IA: Sons of Pyron v6.0

[Ecritter]

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/ecritter/Space%20Marines/fireball3-2.png IA: Sons of Pyron - Knights of the Cleansing Flame

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/ecritter/Space%20Marines/sonsofpyron.png

Edited June 3, 2011 by Ecritter

[Ecritter]

With my Sons army being painted, I think its time to get back to work on my favorite Chapter. As aways, C&C welcome.

[Generating Random Name...]

I like it, really unique. Not much to say apart from that in the "Time of Mourning" section is beliefs mourn is spellt wrong:

Duty seldom allows the Sons to morn in peace

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I like it, really unique. Not much to say apart from that in the "Time of Mourning" section is beliefs mourn is spellt wrong:

Duty seldom allows the Sons to morn in peace

 

I know it's unintentional, but I find the emphasised bit humourous :P

[Generating Random Name...]

Hush, I was just referencing a kind of flour for him...

[Dinks]

You still spelt it wrong then, its Spelt. :P

 

Nice IA Ecritter, i really like the colour scheme as well, the models you are having commissioned look fantastic!

Edited February 26, 2011 by Dinks

[Generating Random Name...]

In the harsh lands of Scotland we take all the Ls (And Cs and Hs) we can get even if they are in the wrong place...

 

On topic:

Is it me or do they have an overlarge fleet?

Edited February 26, 2011 by Generating Random Name...

[Ecritter]

Thanks for finding the spelling error, its fixed now.

 

Fleet is inline with C:SM standards ... considering they are now a crusading Chapter with no homeworld.

 

I'm very happy with how the Termie Squad has turned out, got 2 Tactical Squads waiting to be painted now. My prize will be the Chaplain, I'm kitbashing him myself ... well I'm organizing the parts, Dave80y will still be doing the gluing and painting.

Edited February 26, 2011 by Ecritter

[Generating Random Name...]

Fleet is inline with C:SM standards ... considering they are now a crusading Chapter with no homeworld.

 

So did they have these ships all along, or have to requesition them from the AdMech?

 

I'm very happy with how the Termie Squad has turned out, got 2 Tactical Squads waiting to be painted now. My prize will be the Chaplain, I'm kitbashing him myself ... well I'm organizing the parts, Dave80y will still be doing the gluing and painting.

The paintjobs are sweet, does justice to the fluff :)

[Ecritter]

Fleet is inline with C:SM standards ... considering they are now a crusading Chapter with no homeworld.

 

So did they have these ships all along, or have to requesition them from the AdMech?

 

Most likely not, some would have been added in the 3000 years since the loss of Pyron.

[Generating Random Name...]

Kk, well, like I said I can't find anything else. :)

[Darkchild130]

This is nice, I like the idea of the Matriachal society and the Eugenics, suits a warrior race like the Astartes very well.

 

Darkchild

[strongbow]

Fleet is inline with C:SM standards ... considering they are now a crusading Chapter with no homeworld.

 

So did they have these ships all along, or have to requesition them from the AdMech?

 

Most likely not, some would have been added in the 3000 years since the loss of Pyron.

 

Might be worth including that if you haven't already in the IA itself, so if anyone else wonders they can find an answer.

 

Nice work ;)

[Ecritter]

Might be worth including that if you haven't already in the IA itself, so if anyone else wonders they can find an answer.

 

Nice work :)

 

Done.

[Astartes Consul]

Very nice, original, well laid out, not much more too add!

 

Acctualy, I'd personaly suggest a slightly larger 'Founding' section, thats my own personal preference, but apart from that everything is top notch :)

 

Peace

[Ecritter]

Very nice, original, well laid out, not much more too add!

 

Actualy, I'd personaly suggest a slightly larger 'Founding' section, thats my own personal preference, but apart from that everything is top notch :unsure:

 

Peace

 

Well, other then setting the time of their inception and from what Chapter they're drawn I don't see the Founding as adding much to the overall Chapter personality. That is why I kept is short.

 

Any other comments?

[Astartes Consul]

True, true. I didn't make myself clear enough I think, I sort of meant maybe merging the founding and history sections in 'Origins' or something, from a personal point of view I think it reads slightly better (and its what I've done writing IAs). But like I said, the content itself I can;t think of anything to say. :)

[Ecritter]

Concerns from previous post with replies.

 

Their home world lost to flames, the Sons of Pyron crusade to rid the Imperium of Man of all manner of savage, impure, beasts. Not satisfied to simply drive Chaos from their beloved Imperium, the Sons strive to cleanse it with holy fire. They have pledged to burn all that stand against Holy Terra. Where the fire strikes next, only time can tell.

