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Vanguard Veterans loadout


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#51
Black Blow Fly

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I used to use several stormshields in the VV... now with the exception of the sergeant they are all just armed to kill... drop in, destroy a unit - that is it. It works well and I think VV are one of the best units we have.

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#52
VAGABOND

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Heres my VV unit loadout. :D

1 Vanguard Veteran Squad
Jump Packs
4 Power Weapons, 4 Storm Shields
(Sergeant) Lightning Claw, Storm Shield
Ryan ''Point, Click, Kill'' Stevenson

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#53
marine77

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My big issue with VV is the justification for their points. If they cost as much as they do, then they need duality. They need a way to handle infantry and tanks. So, I find it almost a must to equip them with at least a powerfist so that they can't be tarpitted by a dread or some such. That makes them really expensive.
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#54
Deschenus Maximus

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4 Power Weapons, 4 Storm Shields


Why not 4 claws? You're not getting the +1 A anyways.

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#55
Gv0zD

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My big issue with VV is the justification for their points. If they cost as much as they do, then they need duality. They need a way to handle infantry and tanks. So, I find it almost a must to equip them with at least a powerfist so that they can't be tarpitted by a dread or some such. That makes them really expensive.

I'd say at least one TH should be taken for 10 vv. It's not nesessery to take PF or TH for every 5 men, but having one 5-man squad that can reduce I to 1 is a valuable asset.

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#56
spu00sed

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I have a unit of 5 in my sang guard army. Due to aesthetic reasons none of my models have a hammer or powerfist (doesn’t seem angelic to me).

As such my VVs are a soak unit, designed to pin any walker that might rip apart a sang guard unit. So they are armed as follows:

Sgt-JP: Glavie and Shields
VV-JP: Lightning claw, shield and meltabomb
VV-JP: Lightning claw, shield and meltabomb
VV-JP: Lightning claw, shield and meltabomb
VV-JP: Lightning claw, shield and meltabomb

The meltabombs are so they have a chance at hurting walkers and tanks, whilst the shields mean they will survive as the only 3+ save unit in the list they would have attracted a lot of AP3 firepower.
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#57
VAGABOND

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4 Power Weapons, 4 Storm Shields


Why not 4 claws? You're not getting the +1 A anyways.


I didn't even think of that, just means I've got cutting and glueing to do.

Thanks mate :rolleyes:

Edited by VAGABOND, 19 April 2011 - 10:27 AM.

Ryan ''Point, Click, Kill'' Stevenson

Adeptus Custodes: Kicking heretic ass!
Purifiers: Kill it, kill it with fire!
Deathwing: 2+ 3++ is the new black
Necrons: French Liberation!

Best Dark Angels Player, Warhammer 40k Throne of Skulls GT, October 2011, Heat 1
Overall Winner, Warhammer 40k Intrepidations Tournament, November 2011
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#58
Deschenus Maximus

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4 Power Weapons, 4 Storm Shields


Why not 4 claws? You're not getting the +1 A anyways.


I didn't even think of that, just means mean I've got cutting and glueing to do.

Thanks mate :huh:


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#59
VAGABOND

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I've had some pretty good luck with my VV in 2 friendly games against a Dark Eldar player in my first game and managing to wipe out a big squad of Incubi and chase the Archaon down in 1 single round. During the 2nd game against a Grey Knight player I wiped out a Strike Squad, Purgation Squad and 4 Paladins in 3 turns.

Yeah that unit definitely made their points back in both those games, get in! ;)
Ryan ''Point, Click, Kill'' Stevenson

Adeptus Custodes: Kicking heretic ass!
Purifiers: Kill it, kill it with fire!
Deathwing: 2+ 3++ is the new black
Necrons: French Liberation!

Best Dark Angels Player, Warhammer 40k Throne of Skulls GT, October 2011, Heat 1
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Best Army, Best Grey Knight Player, 2nd Position overall & 1st Place for Glasgow Team @ Warhammer 40k Border Skirmish, February 2012
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#60
Demoulius

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ran a unit of 8 with dual LCS (sarg), PW and PF mounted in a SR with anti infantry weapons ;)

the unit itself worked wonders but i dident support them properly :( so most of the times they were overwhelmed... a path but boy did they carve a path through the enemy before going down :P

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#61
Gv0zD

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They are ndeed capable of such things! They may be a bit expensive, but their return is even higher. I've played a few games against my freind's tau battlesuit army. I love seeing him stunned when his Crisis and Broadsides get pwned by turn 3... "Not again!" is all he says :cuss

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#62
Elsven

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I agree with keeping the points down on VV however with so many monstrous creatures and power weapons out there it is nice to have the security of a 3+ to ensure the valuable things stay alive. This is why would would suggest the following setup.

Sargent TH or PF and SS
3 LC and SS
6 vanilla

The total cost on this is 450/455, the thunder hammer will be effective at taking out vehicles and dealing with monstrous creatures but also keeps the points low. Also this ensure your units that count stay alive to fight another day.

