Lysimachus Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I think both the all ‘Battle’ Companies and PA neophytes really fit with the Blazing Sons mentality, that idea of overwhelming force and using everything you have available. It’s also interesting in that both points make them a stronger fighting force now, but could they potentially weaken them in the future (i.e. no reserves)? That again fits to me though, as they seem a very ‘here and now’ kind of Chapter? The world is in civil war due to chaos meddling. The Iron Hands view the Firaxians (subject) as weak to fall to chaos. (Remember these are the guys who kill civilians for not fighting when their city is invaded, or for just being afraid) The Blazing Sons however take the opinion that they are strong because of their will to fight their erstwhile brethren that have fallen. Yes there would be some grey areas in each of the camps but if the Sons rally behind a particularly charismatic captain (a good trait for a leader, by the by) then I can easily see a split happening. Hmmm, the question is though, where do they get these opinions? We have very little idea where a Chapter’s initial batch (pre-homeworld) of recruits comes from. Would they be opinionated enough to rebel against their mentors? I guess it might work if it all happens a reasonable length of time after their creation (50-100 years?), as that would give more time for the majority of the officers to be Blazing Sons, not Iron Hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Argent Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Just so you know I've decided that I'm going to collect a small force of Blazing Sons. I lovethe semi saxon feel and the whole fist to face mentality. They wil fight alongside my Eternal Legion and, more recently, my Exculpators. They sall be the Fourth Company (or equivilant) and they shall be led by my remake of the legendary Captain Coenwahl. Which reminds me I still haven't sent the original to you. A thousand apologies and I hope to do so soon. Can you PM me the address again as I believe I've lost the old one? Also I like the Power Armour recruit thing. As such I would (prepares for complaints of bandwagoning) probably use the SW Codex. As for an in universe reason, I'm not really sure. Do they need a reason to stay Codex? They just shafted their Semi-Codex Iron Hands training cadre, aren't tjhey going to make some choices on what to change on their own? EDIT:Born 1986? Whoa, freaky. So was I... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Hunter Ydalir Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 Thanks for the input guys. I'll reply from the bottom up, or backwards, as is my style. :D @SP Just so you know I've decided that I'm going to collect a small force of Blazing Sons. I lovethe semi saxon feel and the whole fist to face mentality. They wil fight alongside my Eternal Legion and, more recently, my Exculpators. They sall be the Fourth Company (or equivilant) and they shall be led by my remake of the legendary Captain Coenwahl. Which reminds me I still haven't sent the original to you. A thousand apologies and I hope to do so soon. Can you PM me the address again as I believe I've lost the old one? I'm honoured! -_- I cant wait to see what your minis come out like. Oh and if you don't mind, give me a blow by blow of how you paint them up as I want to achieve the same look with my own that I'm entering into the Librarium painting comp. I'll PM you the details ASAP. Also I like the Power Armour recruit thing. As such I would (prepares for complaints of bandwagoning) probably use the SW Codex. As for an in universe reason, I'm not really sure. Do they need a reason to stay Codex? They just shafted their Semi-Codex Iron Hands training cadre, aren't tjhey going to make some choices on what to change on their own? Let the bandwagon roll on.... Well this is all good to hear, I was originally going to use the SW Codex when it came to finally collecting a force for the tabletop and since that's now actually happening, I'm glad my choice was not on it's own in regards to the codex. I suppose they are going to make some changes, and I think that having just expelled the Iron Hands is good enough reason to make some changes. @SCL I think both the all ‘Battle’ Companies and PA neophytes really fit with the Blazing Sons mentality, that idea of overwhelming force and using everything you have available. It’s also interesting in that both points make them a stronger fighting force now, but could they potentially weaken them in the future (i.e. no reserves)? That again fits to me though, as they seem a very ‘here and now’ kind of Chapter? Absolutely, 'here and now' is a very good definition of the mindset they operate under. I also appreciate backing up my original thoughts as to their character and how it would express in organization. I have been loathe to consider cutting these points so keeping them has made me rather happy. Hmmm, the question is though, where do they get these opinions? We have very little idea where a Chapter’s initial batch (pre-homeworld) of recruits comes from. Would they be opinionated enough to rebel against their mentors? I guess it might work if it all happens a reasonable length of time after their creation (50-100 years?), as that would give more time for the majority of