

Against Orks it would be a good idea to invert the general allcomer lists number of bikers. I tend to build more little AT bikers squads than big AP bikers, but it's not a wise move againts hordes.

Usually, at the end of my shooting phase on turn 1, when the dust dissipates, green skins are footslogging, nearly half of the Kanz are burning, with a bit of luck orks in truks are fleeing, and my army is still brand new and shiny. The killgap created is such that even if I have really bad luck and bad planning after that critical phase, I usually win.

EDIT: Ninja'ed by ShinyRhino ! ^^

Edited by Ookami_81, 03 December 2010 - 02:37 PM.

"I love the smell of napalm in the morning... The smell, you know that gasoline smell... Smells like, victory"

#17
Captain Idaho

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You need options instead of relying purely on firepower, otherwise if the you fail to shoot dead enough Orks then your entire game plan goes up in smoke. I agree that tailoring a list in a Tournament to beat a single type of list will result in disappointment.

That’s why Honour Guard in a Rhino/Razorback fills a cheap but effective role. My Idaho pattern (named for the hubris of the main promoter of Honour Guard) costs 225pts for 5 men + Master + Razorback for a total (in my configuration) 435pts. That enables you to chew through Orks in single turns.

Points wise essentially you are swapping a Tactical squad for Honour Guard so it’s not that expensive really.

Recently I had brilliant results from them:

Game 1 of the Throne of Skulls:

Total kills:

  • 10 Ork Sluggas single turn charge
  • 20 Ork Sluggas single turn charge
  • 3 Ork Mega Nobz single turn charge
Total Losses: 2 Honour Guard to assault

Game 2:

Not so good, but killed 8 or so Black Templars but bounced off the the 4 Invulnerable saves of 2 characters (bit disappointing but that’s 40K) and died for their troubles.

Game 3:

  • 10 Tactical Marines single turn charge
  • 10 Tactical Marines single turn charge
  • 5 Assault Terminators with their Storm Shields + Chaplain (bolt pistols killed 2 but enough failed saves to kill the squad twice anyway)
Total Losses: 3 Honour Guard to shooting

Game 4:

  • 26 Ork Sluggas single turn charge
  • 27-28 Ork Sluggas single turn charge
  • 10 Ork Lootas single turn charge
Total Losses: None!

Game 5:

  • Daemon Prince of Nurgle single turn charge but with help from a Dreadnought taking the hits!
  • 5 or so Nurgling bases (can’t be instant killed and have 3 wounds each!) single turn charge
  • 8 Plaguebearers (2 turns thanks to horrifically well rolled 5+ saves and the Master splitting from the unit)
Total Losses: All, after a counter charge from a Great Unclean One. Before only that only the 1…

As you can see the kill tally of the unit is impressive, only once being a real let down. Orks in particular are devastated by the Honour Guard. No other unit in the army can cut such an impressive tally of Ork corpses.

Edited by Captain Idaho, 03 December 2010 - 02:38 PM.


#18
greatcrusade08

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I think you could do worse than to take a redeemer.. those things rock against all comers.. and we have to remember that any advice we give should be something that works against everyone..

with that many orks you need an assault element that can get the job done in one turn, Idaho patter honour guard are a beauty of a unit against the lower initiative orks.. you could go for a chappy and 5 claw termies, its just over 300 points and kicks butt.

my main recomendations would be a thunderfire, telion and a couple of ironclads with dual heavy flamers.. t-fires can ignore cover and get those pesky lootas and whatnot, Telion can get rid of a PK nob ver a couple of turns, whilst the AV13 ironclads are more survivable against S8 klaws and with dual flamers can kill anything with massed wounds

#19
bystrom

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Note: Only based on theory, that is, general ideas I think are worth considering, but I haven't played orks.

Different ways to make units bunch up:
Tank shock (especially considering its often a do-or-die for a nob, while you're risking a 35 pt transport, not to mention tank shock so that the nob isn't displaced and therefore can't death-or-glory at all)
Use combat tactics after losing an assault
Send in a dreadnought to tie them up for a while, then, when its finally destroyed, they're bunched up or they have to use a lot of time moving just to spread out. Or just lock them sometime during the middle of the game, someplace useless and take them out of the equation for a while (or the whole game).
Using impassible terrain, or making them go through dangerous terrain such as wrecked vehicles (either they lose models or they bunch up)

Ways to kill large ork mobs:
CC (beat them by a lot, especially easy if you have high toughness and/or a good save. Make sure to charge, not be charged)
Make them bunch up and then hit them with templates

Edited by bystrom, 03 December 2010 - 04:42 PM.

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#20
hazardousZERO

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This might have been said but have you considered some sternguard. I would say give them all combi flamers mount them in a pod and rost some orks.

Also try shrike infil a full assault squad with flamers and a PW it will hope to distract him.