 

I'd say this is laying it on a bit thick, as well as foreshadowing events that we have no plausible reason to know about at this point in the writeup.

 

* Its the first paragraph, anything I say is going to be the first time you hear it. Also, everything alluded to is answered in the body of the IA.

 

We get that you want to invoke the imagery and concept of fire, and not only that but of the cleansing and purifying nature that it's ascribed by a large number of societies and belief systems. That being said, having your Chapter come from a world that's been destroyed by fire and calling them something involving the Latin stem "pyr" is about as subtle as making a Chapter called the Ultramarines blue and then writing them in as some kind of exemplary spiritual guide for all others.

 

* The original colonists of Pyron found a planet dominated by volcanoes. Its not hard to believe they named it after its major feather. Subtle or not, it fits.

 

On top of that, the opening paragraph is clumsy and a little too modern in its presentation. There's also the minor matter of invoking "love" as a motivation for giant, gene-engineered killing machines. I'm willing to believe many things about the Astartes, but it's going to take more than that to engender the concept that what they do is anything but iron-clad, drilled-into-the-soul duty.

 

* Not hard at all to believe that Space Marines 'love the Imperium, the Emperor or their Chapter. Love has many meanings after all.

 

The Imperium of Man suffered great losses in the 35th Millennium. In response to the ever growing threat of Chaos and the great losses suffered by Imperial forces, the High Lords of Terra ordered several foundings to replenish the dwindling numbers of the Adeptus Astartes. Under these orders, the Adeptus Mechanicus set about to organize and institute these foundings.

 

So great that they had to doubly refer to those losses in two sentences?

 

* Fixed

 

What's so terrible about M35, in any case? The worst of the Age of Apostasy came afterwards, the Black Crusades are bad but largely a regional event and happen over a period of millenia, the Tyrranids had yet to show up, the Tau were basically evolutionarily stuck, the Necrons either kept to themselves or hadn't been discovered yet... Of course there were threats, but what exactly are you going to base your assertion of "dwindling" Astartes upon?

 

* What's so bad … canon data says there were 9 Foundings in M35, more then any other time period. Since Foundings are only made to replace losses of Space Marine Chapter, and its my understanding that they don't do a Founding to replace a single Chapter but at least a few. That says that there were a lot of Chapters lost in M35.

 

As part of the 17th Founding, the Mortifactors were given the high honor of siring a new chapter of Space Marines. A training cadre was assembled and sent to the volcanic death world of Pyron. There they began the long process of turning the worthy few into Angels of Death, defenders of the Imperium.

 

The Mortifactors? Really? A highly divergent Chapter with some seriously deviant cult activity is going to be chosen to be the source of a newly founded one, when there are far more public, open, and unquestioned bodies to draw from?

 

* No long Mortifactors

 

Aside from your insistence on a fire theme, what gives us the reason for choosing a volcanic deathworld as the basis for recruitment? This is a fiat declaration with next to no supporting material. Why is it decided that a volcanic world, in particular, is going to provide men who will become the kind of aspirants that are necessary to creating worthy Marines? What does the world offer that couldn't be attained elsewhere, other than an association with pyroclastic violence?

 

* A hardy people that have had to struggle to survive since sometime in the Age of Strife … I'd say that sets them apart from most worlds and makes them more then good candidates

.

 

When rediscovered, Pyron was mined out and had little to offer to the Imperium. To the Mortifactors, however, Pyron appeared to have everything a chapter of Space Marines needed. The surface was dotted with volcanoes spewing forth noxious gasses. These gases made life on the surface impossible, and the hard life in the numerous man-made subterranean chambers and tunnels of the old mines made of a population of stout and industrious people. Perfect candidates for recruitment.

 

Saying something doesn't necessarily make it so.

 

* When its backed up with proper thinking it does.

 

What would the Mortifactors, a Chapter drawn from feral cannibals known for their extreme violence and eating of the dead, recently orphaned from their homeworld and operating from a space station, see in a volcano-strewn planet of dubious stability? The struggle against sudden, unreasoning death in the darkness gives you an angle of approach, but that doesn't necessarily translate to great performance in war. Someone who can understand the behavior of tectonic shifts, magma chambers, clastic explosions, and so on possesses a skillset, but that doesn't mean that he's going to be able to learn to be an Astartes, just that he's good at not dying in a particular environment.

 

* Mortifactors gone. And this situation makes them as worthy as any other candidates from any other world.

 

For a more pointed question, how is it that life is possible at all if the gasses are what make the surface unlivable? Either the people you're drawing from are civilized enough to maintain atmospheric processors (implying Mechanicus involvement or pre-Imperial societies), there's an arcane chemical or biological explanation for it, or this is just being handwaved away for the purpose of, once again, the connection to fire.