Elsven
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#63
Mike the Zealous

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Hmm. Well, for my 2000 pt list i run a 10 man VV squad w/ 4 PW, 4 M, 1 PF & 1 TH at roughly 430 points.

Ive generally stayed away from SS due to the fact that the VV were expensive enough, and they were really only supposed to provide interference for the rest of the DOA army to drop down and assault next turn. (VV at 10 men should be Combat Squadded for full lethality)

Sure, you can make a VV squad longer lasting with the SS, but you would really pay through the teeth for the squad, when the usage of VV as a early massacre squad gives the rest of the DOA army the precious turn it needs to set up for the inevitable assault. With VV, you want to kill what you hit in the turn you charge it, preferably killing the target before it can hit back via FC. Then you lose the VV most of the time from the enemies' response.

(IMO) I see a DOA list as being as much aggression as you can fit in the list; in truth, if the VV do their job right they shouldnt need the SS in the first place, cuz their target will be lying in the dust before they know what hit them.

For your guys, id prolly go like this:
Sarge w/TH
CCW with MB
CCW w/ BP
PW w/MB
PW w/ BP

220 points total

#64
Gv0zD

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To avoid such response keep a squad of SG behind your VV, so they were able to finish off what VV were harassing and let them switch to another squad :confused:

As for SS, I don't use them in VV, as they increase their cost but add no killiness. Keeping VV in HtH will prevent them being shot, while they rock in CC.

I find SS most useful in plasma HG, who suffer return fire and are unable to engage in HtH.

Edited by Gv0zD, 22 April 2011 - 05:12 AM.

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#65
VAGABOND

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If you charge the correct units and position Priests for Fc then normally you have a good chance of taking a squad out and making their points back.
Ryan ''Point, Click, Kill'' Stevenson

Adeptus Custodes: Kicking heretic ass!
Purifiers: Kill it, kill it with fire!
Deathwing: 2+ 3++ is the new black
Necrons: French Liberation!

Best Dark Angels Player, Warhammer 40k Throne of Skulls GT, October 2011, Heat 1
Overall Winner, Warhammer 40k Intrepidations Tournament, November 2011
Best Army, Best Grey Knight Player, 2nd Position overall & 1st Place for Glasgow Team @ Warhammer 40k Border Skirmish, February 2012
2nd Place for Glasgow Team & 5th Position overall @ Chaos Of The Warp 2, March 2012

#66
Elsven

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To avoid such response keep a squad of SG behind your VV, so they were able to finish off what VV were harassing and let them switch to another squad :)

As for SS, I don't use them in VV, as they increase their cost but add no killiness. Keeping VV in HtH will prevent them being shot, while they rock in CC.

I find SS most useful in plasma HG, who suffer return fire and are unable to engage in HtH.


Well when you play as many Tyranids and Demons as I do, you learn to love the the awesomeness of a 3+ invulnerable save. Even with me running hammers and PF's in every squad, the 4+ attacks , 4+ toughness, high initiative, and 4+ wounds get you every time.

Elsven

Edited by Elsven, 22 April 2011 - 04:06 PM.

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#67
Gv0zD

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Well, I was concentrated on MEQ recently, but if playing vs hordes, SS will surely help a lot. Once again we face the necessity of being adaptive to the opponent's army. But, to tell the truth, I would rather take mech list with lots of shootiness against hordes.

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#68
Freman Bloodglaive

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Although I'm a codex marine player, so not exactly in the same boat (DoA makes VV good for BA, while for SM they're only so-so) I would say that a reasonable unit.

Sergeant, power weapon
Veteran, power weapon
Veteran, power fist
Veteran, storm shield
Veteran, storm shield
All with jump packs 245 points for Codex Marines, 255? for Blood Angels.

Although the lightning claw is a better weapon than the power weapon, in this configuration I'm going for more dice to throw to balance my abysmal dice rolling. I know the glaive is a signature weapon for the Blood Angels, but one re-roll to hit is less effective than rolling an additional dice as a regular power weapon does. Most commentators have acknowledged this in giving the Sergeant a lightning claw rather than a glaive. In combat power weapon attacks are taken on the storm shields, two giving a fairly good chance of soaking up even a dreadknight's attacks, although obviously they'd be ineffective against a full squad of Grey Knights. In a Codex army I could give the sergeant a relic blade, which is nice because outside HQs and Honour Guard (not to be confused with Blood Angel honour guard) it's the only unit in the Space Marines who can get a relic blade.
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#69
Cpt. Blood Donator

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ran a unit of 8 with dual LCS (sarg), PW and PF mounted in a SR with anti infantry weapons :)

the unit itself worked wonders but i dident support them properly :( so most of the times they were overwhelmed... a path but boy did they carve a path through the enemy before going down ;)


Sounds all kinds of stupid to me from cost-perspective.

#70
Elsven

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Although I'm a codex marine player, so not exactly in the same boat (DoA makes VV good for BA, while for SM they're only so-so) I would say that a reasonable unit.

