What do you want in the next "Codex: Chaos Space Marines" ?

[totgeboren]

ah so focus on renegades . Hmm how strange they did that with this dex and it didnt work . I mean where are those post on the forum about "I made the other red khorn marines can you help me with the list" ? I dont see them on the forums not just the ones run in english.

I would rather have a WE army and a DG army that have different game play , then have the "option" to run countless renegade armies that all look identical . + Personaly I find the whole focus on renegades making little sense . Legions were huge organisations and unlike a few hundred strong/company sized warbands [that have no supplies or support] , them surviving in the eye does make sense .

They didn't focus on renegades in this dex. Fluffwise they did focus on them, but the list is a mess that offers neither Legion support nor Renegade support. All it does is reward players who just ignore any notion of fluff.

I just don't see the problem with allowing people who want to make a Khorne warband the option of doing a "World Eater" theme, with basically all infantry being tooled for close combat, or doing a more renegade theme with more of an "assault tactical squads" style army. Just giving people the option would increase creativity and fun by a huge amount.

 

Someone who wants a Nurgle Warband might want a Death Guard army, and then theme them appropriatle. The infantry don't have any heavy weapons, and they generally advance on foot. Or they might want to do any of the other warbands who are dedicated to Nurgle. Who says they would throw all their heavy weapons away? Their fluff might be quite different from the Death Guards.

 

But I agree that renegades should be a minor player. Both the Legions and the LatD should be a much bigger threat than the renegades.

 

and after you get marked to khorn you gom"kill kill kill" . khorn worshipers are monothematical at least in the non FW fluff. + our own codex tells us that as soon as a marine goes rogue they throw away every form of boundry they had[and a book telling you how stuff should be done is just that] .

 

I just chose to ignore the modern fluff of "Khorne = insane homicidal maniac". Ok, some might be good enough fighters that they can behave that way and survive, but generally, it just doesn't make any sense, even within the totally insane setting that is w40k.

And regarding the boundaries, that's exactly what I mean! They should throw the book away, but they would probably keep to their preferred ways anyway. And it doesn't make any sense at all that they should for example start following Death Guard fighting doctrines as soon as they get marked by Nurgle. The marked Legions are not the same thing as the God. That's like saying all Space Marines are the same, because they follow the Emperor. Just within the SM codex there are rules provided to represent many different chapters, even though they all follow the Codex Astartes.

 

If they can be so diverse when under the strict rule of the CA, why must CSM who follow one of the Gods be so extremely hemmed in by boundaries? I just don't get it. I get that Death Guards fight like they have always fought, but I don't get why "fallen Chapter X, who used to specialise in infiltration and lighting strikes, and have now fallen to Nurgle" would suddenly be forced to follow the same combat doctrines as the Death Guards? Ok, they both are marked by the same god, but in what way would that make them totally revise their combat doctrines?

[Decepticon Soundwave]

My unfortunate problem is I have almost 30k of chaos, so I hope they do not take away my renegades or my legionaries. I think end of the day we need a codex the size of the standard marine dex.

 

Characters give us option for warsmith, dark apostle, talon master and give our characters veteran skill options

 

8 elites choices for out cult terminators + what we have and something to make possessed and dreads playable

 

our 5 troop choices plus vanilla deamons/ chaos deamons, deamons

 

plague and noise havocs

 

more fast attack and more competitive choices

 

Ohh small side note the vanilla deamons are not deamons by the grey knights book so baby blood thurster and naked summoned deamons don't get insta murdered.

[the jeske]

They didn't focus on renegades in this dex.

Both the desingers for the codex and JJ told us they did and that this is why the legions are not prominent in the dex. Also Gav told us that the rules were cut also because when they did the design for the codex , he was told that a legion dex or something to make legion players more happy was in plans [the fact that aside for some apocalyps formation nothing like that happened is a different story].

Fluffwise they did focus on them, but the list is a mess that offers neither Legion support nor Renegade support.

let me check . the only new thing is a story about corsairs . we get about 4 or 5 pages[no dex with me] with "how to pain your renegades in a different shade of legion colors] . legion fluff does not exist . When the dex comes out there is heavy focus on huron and his warband . + again the DT tells us they are focusing on renegades , so who are we to argue with them?

 

I just don't see the problem with allowing people who want to make a Khorne warband the option of doing a "World Eater" theme, with basically all infantry being tooled for close combat, or doing a more renegade theme with more of an "assault tactical squads" style army.

ah and the gav dex does that better in what way ? If I wanted a khorn demon/army bomb I took khorn bikers , a good khorn DP [glaiv etc] mix of zerkers and csm [minimax and 8 man rhino squads. no not for fluff for points effectines] with FC veteran trait. IF I wanted to have a WE army I took 8 man zerker squads , blood tailsmans , same DP a rhino screen for the zerkers [they wouldnt ride in those just get LoS blockers].

 

What can i do in with the totaly open to all options gav dex. I can take 2xDP [which all other chaos lists legion or not will probably do too] , I will take zerkers and either defilers or oblits ... wait that is the same list everyone uses.

