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[Ishida]

THE GREY GHOSTS

Brother-Captain Phillipe du Kwan,
1^stBrotherhood Field Commander

Known and feared throughout the Imperium for their highly mobile way of war, the Space Marines of the Grey Ghosts Chapter are the masters of "hit-and-run" method of attack, able to tear into their foes and vanish before they can respond. Unlike their primogenitors, the White Scars, the Grey Ghosts prefer to operate not in the open field but in the concrete jungles of the Imperium's hive-worlds and xenos urban centers. Fierce warriors, though of noble birth and regal bearing, they fight with the savage ferocity of their Primarch and bring swift death to all enemies of the Imperium.

Revision: v. 1.8 Minor edits for clarity, grammar, and so forth.
Revision: v. 1.7 Gene-Seed flaw added, trying to expand info on the Marines themselves.
Revision: v. 1.5 Several sections reorganized, added bit of history with the Blood Angels; Continued purge of Typo Daemons.
Revision: v. 1.3 "Origins" section much shorter than original draft. "Battle Cry" section added.
Revision: v. 1.2 "Beliefs" section added; "Scouts" entry revised; A few minor typo and tiny fixes.

Founding chapter: White Scars
Founding: Seventh Founding
Chapter Master ("Duc"): Duc Claude du Khan
Homeworld: Perdu III
Fortress-Monastery: Lune Fantôme ("Ghost Moon")
Main colours: Dark Grey Armor, White Tirm, with distinct Bone White Left Arm
Specialty: Urban Warfare, Fast Attack
Battle Cry: "We come. We conquer."
Estimated strength: ~600 Battle-Brothers, as of 999.M41

Origins

The history of the Grey Ghosts begins with their primogentors, the White Scars and their Primarch, Jaghatai Khan, one of the greatest military strategists of all time. The people of the Grey Ghosts' homeworld have created copious and often wildly exaggerated records of the Primarch's exploits.

During the Great Crusade, the Primarch was given command of the Fifth Legion, which renamed themselves the White Scars. The White Scars went on to fight in some of the bloodiest battles of the Great Crusade and the lightning fast style of Jaghatai Khan would prove equally effective on the countless battlefields on countless worlds. One of the many worlds that the White Scars conquered for the Emperor was a long-forgotten hiveworld named Perdu III.

Combat Doctrine

The Grey Ghosts favor the close combat of urban warfare and excel in such environments. Although the lighting warfare of their Battle Companies may seem reckless in such built up enviroments this is not the case as they have eyes and ears few notice.

The Grey Ghosts Chapter is organized slightly differently than even their primogentors, the White Scars, although the Grey Ghosts do have higher proportion of Bike Squads and Land Speeder squadrons than many Chapters, they do not quite rise to the level of the White Scars. The Grey Ghosts specialization in urban comaby encourages the use of man-portable heavy weapons over armored vehicles and as a result, unlike the White Scars, the Grey Ghosts do deploy Devastator squads. Due to the urban and hive enviroments, their Assault Squads make limited use of jump-packs or drop pods, instead these specialist Marines almost always deploy mounted on Bikes.

Dreadnoughts, as known to other chapters, are not employed by the Grey Ghosts, as the cold, metal sarcophagi of these mighty constructions evokes a horror of eternal confinement that goes against the shamanist philosophy, inherited from the White Scars, that when a warrior dies, his soul should be free to travel to the afterlife. The chapter has developed similar weapons of war, named Chevaliers, which are piloted by a living member of the veteran First Brotherhood.

The Grey Ghosts differ most notably from the Codex Astartes in the overall organization of their Chapter, although they adhere to most of its tennents when in battle. The Grey Ghosts are organized into seven Brotherhoods rather than ten Companies; the Chapter's equivalent to the Codex Astartes' four Battle Companies are its Second, Third, and Fourth Brotherhoods. These three Brotherhoods, at full strength, consists of ten squads of Battle-Brothers and has attached directly to it a further ten squads of neophyte Scouts. This close intigration of the Scouts is thought by the Chapter to have several benefits. The Battle Brotherhood's Captain has direct command and control over the Scouts, a company strong in number and always available wherever his Brotherhood may find itself. The Scouts are able to gain much from their closer relationship with the experinced battle brothers. Given the Chapter's specialization in urban warfare, having a large constingent of highly mobile and dedicated scout is seen as a great force multiplier. Generally, the scouts role is to range ahead of the main Space Marine force, preparing the way for the main advance by infiltrating enemy lines, sabotaging and gathering intelligence - causing as much chaos and disruption as possible. When circumstances warrant, the Scouts will be utilized in much the same way as a Tactical Squad, lighter armor and less specialized anti-tank weaponry being less of a liability in the built up hives and compact xenos metropollii of the 41st Millennium.

The Grey Ghosts' geneseed has experienced some degree of instability over the millennia. The Progenoid implants have an alarmingly high "failure-to-mature" rate, whereas most Astartes will have two of these glands growing each of the the germ cells needed to create future Space Marines, an unexplained flaw in the Grey Ghosts' gene-seed causes only a single Progenoid to mature in nearly 2/3 of its recruits. The chapter's Apothecarion and Adeptus Mechanicus continue to monitor the health of the Grey Ghosts, but the High Lords of Terra are satisifed that this flaw appears stable. This genetic flaw does greatly limit the rate at which the Grey Ghosts can replace their combat losses or recruit new brothers.

History

Perdu III

The third planet of six in its system, Perdu III is a hive world in the Segmentum Tempestus, located not far beyond the bounds of the Segmentum Solar, however the world had been cutoff from Holy Terra for several centuries due to oddly localized warp storms until the coming of the Great Crusade. Once a major producer of warpships and small craft for the Navis Nobilite, Perdu's forges had transitioned to producing local spacecraft and conventional weapons of war during their isolation. Today, Perdu's forges produce boltguns, bolts, lascannons, and other weapons for the Adeptus Astartes; Likewise, its shipyards produce craft exclusivly for the Adeptus Astartes of dozens of Chapters.