the officers to be Blazing Sons, not Iron Hands. My answer is that everyone is different and that each individual reacts to things differently. I will definitely extend the time frame of the chapter and it's cadre fighting along side one another, but I do think a certain amount can be laid on the original captain's (now named Tiran) shoulders as a consequence of his own intrinsic moral and ethical beliefs as natural to him. In any case this couple of days has quickly wrapped up the Organization problems I was having so I'll see if I can get a rough outline up again and then move on. Thanks guys. :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Argent Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I got a question or two if I may. In regards to using the SW Codex for the Blazing Sons, do you see them going all out with the anti codex attitude (say Terminator Armoured Sergeants of PA armoured Squads, Lone Wolf style Characters etc) or just with the use of PA recruits. nd how Space Wolfy would they look as far as parts go? Just a smattering or more full on, or none at all? Just trying to visualise how I'm going to go about doing it. Oh and I'm changing my way of paitning them a little, I think. I'll paint up a few and see what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Hunter Ydalir Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 Well the 'Viking' influence of the SW is really a more broad Norse, with some Germanic and even Celtic influences brought along for the ride. The Saxons are incredibly similar and only really start to diverge noticeably when they invade and settle in England. Visually anyway. I'll forward you some of the visual cues I use for how I see them in my mind. As for how SW they go, I'm not sure how far I want to take it. They aren't the Space Wolves. However, being Iron Hands descendants, using Termie armour for sargent's fit's well anyway, but it's something I have to think about. The only things I'd outlaw for use in a 'fluffy' Blazing Sons force would be those god-awful thunder wolves, wolves of any kind and any of the Leman Russ variants that if memory serves me, they always used to be able to use. Everything else can be explained and justified. Ergh I'm ranting. That's enough from me for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 The dragon print on the greave Do they all have some kind of greave on their right leg? or is it just Sergenats/Veterans/other? Ludovic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Hunter Ydalir Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 The Tiwaz rune on the shoulder is the veterancy mark here, in regards to actual unit marking. Anything else is just a personal touch by the marine himself. I imagine a lot of them have similar touches, some veteran officers even having their men print their own symbol somewhere on their armour to show their loyalty, or as a mark of respect for a fallen leader, etc. Edit By the way the rune actually means 'Victory' so I thought it was a nice touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 The Tiwaz rune on the shoulder is the veterancy mark here, in regards to actual unit marking. Anything else is just a personal touch by the marine himself. I imagine a lot of them have similar touches, some veteran officers even having their men print their own symbol somewhere on their armour to show their loyalty, or as a mark of respect for a fallen leader, etc. Edit By the way the rune actually means 'Victory' so I thought it was a nice touch. Nice, I like it B) Also, is the armour yellow or bronze? Ludovic Edit: Would it be possible for you to send me a link to website where you found the Saxon rune(s)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingsOfTheFalcon Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I thought I'd commented on this IA, but seems to have vanished! To me it seems strange that their armour and weapons are not properly maintained. With any military force, maintaining and repairing their gear is of paramout importance to survival. I can understand if the gear gets a bit of patina to it, but to be broken/chipped etc is undermining the protection afforded by the armour itself. Perhaps you should have some development whereby the Chapter Foundry/Techmarines/MotF are destroyed/killed. This could explain why they only seem to undertake rudimentary field repairs, similar in a way to the Marines Malevolent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 The world is in civil war due to chaos meddling. The Iron Hands view the Firaxians (subject) as weak to fall to chaos. (Remember these are the guys who kill civilians for not fighting when their city is invaded, or for just being afraid) The Blazing Sons however take the opinion that they are strong because of their will to fight their erstwhile brethren that have fallen. Aren't these guys Marines Malevolent? I'm just asking for clarification... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Hunter Ydalir Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 Am I the only one who ever read the various colour pieces strewn through out White Dwarf and such of the Iron Hands psychotic mentality towards weakness in any form, even their own? I don't think I'm crazy, but I know it's there. I also know that not every Iron Hand will be so extreme, but for the sake of my IA's plot and the entire narrative of the Blazing Sons story I am taking this extremism and using it as something to rebel against. It works for me on many levels and is even something I can tie together for the Feb challenge for the IG2011, tying in another real-world myth in the process and still have the dichotomy of the Iron Hands being rejected by their Successor for extremism and having it being illustrated to them by the Sons own brand of virtually the same thing. The latter will be, of course, if I can manage to write it out and justify it well enough for it to make sense. Everyone has their own interpretation of the shared universe and I don't think I'm coming down unfairly on the Iron Hands for being so callous and cold as it is part of their character. I'm also rather sick of answering questions as to their feasibility as the villains in the Sons origins so for now, unless someone can give me a rather good argument against them, they're staying and that's that. And that's not something I say a lot. I don't mean to come across snarkily but frankly I am rather fed up with it, there is a hell of a lot more work to be done and I'd rather get on with it. Edit: Sorry to miss out on everyone else, here we are. ;) To me it seems strange that their armour and weapons are not properly maintained. With any military force, maintaining and repairing their gear is of paramout importance to survival. I can understand if the gear gets a bit of patina to it, but to be broken/chipped etc is undermining the protection afforded by the armour itself. I think I described it badly, that's not quite what I meant. The gear is maintained to keep it in full working order, but the Sons drive themselves and by extension their wargear very hard. Not stopping, not taking breaks bar resupply. Even extended campaigns across multiple worlds, they move straight from one war zone to the next as soon as they can. They stop only long enough to do essential repairs and rearming. While their equipment may be kept in perfect working condition, the aesthetics aren't important. If the shield has a dent or two and a couple of scratches, but the power core is working in top condition and the marks aren't affecting structural integrity, they'll use it and rather the time spent buffing the damn thing and adding another layer of paint was better spent in other areas. They may arrive at a war zone looking fairly good, but by the end of it they will look worn down. While you'd think this was natural for any war worn force, it's never seemed to be a common view of the Astartes and as such I'm using it as a quirk of the chapter. Also, is the armour yellow or bronze? Ludovic Edit: Would it be possible for you to send me a link to website where you found the Saxon rune(s)? Glad you like it. :P I first found it on Wikipedia, but I found a rather nice wallpaper jobbie on DeviantArt.com. I wiki where it is explained in more detail, here. It's not literally 'victory' but is the symbol for the god Tyr, who is the god of single combat, victory and heroic glory. The Sons naturally don't associate with the latter part, but I'm picking and choosing now to fit with the character of the chapter. I'm also rambling on a bit. In the end Tyr ties in well as the 'even handed god' who sacrificed his arm to Fenir. The Sons view your choice, for good or bad to be yours and you pay the consequences for it. To them, they are balanced. *Edit2* Sorry, the armour is meant to be bronze, it just doesn't come out quite that way in the painter. I could probably make it darker but I'm not really game to edit the image now at this stage and it works more than well enough as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkey Kong Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I read Strike Captain Lysimachus's post 51 I guess it might work if it all happens a reasonable length of time after their creation (50-100 years?), as that would give more time for the majority of the officers to be Blazing Sons, not Iron Hands. What if they found this world long after the Iron Hands in the Chapter had died out. Does it matter that this world was going to be destroyed before it was saved as a recruiting ground? The Tiwaz rune on the shoulder is the veterancy mark here, in regards to actual unit marking. Anything else is just a personal touch by the marine himself. I imagine a lot of them have similar touches, some veteran officers even having their men print their own symbol somewhere on their armour to show their loyalty, or as a mark of respect for a fallen leader, etc. I think this conflicts a little with the mentality of functionality only though, doesn't it? I imagined it to be a very Death Guard take on armor and weapons with the bare minimum. It actually makes even the color bronze kind of unnecessary too. Whoops, I just gave you more work, didn't I ;) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Sorry, the armour is meant to be bronze, it just doesn't come out quite that way in the painter. I could probably make it darker but I'm not really game to edit the image now at this stage and it works more than well enough as is. What colour are the symbols meant to be? At the moment they are "GW paint Golden Yellow". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Hunter Ydalir Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 What if they found this world long after the Iron Hands in the Chapter had died out. Does it matter that this world was going to be destroyed before it was saved as a recruiting ground? If they did, this wouldn't be my IA on the Blazing Sons now would it? ;) In this IA, they don't die out and the conflict ensues. I think this conflicts a little with the mentality of functionality only though, doesn't it? I imagined it to be a very Death Guard take on armor and weapons with the bare minimum. It actually makes even the color bronze kind of unnecessary too. They get very little time off, that's not to say they get no time off. The warp travel that can take weeks to years to traverse would give them time enough to make sure everything they wanted to get right was done, just in time to for it all to get smashed, dented, scratched and blown up in the next war they get themselves into. Yes they are very Death Guard in their mentality, but they aren't totally without personality since they are still Firaxians and the natives have their own art and culture that binds them. Is it a little bit contradictory? Yeah, but only in the short term. Edit: Heru, you can make the symbols anything you like, though I think the sunburst chapter badge should stay golden, since it is a sun motif after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Heru, you can make the symbols anything you like, though I think the sunburst chapter badge should stay golden, since it is a sun motif after all. I'll leave them the way they are then. How does the bronze look to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Hunter Ydalir Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 Yes I'm still here and still working! (Just!) Well I can't really decide as to which I like better. I think though, that the darker bronze one is closer to how the minis come out when they're done. As for my progress on these guys, it's stalled a little with the advent of, well, work being bad and bills being bills. :P That said, I've made strong progress with my story for the Founding Moment challenge for the IG2011 and even have some models in the process of being painted up for the LPC! Me? Minis? Who woulda' thunk it? So, anyone who wants to give input as to which scheme is best, I welcome you. Any thoughts on the Blazing Sons in general are appreciated while I work on the backlog of outline sections that I haven't gotten around to yet, even the ones which are done but just not yet posted. Ah well, back to the grind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I think cats whiskers should be added to the helmet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Hunter Ydalir Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 I'm not having a repeat of Brother Thunderbunny in the Blazing Sons, thank you. Maybe some other chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I'm not having a repeat of Brother Thunderbunny in the Blazing Sons, thank you. Maybe some other chapter. Why not? I got a Space Hippo of Orion! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Renatus Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Yay! Brother Thunderbunny is honored at his apparent fame. He regrets he couldn't be here to thank you himself, but he had an unscheduled visit from the Inquisition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 The bronze one is the better one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Hunter Ydalir Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 That's pretty much my opinion too. Yay! Brother Thunderbunny is honored at his apparent fame. He regrets he couldn't be here to thank you himself, but he had an unscheduled visit from the Inquisition. That sounds ominous! Why not? I got a Space Hippo of Orion! Well having an amusing painter version of one of my marines is fine, but I just disagree with cat's whiskers. While they are indeed the cats whiskers, I'm not sure they fit. Blazing Whiskers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Why not? I got a Space Hippo of Orion! Well having an amusing painter version of one of my marines is fine, but I just disagree with cat's whiskers. While they are indeed the cats whiskers, I'm not sure they fit. Blazing Whiskers? In fairness my IA is about Saxons not Hippos.. But still I got a Hippo. Why do you get special treatment? OT: I figure a dark bronze would look better - it would lend itsself to that whole "it works but isn't pretty" aesthetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 OT: I figure a dark bronze would look better - it would lend itsself to that whole "it works but isn't pretty" aesthetic. This is my opinion as well. If you read the statement of Ydalir's mental image of them, they are describes as having beaten, worn armour, such armour will almost be darker because of the level of blood and dirt dried onto the armour. I based the miniatures I made of the Blazing Sons on this, taking Bright Bronze and giving them several washes of Baal Red, which is very dark and gives them a very weatherworn appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Quick question: What's the current situation with these chaps? I would like to get starting on their nemesis sometime soon :D Ludovic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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