WarpWalker Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Corby- Once again congrats on your victory. Looking back is there anything you would have changed? BO- You of all people have no room to talk. After showing your ugly side during that "No combat squading from reserves rule" fiasco. Is just a bit too soon to see your negative posts. The SR is going to a god sent for the blood angels as a whole. But it still won't be for everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 the thing with stormravens is that its so easy to put all your eggs in one basket -_- take the latest list i played for example. i had a SR with hurricane bolters, 8 VV's with dual LCS, PF and PW, and a furioso in it. the only other assault unit i had was a an assautl squad with liby and S, who basicly tried to (in vain) match the speed of the behemoth. the first game i played i moved flat out and the first AT attack that shot at it immobizlied it. boom destroyed stormraven before it even did anything...my elite close combat units were in the middle of the board in front of 2 leman russes, a basilisk and a ****-load of guardsmen.....yea that game dident go to well other games ive played (2 in fact) its been taken out by autocannons.....AUTOCANNONS! come on! they are S7...aside from transports they shouldnt be able to take down all that much but they can obliderate a 200 base pts vehicle :down: other games i was able to utilize its speed, the scenario (dawn of war) and some target priority to basicly throw my opponents game plan in dissaray but tbh i havent found a way to do that without dawn of war yet. dont get me wrong, its a nice vehicle. it just has a eh...steep learning curve (for me anyway :( ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Weve got all these other players drooling over the SR while there are people here who have already panned it based purely on speculation and their own brand of theoryhammer... wow. G True true, that's why I don't dare to simply say it's bad at the moment either... On the other hand; I came a cross a nice comparison of somebody a while ago (AbusePuppy I think) when he said a unit, which he never played with, was bad too. It was something along the lines of: 'Just because I never ate glass, doesn't mean I can't know that it will hurt. This is due to the nature of glass which I'm familiar with". So it's not necessarily wrong to dismiss certain units before having played with them... it's risky I guess, as in this case it is a very special kind of new unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 where do you get the idea that the Bloodstrikes are 4 different weapons? Me and my mates had this discussion and came to the conclusion that because they are listed together in the SR's main entry then they are actually one weapon for the purposes of firing them. If this has been FAQ'd or there is something in the main rulebook we missed I would like to know please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corby Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Nice to meet you Corby, and congratulations on your success with the list you posted. -Mike Cheers. :wacko: Nice to meet you as well. Hopefully will do better next time. The list itself is solid , and is the result of 4 different builds I've spent the best part of 8 months play testing , taking the most effective parts from each build and meshing it together in one army. Nothing much I would change , possibly find the right balance between aggression and conservation with the stormraven , as some games I played far too aggressively , at the expense of my stormraven's life , and other games I played far too defensively , at the expensive of my stormraven's capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Corby would you mind sharing your list? G :wacko: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corby Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Corby would you mind sharing your list? G :wacko: Its on the previous page. Just above your comment about people saying Land Raider Crusader's were bad :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 'Just because I never ate glass, doesn't mean I can't know that it will hurt. This is due to the nature of glass which I'm familiar with". So it's not necessarily wrong to dismiss certain units before having played with them... it's risky I guess, as in this case it is a very special kind of new unit. No one is saying there is a benefit in eating glass, but there is a benefit to using a Raven. Some people will find great success, some will find horrible failure... some both. but theory hammer doens't take into account very many real things, like how to use it effectively... (unlike BO who actually examines how to do so) and what all it brings to the table... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isryion Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Haven't used one yet, but I'm assembling two. I feel like one will be targeted too easily. At first I thought the cost was too prohibitive but then realized that I was paying 80+ points for a drop pod and a rhino to carry the same troops. So I look at it as paying a 120 for a much better vehicle (and transport) that essentially makes my entire army better. I plan to have one with a librarian and 10 RAS while the other has a more elite element (DC, VV, Termies, etc) and have them work in tandem but have a flexible plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R0N1N Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 where do you get the idea that the Bloodstrikes are 4 different weapons? Me and my mates had this discussion and came to the conclusion that because they are listed together in the SR's main entry then they are actually one weapon for the purposes of firing them. If this has been FAQ'd or there is something