How can you beat this ork list?!

[Zynk Kaladin]

It they didnt think so Id let them win by concession.

 

What you said.

 

It they didnt think so Id choke-slam one of them into the table.

 

What you were thinking

[gettothegone]

As for taking on such a hoard list with an all biker list, it is always going to be tough because they have the numbers to lock you down, thus negating your mobility

 

Which is why combat tactics is excellent with bikers.

 

Also, am I understanding this right... its a like table wide line of orc boyz, which he assaults, then just for the hell of it, he makes a like 2' assault move to get all of them in B2B?

 

Cause if that's the case, then you're not losing to this list, you're losing to incredible omission of a really REALLY important rule.

[ShinyRhino]

As for taking on such a hoard list with an all biker list, it is always going to be tough because they have the numbers to lock you down, thus negating your mobility

 

Which is why combat tactics is excellent with bikers.

 

Also, am I understanding this right... its a like table wide line of orc boyz, which he assaults, then just for the hell of it, he makes a like 2' assault move to get all of them in B2B?

 

Cause if that's the case, then you're not losing to this list, you're losing to incredible omission of a really REALLY important rule.

 

Just to be clear, since the discussion has gone a tad off-topic from the OP, that the Ork player referenced by myself and the OP is NOT the person using extra movement during pile in moves. Rippeddragon is very concientious with his movement measurements and such.

 

 

Now, as for Combat Tactics and bikers being super-useful against Hordes...maybe. I find that when assaulted by Orks, there are typically no survivors in my bike squads. In the very slim chance there are, failing Morale to fall back with a 3d6 roll is very very risky. Too much distance, and you're gone entirely. Useful for clearing the mob for shooting, but not for saving your own hide.

In the last game Iplayed against the OP list, I simply was not able to advance out of my deployment zone. Too many Kans, and too many Orks all spread out across the long plane of the board. Moving forward put me squarely in charge range due to Ghaz's Super Waaagh! rule (which is the only part of an Ork army I feel is broken ;)).

[breng77]

You said it right in your post, clearing them for shooting is Key, the last thing you want is to have one bike stuck in and keeping you from shooting those orks.

[gettothegone]

I think I jumped in a bit too fast then.

 

My only real major loss so far has been against an Ork army very similar to the above, so I started reading through the thread. The rest usually are just badly made decisions for Lulz rather then wins.

 

I meant to say that Combat Tactics is awesome with bikes because you can get so far away, I didn't really see the hordes thing, and yeah table edges seem to get close real fast,

 

One thing I DO with my bike army is try to multi assault as much S3 as possible with my command squad, and force wounds everywhere, I've managed to dissolve 2x squads of 60 Orks by doing this just through fearless wounds alone.

 

While I love my bikes, unfortunately I don't think that bikes are the solution to orc hordes except for smartly played kill point missions, and possible 5th turn contest draws in objective based games. I'll go back to lurking, thanks for the clarification.

 

2' Assault moves... epic :rolleyes:

[Grey Mage]

It they didnt think so Id let them win by concession.

 

What you said.

 

It they didnt think so Id choke-slam one of them into the table.

 

What you were thinking :)

Im a very zen person... I wouldnt actually hurt them over something that small.

 

Of course, people like that rarely keep it small. Gotta be careful on that.

 

'om'.

[Zynk Kaladin]

Im a very zen person... I wouldnt actually hurt them over something that small.

 

I know. I was just tuggin' on your beard.

 

Of course, people like that rarely keep it small. Gotta be careful on that.

 

Sad, but true.

[Algesan]

I just watched that movie for the first time last week!

 

 

whaaaa? thats an inconic movie, i think it should be required viewing for all gamers..

my mates like to joke as my last name is Evans -_-

 

Beyond iconic. I actually have a set of Brit troops from the Anglo-Zulu wars on order that I'm going to see if I can mess with for fun as IG in my spare time.

 

Actually, the "head" is supposed to fix you, the "horns" encircle and pin you against the "head" (restrict your maneuver options) and then when you are bent over the "loins" finish the job. Ok, actually the "loins" simply hit where they are needed, but I'm sure the same joke was told by Shaka when he devised the tactic.

