Telveryon Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I'll start, as always with a bullet point version of the IA, to give both me and you, my fellow Liberites, an idea where I want to end up at. Without further ado... Here are the Harbingers of Woe! Name: Harbingers of Woe (HoW for short) Founding: 9th Gene-seed: Vulkan via Salamanders Origins: http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d57/Blackmagev/Space%20Marines/HoW.jpg Harbingers of Woe Marine They are given the name based on a reading of the Emperor's Tarot, needless to say, the Salamander training cadre aren't all to keen on the name. They eventually settle on the planet of Karadran halfway between the Galactic Core and the Maelstrom which suffers from constant Dark Eldar raids. Due to the Dark Eldar raids, the region around Karadran was high on piety. When the HoW removed the Dark Eldar threat the piety of the region began to slip. At the onset of M34 the region begins to attract the attention of the Ecclesiarcy. To avoid the attention of the Frateris Templar, the HoW try to maintain piety of the region though good will. The HoW fail, the Fateris Templar intervene and restore faith but with considerable collateral damage. After a several centuries (maybe a millenia) the region's faith begins to slip again. HoW try the good will approach again but it fails as last time. To avoid the Frateris intervention, the Chapter decides to make themselves an object of fear for the region while doing as little damage as possible. With the blessing of the Inquisition, the HoW attack several high profile nobles and publicly execute them is a very gruesome fashion. The2nd company eventually gets stranded on rebel planet, the Captain of the company, unable to attack any major target on the planet, tries to rekindle the faith in the Emperor the same way the they keep the peace around their own homeworld, but with fewer stops . After 40 years the HoW return backed up by a conventional Imperial force. They find the planet in opened revolt and have no trouble reconquering it. The HoW are reunited with their lost brothers, while the main body of the chapter isn't too keen on their brother's actions, the results can't be denied Aforementioned Captain ends up as the Chapter Master in spite of his unorthodox methods, because of high success rate The marines that were stranded end up veterans (these guys would have some very good survival instincts) but can't get along with their more traditional brothers. (Let's chalk this misunderstandings to an inclination of the former to terrorize people as well as being quite sneaky) The former Captain splits the first company in two, the traditional marines remain in the first, while the the unorthodox ones return to the second. The non veteran marines of the second company are split between the two companies to maintain effectiveness. With time the influence of the second company grows within the Chapter, particularly during the Age of Apostasy, and with it the length to which chapter is willing to go to achieve victory. Homeworld: Karadran A very old, tidal locked world orbiting a star that is near the end of its main faze. The planet is far from its sun and used to be covered with frozen oceans, but once it became tide locked water levels dropped and it gained a heavy cloud cover The planet's core is completely cooled off, making it a mining bonanza. Sunny side of the planet has considerable jungle coverage with the population being concentrated in large domed (to shield the population from radiation that makes it though the cloud cover) cities build around huge mines, dark side is a frozen wasteland with a very sparse population concentrated in small town beneath the ice build around small mines (see a pattern?), in the twilight belt there is constant vicious storm that nothing can cross Flora and fauna outside the cities is near Death World dangerous, lacking giant predators, but making up with very cunning ones Life at the outskirts of the cities is very dangerous and fear is a constant companion for those the leave there. HoW recruit from both sides of the planet, those from the dark side tend to end up among the 2nd company veterans Beliefs: The Chapter maintains a more skewed versions of the Promethean cult. They maintain the loyalty and self-reliance bit, but the self sacrifice is view as more of a sacrifice of self. In other words they abandon their ideals to keep the rest of the humanity on the straight and narrow. After centuries of maintaining faith trough fear, the have come to believe their own propaganda that only though Emperor can there be salvation for the human race and that any human that does not do so, must be made to There is an intense competition between the 1st and 2nd companies for the heart of the Chapter 1st company maintains the fear should be tool to be used sparingly 2nd company maintains that fear is the answer to just about everything and will try to used it every chance they get They maintain the the smiting tradition of the Salamanders mostly as a means of keeping at least some touch with their humanity When being induced as an initiate, novices must assemble their own armor (with the help of Tech Marines) as the armor is viewed as much part of the marine as his skin. As times goes one, marines keep adding and modifying the armor integrating awards and trophies. Armor can become quite impressive for the older members When he dies, he is buried with that armor. (Only Terminator Armor is passed to the Next generation) Combat Doctrine Mostly follow the codex with a strong favor for terror tactics (mostly presenting what happens if you cross the Emperor) Are very efficient at bringing planets rebel planets back in the Imperium They believe that by scaring the enemy into submission they can limit collateral damage and casualties. On the strategic level, the HoW are slower then most other chapters as they sap the enemy's will to fight and turn the local population against him (if the population sided with the enemy that is) On the tactical level they're as fast and brutal as they can be, preferring to rout the enemy then pursue him rather then wiping him outright 2nd company uses terror almost exclusively with a penchant for working behind enemy lines and mobile warfare. 