Perdu was founded thousands of years ago, during the early years of M23, as a mining and manufacturing colony intended to service the Navis Nobilite. The ensuing millennia have not changed its basic purpose very much; Perdu is still a world of mines, factories, refineries and processing plants. The planet is a vast powerhouse of industry, making thousands and thousands of different items for use throughout nearby planetary systems.

Nothing which can contribute to the planet's output has been left untouched. From the tops of the highest mountains to the depths of the oceans, the wealth of Perdu has been ripped out. Mountains have been reduced to rubble for the ore they contain; oceans have been turned into little more than chemical sludge ponds. The once fertile plains have disappeared under huge urban developments of great housing and factory blocks, forming new ranges of man-made mountains every bit as tall as the long since flattened natural land features. These huge towering urban complexes are known as hive-cities, or simply as hives, and their individual peaks or towers are called city-spires, ivory towers, or spires. A close group of hives is known as a hive-kingdom, there are thirteen such hive-kingdoms scattered about the surface of Perdu. Between the hive-kingdoms deserts of industrial ash cover the surface of the planet with a mobile, corrosive skin. Over this desert lies a cloud layer of airborne pollution, so that the great spires of the city hives rise from a drifting mist of tainted vapour like islands out of the sea.

Despite being reduced to such a hellish state, Perdu is still a valuable world to the Imperium. Although little of Perdu's original resources remain, the waste-heaps of previous generations have become a new source of riches. Perdu lives on the accumulated wastes of its past: its people have learned to scavenge, reclaim and recycle everything in order to squeeze a living from their exhausted world. The other planets in Perdu's system and neighboring stars are all mining worlds or agriworlds that serve no purpose beyond feeding Perdu's factories and laborers. The ancient shipyards, once the pride of the Navis Nobilite, have become some of the greatest salvage yards in the sector... capabable of stripping the remains of enitre battlefleets and rebuilding new vessels from the corpses of the old.

Perdu's population has increased well beyond the planet's capacity to support it. As a consequence it is wholly reliant on synthetic and imported food. Each hive has its recycling plants which convert used organic matter into synthetic food. Real food is imported from off-planet, but is an expensive luxury which only the most wealthy and prestigious of Perdu's aristocracy can afford. There are probably more people on Perdu than have ever lived in the entire history of Terra up until the end of the twentieth century. An attempted census of Hive Quan Primus four thousand years ago revealed an estimated population of a billion in the upper habitation levels alone - no further attempt has been made to count Perdu's population in Quan or any other of the several thousand hives on the planet.

The planet's current capital is Hive Quan Primus, one of the many hive cities that makes up the Kingdom of Quan. The hive, the largest on Perdu, is enormous in size, reaching from the surface to some 13 miles into the air, and from surface level to roughly 3.8 miles into the ground (although only the first 1.4 miles are habitable by humans), and possesses a population greater than some worlds.

Hive Quan Primus, and the Kingdom of Quan as a whole, is ruled over by King Louis-Phillipe of House Quan. The many Great Houses of the kingdom are in a constant struggle to gain power and control of the Hive Kingdom, just as the thirteen kingdoms are in a constant struggle to gain power and control of the planet.

The Grey Ghosts draw their recruits only from the upper echelons of Perdu III's society, the neo-feudal warrior caste that has more in common with the knights and cavaliers of medival worlds than the pampered industrial barrons of most hive-worlds. The Grey Ghosts see still themselves as part of the people of their homeworld, the noblesse oblige of their previous life extended to that of the whole Imperium.

"The duty of a nobleman is, first and foremost, to protect his people.
The duty of an Astartes is always, first and foremost, to protect Humanity.
I see no conflict, nor any distinction, between these duties."
-Scout Sergeant Etienne du Kwan, 2nd Brotherhood, to unnammed Space Wolf Sergeant

Homeworld Society

The society of Perdu is reasonably typical of larger Hive Worlds. No attempt is made to enforce central administration upon the entire population; indeed such a thing would prove impossible on a world where most people remain unrecorded by any authority. Instead, a kind of feudal system has evolved by which individual people owe loyalty to others, who in their turn owe their loyalty to other increasingly more powerful members of the hierarchy. Among the more stable elements of the population these loyalties are owed on a family basis, and closely related families all support each other under the hegemony of the most powerful member of their family group.

This form of urban feudalism tends to be self-regulating. Weaker houses and clans naturally seek the protection of more powerful neighbors whose powerbase then expands until it reaches the limit whereby its numbers and resources are simply too few to allow it to expand further. Where rival clans meet it is inevitable that their power will be tested in combat; the ability of a clan to exert its power being the only true measure of its influence. The endless feuds between the warriors of these clans are a fundamental part of the workings of Perdu.