 

* Changed slightly.

 

For reasons long forgotten, the Pyronites had developed as a Matriarchal Society. Perhaps, in times long past, through combat or plague, the number, and in turn dominance, of men had faltered and fallen. For centuries women had ruled the different clans residing on Pyron and peace, at least internally, had been the result. The clans worked together to provide for the Pyronites, and in time of invasion, worked together for protection. Pyron itself was a brutal world and living was very difficult, but the Pyronites survived through these clan interactions.

 

Ah, right. So women take over and it's all going to be much more peaceful than when men are running things? Could you be a little less stereotypical in the portrayal of matriarchal societies?

 

* Its called a plot device.

 

The "we don't know why" angle is also a bit convenient and smacks of an idea you don't want to have to justify, rather than something natural or mysterious.

 

* Its also a commonly used plot device that works. After 20,000 years is anyone really gonna remember, does not seem far fetched.

 

When the training cadre arrived, the Pyronites saw them as a new round of invaders and their hearts were filled with suspicion and fear. They hid themselves from these huge armored men as they had the Orks that had plagued them for centuries.

 

...what Orks?

 

This is the first mention of greenskins, who are pervasive and insidious enough foe that they'd probably rate a mention in the earlier portion of the article. Hell, we ought to be hearing how they were gotten rid of and how the Pyronites managed to survive the ensuring time - years, decades, centuries, or more? - without being torn apart, crushed, exploded, or otherwise subjected to the brutal appetites and whims of a WAAAAGH! Proper.

 

* Mentioned earlier now.

 

Also, how had your mystery clans of peace-loving tunnel rats managed to survive against the sheer numbers that are the outcome of an unopposed Ork presence?

 

* Answered

 

But they did no move on.

 

Ah, so you're Scottish now.

 

In time, the Pyronites became bolder and, slowly at first, they began to make contact with the Space Marines. As the marines scouted and studied the local inhabitants, the Pyronites also gathered information on the universe around them. Tales of the Emperor, the Space Marines and the Imperium spread like wildfire through the population. Not only were they to know the protection the Space Marines would provide from the savage ones, what the Pyronites called the Orks that had plagued them for centuries, but their young would have the chance to join the Space Marines. A chance to have a better life then the hard one forced on them by Pyron and to become more than mortal seemed a great opportunity.

 

Clumsy, trite, and sloppy.

 

Why would the Pyronites trust one group of large, bellicose, threatening figures more than they would any other? Do they even speak Imperial Gothic of any flavor and, if not, how are they communicating? Where did the tipping point come, when the enormous Astartes went from intrusive and distrusted objects of fear to miraculous saviors, why did it happen, and how many such events did it take to change their minds?

 

* Trusting humans, even large ones is easier then trusting a Orks. Also, read the entire section and you'll see that its already been explained.

 

Also, the orks are "plaguing" in two paragraphs running, and you seem to like "chance" a lot.

 

Only the strongest, smartest and most able could join and have a chance to become a part of the Chapter now to be known as the Sons of Pyron. Working with the Pyronite Elders, the games were established as an initial test for recruitment. They involved tests of strength, stamina and intelligence and would be difficult for most adults to complete, but only the young would take part in these games.

 

So this fearsome, female-dominated clan of survivalists is going to allow strangers to take away their boys and young men on the vague promise that they'll become something better, while leaving the best of their young women behind? Sounds like a profound shame and a reason for resentment more than something to be encouraged and celebrated, especially in a society of entrenched matriarchy that places women above men in all things.

 

How do you excuse this sudden and complete change of cultural heart?

 

* Taken away where? They are giving them a better life then the constant struggle to live that they've had forced on them until now.

 

Although the games and normal recruitment of boys remained the only way for the Sons to grow to a full chapter with any relative speed, Master Heronus began to put his idea to the test. If it succeeded, it would give the Sons an option no other chapter had, and if it failed it could easily be ended with no harm done. Heronus began taking worthy girls from the games into the growing number within the Sons training program. These girls would be taught combat, both hand to hand and ship to ship, and someday man the Sons' fleet of ships.

 

"Ladies, can't be one of us, but you can have secondary jobs and if you're really, really good, we'll let you have babies with men who also fail to meet the criteria. Doesn't that sound great?"

 

If the Games were an insult, this is the injury being piled atop it.

 

* Yes …. if. Then again if not, its perfectly fine.

 

A small Imperial task force had responded to the call for aide only to find Pyron in flames, its surface covered in molten lava. Messages intercepted from the fleeing Orks claimed the planet itself had pushed them back. Rather then fall into the hands of the savage ones, Pyron's volcanoes had all erupted at once. All that remained was a lifeless planet. The task force pursued the Orks, leaving only the cruiser to guard till the Sons return.

