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Grey Knight mk.II Fluff discussion


Vindicatus

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Alright, lets abstain from blatant bashing of GW Employee's please. While we all might have our disagreements with some choices and styles of particular folks, the B&C has a very clear No Trolling and No Flaming written down in the Forum Rules. This includes remarks about GW Employee's who aren't on here.

 

Even should this be true, and the Codex is written by Matt Ward, I think we should conduct ourselves like responsible adults, buy the new rules, and get on with our lives as we attempt to show everyone else the class the OI and the Inquisition conducts itself with :P We've been awesome for a long time, lets just keep it that way and apply our skill to a new book, eh?

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I wouldn't mind having a look at the fluff if someone could point me in the right direction as long as I don't have to downlaod and risk getting into trouble ;) so that I could judge it on my merit, also please remember that whatever fluff there is going to be very rough and will almost certainly be refined. Lets not forget that any fluff has to get the stamp of approval from Allen Merrett (spelling) and he does a sterling job
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The only xenos I can see the GK's having any contact with is the Harlequins. It's well established that they both serve the same purpose, just on opposite sides of the fence. And it wouldn't be out of character for the Harlequins to dole out some nifty doodads and books to an Inquisitor who could then hook the GK's up.

 

After perusing the fluff, I'm okay with it. It's not the best, and there are certainly elements that warrant a facepalm or two, but I'll take it. Especially considering what we've got now.

 

Also Justicar Thrawn is pretty heavily supposed to be a Sensei.

 

If that's the angle they're shooting for I'd eat that up, as it stands its kinda, "lolwut?"

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Alright, lets abstain from blatant bashing of GW Employee's please. While we all might have our disagreements with some choices and styles of particular folks, the B&C has a very clear No Trolling and No Flaming written down in the Forum Rules. This includes remarks about GW Employee's who aren't on here.

 

Even should this be true, and the Codex is written by Matt Ward, I think we should conduct ourselves like responsible adults, buy the new rules, and get on with our lives as we attempt to show everyone else the class the OI and the Inquisition conducts itself with :lol: We've been awesome for a long time, lets just keep it that way and apply our skill to a new book, eh?

 

Please be assured, I'm not attempting to challenge you, but is it really considered trolling to express distaste for a particular codex author's writing style?

 

And I doubt I'll be buying the new rules. I'm a fluff gamer, the background is why I'm into the game, and seeing the way certain writers have been taking a leak over that aspect recently is moving me rapidly towards Jaded Old Longbeard territory.

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Also Justicar Thrawn is pretty heavily supposed to be a Sensei.

 

1. I seriously doubt it. Sensei can be killed. I'm not sure what is up with Thrawn, but it is just, well, odd. I'm not sure why he is even in there like that. First, The Sanguinor, and now Thrawn. Great. I guess like a lot of you folks, I'm just not into some of the more recent "really out there" stuff that has crept into some of the 5th Edition codices. I'll just have to work to ignore the junk that I don't like. Thrawn doesn't interest me.

 

2. Mordrak and his Ghost Knights are another oddity, that has no real basis in historic 40k background material (unless you count the Legion of the Damned, but even they are different). I'm not sure why they are in the book. He, too, has me wondering, what the hell is going on with the Grey Knights? Mordrak doesn't strike me as "good fluff," but at least his rules are pretty cool, making him attractive in that regard.

 

3. The opposite of Mordrak, Castellan Garran Crowe has pretty good fluff, but crap for rules. Who wants to add a character to a unit that gives the enemy Furious Charge and rerolls to Hit? Who cares if he makes Purifiers Troops? He would have been much better with a regular Nemesis Force Sword (with his Rending), and he could carry the Sword of Antywr around on his back (like Cypher). Not going to bother with Crowe, either.