When the warp storms which had cut Perdu off from the greater galaxy finally lifted, the world almost immediately came under attack by the forces of the Greenskins of Waaagh Hulka. On the thirteenth day of the thirteenth month of the Ork's invasion, Jaghatai Khan and the White Scars Legion descended from the heavens. As the Greenskin Horde plunged from the heavens in the twilight hours, smashing into the central Hive City of Lyonne Primus (the then capital), the true power of a Primarch of the Adeptus Astartes was unleashed for all to see. In the massacre that followed the the Great Khan personally slaughtered over 200 Orks, 100 to the left, 100 to the right, and then in personal combat with the mighty Warboss Bloody Hulk, struck him down with thirteen blows in violent orgy of destruction. Yet the people of Perdu did not shy away from these Angels of Death, instead the embraced their saviors and were eager to return to the light of the Emperor. They embraced these warriors who saved their world. In time their culture changed, with each of Perdu's aristocratic Houses adopting the name of one of the Great Khan's warriors are their new surname, and thirteen thousand of Perdu's sons volunteered for consideration as Space Marine recruits. The Speculum Historiale does not record the names of any who were chosen for this honor, but the people of Perdu have built many shrines and erected countless statues of the thirteen men who eventually ascended to the ranks of the Astartes. The people of Perdu spent hundreds of years idolizing and venerating Jaghatai Khan and the White Scars Legion prior to the founding of the Grey Ghosts, this influence on their culture can be seen in many ways: artistocratic families have adopted Chogrisian names, the number "thirteen" is seen as an omen of good fortune, underhive gangs often bear long, tribal facial scars, and the artistocratic warrior-class of the spires frewuently duel from the backs of motorbikes.

The Horus Heresy and Great Foundings

The White Scars Legion, and these unnamed sons of Perdu, went on to fight in some of the bloodiest battles of the Horus Heresy. The Second Founding of Space Marine Chapters, occurred not long after the Horus Heresy, in 021.M31. This division of the existing Space Marine Legions into the smaller, autonomous Chapters into which the Space Marines are now organized. The Fifth Legion was divided into five Chapters, the White Scars, Destroyers, Marauders, Rampages, and Storm Lords. There were many subsequent Foundings, the details of many lost to time or declared secrets to all but the highest of authorities of the Imperium, or known only to the Emperor himself. The gene-seed of the White Scars was used in M33 in the Seventh Founding, creating the Grey Ghosts. This chapter was given Perdu as their homeworld.

Gargoyles

To gather information within the great hives the first Techmarines of the Chapter created thousands of cyborg 'gargoyles' to be the 'eyes and ears' of the chapter, using a variant of cyber-cherub archaeotech. The gargoyles have stealth abilities and many of Perdu's hivers who claim to have seen them say they only noticed when the 'borg blinked it's flame red eyes before vanishing into thin air. It is taken as a warning, and due to their evasive nature hivers call them 'stone ghosts'. It is a popular superstition that the stone-ghosts work for the chapter and watch for sinners. However, there are stories where the stone-ghosts have helped loyal citizens to escape the nastier elements of the hive gangs. Many times a lost traveler has saw a glimpse of a 'beckoning spirit' - but blink: and it is gone. Yet later they learn they narrowly escaped a clutches of rampaging gang. The Techmarines and senior commanders of the Chapter will seed their areas of operation with gargoyles well in advance of their forces, using the stealthy servitors as probes, scuttling through offworld hives, alien jungles, or empty space hulks.

Organisation

The Four Chamberlains

The Chapter's Armoury, Librarium, Apothecarion, and Administratum are all considered to exist outside the seven standard Brotherhoods, and are collectivly known as the Chambers. The Master of each Chamber, or Chamberlain, is a veteran with a long history of service and is counted as an equal to the Captains of any Brotherhood. However, the duties and responsibilities of each require that they stand apart, and answer only to the Chapter Master. As the direct governors of the planet of Perdu, controllers of its many manufactories, shipyards, and with the need to exercise control over the dozen of so planets that feed its factories, as well as managing the complex web of contracts, debts, and oaths with the Navis Nobilite, Rogue Trader Houses, Imperial Navy, and the other Chapters of the Astartes with home Perdu trades, the early Chapter Masters of the Grey Ghosts created a Master of the Yards, a veteran captain skilled in logistics and diplomacy who heads the Chamber Administratum. This position is one regarded as a reluctant honor, it is vital for the continued honor and success of the chapter, but trades battlefield glory for diplomacy and management. Chamberlain Gaius du Chang has held the post for the last two centuries.

The predominant organizational unit amongst the hive-kingdoms of Perdu III is the clan or house, and a measure of this is true of the Chapter itself. Fierce rivalries, blood-feuds and internecine warfare are a way of life for the young men of the noble houses and help to prepare them for when they must fight to prove their worth to the Chapter`s Chaplains in the grand tournaments. However, once a warrior has been chosen to join the Grey Ghosts, his allegiance to kingdom and clan is replaced with loyalty to the Chapter. Warriors from different kingdoms are therefore mixed with one another in squads to break up individual loyalties. Squads are then organized into Brotherhoods, units which are roughly equivalent in size to a Codex battle company as well as a Codex scout company, though on average battlefield losses amongst the squads mean the Brotherhoods are usually slightly below full strength.

Beliefs

Although the chapter recruits only from the feudal aristocracy of Perdu III, the harsh life in the hive-kingdoms breeds hardy people with strong martial values and hard-working natures. Discipline, self-reliance, and honor are seen as cardinal virtues, sloth, codependency, and dishonesty are the greatest sins.The children of Perdu are taught these values from the earliest age. These are reinforced during the training as a squire that almost all warriors endure and, by the time squire is considered a warrior, they are amongst the most disciplined human fighters in the sector. The people of Perdu are taught to respect the might of the Imperium and that to strive in its name is the highest form of service a person can render to the Emperor. As such, those warriors of Perdu who are not recruited by the chapter often join the Imperial Navy, Rogue Trader Houses, or the Adeptus Arbites. Many have become minor heroes, respected throughout the segmentum.

The Ecclesiarchy and the Grey Ghosts have a stable but distant relationship, as is typical of most Chapters of the Astartes the Grey Ghosts do not adhere to the Imperial Cult of the Ecclesiarchs. However, the Chapter long ago recognized the importance of religion in keeping some sembalance of order in the depths of the hives. The Chapter allows the Adeptus Ministorum to minister and evangelize in the lower and midlevels of the hive-cities, but the aristocracy dwelling in the ivory towers practices a faith much closer to that of their Astartes lords.