1st company rely very little on terror, they're the chapter's sledgehammer Organization Mostly Codex. They maintain the 6 battle companies and 1 scout company of the Salamanders, but due to high recruitment rates, the battle companies are around 150 each and the scout company has the standard 100 scouts. Veterans split between 1st and 2nd company, each these companies 60 veterans and 90 non-veteran members with the 2nd having more assault marines then average while the 1st more devastators. 1st company veterans deploy only as terminators, 2nd company only in power armor Battlecry: Tremble before the Emperor's might! ++Edit++ Added an image of one of these fellows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringlancer Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Thulsa Doon: Contemplate this on the Tree of Woe....Crucify him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I like the ideas you've presented, nothing screams at me "Purge the Heretic" so I say continue, sirrah. Also, kudos on using the word "fellows" ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingsOfTheFalcon Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 As a Salamanders successor why would they adopt the 10 company Codex Astartes organisation, if I'm right in thinking the Salamanders have 7 companies of 120 marines? It seems strange for the warriors who formed the Chapter to depart from this tradition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telveryon Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Because the main reason the Salamanders adopted that organization was out of necessity due to their slow recruitment. As the Harbingers are no longer subject to that limitation it's only reasonable to assume that they would use the standard Codex organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingsOfTheFalcon Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I suppose, though I think they'd maybe think about 140 marines per Company and retaining the 7 Companies. I don't know why but to me Astartes seem like they would be fairly resistant to change, that said it's just a suggestion based upon my perception of the fluff! :lol: Keep at it, look forward to watching this one progress through the Iron Gauntlet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telveryon Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Latest Codex: Space Marines says that the high Lords prefer to create Codex chapters ergo the prevalence of Ultramarine and Iron Fists successors. But now that I think of it... Keeping the Salamanders organizations might work slightly better then the Codex one. I'll have to think on it a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reyner Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I had the same problem with my DIY Chapter, I still haven't decided on 10 companies or 7 companies. Larger Companies would work better for crusading and may make them more flexible with added Assault Squads or whatever. For your guys I think larger companies would work on the terror front, more astartes always = more soiled pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 They are given the name based on a reading of the Emperor's Tarot, needless to say, the Salamander training cadre aren't all to keen on the name and for a time. And for a time- What? And for a time they sat around having cream and sugar in their tea? Eventually the Captain of the 2nd company observes that faith in the Emperor spikes every time world under their protection is attacked by the Dark Eldar. I sense a xenos alliance coming up... ^_^ The Captain's (I'll need to come up with a cool name for this fellow) company eventually gets stranded on rebel planet, he tries to rekindle the faith in the Emperor the same way the presence of the Dark Eldar does, though terror. I like this. I don't know why, but I do. After 40 years the HoW return backed up by an Imperial Crusade. They find the planet in opened revolt and have no trouble reconquering it. I doubt they would get a whole crusade. Those things are massive affairs, involving hundreds of guard regiments and many, many chapters. If this happened, we would have heard about it. The marines that were stranded end up veterans (these guys would have some very good survival instincts) but can't get along with their more traditional brothers. (Let's chalk this misunderstandings to an inclination of the former to terrorize people as well as being quite sneaky) Why do they have good survival instincts? The planet's core is completely cooled off, making it a mining bonanza. It's details like these that make an IA sound good and interesting. HoW recruit from both sides of the planet, those from the dark side tend to end up among the 2nd company veterans Why? When being induced as an initiate, novices must assemble their own armor (with the help of Tech Marines). When he dies, he is buried with that armor. (Only Terminator Armor is passed to the Next generation) Hold it! I find it doubtful that each and every marine would make their own armor, then get rid of it when they die. If they could do that, there would be a whole lot more marines. They believe that by scarring the enemy into submission they can limit collateral damage and causalities Eentervesting... I vike it. Mostly Codex. 