 

3.. I don't mind Draigo whooping ass in The Warp, but the part about Mortarion had me scratching my head, and it seems like he should have been allowed to stay in the "real world" once he had made it out. How can he be considered the Supreme Grand Master, when he's never around to run the Chapter? Who sitting in on the Inner Conclave of the Inquisition meetings while he is away? Somebody better be taking good notes for him, as he's got a lot of catching up to do when he gets back. I would have much more interest in Thrawn if he were just a regular badass, like Logan Grimnar, or Commander Dante; just put a face to the leadership of the Grey Knights. As it stands in the PDF, I'm not very interested in Draigo (but more so than the others).

 

I am seriously hoping (fingers crossed), that these are all very early versions that have since gone through major revision. I don't expect to like every Special Character in the book, but I should at least be able to identify with one of them, and want to try to fit one in a list. As it stands with the PDF version, I just want to stick with my own generic Grand Master or Brother-Captain, and a generic Librarian.

 

Pretty sad, actually.

 

Valerian

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1: Thrawn strikes me as odd. Conner McCleod of the 40k Universe, but no stats or rules to back up all the years of experience he's supposed ot have had. If he's a gazzilion years old, then why do people like Mordra have better stats than him?

 

2: I love Mordrak. The rules are new and well thought out. There's the risk of losing everything, tempered by the cheapness of the troops. As for the fluff, I like the grey area of the Ghosts being either the souls of the dead Knights, or just a manifestation of Mordraks guilt as a psychic power.

 

3: Crowe is bunk. Grand Strategy for Purifiers as Troops (and actually while thier Psychic Power is nice, with them being a CC orientated Squad and having Fearless, I'm going to skip them.). His rules *really* let him down. You want to Sacrifice a gibbly, use a normal BC. They are so much better. Fluff wise, I'm not bothered aobut him using a Daemonweapon. Shame really. Interesting non IC, let down by abysmal rules.

 

4: Draigo. Should have been let out of the Warp. He's not tied to it, just got sucked through. Plus, why does he make Pallies troops? He's got no resources, and no bearing on the structure of the Chapter. His fluff is far too " I WIN!" though. It needs to be toned down.

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"And Draigo carved his predecessor's name in Mortarion's heart. In a throwaway line. And he's thriving in the Warp without the aid of a Gellar field."

 

That sounds absolutely awesome! More of that, please! :devil:

 

I hope you are being sarcastic. A Marine carving ANYTHING on a primarch's ANYTHING? Thats just ridiculous! Damn Ward.

 

Nope, not sarcastic. I love it. :D

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I've had a bit of a think (it hurt lol ) and I believe that they are just trying a new angle fluff wise, my example would be the 4th edition space marine codex it was almost exactly the same as the one before the chaplains had new rules the captain had a nice one and so on but nothing had really changed, then came along the 5th edition dex and we got Vanguard, sternguard and a thunderfire cannon these where completely new and I loved and still do love the fact that they split the veterans down the middle because with that it brought a new element to the Space marines.

 

So as for Draigo I actually think it's pretty sweet ,if there is one man who can resist Chaos totally it's going to be the Chapter Master of the Grey knights, I mean the Grey knights are because of what they do react to daemonic invasions they cannot go into the eye of terror....or can they?... so at least one man is doing the incredible and taking the fight to them, also remember the archetypal lone warrior who sacrifices everything for what he believes they are usually knights because they hold themselves too a higher cause.

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One thing I find interesting is that dragio's in-game rules don't reflect any of his lost-in-the-warp fluff. So he can be used to represent any of the Supreme Grand Masters throughout history, or even the guy that took over in his absence. So you can ignore the whole fluff page when fielding him if you need to.
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One thing I find interesting is that dragio's in-game rules don't reflect any of his lost-in-the-warp fluff. So he can be used to represent any of the Supreme Grand Masters throughout history, or even the guy that took over in his absence. So you can ignore the whole fluff page when fielding him if you need to.

 

You absolutely can, but you shouldn't need to. The fluff for these special characters should support them, not detract from them.

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One thing I find interesting is that dragio's in-game rules don't reflect any of his lost-in-the-warp fluff. So he can be used to represent any of the Supreme Grand Masters throughout history, or even the guy that took over in his absence. So you can ignore the whole fluff page when fielding him if you need to.