The Grey Ghosts hold true to the vision of Jaghatai Khan in the ultimate unification of Humanity. They venerate the Emperor as the Ultimate Uniter and as the penultimate feudal lord, but not as a deity. The Chaplains teach their brother-marines and the rulers of Perdu III, that it is a warrior's highest duty to destroy the enemies of the Emperor. To prepare the galaxy for the day when the Emperor will rise from the Golden Throne to begin the next Great Crusade to unify the galaxy.

Notable Historic and Recent Events

Gaston du Qin,
3^rdBrotherhood Scout

The Howling of the Blood (401.M34)
A strikeforce of Black Templar Space Marines kill the Cacodominus, a powerful alien psyker; the resultant psychic death-scream burns out the minds of a billion astropaths and disrupts the Astronomican, in an event historians would come to name "The Howling." Millions of ships are lost and entire sub-sectors lose contact with the wider Imperium. Elements of the Grey Ghosts' First and Second Brotherhoods were en route to a battlezone in the Ultima Segmentum as part of a greater crusade when the crusade fleet was trapped by powerful warp storms. As a the Grey Ghosts were still a very young chapter, they were embarked aboard the battlebarge of fellow Seventh Founding chapter, the Knights of Blood. During the long months trapped aboard the battle barge, many of the Knights of Blood fell to the Black Rage. Most of the details of this incident remain closely held secrets of the chapter's upper echelons. However, the Grey Ghosts have been reluctant to work with the Blood Angels or any of their successors ever since.

Shadow of the Colossus (028.M38)
Several fleets carrying intelligent telepathic centauroid creatures appear through the Tempestus and Ultima Segmentae. They claim to be denizens of Colossus fleeing enslavement and try to settle inside the borders of the Imperium. After being declared xenos horribilis in the early 39th millennium, they are completely wiped out. The Grey Ghosts destroy twelve of the alien vessels. In the late 41st millennium it is concluded that they were fleeing the Tyranids.

Creation of the Gargoyles Chapter (738.M41)
During the latest Great Founding of the Astartes, the 26th Founding, the High Lords of Terra elect to use the gene-seed of the Grey Ghosts for the creation of a new Chapter. Dubbed the Gargoyles, the new chapter is assigned garrisson duty in the Gothic Sector, which is still recovering from the Gothic War and 12th Black Crusade. Chief Librarian Antionne Hu and fifty Battle-Brothers from the First Brotherhood are honored with positions of leadership in the newborn Chapter.

The Badab War (901.M41-912.M41)
The Grey Ghosts were not involved in this conflict, as most of the Chapter's First and Second Brotherhood were occupied in the pacfication of Waaagh Hulka! (This incident marking the fourteenth recorded Waaagh led this persistent and ancient Ork Clan, which appears to be "native" to Perdu's neighboring star system.) However after the war, the shipyards of Perdu III were used by the Imperial Navy for the dismantling of much of Battlefleet Karthargo, which had seen almost all of its ships destroyed or lost during the war.

Third Armageddon War (998.M41)
The Third War for Armageddon began in 998.M41, during which of three Brotherhoods of the White Scars were deployed into the freezing wastes of Armageddon known as the Deadlands. At the request of Jubal Khan, the current Chapter Master of the White Scars, the Grey Ghost's Third Brotherhood was assigned to the White Scars sector, and were insturmental in capturing and holding the few urban centers in the Deadlands, allowing the White Scars to concentrate on moving their lines forward, leaving the Ghosts to hold their rear.

Thirteenth Black Crusade (999.M41)
The Warmaster Abaddon launches his 13th Black Crusade. The armies of Chaos Undivided lay siege primarily to Cadia, but attack many of the surrounding worlds as well. Imperial Forces launch a massive counterattack, in the largest mobilisation of both Imperial and Chaos forces seen since the Horus Heresy. The Imperium eventually pushes back the tides of Chaos, but only just barely, and at great cost. For first and only time since their founding, the Grey Ghosts left their homeworld unguarded, sending the entire First, Second, Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth Brotherhoods to the warzone. (The Third Brotherhood was still busy on Armageddon.) The Chapter sustained heavy losses, and is estimated to have between 500 to 600 Battle-Brothers, of which, up to half may still be Neophyte Scouts.

Battle Cry

"We come. We conquer." Shouted when charging the enemy, also used as a call-and-response by Chaplains during planetfall, or queitly sworn as an oath from the shadows. Veteran scout sergeants often sumarize missions for new recruits as "We go anywhere. We see everything. We conquer all."

Edited by Ishida, 17 February 2011 - 05:28 PM.

[Aegnor]

Will read the whole thing later, but just wanted to say that Grey Ghosts was the original name i had for my DIY chapter (currently the Vigilant Falcons) and over the past day I've been debating changing back to that original name!

[NightrawenII]

Welcome in the Liber. Now...

Origins
The Apocrypha of Skaros speaks of the White Scars only rarely and even the text is coloured by the fact that much of what is said comes from the White Scars themselves. The Apocrypha of Davio names the five Second Founding Chapters that were drawn from the White Scars Legion, but again, their histories and legends are little detailed.
- If you say so...

Origins & History & Homeworld Society & The Horus Heresy and Great Foundings
Ahem, now don't get me wrong, I really apreaciate your effort and work you put into your IA, but these sections you have here are practically description and history of Perdu III and history and deeds of Jaghatain Khan and 5th Legion. There is nothing wrong with this... just the article is named Grey Ghosts and the Chapter itself is not mentioned until the end of the The Horus Heresy and Great Foundings section, after aprox. 1808 words. Thus my reaction is: .

