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Sanguinary Guard Analysis


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49 replies to this topic

#1
SnorriSnorrison

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Congratulations if you’ve read so far, you are either a determined and interested reader or you have too much spare time. :P
Just kidding, but I appreciate that you’ve read it at all.

So, when summarising the Sanguinary Guard, it is best described as a scalpel that’s plunged into salt acid – the units it can be hurled against have to be chosen with wisdom as it is not a sledgehammer, but every cut will hurt like a thousand needles, open a breach in the enemy’s defences, and probably remove that unit from play. :)
Watch out for template weapons; eliminate them before they happen to hit you in the open.
Play aggressively as it suits the Primarch and the Legion, and fear not the thought of failure, the SG can stand against more than one might think.
Eventually, I am not the oldest veteran, there are a lot of older and wiser guys than me, and the whole article is based on my experiences with this unit and is not the guideline for anything or anyone.
I just hope the article helps, especially those who hesitate to give these guys a shot.

Well, thanks for the read again, good luck with the Sanguinary Guard in a game.

Snorri

#2
Kurb

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Great read!

#3
SnorriSnorrison

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Great read!


Thanks! :P

Snorri

#4
captain Mungo

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Awesome writeup, Snorri! :P

I can elaborate on the use of plasma pistols for a bit with something Ive come to realize:

Since the plasma pistol's only strength compared to the inferno pistol is it's 12" range, the question is what this really offers. The only situation that the inferno pistol can't do better is when your shooting at something 6-12" away. As you point out as well in your analysis the SG want to choose it's target and want to hit first and hit hard, but by standing within 12" but further away than 6" you'd be giving away the charge to get that shot. So the only strength it has really isn't much of a strength. The higher strength and AP of the inferno pistol are also not just a small increase in number but gives two large bonus rules in T4 instant death and +1 on vehicle damage result.

To summarize in my opinion it is never worth taking a plasma pistol over an inferno pistol, unless for looks or allocation shenanigans. My 2 cents to your $100 bill :)

Edited by captain Mungo, 14 January 2011 - 04:14 PM.


#5
Malatox

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Amazing! :P
It's totally helped me in choosing a role for my Sanguinary Guard :)... I loved the article man!
Malatox

Edited by JamesI, 13 December 2011 - 11:35 AM.

Battle record 6th Edition
Death Guard (Disciples of Decay)
Wins- 1
Losses- 0
Draws- 0

Blood Angels (The Blooded Brethren)
Wins- 3
Losses- 1
Draws- 0


#6
SnorriSnorrison

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Awesome writeup, Snorri! :P

I can elaborate on the use of plasma pistols for a bit with something Ive come to realize:

Since the plasma pistol's only strength compared to the inferno pistol is it's 12" range, the question is what this really offers. The only situation that the inferno pistol can't do better is when your shooting at something 6-12" away. As you point out as well in your analysis the SG want to choose it's target and want to hit first and hit hard, but by standing within 12" but further away than 6" you'd also be giving away the charge to the opponent. So the only strength it has really isn't much of a strength. The higher strength and AP of the inferno pistol are also not just a small increase in number but gives two large bonus rules in T4 instant death and +1 on vehicle damage result.

To summarize in my opinion it is never worth taking a plasma pistol over an inferno pistol, unless for looks or allocation shenanigans. My 2 cents to your $100 bill :)


Hey man, thanks! Glad you liked it! :tu:

I see your point indeed. Some players consider it useful to have a 12" weapon on board, especially after an unlucky deepstrike so they can cause *some* damage. I do not really favour the PP either. :)
Thanks for your input again!


Snorri

#7
Till

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Wonderful post. Thanks so much for writing this up. It didnt really change my stance on SG, but I love that someone put the time into showing their views.

#8
SnorriSnorrison

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Thanks guys, I'm very glad that you liked it. I hope that this will find a place in the BA Ressource Project.

Malatox -

golly! Amazing! :tu:
It's totally helped me in choosing a role for my Sanguinary Guard :)... I loved the article man!