 

First, it's "aid." That is, unless they were specifically wanting an assistant and not warriors to help in their defense.

 

Secondly, this compeltely beggars belief. The planet chose to explode to cleanse itself of Orks, but only after the arrival of Astartes who had begun that job on their own? I realize that it's possible this is just the way that the Sons chose to view what happened but, if not, it's pretty hackneyed and not really satisfying at all.

 

* No one said the planet exploded to kill the Orks, only that the Sons saw it that way.

 

The Sons returned to Ryntor Secundus, having taken note of it in their pursuit. The small planet was covered by lush grasslands and freshwater seas, it also swarmed with large reptilian creatures. The humans tribes of the grasslands had reverted to roughly Stone Age technology and hunted the reptiles for food. The Sons found it to be suitable for recruitment, and lay claim to the planet.

 

As above... What is it that makes the planet so suitable for recruitment? You don't tell us anything that gives us an idea of why the aspirants drawn from any of your sources would be worth anything more than those taken from another world.

 

* I don't know, living with Raptor-like creatures that try to eat you at the same time you're trying to eat them … makes for good candidates. And beside no one said they were superior, just acceptable.

 

The 5th Company discovered the Feudal World of Ulrati while searching for Orks. The numerous kingdoms were at constant war with each other, making for a large warrior population suitable for recruitment in the Games.

 

This, finally, makes some sense.

 

The Sons did little to reform the warlike nature of the native inhabitants, they only claimed the mountain and valley below and forbade any fighting between the kingdoms on their lands. When their Mountain Fortress was complete, the Sons sent out proclamations to all the kingdoms announcing the Games. Warriors from all the kingdoms travel to the Games, competing in combat to win favor of the Sons and the chance to lay with the Daughters.

 

Would it not be worth noting that these kingdoms are fielding child-warriors for some unknown reason? After all, the aspirants can only be accepted if they're below a certain age, which means that the most successful warriors are likely far too old to allow implantation.

 

* If you read the IA, you'll notice that the Sons don't take Children anymore.

 

Aspirants that fail the tests to become Space Marines are considered impure and slain. The surviving Sons would become exceptional Space Marines and the Daughters would be the sisters and mothers of future generations of the chapter, as well as manning the fleet of the Sons of Pyron.

 

This is completely at odds with your Chapter's earlier insistence on taking female participants along and being humane to the Pyronites, though it does sound considerably more like the way I would expect a Chapter descended from the Mortifactors to act. Speaking of... Where's their influence in all of this, or was the addition just for name recognition?

 

* Happens in history, you can be humane and loving and at the same time cold and brutal.

 

The Sons of Pyron are quick to show compassion to other humans but equally as quick to crush the savage aliens and any that stand against the Imperium when they are encountered. They strive by their actions to mirror the purity of the Emperor. They also believe that sacrificing oneself for purity, as Pyron did, is a most honorable death. The Sons do not allow compromise on this matter, one is pure or one is to be cleansed.

 

You manage to contradict yourself within a single paragraph.

 

Either they're compassionate or they're zealots, it's pretty difficult to have it both ways. An awful lot of what makes us human in the first place is the very impurity that they're seeking to stamp out, the tarnish and blemishes that give us character and allow us to exist in a world that often isn't about absolutes. Normal human beings would fail miserably to live up to the exacting and uncomplicated moral code that you're setting them up to possess, denying the compassion that you've tried to include but which contrasts and clashes awfully with both the descent of the Chapter and its actions.

 

* No contradiction at all, history gives us several good example of this very thing.

 

Having a nemesis that is anything but pure, not animal nor plant, has led the Sons to despise any form of impurity or alien.

 

Do I have to point it out?

 

Only the Cleansing Flame can remove the taint of Chaos and impurity. Whole populations under suspicion have found themselves facing the Cleansing Flame at the hands of the Sons of Pyron. Their fervent burning of the impure has made them a favored Chapter of Inquisitors desiring to see worlds cleansed by flame.

 

Ah, yes. Very humanitarian of them.

 

* If you believe that the only way to purify them is to burn them, then yes you are doing them a favor by lighting them up.

 

Recruitment for the Sons has been refined to the point of perfection. Recruits are no longer found, they are bred and trained from birth to be ultimate warriors. Children born to the Daughters of Pyron are closely examined upon birth for any defect, physical or mental. Failed aspirants and those found impure are slain lest the impurity spread.

 

I realise that I don't have a trademark on eugenics and Space Marines, but... Really?

 

Also, see immediately above on the subject of mercy and compassion.

 

* And see my comments earlier as well, you can be both.