Combat Doctrine
- A minor comment, why is the Armoury, Librarium and Administratum under Veterans header? Btw, why is this pic in the combat doctrine section? And where we are at it, where are the combat doctrines?

The Grey Ghosts differ radically from the Codex Astartes in the overall organization of their Chapter
- Explanation needed.

The Brotherhood's Captain had direct command and control over them, without having to work with a seperate "Tenth Company;"
*sigh*
- 10th Company doesn't exist. It is matter of organisation(edit: or rather administrative), not the control nor command.

The Scouts are able to gain a depth frontline experince from their closer interaction with the Chapter's rank-and-file battle brothers
- Except, "The scouts role is to range ahead of the main Space Marine force, preparing the way for the main advance". They either fight at the side of their PA-brethen or range ahead, not both.

Ahem, most of the things you have in the combat doctrine section belongs into organisation section.

The Grey Ghosts Chapter is organized slightly differently than even their primogentors, the White Scars, although the Grey Ghosts due have higher proportion of Bike Squads and Land Speeder squadrons than many Chapters, they do not quite rise to the level of the White Scars. The Grey Ghosts specialization in urban comaby encourages the use of man-portable heavy weapons over armored vehicles and as a result, unlike the White Scars, the Grey Ghosts do deploy Devastator squads. Due to the urban and hive enviroments, their Assault Squads make limited use of jump-packs, drop pods, and associated tactics, instead these Squads almost always deploy mounted on Bikes.

Dreadnoughts, as known to other chapters, are not employed by the Grey Ghosts, as the cold, metal sarcophagi of these mighty constructions evokes a horror of eternal confinement that goes against the philosophy, inheirted from the White Scars, that when a warrior dies, his soul should be free to travel to the afterlife. The chapter has developed similar weapons of war, named Chevaliers, which are piloted by a living member of the veteran First Brotherhood.
- This belongs into Combat Doctrines section...

++++
Overall: To be honest this article talks a lot about Perdu III, Jaghatai Khan, the White Scars and the GC & HH mess, but very little about actual Grey Ghost Chapter.

Edited by NightrawenII, 21 January 2011 - 10:56 AM.

[Aegnor]

Interesting stuff. There's even a reference to the Zoats!!

Couple of suggestions - you spend quite a bit of time explaining concepts that you could probably assume the reader of an IA would be familiar with - eg. what a hive city is (although the explanation of how the hives on Perdu organize themselves is worthwhile), the rationale and mechanics of the Second Founding, and who the White Scars are. The IA on your chapter is not the place to discuss the history of the White Scars - Matt Ward spent a whole two lines of the C:SM codex doing that! .

Not quite clear how the scouts work. Does your chapter actually maintain an equal number of scouts and marines? That's a pretty radical divergence. Or do 'mature' marines also serve as scouts alongside neophytes?

The repetition of the number 13 through the history is a bit odd. If it's introduced as a traditional belief that Khan arrived in the thirteenth hour of the thirteenth day, that's ok, but to say it as a fact and then drive it home through three or so further repetitions reads a bit over the top.

I like the Gargoyles!

On the exhausted nature of Perdu, thats pretty typical of any hive world, and they'd presumably now source raw ingredients from surrounding planets or asteroids as well as recycling? (which is a cool touch a la m surrounding planets or asteroids as well as recycling? (which is a cool touch a la Necromunda).

EDIT: ah, ninja'd by Nightrawen while I was typing that all out.

Edited by Aegnor, 21 January 2011 - 10:59 AM.

[Ishida]

The history and deeds of Jaghatai Khan and the White Scars.

Yeah, I had a feeling that I was going into too much depth here and "burying the lead" as they say. I want to keep some emphasis on how big an impact the Primarch had on the planet even before it was chosen as a Astartes homeworld.

This will be addressed in a future draft...

Combat Doctrine - Armoury, Librarium and Administratum

This is purely an organizational thing; The majority of these three groups are not Veterans (although, obviously the Master of the Forge and Chief Librarian are). But they are not part of any Brotherhood, instead reporting directly to the Chapter Master and/or First Brotherhood Captain. I didn't want to make the chart too much bigger.

This will be addressed in my second draft.

The repetition of the number thirteen throughout the history.

This was meant to lend a mythical or mystical air to the planet (and thus, the chapter's) story of how the Primarch came to the planet. Thirteen is seen as a good omen... The story of his arrival is a few millennia old. They may state "as a fact" that it was the thirteenth hour, that he slew the warboss with thirteen blows, etcetera. But this is the 41st Millennium, these same people would state "as a fact" that your toaster only works if you properly appease its spirit by depressing the sacred button, and if you anger the spirit it'll burn your pop-tarts.

Still, this could either be toned down or I could make the "omen" aspect more explicit.

The Brotherhood's Captain had direct command and control over them, without having to work with a seperate "Tenth Company;"
*sigh*
- 10th Company doesn't exist. It is matter of organisation(edit: or rather administrative), not the control nor command.

I don't follow, I was trying to contrast the Grey Ghosts' practice of directly attaching the equivalent of a Scout Company to a Battle Company; This means the Ghosts' Captain has direct command over the scouts, whereas in a Codex Chapter they're under the command of a seperate Company's Captain...

Now, you and I both know that the Codex araingment works just fine. But, my particular sect of 8' tall, acid-spitting, French-speaking, Space-Mongols... Well, they think they know better.

The Scouts are able to gain a depth frontline experince from their closer interaction with the Chapter's rank-and-file battle brothers
- Except, "The scouts role is to range ahead of the main Space Marine force, preparing the way for the main advance". They either fight at the side of their PA-brethen or range ahead, not both.