in the main rulebook we missed I would like to know please. Maybe I can answer. I also have it as 4 different wepons because it is listed in the Stormraven wargear as "four bloodstrike missiles", the wargear lists all the individual weapons on the SR, looking at the weapon profile it also states that it is a "heavy 1, One shot" weapon. That tells me that it is the profile for 1 missile. We're playing it as 4 seperate weapons loaded on the SR, each with a one-shot profile as mentioned in the codex. Thus, if you do not move or move 6" only you should be able to fire all 4 missiles on 1 target. For us this makes more sence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Lucius Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I Know I'll be using two alongside 2 Furioso's and Mephy and so far 2 have been working well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evileyevirtue Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I think the issue with comparing it to a Valk or vendetta, is the points the SR is 70-80 points more expensive with no upgrades, and the squad inside is also more expensive. (a 5 man assault squad =10 vets, then if you take a dread you are way more expensive. And... so is everything else. A squad of marines is more expensive than any 10 man guard unit (ignoring special characters). Just like a tac squad in a rhino is more expensive than an infantry squad in a chimera. The difference you get for that 80 pts? It's tougher, has a higher transport capacity... oh yeah, and more guns. A LOT more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Check out my article: Stormraven tactica The stormrave is an option but needs careful consideration. I run a 2k SG army wit a pair of them off-loading 2 SG squads a Libby dread and a furioso. i wouldn't take SG to a tourney mind. However I am doing a tourney list which includes a pair of Ravens. You need to understand the Stormraven and make best use of it. like almost every option in the BA codex the raven is not for everyone but for those who chose it and decide to master it the bird can be very effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 'Just because I never ate glass, doesn't mean I can't know that it will hurt. This is due to the nature of glass which I'm familiar with". So it's not necessarily wrong to dismiss certain units before having played with them... it's risky I guess, as in this case it is a very special kind of new unit. No one is saying there is a benefit in eating glass, but there is a benefit to using a Raven. Some people will find great success, some will find horrible failure... some both. but theory hammer doens't take into account very many real things, like how to use it effectively... (unlike BO who actually examines how to do so) and what all it brings to the table... I think you missed the point of the comparison: It's not really theoryhammer. If you are a good player and have played with many different units over the years you can predict pretty well how a unit will perform on the table... Simply because you know what all the rules will actually mean on the field; how they will react in relation to other choices; what it means that it's a huge model; what different roles combined into 1 Av12 200+ points vehicle means; etc etc. You don't have to play 25+ games with each unit to be able to tell how good it is. But I already said: I won't say at the moment either that's it's a bad unit, it's just my prediction that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Okay Corby I missed that - thanks for that. I agree with what you have said - the SR only needs one turn to get its primary job done. Nice list btw. :) G :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 'Just because I never ate glass, doesn't mean I can't know that it will hurt. This is due to the nature of glass which I'm familiar with". So it's not necessarily wrong to dismiss certain units before having played with them... it's risky I guess, as in this case it is a very special kind of new unit. No one is saying there is a benefit in eating glass, but there is a benefit to using a Raven. Some people will find great success, some will find horrible failure... some both. but theory hammer doens't take into account very many real things, like how to use it effectively... (unlike BO who actually examines how to do so) and what all it brings to the table... I think you missed the point of the comparison: It's not really theoryhammer. If you are a good player and have played with many different units over the years you can predict pretty well how a unit will perform on the table... Simply because you know what all the rules will actually mean on the field; how they will react in relation to other choices; what it means that it's a huge model; what different roles combined into 1 Av12 200+ points vehicle means; etc etc. You don't have to play 25+ games with each unit to be able to tell how good it is. But I already said: I won't say at the moment either that's it's a bad unit, it's just my prediction that's all. Didn't miss the point at all, it is theory hammer. I'm saying a good player isn't as good as they think if they havn't tried it out in the roll or roles it's made for nor do they take everything it is into account if they say it's bad, here and now. It may be Bad for your stile of play, and tha'ts fine, but if i can get my squad and my dread into your lines and maybe even fire a shot or 2, then i'll be happy to pay the 200 points to have it do just that. And ,heaven forbid, you don't blow it up in one shot, or 3 or 4, or at all, and i get to unload more shots the next turn... yea, if it goes down on shot one, bummer, but that's a rare case... the more shots you pump into it, the more other squads arn't getting shot at... all give and take, synergy, yadda yadda... it's not like