[Argon]

I like it, really unique. Not much to say apart from that in the "Time of Mourning" section is beliefs mourn is spellt wrong:

Duty seldom allows the Sons to morn in peace

 

I know it's unintentional, but I find the emphasised bit humourous :lol:

 

 

Muphry strikes again!

[Eryx_UK]

Really good concept and I like how you have written them up. Nice job. ;)

[strongbow]

* Happens in history, you can be humane and loving and at the same time cold and brutal.

* No contradiction at all, history gives us several good example of this very thing.

 

An example to explain what you mean would be helpful. I think I know what you mean but some elaboration would be good.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Recruitment for the Sons has been refined to the point of perfection. Recruits are no longer found, they are bred and trained from birth to be ultimate warriors. Children born to the Daughters of Pyron are closely examined upon birth for any defect, physical or mental. Failed aspirants and those found impure are slain lest the impurity spread.

 

The Sons of Pyron are quick to show compassion to other humans but equally as quick to crush the savage aliens and any that stand against the Imperium when they are encountered. They strive by their actions to mirror the purity of the Emperor. They also believe that sacrificing oneself for purity, as Pyron did, is a most honorable death. The Sons do not allow compromise on this matter, one is pure or one is to be cleansed.

 

Now, the person commenting on the issue regarding their attitude to impurity and their humanitarian side has a point.

 

If you apply for the Sons (or are bred to join them), this would presumably mean that you're pretty good/better than your average chap.

 

If you fail despite this, your chapter chooses to kill them, deeming them impure. In fairness, the process does very often kill aspirants anyway. However, your guys choose to kill those that live and still fail, because they are supposedly impure.

 

If these better-than-average people are thus impure, then surely all other normal people, not good enough to become space marines are even more impure and therefore by the exacting standards of the chapter should be killed as well?

 

Surely a humanitarian chapter would have a better way of dealing with failed aspirants? Even if they just became servitors?

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Only the strongest, smartest and most able could join and have a chance to become a part of the Chapter now to be known as the Sons of Pyron. Working with the Pyronite Elders, the games were established as an initial test for recruitment. They involved tests of strength, stamina and intelligence and would be difficult for most adults to complete, but only the young would take part in these games. ((original IA text))

 

So this fearsome, female-dominated clan of survivalists is going to allow strangers to take away their boys and young men on the vague promise that they'll become something better, while leaving the best of their young women behind? Sounds like a profound shame and a reason for resentment more than something to be encouraged and celebrated, especially in a society of entrenched matriarchy that places women above men in all things.

 

How do you excuse this sudden and complete change of cultural heart? ((comment by someone))

 

* Taken away where? They are giving them a better life then the constant struggle to live that they've had forced on them until now. ((your response))

 

Your society doesn't sound like a trusting one, perhaps you should go into more detail over why and how the natives were persuaded to do this? To what extent would they really trust the newcomers? A native, relatively feral tribe I would imagine is normally scared by space marines into giving recruits. In this case they are voluntarily submitted to the games. Why the difference. I would also imagine that once space marines have landed on a planet they're in a hurry to get started, this whole thing about gaining the trust of the natives sounds very long-winded. Are you saying that their humanitarian side gave them patience? Would the rules of the imperium allow them the extra time to get started?

 

Also, becoming a Space Marine is nothing if not a 'constant struggle'. Training and life are incredibly tough and disciplined. I would imagine they're being 'taken away' to the fortress monastery to get trained and most likely not see much if any of their family again. The leaders are trusting the space marines with their children. Not being funny, but your average Battle Brother Titus isn't exactly Mary Poppins.

 

I gather that the people are very proud of their planet. They don't know any different. Not only does it make it look like they're miserable, but also see the chapter as a cop-out of sorts, to get away from their 'constant struggle'.

 

Do you see what I mean?

 

I'm sure it all makes sense to you but what you need to do is answer many of these questions in the IA. I'm sure it can work but you just need to elaborate so that when people read it they don't finish wondering about things. It should all make sense and any questions a reader may have at the start should be answered by the end. It clearly makes sense to you so try to make it make sense to the reader in the IA itself. It's good work :D.

[NightrawenII]

Hi, Ecritter. Long time no see... :devil:

 

Founding

In response to the ever growing threat of Chaos and the great losses suffered by Imperial forces, the High Lords of Terra ordered several foundings to replenish the dwindling numbers of the Adeptus Astartes.

- Possibly incorrect. It's dubious, whether there was already 1,000 Chapters in existence or not. I would say no and the increased number of Foundings was simply part of the Forging.

- To be honest, I find it amusing how many people places turmoil and chaos in the period of Golden Age of Imperium. M35 is after that and it's the time of two Empires, but still. -_-

 

As part of the 17th Founding, the Justicars were given the high honor of siring a new chapter of Space Marines.