10 companies and that jazz I'm going to go with the why not seven group. Sounds cool. Keep it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telveryon Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 And for a time- What? And for a time they sat around having cream and sugar in their tea? I hate it when I do things like this, I change a how I formulate a sentence in my mind but then I forget to change it on the computer as well. I sense a xenos alliance coming up... :cuss You sense wrong. The Harbingers of Woe are as xenophobic as the rest of the Imperium. I don't plan to include any such alliances in the final article. I like this. I don't know why, but I do. They're genetically engineered super soldiers with a demonic visage that terrorize people into believing in the Emperor! What's not to like? I doubt they would get a whole crusade. Those things are massive affairs, involving hundreds of guard regiments and many, many chapters. If this happened, we would have heard about it. That is quite true, you don't send a crusade to retake a planet. It was just a quick way of saying sizable imperial force, I definitely won't be using the same formulation in the article proper. Why do they have good survival instincts? They survived for 40 years on a planet where just about everyone wanted them dead and they still manage to terrorize the population. I'd say that qualifies as having good survival instincts. But at the end of the day that parenthesis was exactly that just a parenthesis, a minor quip that won't make it into the final cut. HoW recruit from both sides of the planet, those from the dark side tend to end up among the 2nd company veterans Why? Well, those individuals live in small towns under the ice in a place that never sees the light of day because they're too headstrong and proud to tolerate the squalor of a cities on the sunny side. They see the people of the cities as weak and easily frightened, which is saying something as I plant to make those people be able to wield a weapon before their allowed out of the house. It's not hard to see the dark side inhabitants enjoy using fear as a weapon. Hold it! I find it doubtful that each and every marine would make their own armor, then get rid of it when they die. If they could do that, there would be a whole lot more marines. Firstly, I would like to point out that they assemble their own armor, not make it from scratch. Secondly, where talking about a Salamanders successor chapter that has maintained the smiting traditions of its progenitors and is sitting on a resource gold mine. If Salamanders have enough artifacts to distribute them among the general troops then why wouldn't one of their successors be able to build a suit of (non-artifact) power armor for each and every marine? Lastly, power armor is hardly the limiting main factor when it comes to Space Marine population. The Imperium has enough to equip the Sisters of Battle and Techpriests with it. Gene-seed on the other hand is far rarer. Eentervesting... I vike it. Damn Firefox spell checker, there are some words that I always misspell! Sounds cool. Keep it up. Thanks, I'm glad you like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothete Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 It's perhaps not the most auspicious omen that I'm listening to Johnny Cash's American V album and "God's Gonna Cut You Down" just came on as I started this critique. They are given the name based on a reading of the Emperor's Tarot, needless to say, the Salamander training cadre aren't all to keen on the name. Why wouldn't the training cadre interpret this as meaning that they're bring woe to those who stand against the manifest destiny of the human race, that they're to be the instruments of crushing the threats that would destroy the people they shepherd and protect? Only a surface reading of the name with no further thought suggests that it ought to be interpreted as something negative for the Chapter or its charges. Eventually the Captain of the 2nd company observes that faith in the Emperor spikes every time world under their protection is attacked by the Dark Eldar. I'm not necessarily sure why this would be the case and, if you want to stay this course, you're going to need to develop the point conisderably. It's been established in canon fluff that a number of worlds turned from the Imperium when under duress, bending their collective knees as a way to save their own hides. Given the mastery of torture and deprivation that the Dark Eldar possess and the incredibly disheartening rumors that surround their exploits (real and imagined), there needs to be a good justification for a sustained increase in the faith of the populace. I can all too easily imagine that those under attack might find themselves praying for salvation and reaching out to the Emperor, going by that old saying I've never been too fond of, "There are no atheists in foxholes." However, if their rescue doesn't come or is long in arriving, why wouldn't the people turn their backs? The Captain's (I'll need to come up with a cool name for this fellow) company eventually gets stranded on rebel planet, he tries to rekindle the faith in the Emperor the same way the presence of the Dark Eldar does, though terror. This is a big, big leap for a Salamander to make. Assuming that you weave a convincing backdrop for this