 

If Ripped Dragon is actually keeping closely to the spirit of those tactics, then the keys are mobility (easy), firepower (not as easy) and counterassault to finish. Note that the counterassault is to Finish. We might be able to glory about that 5 Initiate squad of Crusaders slamming in and butchering a bunch of Boyz before dying horribly, but to paraphrase the UM movie, it is the lust for glory that gets men cut to ribbons and glory is a distant second to victory.

 

His major #1 strength is that this is an extremely active list. Using his Zulu analogy, the tabletop gives him what the Zulus had to work hard for at Isandlwana, namely getting into active charge range where they didn't have to weather massive firepower on the way in. Ripped is making his opponents react to him with multiple threats that can cover each other. I'd wonder how many times Ripped has looked across the table and watched his opponent "blink", because at that point it is game over.

 

Key to stopping it: make him react to you. As soon as he has to react with his list to your threats (Note: NOT his planned reactions to certain threats as his opponent flails at him), you will have done what the Brits ended up doing to the Zulus when they broke them.

 

How? It depends on how your list is built. What you cannot do is try to match his assault strength head on (usually, a 'Nid list might enjoy it).

 

I'm not real clear on part of his deployment: I see using max coherency, but is this simply blobs of Boyz at max spread or long lines?

 

If it is blobs then with sufficient AT (especially if he deployed first and is moving first), focus on popping a squadron of Kanz first, if you get two of them down, then he loses all that lovely 4" dead space between each model for his cover saves. As soon as it is one Kan left as long as every model can find one Boy that isn't hiding behind that Kan, then the cover save just went <poof>. This is contra what many are arguing for (focus on the Trukk), but either you can wait a turn for it or you try to set up for a tarpit. Make a hole or a flank to be worked on and hammer it to death.

 

If it is long lines (silly), well set up your terrain better to break them up/slow them down or get a unit to assault them on one end. Especially if you have hit 'n' run because it will limit your casualties while still forcing him to attempt to get into CC with your unit.

 

The more I think about it, the Kanz might be the weak point, especially if you have a decent amount of AT firepower. Don't lose track of the other elements, you will have to find some way to deal with the Stormboyz and the contents of the Trukk, but clear the Kanz from support and then pound the Boyz.

[Algesan]

Yeah, I know it's cheating, but when 50% of the gaming group does it and 25% haven't read the rules yet, it's hard to make the person stop. -_-

The other day I lost a game because a squad of ravenors rolled a four for their difficult terrain test to assault my tactical squad. He called me a spoil sport and the entire group got pissed at me for slowing down the game when I told him he couldn't assault my tactical squad 6" away because he has to go into base to base contact and he can only go 4"...

 

Well, one way I did it when I ran into that kind of stuff (we really did have a limited amount of time to play and a couple of us were just learning by hearing) was printing out something on the GW site about the major changes and passing it along to one of the vets. He went through and made some notes about where we had been messing up and apologized the next week for the last few weeks. I also mentioned that since we were all learning, let's don't worry about how many games we get done, but about reading the rules every time someone was :cuss?

 

The key point? "You don't want to win games by accidentally cheating do you?"

 

If you have a list of the "usual broken rules", then reference out the page numbers and highlight them in your rulebook. Use the "accidentally cheating" line or "We are playing this by the rules, aren't we?" or something similar and let them read the rules if they want.

 

Ignoramus: "But you are slowing down the game, let's go and have fun!"

You: "Well, do we want to have fun by the rules or just make them up as we go along?"

 

If that doesn't work, pull out some of the various oversized templates (it would be fun if you did it proportional to the max move to contact by the Ork/'Nid horde) and note that since measurements don't matter and everyone can pick and choose how they follow the rules... Not forgetting to add in the extra shooting range...

 

I mean, I'm all about fun and if someone happens to squeeze a little extra out of a model in a unit, I don't worry about it as long as they aren't making it a big habit. It does make it go quicker to simply measure one model, move it and then scoot up the rest of the unit in about the same formation.