- Who are Justicars?

 

A training cadre was assembled and sent to the volcanic world of Pyron. There they began the long process of turning the worthy few into Angels of Death, defenders of the Imperium.

- According to article about Cursed Founding, the new Chapters are created and trained in the Founding Facility. After reaching the operational strenght, the Chapter is released into Universe.

 

Home World

It was only the hostile environment of Pyron that kept the beasts from making Pyron a permanent Ork world.

- If the humans managed to survive, then it is safe to assume that the Orks could survive too. Orks are 'ard and cunning. Don't underestimate these beast.

 

The surface was dotted with volcanoes spewing forth noxious gasses. These gases made extended life on the surface near impossible, and the hard life in the numerous man-made subterranean chambers and tunnels of the old mines made of a population of stout and industrious people. Perfect candidates for recruitment.

- Volcanic activity means earthquakes. I somewhat doubt there will be underground mines in the first place, not to mention entire site of subterranean structures.

 

When rediscovered, the mines of Pyron had little left to offer to the Imperium.

- Questionable. Either the resources were mined out and thus there wouldn't be reason for miners to stay or the minning operations were interrupted by the Age of Strife. Pick one.

 

History

In time, the Pyronites became bolder and, slowly at first, they began to make contact with the Space Marines. As the marines scouted and studied the local inhabitants, the Pyronites also gathered information on the universe around them. Tales of the Emperor, the Space Marines and the Imperium spread like wildfire through the population.

- Why wasn't Pyron brought in the Imperium during the Great Crusade or after? We are in M35, the Imperium had enough time to establish contact with Pyron.

 

Not only were they to know the protection the Space Marines would provide from the savage ones, what the Pyronites called the Orks that had plundered their planet for centuries

- What exactly had Orks plundered on Volcanic World with little to no resources?

 

A chance to have a better life then the hard one forced on them by Pyron...

~

Life on Pyron was hard and always would be, but now there was at least a chance for something better.

You are joking, right? Life of Space Marine is not better, quite the contrary.

 

Only the strongest, smartest and most able could join and have a chance to become a part of the Chapter now to be known as the Sons of Pyron.

- This wording is little bit brain-hurting.

 

They involved tests of strength, stamina and intelligence and would be difficult for most adults to complete, but only the young would take part in these games.

- Again, brain-hurting wording of sentence.

 

As a concession to the Elders, both boys and girls would be allowed to compete in the games, though only the boys that performed well would be considered for recruitment.

- Why would be girls allowed to compete?

 

Nonetheless, the Pyronite girls found honor and took pride in simply competing and even outperforming some of the boys.

- We are here to defeat you. Of course our victory is absolutely meaningless, but we will feel better. :D

 

These girls would be taught combat, both hand to hand and ship to ship, and someday man the Sons' fleet of ships.

~

Winning for these men gave them the opportunity to lay with the Daughters of Pyron.

- Unlikely, or did you forget this is matriarchal society. Serving under men or being a prize in the tournament would be seen as insult.

 

The 36th through 38th Millenniums found the companies of the Sons spread through out two segmentums fighting the forces of Chaos.

- Only Chaos?

 

Messages intercepted from the fleeing Orks claimed the planet itself had pushed them back. Rather then fall into the hands of the savage ones, Pyron's volcanoes had all erupted at once. All that remained was a lifeless planet. The task force pursued the Orks, leaving only the cruiser to guard till the Sons return.

- Out of all possible ways of how to destroy planet, you have chosen this? :) It's like, "I can't think of plausible scenario, therefore Wizard did it!"

 

Dividing the Sons' into five new companies, each with reserves and scouts, the new Chapter Master sent them out with two distinct missions. First, to destroy the alien forces that had caused the death of their home world, and second, to cleanse other worlds as Pyron had done … with fire.

- Let's forget the teachings of Codex on spot and let's do it in entirely different and unproven way. Yeah, right. :down:

- Another (vain) attempt of We-don't-follow-Codex-organisation-because-we-got-mauled-in-history. :rolleyes:

 

Recruiting

They also eagerly take part in the Games to be allowed to lay with the new goddesses.

~

competing in combat to win favor of the Sons and the chance to lay with the Daughters.

~

the Daughters would be the sisters and mothers of future generations of the chapter, as well as manning the fleet of the Sons of Pyron.

- So the Daughters were turned into objects of sexual desire and breeding devices. Nice one. :tu:

- In addition, Why two recruiting worlds? Most Chapters is satisfied with one.

 

Beliefs

For the most part, the belief system of the Sons of Pyron was spawned, in one way or another, from Pyron, its sacrifice, and the savage ones that caused its destruction.