to take place against, you're then going to have to give us something concrete to show how a Marine from a Chapter known for their extensive humanitarian streak and uncommon degree of understanding would go to a length where he would willingly act against the populace. It's a logical step if you can see that the piratical madmen preying on the worlds around you lead to a surge of faith and resilience, but the means don't necessarily justify the end. How does the Captain come to the point where he's willing to risk the wellbeing and, perhaps, even the lives of those he's guarding in order to push them towards a greater faith in the Imperium and its Master? What do his men think of this campaign and how does he convince them to buck their training and the culture of the Salamanders, which they had inherited? To what lengths are they willing to go and how are their efforts as effective, unless they become as bad as those they're fighting? The HoW are reunited with their lost brothers, while the main body of the chapter isn't too keen on their brother's actions, the results can't be denied You need to explain the above issues before this part will be believable, I'm afraid. I know that throws a wrench into the overall plot you're looking to build. Aforementioned Captain ends up as the Chapter Master in spite of his unorthodox methods, because of high success rate I'm not sure about this part. If the Salamanders had a Captain who was amazingly effective at winning wars and bringing his Marines home, but he killed innocents to accomplish his goals, would he be likely to be chosen? If the Ultramarines had a Captain who totally flaunted orders, disobeyed direct commands, ignored the heirarchy, and did as he wished, would he even be left in command, let alone gifted with the stewardship of the Chapter? The rest of the Origins section stems from the Captain, so I'd like to see how you deal with him before I comment on the rest of it. He's the lynchpin of all this and, frankly, the weakness in the concept as well. Sunny side of the planet as considerable jungle coverage with the population being concentrated in cities build around huge mines, dark side is a frozen wasteland with a very sparse population concentrated in small town beneath the ice build around small mines (see a pattern?), in the twilight belt there is constant vicious storm that nothing can cross Kind of cool, but wouldn't the sunward side basically boil away all moisture into the atmosphere, where it would freeze and remain on the cooler, darker side? Seems more likely that you'd have deserts, unless someone's doing pretty radical terraforming. HoW recruit from both sides of the planet, those from the dark side tend to end up among the 2nd company veterans That's a little too predictable to me, especially since I'd expect to find really sneaky, conniving bastards living in the cities where they're more likely to have contact with other people rather than out in the frozen wastelands. HoW believe that only though Emperor can there be salvation for the human race. Any human that does not do so, must be made to by any means necessary (mostly terror) Commenting on this is going to dabble dangerously close to a religious debate, but I'm going to attempt it and hope for the best. To my mind, abject terror is not belief. It's horror and a mewling, frightened attempt to get the Big Bad Beard up in the sky to stop killing your family, mutilating your children, and to maybe, if you're very lucky, make sure that the crops don't die this season since you haven't eaten in a week. To attempt the generation of faithful behavior through nothing but threats creates the impression of belief to those enforcing it, but it seems far more likely that what they believe in is the means by which they are being coerced rather than in the entity they're being told to worship. Imagine, if you will, an impoverished farmer on the outskirts of one of the cities. His wife died of a horrible disease, his eldest two sons have died in defense of their farmstead at the claws of these devilishly cunning predators you told us about, and now he and the remaining children must do what they can to see that the crops aren't devoured or fall afoul of a blight, but that means being out there where it's dangerous. A Harbinger notices that they've been skimping on attendance at the Templum and tracks them, unseen, out to their fields and see that this is where they spend their time. Rather than acting directly, he rustles some of the local wildlife and steers its flight into their land, prompting a conflict between the farmers and the beasts. This time, the father dies and the children are taken to a scholam, where the priests tell tham that adequate faith would have protected their father and that they must continue to believe because the Emperor spared them for a reason. Do you really think that the kids are going to decide that their father died because he was a bad man who didn't believe properly, or are they going to think that the priests don't know what they're talking about and only do what they have to in order to get by? The Chapter maintains a more skewed versions of the Promethean cult. They maintain the loyalty and self-reliance bit, but the self sacrifice is view as more of a sacrifice of self. In other words they abandon their ideals to keep the rest of the humanity on the straight and narrow. Does this extend to other Brothers and not merely the humans they stand over? It seems a logical path to follow if they're going to maintain that sacrifice is pointless, though even that's a bit contradictory since it's one of the only open lines of