I can't explain how this cheers me up - this was the intention behind the article and I'm so happy that you've found it useful. Thanks, man. :)


Snorri

#9
Malatox

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I'm glad it did :tu:, that's why I posted and didn't lurk in the shadows rubbing my hands together :)
I'm sure I'm one of the many helped/will be helped by this article, I'm just glad I was one of the first to voice it :L
Malatox

Battle record 6th Edition
Death Guard (Disciples of Decay)
Wins- 1
Losses- 0
Draws- 0

Blood Angels (The Blooded Brethren)
Wins- 3
Losses- 1
Draws- 0


#10
Plague Angel

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Great read indeed, Snorri. It's great to see this and it has me itching to field Sanguard for the first time.

One thing that comes to mind: you and others have convinced me not to take power fists on these guys. But under certain conditions — for example, if my Honor Guard already has the banner, or if I already have all my melta-bases covred — death masks start looking a tad more viable. I realize Ld-tests aren't too much of a concern for most armies, but if the masks are the only upgrade you're giving to the squad and you can spare the points, I think they should be considered. On a surgical unit like this, the comparison between two infernus pistols or death masks for +5 points isn't that great. So while I think the unit can get expensive, fast, taking death masks and no other upgrades doesn't seem too outrageous to me. I will try that out soon and let you know how it goes.

Of course, if you're taking Dante, then I agree it's not worth it since he comes with his own already.

#11
DrummingBerserker21

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Wonderfully written Snorri, I've been contemplating using SG for a while now, and this might have pushed me into giving them a go! Thanks for the help!

#12
Black Blow Fly

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Excellent article. I love the presentation.

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#13
Code 187

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Really enjoyed this article Snorri. I've never used SG before and wasn't a fan at all. I intended to buy a box or 2 and kitbash them into my VV. This has seriously swayed me towards using them.
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#14
Midnightmare

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As everyone else has said, excellent article Snorri :unsure: Really well presented too! I haven't used the SG either but you have certainly sold them to me. I think just a base squad with the banner me thinks, running with a priest in tow.
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#15
Kanis

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This was a superb piece to read. I find this is extremely beneificial for new or exploring Angel players to read on to get a better perspective on this great unit. As for me, I find this insight really useful and has given me many more ideas on how to use my golden boys. Thanks for the time and effort put into this, it's extremely rare to see such format and thought put into articles and this is a great example of what 40K pieces should resemble.

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#16
SnorriSnorrison

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Thanks again, guys. I'm just so glad that all the work was worth it and is of value for you. :D

Plague Angel:
Yes, you have a point indeed regarding the Deathmasks. On the other hand, your SG won't be as choppy because the banner is in the Honour Guard...mh...that opens even more tactical flexibility as the SG won't be the primary target and can probably seek and destroy without being shot at all the time.
Thanks, I will update the article in a few days and complement the input given by the brothers.


Snorri

#17
Brother Captain Kezef

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I'm running a 2k SG list.

4 SG squads, 2 Gunships, Libby dread, Talon furioso and a priest. Based on my experience I agree with most of the post. Only PF in my army is in the SG squad that goes with dante, it's a back-up in case the unthinkable happens and i run into summat i need S8 against.

Only thing i disagree with is the PP issue. I have one in each squad aswell as an Inferno. In my experience you just can't dictate everything and it helps to have a shot or two at 12 with AP2 just to cover every base.

However in a normal army where you have only 1 SG squad or 2 then PP's are a waste as you'll have more flexibility in the rest of your force.

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#18
ancient god

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Great stuff Snorri, thanks for doing this. :whistlingW:

I'm painting my SG some time soon and this will definitely help them stay alive on the board.

#19
BigBaals

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I vote for a sticky on this one! I see at least one post a week about this exact topic. "Are Sanguinary Guard worth it.." If I see that topic one more time I'm going to scream!

Next we need a Vanguard, Honor Guard, and Stormraven article of the same high quality! "What the best build for Vanguard/Honor Guard?!" "How do you use the Stormraven!?" (Or just links to Black Orange's blog!)

