Reldn Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 besides who dosn't like Cajuns in SPAAACE You sir, have made me want to read this book now just to see that. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 besides who dosn't like Cajuns in SPAAACE You sir, have made me want to read this book now just to see that. :lol: It's exactly as painful as you think it will be. I maintain my advocacy of skipping the first two books entirely. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Personally i would read Emperor's mercy, skip Flesh and Iron and read Blood Gorgons. The middle book sucks hard. Darkchild I'm shocked to hear so many people say that, actually. I really enjoyed Flesh and Iron, just as much as Emperor's Mercy. It had a real Apocalypse Now / Platoon feel to it, and it was fun to see loyalist turn to darkness, and the Imperium acting so sick and corrupt. On top of that, you get to see the unique way that Blood Gorgons deal with mortals that fight on their side. Huh. I guess it's all down to preference and taste....I liked the book though, and I'd suggest it. Same here, the first half was 'Nam-in-Space, which I found a bit boring, but then the story 'opened up'... :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkchild130 Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 It all just felt like a Gaunt's ghosts fanfic to me, just not as good. Plus there was the whole "utterly ripped off House to House" thing which as a serving soldier rubbed me up the wrong way from the start. somebody should have sued him for that. However Blood Gorgons has redeemed him in my eyes, as it's excellent. Darkchild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Tezdal Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 It all just felt like a Gaunt's ghosts fanfic to me, just not as good. Plus there was the whole "utterly ripped off House to House" thing which as a serving soldier rubbed me up the wrong way from the start.somebody should have sued him for that. However Blood Gorgons has redeemed him in my eyes, as it's excellent. Darkchild I don't know,it came off more "40kistic grimdark" to me then Gaunts Ghosts, in Gaunt's Ghost all it takes to take out a traitor marine is a few supercharged lasguns, in Flesh and Iron seemed like they actually had to work to kill 1, but I liked it, to each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decepticon Soundwave Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I enjoyed it for the most part. Up until the end he was killing almost every character I had come to like in the damnable book. But I read this book on train rides into manhatten 45 mins at a time to pass the time. I was entertained by it which is all I ask in my black library books. I want character development and violence. Simple thats it and Blood Gorgons provided that expectation of a black library book therefore it was a good book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subtlebrush Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I was hoping there would be an article showing the Blood Gorgon color scheme as it seems to be a cool idea. So its safe to assume to go ahead and read Blood Gorgons with no prior knowledge to them in the other novels? They seem very interesting to me. Mr.Malevolent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Yeah, you could easily read Blood Gorgons as a stand-alone...but you'd miss out on the way that Zou introduces them to us in the first two books. Zou truly turns them into terrors, nightmarish monsters that stalk and slaughter in the Emperor's Mercy and Flesh and Iron, but have failings and make mistakes, and can be killed (with some effeort, mind you). Too often, Chaos Marines are made into cannon fodder for 'good guy' books (damn Tanith), or unstoppable butchers in 'bad guy' books (Dark Apostle...sigh). Zou's really good about making them seem more realistic, and you can almost feel the terror eminating from the good guys in the first two books. I was already hooked on the Gorgons after the first two books, Blood Gorgons itself was just a sweet, sweet dessert after a wonderful meal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decepticon Soundwave Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Yeah, you could easily read Blood Gorgons as a stand-alone...but you'd miss out on the way that Zou introduces them to us in the first two books. Zou truly turns them into terrors, nightmarish monsters that stalk and slaughter in the Emperor's Mercy and Flesh and Iron, but have failings and make mistakes, and can be killed (with some effeort, mind you). Too often, Chaos Marines are made into cannon fodder for 'good guy' books (damn Tanith), or unstoppable butchers in 'bad guy' books (Dark Apostle...sigh). Zou's really good about making them seem more realistic, and you can almost feel the terror eminating from the good guys in the first two books. I was already hooked on the Gorgons after the first two books, Blood Gorgons itself was just a sweet, sweet dessert after a wonderful meal. I want to say other then