reasoning to follow if they're going to attempt to steer the populace. They believe that by scaring the enemy into submission they can limit collateral damage and casualties. ...or cause a panicked reaction that lead to greater bloodshed, or have no effect at all in the case of Tyranids and the more alien or deranged foes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telveryon Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 Why wouldn't the training cadre interpret this as meaning that they're bring woe to those who stand against the manifest destiny of the human race, that they're to be the instruments of crushing the threats that would destroy the people they shepherd and protect? Only a surface reading of the name with no further thought suggests that it ought to be interpreted as something negative for the Chapter or its charges. Well... This is hardly a critical point, and you're in your interpretation. But I don't see the negative interpretations is shallower then the positive one, particularly given the chapter form which those marines hail. I'm not necessarily sure why this would be the case and, if you want to stay this course, you're going to need to develop the point considerably. It's been established in canon fluff that a number of worlds turned from the Imperium when under duress, bending their collective knees as a way to save their own hides. Given the mastery of torture and deprivation that the Dark Eldar possess and the incredibly disheartening rumors that surround their exploits (real and imagined), there needs to be a good justification for a sustained increase in the faith of the populace. I can all too easily imagine that those under attack might find themselves praying for salvation and reaching out to the Emperor, going by that old saying I've never been too fond of, "There are no atheists in foxholes." However, if their rescue doesn't come or is long in arriving, why wouldn't the people turn their backs? What you say about the Dark Eldar is very true, I would like to point out that the Dark Eldar are the one race that is completely uninterested in territorial gain for any amount of time. To the average imperial citizen their attacks would look much akin to a natural disaster, with no rime or reason. When confronted with such events that are completely outside their control, the first place most humans turn to is religion. Critique on the Captain. I've rewritten this part of the origins a bit, downplaying the Captain's actions in the chapter's eventual shift to a darker path, to certain extent.... Kind of cool, but wouldn't the sunward side basically boil away all moisture into the atmosphere, where it would freeze and remain on the cooler, darker side? Seems more likely that you'd have deserts, unless someone's doing pretty radical terraforming. The way I figure it is that the planet is considerably farther from the sun when compared to most inhabitable words. It probably was very inhospitable to life before it became tidal-locked, think Europa in our own solar system. That's a little too predictable to me, especially since I'd expect to find really sneaky, conniving bastards living in the cities where they're more likely to have contact with other people rather than out in the frozen wastelands. Well... Not all cities are the same. Some are filled with conniving bastards others are are not. But the main reason I see the darksiders to be more prone to ending in the 2nd company is because I see the dark side as something akin to old American West but with allot more ice, and you have to agree with me that there were allot of conniving bastards there at that particular time. Commenting on this is going to dabble dangerously close to a religious debate, but I'm going to attempt it and hope for the best. To my mind, abject terror is not belief. It's horror and a mewling, frightened attempt to get the Big Bad Beard up in the sky to stop killing your family, mutilating your children, and to maybe, if you're very lucky, make sure that the crops don't die this season since you haven't eaten in a week. To attempt the generation of faithful behavior through nothing but threats creates the impression of belief to those enforcing it, but it seems far more likely that what they believe in is the means by which they are being coerced rather than in the entity they're being told to worship. Imagine, if you will, an impoverished farmer on the outskirts of one of the cities. His wife died of a horrible disease, his eldest two sons have died in defense of their farmstead at the claws of these devilishly cunning predators you told us about, and now he and the remaining children must do what they can to see that the crops aren't devoured or fall afoul of a blight, but that means being out there where it's dangerous. A Harbinger notices that they've been skimping on attendance at the Templum and tracks them, unseen, out to their fields and see that this is where they spend their time. Rather than acting directly, he rustles some of the local wildlife and steers its flight into their land, prompting a conflict between the farmers and the beasts. This time, the father dies and the children are taken to a scholam, where the priests tell tham that adequate faith would have protected their father and that they must continue to believe because the Emperor spared them for a reason. Do you really think that the kids are going to decide that their father died because he was a bad man who didn't believe properly, or are they going to think that the priests don't know what they're talking about and only do what they have to in order to get by? The picture you paint isn't