 

You absolutely can, but you shouldn't need to. The fluff for these special characters should support them, not detract from them.

 

Exactly, and while I can appreciate the characters, and even some of their fluff, the only special character I'd even think about fielding is Mordrak. and even then with many reservations just because I don't like the idea of a unit hinging on the survival of one model, even if I like his fluff.

 

As far as Thawn, Stern, Crowe, Draigo, and their fluff is concerned, I'd rather take my own GM, BC's, and Librarians as a HQ unit.

 

Edit: Which isn't to say that I don't like Draigo's fluff. I think it's epic, just that I'd feel weird ever using him in my army. Everybody hating on him makes no sense. To be a Supreme Grand Master of the Grey Knights this guy is probably the psyker equivalent of Malcador and the warrior equivalent of Constantine Valdor, combined. If I was going to put money on who would survive the realm of Chaos, it'd be him.

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One thing I find interesting is that dragio's in-game rules don't reflect any of his lost-in-the-warp fluff. So he can be used to represent any of the Supreme Grand Masters throughout history, or even the guy that took over in his absence. So you can ignore the whole fluff page when fielding him if you need to.

 

You absolutely can, but you shouldn't need to. The fluff for these special characters should support them, not detract from them.

 

Exactly, and while I can appreciate the characters, and even some of their fluff, the only special character I'd even think about fielding is Mordrak. and even then with many reservations just because I don't like the idea of a unit hinging on the survival of one model, even if I like his fluff.

 

As far as Thawn, Stern, Crowe, Draigo, and their fluff is concerned, I'd rather take my own GM, BC's, and Librarians as a HQ unit.

 

Edit: Which isn't to say that I don't like Draigo's fluff. I think it's epic, just that I'd feel weird ever using him in my army. Everybody hating on him makes no sense. To be a Supreme Grand Master of the Grey Knights this guy is probably the psyker equivalent of Malcador and the warrior equivalent of Constantine Valdor, combined. If I was going to put money on who would survive the realm of Chaos, it'd be him.

 

The point isn't that it's not epic enough, the problem is that it's far too epic. We're talking about a space marine(which is what he is, he might be amazing, but he's still a Marine) who has not only defeated and humiliated a daemonic primarch, but has apparently survived travelling to the realm of chaos, a place that even the Emperor would not go, and even further while there, destroyed whole daemonic cities and so many legions of daemons that the servants of the chaos gods are terrified of him. While in their own realm. Which is the warp.

 

Sorry, it passed epic travelling at well over the speed limit when it had him defending an entire mountain pass against a daemonic horde...on his own....for two days.

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The point isn't that it's not epic enough, the problem is that it's far too epic. We're talking about a space marine(which is what he is, he might be amazing, but he's still a Marine) who has not only defeated and humiliated a daemonic primarch, but has apparently survived travelling to the realm of chaos, a place that even the Emperor would not go, and even further while there, destroyed whole daemonic cities and so many legions of daemons that the servants of the chaos gods are terrified of him. While in their own realm. Which is the warp.

 

Sorry, it passed epic travelling at well over the speed limit when it had him defending an entire mountain pass against a daemonic horde...on his own....for two days.

 

That doesn't make any sense. Grey Knights took out Angron during the first war of Armageddon. Ragnar of the Space Wolves pushed back a half summoned Magnus. So it's not possible that a Grey Knight Supreme Grand Master seeking revenge for his predecessors death deciding to rub salt in the wound by carving his name into a Daemon Prince Primarch's heart before sending him back to the Warp? Seems feasible to me. And anybody with the silver engraved hexagramic warded codpiece to do that will probably tromp through Chaos' back yard for awhile.

 

Of course they're going to write the fluff of the leader of the Grey Knights as so over the top that it's almost beyond belief. That's the whole point. This guy leads the Grey Knights. Everything he does is over the top.