it's the only thing on the filed that you could or possibly should be shooting at.. and no you don't have to play 25 games, but you have to look at more angles then the very few most people look at it under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 yea, if it goes down on shot one, bummer, but that's a rare case... the more shots you pump into it, the more other squads arn't getting shot at... all give and take, synergy, yadda yadda... it's not like it's the only thing on the filed that you could or possibly should be shooting at.. and no you don't have to play 25 games, but you have to look at more angles then the very few most people look at it under. Well and here lies the problem: this makes it (in theory) automaticly not competative to me. If the chances of getting blown up early/easily are high, while it's an expensive unit where other units rely upon: That will lose you games now and then. Competative means reliable too, Storm Raven lists aren't that. With Land Raiders it's already a bit of a gamble; this is worse. Oh; saying that they aren't shooting at something else instead is fallacy I'm afraid... That goes for everything, it's important how efficient you are at bullet catching, the Raven isn't with his cost + cargo depending on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatter Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Everyone here has only mentioned assault troops as cargo. Sad. It's a sternguard & magnafrag-fury DS wonder. I cannot think of a better way of getting that much firepower on a single reserve roll in any marine codex. In fact... yes, FACT, there is no way. Shooty BA has a winning combo with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Weasel Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 yea, if it goes down on shot one, bummer, but that's a rare case... the more shots you pump into it, the more other squads arn't getting shot at... all give and take, synergy, yadda yadda... it's not like it's the only thing on the filed that you could or possibly should be shooting at.. and no you don't have to play 25 games, but you have to look at more angles then the very few most people look at it under. Well and here lies the problem: this makes it (in theory) automaticly not competative to me. If the chances of getting blown up early/easily are high, while it's an expensive unit where other units rely upon: That will lose you games now and then. Competative means reliable too, Storm Raven lists aren't that. With Land Raiders it's already a bit of a gamble; this is worse. Oh; saying that they aren't shooting at something else instead is fallacy I'm afraid... That goes for everything, it's important how efficient you are at bullet catching, the Raven isn't with his cost + cargo depending on it. and i disagree. If my DC and furioso (or termis or whatever i'm loading in) gets to the unit i want them to in that time:) I like the gamble... But i digress, I don't agree with your assessment, but i learned long ago, i'm not going to change anyones minds, it'll just be a back and forth of saying the same thing diffrent ways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Well we actually agree; you acknowledge that it's a gamble by saying that you like the gamble... Only I see gambling as non-competative, while you don't. Well let's not dicuss about that now will we? ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMouth Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 whats kind of funny is I have yet to see anyone discuss using a beacon to DS the raven in and start blasting things with it. Its my latest fun tactic. Drop Pods with Beacons or a squad, and then land raiders and ravens falling out of the sky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurb Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 whats kind of funny is I have yet to see anyone discuss using a beacon to DS the raven in and start blasting things with it. Its my latest fun tactic. Drop Pods with Beacons or a squad, and then land raiders and ravens falling out of the sky! Sounds fun :) B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezkh Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Well we actually agree; you acknowledge that it's a gamble by saying that you like the gamble... Only I see gambling as non-competative, while you don't. Well let's not dicuss about that now will we? ^^ Stormravens are as 'reliable' as plenty of other competitive options. Competitive armies use Deepstrike, Reserves, and Psychic powers all the time, all of which have a chance of not doing what you want built into them, but competitive players use them because the benefits far outweigh the risks taken. The raven brings some pretty impressive benefits to an army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Curious; what upgrades do u guys take for the SR other than extra armor usually? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 A StormRaven is an UTTER waste of points if you are using it to drop anything that shoots down. An Honour Guard with 4 Meltaguns will vaporize anything with armour when you DS them in using DoA. And they cost a fraction. The only issue with the StormRaven is how vulnerable it is to S8 Missile Launchers which are so prevalent these days. If it had front AV13 like the Furioso it would be AMAZING. However it doesn't. That means that you are at a huge risk of your crushing tactic of "swoop in, drop off Assault death, kill target" failing miserably before you even get to drop off your cargo within assault range. And when you look at things which are good competitively you have to look at how much of their success is dependent on an element of chance. The StormRaven is very dependent on chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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