Just like mage says and everyone else since the dex was leaked . 3.5 dex gave us different builds , the gav dex gave us new ways to paint our models . There is 0 game play difference between playing a WE , khorn csm and lets say slanesh dedicted army . Why? because the support units are always the same and there is no varity in unit rules .

 

Who says they would throw all their heavy weapons away? Their fluff might be quite different from the Death Guards.

are we talking here about fluff or about rules ? fluff wise the problem is that the plague nurgle dudes carry damage their eyes which makes targeting a problem , same with the lowered reaction time [and yes there are no nurgle followers that are not diseased] . they do short range combat not because they like it , but because long range aint easy for them . Rules wise taking a +1T buff for static[hvy weapon] teams make no sense . even if it was free it would still be better to run a short range/assault army . why ? because it is easier to break and destory units in hth for chaos ,then it is to destroy units with shoting.

I just chose to ignore the modern fluff of "Khorne = insane homicidal maniac"

where is that modern fluff ? FW stuff is not official . chaos dex tells us that khorn followers are maniacal killers that cant control themself and that WE are even more over the top then that.

 

it just doesn't make any sense, even within the totally insane setting that is w40k.

there are reasons why the WE are one of the dieing out legions and why chaos khorn warbands are not well known . their existance is rather short .

 

 

They should throw the book away, but they would probably keep to their preferred ways anyway.

all other gods of chaos[other then khorn that is] do give options for followers . a nurgle dude can count diseases , can spread them , can make new ones. slany guys have worlds of xp to work on , tzeench guys are all about changing , so their work never ends. khorn is about one thing . skulls and killing . when your not killing and your marked by khorn , your not doing his job . that is why in their free time khorn followers fight and kill each other , and lords like huron who have khorn cult on board their ships send them new targets to keep them a bit under control [else they would start butchering the crews] . What ever preferred ways a marine or human have before being marked by khorn , those things become unimportant when you do . then your just about the next kill and nothing else.

 

 

 

That's like saying all Space Marines are the same, because they follow the Emperor

and wards fluff tells us that they mostly are , that all of them want to be like ultramarines and folllow the codex the way ultramarines do . People may not like it , but it is official.

 

 

but I don't get why "fallen Chapter X, who used to specialise in infiltration and lighting strikes, and have now fallen to Nurgle" would suddenly be forced to follow the same combat doctrines as the Death Guards?

well old legion fluff and old legion rules actualy did make DG use a lot of infiltration , but that doesnt matter now . Why you ask ? it is simple . GW will not give you paterns to build generic chaos warband rule X , but they could give rules for a legion . the other option for GW is to make a BL/renegade codex like we have now . I would rather have a codex with a DG and WE army that have different gameplay , then have a one list to rule them all gav dex. As for warbands go . A no one cares for your own warband , other then you and compering to the player base of the least popular legion your needs to represent an infiltrating nurgle army are unimportant . + in the age of counts as you can do an infiltration army with other dex.

[maverike_prime]

+ in the age of counts as you can do an infiltration army with other dex.

 

I'm sorry, but that sort of comment is as worthless today as it was 5 years ago when people said SW players should use the Chaos Codex to build an up to date army. If that's the route GW intends us to take that can take half the Codexes off the wall right now and burn 'em. If someone wants to use a different codex to build an army on a counts-as basis that's their prerogative. But don't stand there and tell us that like it's a standard preferred practice. The standard practice is: You want to build Army X, you should look at the Army X Codex.

[totgeboren]

A no one cares for your own warband , other then you and compering to the player base of the least popular legion your needs to represent an infiltrating nurgle army are unimportant . + in the age of counts as you can do an infiltration army with other dex.

 

Dude, I think you missed the point of my post entirely. I play Word Bearers, and have since 2:ed. Those examples with Khorne and Nurgle armies were just examples I made up on the spot. I myself will probably never do a God-specific army, I love my Word Bearers too much. But I reasoned others might want the option, like I want the option of fielding proper Dark Apostles. Just because I might have zero interest in the "Skulltakers of Karnak" (or something) does not mean that the one who do have them should just be ignored. There are really no obstacles to making a Chaos Marine codex that allows me to play my favourite legion, you to play yours, and the one player of the Skulltakers to play his, and we can all have armies that do not fight in the same way.

 

As you said

"There is 0 game play difference between playing a WE , khorn csm and lets say slanesh dedicted army . Why? because the support units are always the same and there is no varity in unit rules ."

 

Entirely true, but I think the reason for that is because cult troops are so extremely hemmed in options-wise. If they had access to proper special and heavy weapons, players would be free to use different supporting units. And the supporting units needs proper points cost too of course.

 

And in your post you point out the most important thing "no one cares for your own warband , other then you". And that is the essence. If the player "you" can't make an army they care about and peaks their interest, they will not enjoy the game. If I direct this statement at you personally, (so not to be misunderstood); The only person that need to be interested in the background of your army is you.

If you are not interested in the background of your own army, the writers have done an really bad job.