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A brief browse through the leaked 'playtest' Codex made me shake my head. Oh wow, Matt Ward, I had thought what had happened to the Blood Angels was ridiculous, but now... This is just OTT piled upon yet even more OTT. Stat inflation my foot (I see a lot of 7s and 8s that would make Phoenix Lords green with envy), the anime-style shonen-esque battle between Sanguinor and Ka'Bandha has NOTHING on some of the stuff here.

 

Like, oh, Initiates disappearing without a trace, DA Inner Circle/Deathwing style, if they fail the tests of the Purifiers.

 

Or the Six Quests a Battle Brother has to overcome to even become a Paladin.

 

Or having a Champion run around with one of the most dangerous Daemon Weapons imaginable.

 

The one with Draigo was particularly hilarious. Survives not only days, but CENTURIES in the Warp. And your run-of-the-mill Daemons RUN AWAY FROM HIM on sight.

 

This ^

A hundred times this.

I read the fluff on Draigo and vomited several times in my mouth because each paragraph was more sickening than the next.

You might as well just label him as a God and call it a day.

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"And Draigo carved his predecessor's name in Mortarion's heart. In a throwaway line. And he's thriving in the Warp without the aid of a Gellar field."

 

That sounds absolutely awesome! More of that, please! :)

 

I hope you are being sarcastic. A Marine carving ANYTHING on a primarch's ANYTHING? Thats just ridiculous! Damn Ward.

 

Pretty much.

I seriously laughed so hard when I read that.

Edit: Followed by convulsions.

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Please be assured, I'm not attempting to challenge you, but is it really considered trolling to express distaste for a particular codex author's writing style?

 

And I doubt I'll be buying the new rules. I'm a fluff gamer, the background is why I'm into the game, and seeing the way certain writers have been taking a leak over that aspect recently is moving me rapidly towards Jaded Old Longbeard territory.

Expression of distaste isn't the issue, it's more the nature in which it is done. Personally, I have no problem with someone saying something along the lines of "I'd really prefer it not to be ____, I'm not fond of some of their more recent work" which is entirely different feelwise from "_____ burned down our crops, stole our women, and brought ruin to our houses! Get your torches and pitchforks!" :lol:

 

Mostly I'd prefer to nip such things in the bud before disaster strikes so to speak... ;)

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Is it possible that the whole "Draigo carves his name into Mortarion's heart" thing is getting misinterpreted and overblown? Couldn't that phrase be meant metaphorically instead of literally? Like Draigo is instrumental to foiling one of Mortarion's plans and responsible for depleting his forces and/or damaging his reputation to such an extent that Mortarion remembers Draigo as a nemesis? It's not without precedence after all - M'Kachen goes out of his way to get revenge against Stern for banishing him.
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Is it possible that the whole "Draigo carves his name into Mortarion's heart" thing is getting misinterpreted and overblown? Couldn't that phrase be meant metaphorically instead of literally? Like Draigo is instrumental to foiling one of Mortarion's plans and responsible for depleting his forces and/or damaging his reputation to such an extent that Mortarion remembers Draigo as a nemesis? It's not without precedence after all - M'Kachen goes out of his way to get revenge against Stern for banishing him.

No. For one, it says Draigo carved his predecessor's name on Mortarion's heart, the name of a man who was already dead at Mortarion's hand. Also, Mortarion treats the act of carving this name in his heart as itself an insult, a statement which makes no sense if it is only a metaphor for a prior insult.

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If we are honest with ourselves... If this pdf had appeared on the internet without any rumour or lead up to it... we would have laughed it off quicker than that Blood Angels Fraudex ever got found out.

 

This is high school level fanfiction. It is SO badly written it is embarrassing.

 

And the rules are pretty daft as well. If the codex is somehow balanced and competitive it will be more luck than judgement, and based on a playstyle/build they never intended.

 

I like Combat Squadded Terminator Troops though. I do indeed.

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Am I the only one sensing an "irresistible force meets immovable object" trend here? :) I guess the fluff is pretty hit or miss. I for one, don't like it that much were special characters are concerned, but then again I really prefer "generic" HQs.

 

Phil

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