They can't do both? I figure that in war, just as on the table, some missions will have the Scouts fighting right their next to the Marines and other missions will have the Scouts infiltrating, scouting, and whatnot. A Scouts training lasts decades and when not fighting, they're training. They don't go for the Black Templar's style of direct squad intergration, but merging the Battle Company and the Scout Company puts the two into close and prolonged contact.

Couple of suggestions - you spend quite a bit of time explaining concepts that you could probably assume the reader of an IA would be familiar with - eg. what a hive city is (although the explanation of how the hives on Perdu organize themselves is worthwhile), the rationale and mechanics of the Second Founding, and who the White Scars are. The IA on your chapter is not the place to discuss the history of the White Scars - Matt Ward spent a whole two lines of the C:SM codex doing that!

I know most B&C readers know what a hive city is, but, I wanted my IA to be fairly complete... A) because my FLGS has a lot of folks new to the hobby, B ) I'm a world-building RPG GM at heart, and C) to emphasize how this hiveworld differs in some ways from the "typical" Necromunda-clone.

Not quite clear how the scouts work. Does your chapter actually maintain an equal number of scouts and marines? That's a pretty radical divergence. Or do 'mature' marines also serve as scouts alongside neophytes?

At full strength, their would be 300 Marines and 300 Scouts in the Chapter's "battle companies," the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Brotherhoods; the "reserve companies" (5th, 6th, 7th) and "veteran company" (1st) would have another 400 Marines... Plus your uncounted auxilaries from the commanders, apothercaron, librarium, armoury, etc.

So, yes, the Grey Ghosts use of Scouts is a pretty radical divergence... although, probably not to the point of calling down the wrath of the Inquistion or Adeptus Mechanicus. Scouts Companies in even puritanical chapters like the Ultramarines often exceed "100."

The Scout Sergeants are full Marines, and presumably seasoned veterans, but the rank-and-file Scouts are still neophytes, unlike the Space Wolves.

On the exhausted nature of Perdu, thats pretty typical of any hive world, and they'd presumably now source raw ingredients from surrounding planets or asteroids as well as recycling? (which is a cool touch a la m surrounding planets or asteroids as well as recycling? (which is a cool touch a la Necromunda).

Indeed, although this could be made more explicit. I also intended to get across that the shipyards of the planet excell at the dismantling and recycling of whole fleets.

Edit to Add: The first post has been modified with my second draft. I've cut out much of the White Scars fluff, tried to clarify a few things, and generally tiddy it all up. Have at it!

Edited by Ishida, 21 January 2011 - 05:26 PM.

[NightrawenII]

Combat Doctrine - Armoury, Librarium and Administratum

This is purely an organizational thing; The majority of these three groups are not Veterans (although, obviously the Master of the Forge and Chief Librarian are). But they are not part of any Brotherhood, instead reporting directly to the Chapter Master and/or First Brotherhood Captain. I didn't want to make the chart too much bigger.

Well, then Headquarters section is more appropriate.

I don't follow, I was trying to contrast the Grey Ghosts' practice of directly attaching the equivalent of a Scout Company to a Battle Company; This means the Ghosts' Captain has direct command over the scouts, whereas in a Codex Chapter they're under the command of a seperate Company's Captain...

That's what I'm talking about. The 10th company is purely administrative thing, not actual chain of command.

They can't do both? I figure that in war, just as on the table, some missions will have the Scouts fighting right their next to the Marines and other missions will have the Scouts infiltrating, scouting, and whatnot. A Scouts training lasts decades and when not fighting, they're training. They don't go for the Black Templar's style of direct squad intergration, but merging the Battle Company and the Scout Company puts the two into close and prolonged contact.

No they can't. Why? Because the reason for merging the battle and scout company is to give the Scouts depth frontline experince from their closer interaction with PA-brethen. If the Scouts operate like 'normal' Scouts do, then there is no point in merging the companies in the first place, right? You are basically invalidating your own arguments.

At full strength, their would be 300 Marines and 300 Scouts in the Chapter's "battle companies...

Errm, why do you have 300 Scouts?!? (instead of 200 Battle Brothers and 100+ Scouts)

Edited by NightrawenII, 22 January 2011 - 11:06 AM.

[trub]

I like the colour scheme, its very, very similar to my own.

[Ishida]

Combat Doctrine - Armoury, Librarium and Administratum

Well, then Headquarters section is more appropriate.

The First Brotherhood is the Headquarters section (note that the Chapter Master and staff are located here) as well as the Veterans section. I figure, all HQs are Veterans, but not all Veterans are HQ.

This means the Ghosts' Captain has direct command over the scouts, whereas in a Codex Chapter they're under the command of a seperate Company's Captain...

That's what I'm talking about. The 10th company is purely administrative thing, not actual chain of command.

The Ultramarines/Codex Tenth Company has its own Captain, Command Squad, and other attached Company-level assets. That seems pretty seperate to me.

[T]he reason for merging the battle and scout company is to give the Scouts [a] depth frontline [of] experince from their closer interaction with PA-brethen. If the Scouts operate like 'normal' Scouts do, then there is no point in merging the companies in the first place, right? You are basically invalidating your own arguments.

I have to respectfully disagree; Just because two units operate in seperate parts of the battlefield during some engagements does not mean those two squads are not working together. The "wake up, pray, train, pray, invade hell and kick Satan in the teeth, have lunch." image of the Astartes being in a state of unending war is a bit silly too. These guys do spend time in training off the frontlines.

At full strength, their would be 300 Marines and 300 Scouts in the Chapter's "battle companies...

Errm, why do you have 300 Scouts?!? (instead of 200 Battle Brothers and 100+ Scouts)

Because I think the models are cool and I want to.