exactly as I see the HoW acting. But that's besides the point as I can counter your argument by pointing out that this is the exactly the modus operandi of the Imperium at large. The only difference between the HoW and Imperium is that the HoW have turned it into a battlefield strategy rather then a more political/theological one. Does this extend to other Brothers and not merely the humans they stand over? It seems a logical path to follow if they're going to maintain that sacrifice is pointless, though even that's a bit contradictory since it's one of the only open lines of reasoning to follow if they're going to attempt to steer the populace. You lost me on this one... And how did you come to the conclusion that the HoW see sacrifice as pointless? ...or cause a panicked reaction that lead to greater bloodshed, or have no effect at all in the case of Tyranids and the more alien or deranged foes. There is always that risk... But I've modified the Combat Doctrine a bit, maybe now it will be clearer where I want to go with the whole terror tactics bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Name: Harbingers of Woe (HoW for short) How-now, green HoW? What's new with you? * The HoW try to maintain the religious devotion though good will but fail, eventually the Frateris Templar intervene and restore the region's faith in the Emperor but with considerable collateral damage. Why? After all, good Space Marine Chapters don't follow the Imperial Cult? * The2nd company eventually gets stranded on rebel planet, the Captain of the company, unable to attack any major target on the planet, tries to rekindle the faith in the Emperor the same way the they keep the peace around their own homeworld, but with fewer stops . * After 40 years the HoW return backed up by a conventional Imperial force. They find the planet in opened revolt and have no trouble reconquering it. * The HoW are reunited with their lost brothers, while the main body of the chapter isn't too keen on their brother's actions, the results can't be denied * Aforementioned Captain ends up as the Chapter Master in spite of his unorthodox methods, because of high success rate * The marines that were stranded end up veterans (these guys would have some very good survival instincts) but can't get along with their more traditional brothers. (Let's chalk this misunderstandings to an inclination of the former to terrorize people as well as being quite sneaky) * The former Captain splits the first company in two, the traditional marines remain in the first, while the the unorthodox ones return to the second. The non veteran marines of the second company are split between the two companies to maintain effectiveness. What's the point of all this? * A very old, tidal locked world orbiting a star that is near the end of its main faze. * The planet used to be covered with frozen oceans, but once it became tide locked water levels dropped and the planed was covered with a heavy cloud cover The water over time would all move to the cold side, where it would freeze. Eventually you'd have an ice side and a hot side. * The planet's core is completely cooled off, making it a mining bonanza. Without a spinning core, the planet will be bombarded with interstellar radiation. Or at least, such is my understanding. * Sunny side of the planet has considerable jungle coverage with the population being concentrated in cities build around huge mines, dark side is a frozen wasteland with a very sparse population concentrated in small town beneath the ice build around small mines (see a pattern?), in the twilight belt there is constant vicious storm that nothing can cross Telveryon, I'm sure you remember my good friend Morbo. Morbo? TIDAL LOCKING DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY! Thanks, Morbo. Put it this way - notice how it gets colder at night and hotter during the day? Imagine if the Earth didn't rotate. Yeah... * HoW believe that only though Emperor can there be salvation for the human race. Any human that does not do so, must be made to by any means necessary (mostly terror) Where'd that belief come from? It feels very Imperial Cult. * When being induced as an initiate, novices must assemble their own armor (with the help of Tech Marines). When he dies, he is buried with that armor. (Only Terminator Armor is passed to the Next generation) Dude. That's both incredibly wasteful, incredibly out-of-keeping with how everyone else does it, and incredibly resource-intensive. * * * I'm having a hard time pointing to a central theme, here. That may be intentional, of course. I don't dislike them, but they're not very memorable right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofTerra Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 For the most part I am liking where this is heading. Apart from things that others have said, there is only 1 thing that sticks out to me: "On the tactical level they're as fast and brutal as they can be, preferring to rout the enemy then pursue him rather then wiping him outright" Wouldn't wiping out the opponent be faster than routing them and pursuing in most instances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Hunter Ydalir Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Wouldn't wiping out the opponent be faster than routing them and pursuing in most instances? I agree, the grammar itself doesn't track properly but I understand what he's getting at. They enjoy the act of breaking the enemy, in watching them run and in the sport of pursuing them and running them down. This is also a rather dark side to the chapter and that is always something to be cherished. In the context of making an IA more interesting, at least. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingsOfTheFalcon Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Hey there, Great read, can't wait for you to flesh it out from the bullet points stage. I was wondering about the potential schism caused by the stranded veterans taking leadership of the chapter. For any chain of command to function properly there must be support and belief in the top echelons of command, if not then the whole machine starts to break down. I think there needs to be some expansion upon how the instillation of the new battle tactics is successful when traditional approaches fail. Perhaps have the 2nd company saving the 1st from some potential catastrophe, thus ensuing the support of the chapter and the meteoric rise of the 2nd company captain to chapter master. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telveryon Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 Firstly to answer Octavulg's points Why? After all, good Space Marine Chapters don't follow the Imperial Cult? True, I've made some small alterations to give a reason why. What's the point of all this? To mark the point where the HoW used fear as combat strategy rather then a geopolitical one and also to set up the rivalry between the 1st and 2nd companies that I forgot to add. The water over time would all move to the cold side, where it would freeze. Eventually you'd have an ice side and a hot side. That's probably very true, but I'll hide behind the flimsy explanation that the humidity stays on the sunny side because of the continuous storm in the twilight region Without a spinning core, the planet will be bombarded with interstellar radiation. Or at least, such is my understanding. That's also true, that's why the cities on the sunny side are now domed. Telveryon, I'm sure you remember my good friend Morbo. Morbo? Actually I'm ashamed to say that no, I don't remember Morbo. But that shouldn't be a surprise or insult to Morbo as I'm quite prone to forget what I'm doing with a hot plate of soup in front of me and a spoon in my hand... TIDAL LOCKING DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY! Thanks, Morbo. Put it this way - notice how it gets colder at night and hotter during the day? Imagine if the Earth didn't rotate. Yeah... The sunny side would get hotter and hotter while the dark side would get colder and colder, true. But now please imagine a tidal locked planet that quite far from its sun (say as far as Jupiter or maybe event Saturn) now add to that the fact that the sunny side 70%-90% cloud cover and you have a good reason why the sunny side isn't an uninhabitable desert but rather a jungle. Where'd that belief come from? It feels very Imperial Cult. I've modified a bit this part to give somewhat of a reason. Dude. That's both incredibly wasteful, incredibly out-of-keeping with how everyone else does it, and incredibly resource-intensive. We're talking about a chapter of master smiths sitting on a mining bonanza, it's wasteful, true, but they have the means to keep it up. It's not like chapters don't have traditions that are wasteful, like the Gray Knights with their extremely hard to produce Aegis Armor who do the exact same thing. I'm having a hard time pointing to a central theme, here. That may be intentional, of course. I don't dislike them, but they're not very memorable right now. The gist should be terror tactics using Salamanders, well intentioned but in a twisted way (as in keep casualties low by scarring everyone half to death). I agree, the grammar itself doesn't track properly but I understand what he's getting at. They enjoy the act of breaking the enemy, in watching them run and in the sport of pursuing them and running them down. This is also a rather dark side to the chapter and that is always something to be cherished. In the context of making an IA more interesting, at least. ;) This is one reason why they do it (actually, that's the main reason the 2nd company does it). The second would be that a fleeing enemy is usually scattered and unorganized. What the HoW try to achieve is to have several smaller battles where the individual superiority of a space marine counts for more and collateral damaged is more limited, instead of a large protracted battle. Hey there, Great read, can't wait for you to flesh it out from the bullet points stage. I was wondering about the potential schism caused by the stranded veterans taking leadership of the chapter. For any chain of command to function properly there must be support and belief in the top echelons of command, if not then the whole machine starts to break down. I think there needs to be some expansion upon how the instillation of the new battle tactics is successful when traditional approaches fail. Perhaps have the 2nd company saving the 1st from some potential catastrophe, thus ensuing the support of the chapter and the meteoric rise of the 2nd company captain to chapter master. Actually, I'm not a particular fan of the "were changing out tactics because they didn't work once" idea. It want their change in methodology to come from the change of the chapter's views rather then tactical necessity. Also I wouldn't call what happened to the chapter a schism, more like a divergence on views on how far the chapter should go in pursuit of its goals. They don't hate each other, they just don't have the same opinion on some issues. I've also added a bit expanding the idea a bit but I'll probably explore it more in the full writeup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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