- We are talking about Chapter with more than 5,000 years of history. One event, even of such significance as loss of homeworld, is not going to be end of all belief.

 

++++++

Overall, I find this IA wanting. Don't get me wrong, you have some good ideas, the program of Daughters and Sons is interesting.... but you suck at explaining and foreshadowing. Sorry bro, but "Wizard did it!" is not plausible explanation for destruction of the planet. Practically everything in the belief section needs better justification.

- Why would Pyron's Sacrifice turns your marines into pyromaniacs?

- Why are they so obsessed with purity?

The reason, "because we lost our homeworld in fire... " is rather weak. It should be much, much deeper that this.

 

Second, you are wasting too much place and time with telling, not showing. For example, you talk a lot about hard and unforgiving life on Pyron. Yet, you fail to explain why is the life here so hard and unforgiving. It is Volcanic World... yeah we know that, and? Another example is society of Pyronites. We know about matriarchal structure, but that's all. On what tech-level they are or how they live is left unspoken.

IMHO, you should explore the planet and its inhabitant to full extent, instead of killing off Pyron in order to have a crutch for futher development and then having two additional un-developed worlds.

[Ecritter]

Thanks for the input. I've been up for 22 hours now ... so I'll hold on answering and adapting the IA till tomorrow. Till then ... "Burn them!"

[Ecritter]

* Happens in history, you can be humane and loving and at the same time cold and brutal.

* No contradiction at all, history gives us several good example of this very thing.

 

An example to explain what you mean would be helpful. I think I know what you mean but some elaboration would be good.

 

Let's see, American Indians (great enlightened society and at the same time cold and brutal against enemies); Nazi society (committed some of the worst attrocities in world history); Americans (nearly whipped out Native Americans, enslaved and experimented on those they considered 'lesser' races); Japanese (demonized enemies and treated them as such); list goes on and on.

 

Recruitment for the Sons has been refined to the point of perfection. Recruits are no longer found, they are bred and trained from birth to be ultimate warriors. Children born to the Daughters of Pyron are closely examined upon birth for any defect, physical or mental. Failed aspirants and those found impure are slain lest the impurity spread.

 

The Sons of Pyron are quick to show compassion to other humans but equally as quick to crush the savage aliens and any that stand against the Imperium when they are encountered. They strive by their actions to mirror the purity of the Emperor. They also believe that sacrificing oneself for purity, as Pyron did, is a most honorable death. The Sons do not allow compromise on this matter, one is pure or one is to be cleansed.

 

Now, the person commenting on the issue regarding their attitude to impurity and their humanitarian side has a point.

 

If you apply for the Sons (or are bred to join them), this would presumably mean that you're pretty good/better than your average chap.

 

If you fail despite this, your chapter chooses to kill them, deeming them impure. In fairness, the process does very often kill aspirants anyway. However, your guys choose to kill those that live and still fail, because they are supposedly impure.

 

If these better-than-average people are thus impure, then surely all other normal people, not good enough to become space marines are even more impure and therefore by the exacting standards of the chapter should be killed as well?

 

Surely a humanitarian chapter would have a better way of dealing with failed aspirants? Even if they just became servitors?

 

Based on Spartans. Worked with other Greek City-States without pushing their beliefs on them. Killed their own deformed children to 'spare' them. It was seen as more humane to kill them young. This is shown in Sons practices at birth and trials to become Space Marines.

 

Only the strongest, smartest and most able could join and have a chance to become a part of the Chapter now to be known as the Sons of Pyron. Working with the Pyronite Elders, the games were established as an initial test for recruitment. They involved tests of strength, stamina and intelligence and would be difficult for most adults to complete, but only the young would take part in these games. ((original IA text))

 

So this fearsome, female-dominated clan of survivalists is going to allow strangers to take away their boys and young men on the vague promise that they'll become something better, while leaving the best of their young women behind? Sounds like a profound shame and a reason for resentment more than something to be encouraged and celebrated, especially in a society of entrenched matriarchy that places women above men in all things.

 

How do you excuse this sudden and complete change of cultural heart? ((comment by someone))

 

* Taken away where? They are giving them a better life then the constant struggle to live that they've had forced on them until now.[/color] ((your response))

 

Your society doesn't sound like a trusting one, perhaps you should go into more detail over why and how the natives were persuaded to do this? To what extent would they really trust the newcomers? A native, relatively feral tribe I would imagine is normally scared by space marines into giving recruits. In this case they are voluntarily submitted to the games. Why the difference. I would also imagine that once space marines have landed on a planet they're in a hurry to get started, this whole thing about gaining the trust of the natives sounds very long-winded. Are you saying that their humanitarian side gave them patience? Would the rules of the imperium allow them the extra time to get started?