Sergeant, power weapon
Veteran, power weapon
Veteran, power fist
Veteran, storm shield
Veteran, storm shield
All with jump packs 245 points for Codex Marines, 255? for Blood Angels.

Although the lightning claw is a better weapon than the power weapon, in this configuration I'm going for more dice to throw to balance my abysmal dice rolling. I know the glaive is a signature weapon for the Blood Angels, but one re-roll to hit is less effective than rolling an additional dice as a regular power weapon does. Most commentators have acknowledged this in giving the Sergeant a lightning claw rather than a glaive. In combat power weapon attacks are taken on the storm shields, two giving a fairly good chance of soaking up even a dreadknight's attacks, although obviously they'd be ineffective against a full squad of Grey Knights. In a Codex army I could give the sergeant a relic blade, which is nice because outside HQs and Honour Guard (not to be confused with Blood Angel honour guard) it's the only unit in the Space Marines who can get a relic blade.


This is why LC's are so good, statistically you will get 50% of your hits threw on anything that is less than toughness 9 (witch is almost everything). Then you will be re-rolling your wounds, if the thing your attacking is a MC with toughness 6 you will be re-rolling almost all of your dice. If you attacking a space marine then you re-rolling a quarter of your dice (That would be an extra attack each). The beauty of LC's is that the tougher the unit is the better your LC's are going to do, making this unit a hammer unit. If you put in storm shields, FNP, and heroic intervention in them they get survivability (just don't add IC's to the squad use your bubbles). Trust me, the more I use this unit the more I love them, they are a death star unit that you can keep in reserve, safe from being shot at for a few rounds. However just keep in mind you are rolling dice to bring them in so make sure you have other stuff on the table to tie things up until then.
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#71
SemperAstartes

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Okay forgive the noob question I have tried search and had little success, I have just got hold of 20 VV and want to get them going. I am unable to find a reference that details the deepstrike scatter dice for VV,
Do Blood Angel Vanguard Veterans benefit from DOA 1D6 scatter dice rules when deployed from deepstrike?
I know that a character attached negates the HI rule but I have found no reference to VV DOA.

If you encounter this issue how do you deal with it ? VV on HI can't shoot or run so must be within 6 inches to assault when DSing?

#72
Cpt. Blood Donator

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Okay forgive the noob question I have tried search and had little success, I have just got hold of 20 VV and want to get them going. I am unable to find a reference that details the deepstrike scatter dice for VV,
Do Blood Angel Vanguard Veterans benefit from DOA 1D6 scatter dice rules when deployed from deepstrike?
I know that a character attached negates the HI rule but I have found no reference to VV DOA.

If you encounter this issue how do you deal with it ? VV on HI can't shoot or run so must be within 6 inches to assault when DSing?


Yes, says so under jump pack entry in wargear.

#73
Gv0zD

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Okay forgive the noob question I have tried search and had little success, I have just got hold of 20 VV and want to get them going. I am unable to find a reference that details the deepstrike scatter dice for VV,
Do Blood Angel Vanguard Veterans benefit from DOA 1D6 scatter dice rules when deployed from deepstrike?
I know that a character attached negates the HI rule but I have found no reference to VV DOA.

If you encounter this issue how do you deal with it ? VV on HI can't shoot or run so must be within 6 inches to assault when DSing?

As said, every model equipped with JumpPack benefits from DoA rule. As for deployment, I try to "land" within 4 inches from the target squad, so most of the time my VV get in assault range.

As for the discussion about LCs and PWs, I playtesed VV with LCs and I can say they're awesome, despite not getting additional attacks, re-rolls to wound are worth it. My two squads with 2 LCs and 1 TH each tear almost through everything. My regular vets with chainswords generate enough attacks to deal with hordes (which are larger in numbers, but weaker, so require no PW to be wounded effectively).

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#74
SemperAstartes

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As said, every model equipped with JumpPack benefits from DoA rule. As for deployment, I try to "land" within 4 inches from the target squad, so most of the time my VV get in assault range.

As for the discussion about LCs and PWs, I playtesed VV with LCs and I can say they're awesome, despite not getting additional attacks, re-rolls to wound are worth it. My two squads with 2 LCs and 1 TH each tear almost through everything. My regular vets with chainswords generate enough attacks to deal with hordes (which are larger in numbers, but weaker, so require no PW to be wounded effectively).


Thanks thats great to know :)

#75
Razmus

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My big issue with VV is the justification for their points. If they cost as much as they do, then they need duality. They need a way to handle infantry and tanks. So, I find it almost a must to equip them with at least a powerfist so that they can't be tarpitted by a dread or some such. That makes them really expensive.


I wandered this too... But after a while, I discovered that the ability to cause your opponent to be reactive was priceless. Also, why make them dual purpose? After all you get to choose what they assault. You should have other cheaper units that handle armored units better than VVs (I.e. MM attack bikes). PF or hammer is a must. At least one PW, LC, or glaive is a must (for initiative reasons).

Btw, love this thread!
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