Mkoll who should be wearing red and blue spandex with an M on his chest really all the marines in his books take like a platoon load of fire to take down. It is a crazy concentrated level of fire to kill one. Believe me when I say this you could replace the tanith with the justice league and almost no one would notice when dealing with traitor guard. However when it comes to dealing with space marines they need support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subtlebrush Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Yeah, you could easily read Blood Gorgons as a stand-alone...but you'd miss out on the way that Zou introduces them to us in the first two books. Zou truly turns them into terrors, nightmarish monsters that stalk and slaughter in the Emperor's Mercy and Flesh and Iron, but have failings and make mistakes, and can be killed (with some effeort, mind you). Too often, Chaos Marines are made into cannon fodder for 'good guy' books (damn Tanith), or unstoppable butchers in 'bad guy' books (Dark Apostle...sigh). Zou's really good about making them seem more realistic, and you can almost feel the terror eminating from the good guys in the first two books. I was already hooked on the Gorgons after the first two books, Blood Gorgons itself was just a sweet, sweet dessert after a wonderful meal. Thanks heathens. I think I'll actually hunt down the first two. I'm the type of person who needs a lot of inspiration to begin creating an army. I stopped my Sons of Malice due to almost no outside "fluff" (except for one short story and I'm a huge procrastinator when it comes to making my own fluff) and I finally started my Word Bearers because of Reynolds series. I read an excerpt from the first book and loved Zou's style and after seeing a pic of the Blood Gorgon from the recent book (way back when BL showed a preview pic on their blog) I wanted to know more about these mysterious Chaos Marines of red and black (at least I hope that's their scheme). Mr.Malevolent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I want to say other then Mkoll who should be wearing red and blue spandex with an M on his chest really all the marines in his books take like a platoon load of fire to take down. It is a crazy concentrated level of fire to kill one. Believe me when I say this you could replace the tanith with the justice league and almost no one would notice when dealing with traitor guard. However when it comes to dealing with space marines they need support. Did you even read Traitor General? Swamp men with moth darts kill Chaos Marines. It's endemic throughout the Gaunt's Ghosts series that anything touched by the Warp can and will die to anything touched by one of the Tanith, or is within 1km of anything of Tanith origin, no matter how grossly absurd the concept. I'm waiting for the novel where Abnett writes Tona Criid dropping a piano made of nalwood on a Reaver Titan and beheading it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 A thread where people praise Henry Zou, and dislike Dan Abnett. That blow to the head must've done more damage than I thought. I'm clearly seeing things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 A thread where people praise Henry Zou, and dislike Dan Abnett. That blow to the head must've done more damage than I thought. I'm clearly seeing things. Everyone goes right (or wrong) sometime. Besides, this is Chaos Ascendant, and Abnett has never really shown Chaos types a lot of love in his lore (barring the Heresy stuff, of course), whereas Blood Gorgon is full of good stuff, and it is the strongest of Zou's work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I've only read the first book, Emperor's Mercy is it? I enjoyed it more than I thought I would to be honest, but I've never read the Sabbat books, or Cain books so I don't really have a lot of non SM based books to compare it to, except Eisenhorn and Ravener, both of which will take some beating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 A thread where people praise Henry Zou, and dislike Dan Abnett. That blow to the head must've done more damage than I thought. I'm clearly seeing things. Everyone goes right (or wrong) sometime. Besides, this is Chaos Ascendant, and Abnett has never really shown Chaos types a lot of love in his lore (barring the Heresy stuff, of course), whereas Blood Gorgon is full of good stuff, and it is the strongest of Zou's work. Yeah, the forum itself does go a long way towards explaining the treatment of Blood Gorgons, since it's topical. That cover, though. Work of absolute beauty. I was saying to my editor a while back, that if I ever pitch and write the Abaddon/Black Legion/Rise of the Warmaster series, one of the main conditions will be that it gets Zou's cover artist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clewz Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 A thread where people praise Henry Zou, and dislike Dan Abnett. That blow to the head must've done more damage than I thought. I'm clearly seeing things. Everyone goes right (or