One thing has been sticking in my proverbial craw, though... does my current draft make my Marines seem "too nice"? I want them to be 'good guys,' in the same vein as the 'superhero' Ultramarines, the 'barbarian hero' Space Wolves, or the 'humanitarian' Salamanders. I know 40K is all about the grimdark, but I think I might be having trouble striking the right balance between the two.

[Plague Angel]

Definitely agree that it takes way too long for the actual Grey Ghosts to appear.

I'm on your side about the scouts, though — Tenth Company is, well, a Company. With a Company Captain. He even gets a title, Master of Recruits, and his own Apocalypse stratagem. So... yeah, he exists.

I like the way you're integrating scouts, actually: great synthesis of table-top and fluff in your IA. Now, trim that beginning down!

[trub]

Hey, just had a quick run over this and think it has great potential. I look forward to seeing it develop further.

However, a few things do pop up.

Estimated Strength- I personally wouldn't advance the timeline.
History- Did the Novis Nobillite exist in M.23? (proof please.)
Who/What inhabits the bottom 2.4 miles of Hive Quan Primus then?
Engagments/Battles- I'd avoid such crucial and major engagements as Armageddon and the 13th B.C, there is plenty of battles to be had elsewhere to perform the said deeds.

As for the Chevalier idea, i like it and coincedentally had thought of doing something similar myself.

[Ishida]

Estimated Strength- I personally wouldn't advance the timeline.
History- Did the Novis Nobillite exist in M.23? (proof please.)
Who/What inhabits the bottom 2.4 miles of Hive Quan Primus then?
Engagments/Battles- I'd avoid such crucial and major engagements as Armageddon and the 13th B.C, there is plenty of battles to be had elsewhere to perform the said deeds.

Estimated Strength - According to the timeline on Lexicannum, this is the "current" date of the WH40k universe; Frankly, the vast majority of players pay no attention to this anyway, so its almost fluffier-than-fluff.

History - The navigator gene was developed in early M22, beauce by the end of M22 rthe great Navigator families, had gone from being controled by industrial and trading cartels, to become power bases in their own right and controlling those interests. M23 seems a reasonably late period for them to have founded a colony/shipyard just over the border from the Segmentum Solar. Sources: Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader, Space Marine by Ian Watson, and Rogue Trader by Fantasy Flight Games.

Who/What inhabits the bottom 2.4 miles of Hive Quan Primus then? - It is dark. You are likly to be eaten by a grue.

Engagments/Battles I tried to avoid having them do anything of great import. But since these were both "worldwide campaigns" that GW invited every 40K player in the world to partake in, and I did with my old un-named army of Marines, I might as well toss my new and improved Chapter into the mix. Pulling garrisson duty behind the lines on Armaggeddon, and being an "also ran" in the biggest dust-up since the Horus Heresy (as the 13th B.C. is said to be) seem pretty reasonable. I'm not saying we did much, just that we were there.

[trub]

Thanks for clearing all that up, but i still have one issue.

Who/What inhabits the bottom 2.4 miles of Hive Quan Primus then? - It is dark. You are likly to be eaten by a grue.

What is a Grue? and if its so dangerous and dark- who built it? and how?

[Ishida]

Thanks for clearing all that up, but i still have one issue.

Who/What inhabits the bottom 2.4 miles of Hive Quan Primus then? - It is dark. You are likly to be eaten by a grue.

What is a Grue? and if its so dangerous and dark- who built it? and how?

That was meant to be a joke... it isn't as funny if I have to explain it. Truth is, I was cribbing off of Necromunda with this bit of worldbuilding. Necromunda's Hive Primus is of simlar dimensions and has a mile or two at the very bottom that is nominally unihabited, unexplored, and dangerous. The Hive-World equivalent of old maps marked "Here Be Dragons."

I imagine it got build back in M23-24, at the founding of the colony, and has become quite literally the foundation for the rest of the hive. In the 17,000 years that have come and gone... no one knows. It's the dark spot on the map, the place angels fear to tread, and where things go bump in the night.

[trub]

Ah, i see. I understand know. Cheers.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

This means the Ghosts' Captain has direct command over the scouts, whereas in a Codex Chapter they're under the command of a seperate Company's Captain...

That's what I'm talking about. The 10th company is purely administrative thing, not actual chain of command.

The Ultramarines/Codex Tenth Company has its own Captain, Command Squad, and other attached Company-level assets. That seems pretty seperate to me.

It is, but Scouts are attached on an ad-hoc basis where required so they fall under the command auhtority of the battlefield commander, not the Company Captain of the Tenth.

During training and when not engaged in operatiosn the Master of Recruits is the only Tenth Company authority, but as above on operations that is different.

[CKO]

This is a very well written Planetary description! No I am just joking but the majority of the IA is about the Home World not the Ghosts, I think you can easily fix this problem by reorganizing the sections, besides that the IA is well written. One bad thing though is your chapter lacks character, they are basically white scars organized differently. I know you can respond and point out all the ways they are different but as the writer you should want me to see the difference not be told.


Now on to the scouts, you guys are misunderstanding Nightrawen with the scouts. The 10th company does not operate like other companys, it is a group of scout squads that are seperated and assist other companies. Ishida there is no divergence as the scouts will always do whatever the Battle Company Captain they are attached to tells them. You make it seems as if the Chapter Master will deploy the 10th company somewhere alone, which will never happen as they view them as marines in the making not true Astartes. The only true divergence your scouts have is being deployed in the frontline, which is fine but its not anything major infact with your chapter being low on marines you can justify it.

Edited by CKO, 22 January 2011 - 05:36 PM.

[Ishida]

This is a very well written Planetary description! No I am just joking but the majority of the IA is about the Home World not the Ghosts, I think you can easily fix this problem by reorganizing the sections, besides that the IA is well written. One bad thing though is your chapter lacks character, they are basically white scars organized differently. I know you can respond and point out all the ways they are different but as the writer you should want me to see the difference not be told.