You know I'm right!

Great job Snorri, totally awesome write up. All of my SG needs are met, I am fulfilled.

Edited by BigBaals, 15 January 2011 - 09:51 PM.


#20
ancient god

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I vote for a sticky on this one! I see at least one post a week about this exact topic. "Are Sanguinary Guard worth it.." If I see that topic one more time I'm going to scream!

Next we need a Vanguard, Honor Guard, and Stormraven article of the same high quality! "What the best build for Vanguard/Honor Guard?!" "How do you use the Stormraven!?" (Or just links to Black Orange's blog!)

You know I'm right!

Great job Snorri, totally awesome write up. All of my SG needs are met, I am fulfilled.


Seconded!

#21
Wysten

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I am curious how inferious pistols do not help in melee, while it does not have an effect on the melee directly, two armour ignoring shots before a charge may well kill something and weaken the squad before they are directly engaged. It may be minor compared to the damage they do in melee, but instant deathing or wounding tough squad can help ensure there is less to hit them back in the resulting battle.

Taking an inferious pistol for the cost of a melta bomb also allows it to break open transports when it needs to, at times where the supporting elements may be incapable of doing so themselves. 5th Edition is the era of the transport, hence any additional methods will help them get tangled into the unit of their chosing.

Of course, as with all upgrades, building the list and looking back to see whether these upgrades will be fesiable is all good and well. Just these pistols do help the Sanguard much more then say a power fist would. Your exchanging something it's alright at (shooting before a charge the bolters are good, but thats not why you take Sanguard. Bolters are spread throughout all marine lists) and making it better so it can do it's job (Cracking a transport so it can cook and eat it's own dinner, weakening a squad before exposure to the blades)


All things said though, that was a fantastic arcticle! I really enjoyed reading it.

#22
Chaplain Gunzhard

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Great article... I've been running a mix force of JP and mech using a squad of SG (vanilla with banner), Dante, a Librarian and SP. The rest my list is typically 2 JP RAS (2 flamers, 2 meltas - Dante runs with these guys) and some squads in transports, Libby, SP and the rest changes quite a bit.

Does anyone have experience running 2 squads of SG? ...keeping in mind that my first squad is vanilla armament with banner and Dante is on the table; what would you guys recommend as a best second unit of SG?

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#23
Malleuss

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Great article, man! Very helpful and insightful.

My only point of contention is Unleashed Rage. It grants Preferred Enemy to the unit. Not on the charge but every round of combat (so long as you pass a Psychic Test). The percentages there are a TON better than a Chaplain.

Also, if you happen to get charged by something (shame on you) you still get your rerolls. I am a fan of Unleashed Rage :evil:

Edit: Needs a sticky!

Edited by Malleuss, 16 January 2011 - 05:01 PM.


#24
ancient god

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Great article, man! Very helpful and insightful.

My only point of contention is Unleashed Rage. It grants Preferred Enemy to the unit. Not on the charge but every round of combat (so long as you pass a Psychic Test). The percentages there are a TON better than a Chaplain.

Also, if you happen to get charged by something (shame on you) you still get your rerolls. I am a fan of Unleashed Rage ;)

Edit: Needs a sticky!


This is still mitigated by the SG having one built-in reroll each turn, no matter who's the attacker.

But you're right in saying that Unleash Rage is superior to Litanies, barring the fact that Litanies always works, whereas Rage must be cast and can be blocked.

#25
shan vener

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I vote for a sticky on this one! I see at least one post a week about this exact topic. "Are Sanguinary Guard worth it.." If I see that topic one more time I'm going to scream!

Next we need a Vanguard, Honor Guard, and Stormraven article of the same high quality! "What the best build for Vanguard/Honor Guard?!" "How do you use the Stormraven!?" (Or just links to Black Orange's blog!)

You know I'm right!

Great job Snorri, totally awesome write up. All of my SG needs are met, I am fulfilled.


Seconded!


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