I think the big issue is he sees all of you army and there are no suprises. Take things that will come in frop deep strike and or just out menouver him as long as you can.

Edited by hazardousZERO, 03 December 2010 - 05:10 PM.

"Fast we moved, fast, not hanging between walls, entrapment is death, fast, trust and discipline...Never rest, always forwards, hunger for the enemy, that"s what they taught us..." Angron to Khârn

#21
Hellios

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He's accepted as the "inevitable winner" in the tourney field, so folks play around him for second place prizes, or for painting and sportsmanship awards. :P


Thats why you lose... god I wish Darth Vader was still alive (I mean apart from in my heart)... he would choke 7 kinds of hell out of you guys, find your lack of faith to be disturbing and tell you that you don't understand the power of the dark side (AKA Chaos)!

So... what you require is a list that eats orks and heavy meq... Go go Imperial guard! Oh and it needs to be some kind of space marine... well I'm sure it can be done :D you just need to train harder... at least 15hours of game time a week if not more! Don't make us post the jeske to you! he is a harsh task master...

#22
Captain Juan Juarez

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He's accepted as the "inevitable winner" in the tourney field, so folks play around him for second place prizes, or for painting and sportsmanship awards. :P


Thats why you lose... god I wish Darth Vader was still alive (I mean apart from in my heart)... he would choke 7 kinds of hell out of you guys, find your lack of faith to be disturbing and tell you that you don't understand the power of the dark side (AKA Chaos)!



I don't recall you mentioning your creepiness factor in the "What Age Are You?" thread, but i think I just figured it out :D


Don't dance to the tune of your opponents fiddle; he obviously knows how to counter ploys designed to defeathis army so do something unexpected!

Edited by Captain Juan Juarez, 03 December 2010 - 08:06 PM.

" They made you to be untouched by God or mortal. As I cannot kill you, so I curse you, not with death but with life.

I curse you - with the pain of ten thousand days in the Dark Place, with the life's blood of a mage's sacrifice, with Death's authority held in my hands.

I curse you, and I strike your name from history, stripped of arrogance and pride, empty of the self you once knew, gutted of all you are. I take your name and all you have won by the strength of your hand. I curse you for eternity, to find only darkness where once you knew your own face.

And I dub you the Ragged Man."

#23
BrotherWade

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Using black templars, you have an interesting list of options to combat this type of list in your play environment. If you could post the standard list that you use in your tournament setting, it would help deliver a better ground to help you. While tailoring your list to face down/beat down this opponent, most of the time a good deployment strategy can force your opponent to make hard choices.

Dictate the game flow, your opponent is being very aggressive, there are ways to force this army to be re-active rather then active. An ork army of that size relies upon the speed of the 2-3 units that move fast and tie up the enemy while the rest of the army lumbers forward. Use that to your advantage, take out fast moving units while forcing his bulk army to split into two units. This is done by equally dividing your army into two pieces placed at either end. At midfield your opponent is forced to either split or go in one direction, take advantage of this by moving up the sides if you can and force him to spread out more. With his forces spread out and numerically divided, it provides a greater amount of time for your units to shoot. Use transports to block his advance on foot as gazz only has one waaagh. If he burns it and it fails...

He is within 12 inches, don't keep rapid firing/scoot and shooting him. Take the fight to the orks. This is the only way to turn the tide on 20+ ork mobs. They are terrible on defense and will strike last. You can chew up a good 8ish with tactical marine charge (given a vet with some cool toys) and hit another 5ish with a bolt pistol furisade before entering combat. You gain double the attacks, strike before him, and take away his attacks. Being fearless at the beginning, he will take more wounds for losing combat (dropping another 3-4 orks in the process). You win next combat round because of your resilience with decent rolling of hit/wound.

Gazzz just has to have his transport shot out from under him first turn and ignored. Stormboys will have to jump to one side or another, probably within an open fire lane because of you field of vision from not one, but two fire base locations. You don't have to kill all the stormboys in shooting, just drop there number below 15ish and assault them like you would a boyz squad. Kans are really a non-factor until turn 4ish. They have to split up which brings down there coverage area. You catch most of his army in a deadly cross fire on turns 2-3 depending on his movement/run/terrain.



#24
Bartali

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Also, we don't always play straight up Annihilation missions, or even plain book missions. We use a mix of Ard Boyz, Adepticon, and custom screnarios these days in our events.


There we go then, you're no longer playing 40k. Codicies are written to support the missions in the BRB.

#25
chaplain belisarius

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you play BT? theres only one option then....CHARGE!!!!!!!!!

have fun..:jaw:
coming soon; 1k sisters of battle!...(on hold till GW do plastic SOB)

currently inventing my own chaos warband-the death knights!

Life is a prison, death a release....

Dammit jim! Im a gamer, not a painter!