wrong) sometime. Besides, this is Chaos Ascendant, and Abnett has never really shown Chaos types a lot of love in his lore (barring the Heresy stuff, of course), whereas Blood Gorgon is full of good stuff, and it is the strongest of Zou's work. Yeah, the forum itself does go a long way towards explaining the treatment of Blood Gorgons, since it's topical. That cover, though. Work of absolute beauty. I was saying to my editor a while back, that if I ever pitch and write the Abaddon/Black Legion/Rise of the Warmaster series, one of the main conditions will be that it gets Zou's cover artist. Think the artist that you've got doing your night lords series is pretty nifty though :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Joe Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 A thread where people praise Henry Zou, and dislike Dan Abnett. That blow to the head must've done more damage than I thought. I'm clearly seeing things. Everyone goes right (or wrong) sometime. Besides, this is Chaos Ascendant, and Abnett has never really shown Chaos types a lot of love in his lore (barring the Heresy stuff, of course), whereas Blood Gorgon is full of good stuff, and it is the strongest of Zou's work. Yeah, the forum itself does go a long way towards explaining the treatment of Blood Gorgons, since it's topical. That cover, though. Work of absolute beauty. I was saying to my editor a while back, that if I ever pitch and write the Abaddon/Black Legion/Rise of the Warmaster series, one of the main conditions will be that it gets Zou's cover artist. Think the artist that you've got doing your night lords series is pretty nifty though :tu: /agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decepticon Soundwave Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 do not get me wrong i love me some abnett he is my second favorite black library author. First being Aaron Demski-Bowden. This is the first thing by zou I even felt like reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Tezdal Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 A thread where people praise Henry Zou, and dislike Dan Abnett. That blow to the head must've done more damage than I thought. I'm clearly seeing things. Hey now, I love Dan's books, he just show us CSM no love ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkchild130 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Remember: All fluff is propoganda. If Abnett wrote something from a chaos perspective, I'm sure it would kick all shades of Imperial arse. I love strong protagonists, so I enjoy wholesale slaughter of the enemy no matter what side of the fence they sit. Darkchild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Remember: All fluff is propoganda. If Abnett wrote something from a chaos perspective, I'm sure it would kick all shades of Imperial arse. I love strong protagonists, so I enjoy wholesale slaughter of the enemy no matter what side of the fence they sit. Darkchild No, propaganda is propaganda; fluff is a story, and while perspectives may vary the events told in it are truth as the author has told them. It's not until the story is told secondhand that a bias can be given to it, and then it's propaganda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkchild130 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Well in that case any story told other than 100% in the first person is biased and second hand. Darkchild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Well in that case any story told other than 100% in the first person is biased and second hand. Darkchild In literature, the author's narrative qualifies as that. As long as the event in question is not being told second-hand inside the story itself, or passed third-hand by a character that wasn't physically there, or the narrative is tainted in some fashion by an author's bias without it being stated directly and from the beginning that the narrative is being told from the point of a bias, it's truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkchild130 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I dont agree, an author wants you to see certain character/events in a particular way, everybody is biased. If Blood Gorgons was written from a Death Guard point of view the Blood Gorgons would appear as weak and generally pathetic, but it isnt so they arent. The only way to get an unbiased story would be a completely dry list of events in chronological order with no extrapolation. Add the fact that GW themselves actually said to treat their fluff as propoganda, I wont be changing my view any time soon.(Hence why Matt Wardism does not offend me) Darkchild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Add the fact that GW themselves actually said to treat their fluff as propoganda, I wont be changing my view any time soon.(Hence why Matt Wardism does not offend me) Darkchild No one said you have to, just do the world a favor and don't be an historian. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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