I am well aware that this is my current biggest flaw, and am presently stumped on how to improve it.

As for the Scouts, remember, I'm not saying that is how the Codex chapters' Tenth Companies work, I am saying that is how the Grey Ghosts' think they work. They may very well be wrong and switching to a Codex Astartes setup would be better... but they don't see it that way. As with the Black Templars' Neophyte-in-Tac-Squads system, the Space Wolves' Blood Claws system, or other oddities, the Grey Ghosts have a quirky organizational structure. They're a Seventh Founding descenant of a 1,000 man-stong biker gang.

Rather than argue the merits and flaws of the setup from a tactical or strategic perspective, I think it should be looked at from a storytelling one. Does it mesh with the universe? Does it add character? Will it look cool when painted?

[Plague Angel]

This is a very well written Planetary description! No I am just joking but the majority of the IA is about the Home World not the Ghosts, I think you can easily fix this problem by reorganizing the sections, besides that the IA is well written. One bad thing though is your chapter lacks character, they are basically white scars organized differently. I know you can respond and point out all the ways they are different but as the writer you should want me to see the difference not be told.

I am well aware that this is my current biggest flaw, and am presently stumped on how to improve it.

Cutting words out might be a start.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

but Scouts are attached on an ad-hoc basis where required so they fall under the command authority of the battlefield commander, not the Company Captain of the Tenth.

Now on to the scouts, you guys are misunderstanding Nightrawen with the scouts.

[CKO]

I am well aware that this is my current biggest flaw, and am presently stumped on how to improve it.

I am sure with time you will come up with a creative way to fix this one problem.

As for the Scouts, remember, I'm not saying that is how the Codex chapters' Tenth Companies work, I am saying that is how the Grey Ghosts' think they work.

What you said and what you meant is not understood by several readers, maybe you can think of a way to re-word it.

They may very well be wrong and switching to a Codex Astartes setup would be better... but they don't see it that way. As with the Black Templars' Neophyte-in-Tac-Squads system, the Space Wolves' Blood Claws system, or other oddities, the Grey Ghosts have a quirky organizational structure. They're a Seventh Founding descenant of a 1,000 man-stong biker gang.

I certainly dont neccessarily think the Codex Astartes scout setup is the best and I encourage you to be different in this area if you wish as it can add character to your chapter. However make sure you understand how it works before you say things like radically different.

Rather than argue the merits and flaws of the setup from a tactical or strategic perspective, I think it should be looked at from a storytelling one. Does it mesh with the universe? Does it add character? Will it look cool when painted?

, I can care less about the tactical or strategic perspective, you were saying that the scouts were different from other chapters when they were actually the same!

I would not worry about it to much both of your IA's problem can easily be fixed and for a first draft that is good.

Edited by CKO, 22 January 2011 - 06:18 PM.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Rather than argue the merits and flaws of the setup from a tactical or strategic perspective, I think it should be looked at from a storytelling one. Does it mesh with the universe? Does it add character? Will it look cool when painted?

Therein lies the problem, young Padawan.

It is a tactical/strategic problem, which means it has to be considered as such as part of the fluff; i.e. if it makes no actual sense then it breaks the "spirit" of the IA.

[Plague Angel]

The other problem is that an IA is a third-person document. Saying "this is the way the Grey Ghosts view things, not how it actually is" doesn't help if the narrator is the one saying it.

[Ishida]

Excellent feedback from all, and I'm grateful for it. I hope no one takes my defenses and rebuttals as being overly defensive. I'm going to rework the "openning" to focus on the Grey Ghosts first, but I want to leave the planet information. IMHO, a Chapter's homeworld is often one of the most interesting parts of them. Ultramar and Macragge, Fenris, the Rock, Titan... you can say those names alone and convey a lot of meaning to a 40K player. I can't claim to ever match that, but I want to invoke some similar feeling.

I think I begin to see now that many of the objections/reservations with my characterization of them. This will be addressed.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I hope no one takes my defenses and rebuttals as being overly defensive.

Everyone starts out as overly defensive, with perfectly good answers to glaringly obvious faults

[Aegnor]

Looking good - v1.1 heading in the right direction. I like your write up. I understand you want to have the background about the planet in there - it's one of central parts of your idea for your chapter. But would still say it's a bit too detailed for an article about your chapter.

Some practical suggestions: I'd cut what you currently have in "Origins" to one or two sentences. We already know who the White Scars are, and that they're kick-ass. Anything beyond "the White Scars saved Perdu from waaugh Hulka, and remain the subject of veneration and myth" is probably superfluous. The parts explaining how your guys vary from their founding legion is good though.

I think we're getting a bit wrapped around the axles on the Scout issue. Maybe try a reword with a focus on the key points - which I think are cool. You guys have a lot of scouts (as many as one scout per marine) and they fight in a much bigger role in the main battle line than is the norm, while also fulfilling their 'standard' role of recon and scouting. I think saying that "their organisation is different to the Codex" isnt conveying why they're cool. If part of their idea is they spend longer with specific battle companies to get in depth experience, maybe it could be the case they get permenantly attached to a specific company, and even further, each squad gets paired up with a squad of marines as mentors.

In terms of their character, I'd suggest actually telling us a bit more, with some short illustration. I'd suggest staying away from any further organization variation to show personality, but rather what they do. Are they stern, controlled, fierce, pragmatic, superstitious, sympathetic to humans (within reason) or contemptuous of their weakness? I think with your emphasis on scouts, the gargoyles, and your cool name, you've already got the basis for a characterful force, so flesh that out a bit more maybe.

Finally, I don't mind the references to Armageddon and the Black Crusade - particularly if these guys on the tabletop took part in those campaigns, some kind of reference is nice.