 

Also, becoming a Space Marine is nothing if not a 'constant struggle'. Training and life are incredibly tough and disciplined. I would imagine they're being 'taken away' to the fortress monastery to get trained and most likely not see much if any of their family again. The leaders are trusting the space marines with their children. Not being funny, but your average Battle Brother Titus isn't exactly Mary Poppins.

 

I gather that the people are very proud of their planet. They don't know any different. Not only does it make it look like they're miserable, but also see the chapter as a cop-out of sorts, to get away from their 'constant struggle'.

 

Do you see what I mean?

 

I'm sure it all makes sense to you but what you need to do is answer many of these questions in the IA. I'm sure it can work but you just need to elaborate so that when people read it they don't finish wondering about things. It should all make sense and any questions a reader may have at the start should be answered by the end. It clearly makes sense to you so try to make it make sense to the reader in the IA itself. It's good work :).

 

I'll work on better explaining this part.

 

Hi, Ecritter. Long time no see... :devil:

 

Founding

In response to the ever growing threat of Chaos and the great losses suffered by Imperial forces, the High Lords of Terra ordered several foundings to replenish the dwindling numbers of the Adeptus Astartes.

 

Possibly incorrect. It's dubious, whether there was already 1,000 Chapters in existence or not. I would say no and the increased number of Foundings was simply part of the Forging.

 

To be honest, I find it amusing how many people places turmoil and chaos in the period of Golden Age of Imperium. M35 is after that and it's the time of two Empires, but still. -_-

 

Possibly, but its the understood fact that post-Hersey Legions were split into 1000 Chapters.

 

Per canon data, 9 Founding occurred in M35 … more then any other time period. I see this as a clear sign of hightened turmoil in the Imperium.

 

As part of the 17th Founding, the Justicars were given the high honor of siring a new chapter of Space Marines.

 

Who are Justicars?

 

Ultramarine successor. Basically a clone of the Ultras … used so there is no name dropping using Ultras, and the fact that they add nothing to the IA in the end.

 

A training cadre was assembled and sent to the volcanic world of Pyron. There they began the long process of turning the worthy few into Angels of Death, defenders of the Imperium.

 

According to article about Cursed Founding, the new Chapters are created and trained in the Founding Facility. After reaching the operational strenght, the Chapter is released into Universe.

 

I've checked, the article to which you're referring speaks only of the Cursed Founding. Its a push to make it cover all the foundings, and I used the standard creation accepted here at B&C.

 

Home World

It was only the hostile environment of Pyron that kept the beasts from making Pyron a permanent Ork world.

 

If the humans managed to survive, then it is safe to assume that the Orks could survive too. Orks are 'ard and cunning. Don't underestimate these beast.

 

I'll better explain this in next draft.

 

The surface was dotted with volcanoes spewing forth noxious gasses. These gases made extended life on the surface near impossible, and the hard life in the numerous man-made subterranean chambers and tunnels of the old mines made of a population of stout and industrious people. Perfect candidates for recruitment.

 

Volcanic activity means earthquakes. I somewhat doubt there will be underground mines in the first place, not to mention entire site of subterranean structures.

 

Not always and not necessarily surface wide. I'll explain better in next draft.

 

When rediscovered, the mines of Pyron had little left to offer to the Imperium.

 

Questionable. Either the resources were mined out and thus there wouldn't be reason for miners to stay or the minning operations were interrupted by the Age of Strife. Pick one.

 

I'll try to explain better in next draft.

 

History

In time, the Pyronites became bolder and, slowly at first, they began to make contact with the Space Marines. As the marines scouted and studied the local inhabitants, the Pyronites also gathered information on the universe around them. Tales of the Emperor, the Space Marines and the Imperium spread like wildfire through the population.

 

Why wasn't Pyron brought in the Imperium during the Great Crusade or after? We are in M35, the Imperium had enough time to establish contact with Pyron.

 

The universe is kinda big … say 4 square blocks and lots of planets have fallen between the cracks. It should not be uncommon to find a human settlement where you never knew there was one before.

 

Not only were they to know the protection the Space Marines would provide from the savage ones, what the Pyronites called the Orks that had plundered their planet for centuries

 

What exactly had Orks plundered on Volcanic World with little to no resources?

 

Meat … in the form of humans.

 

A chance to have a better life then the hard one forced on them by Pyron...

~

Life on Pyron was hard and always would be, but now there was at least a chance for something better.

 

You are joking, right? Life of Space Marine is not better, quite the contrary.

 

To you and me sure, but to the Pyronites maybe not. I'll try to explain better in next draft.

 

Only the strongest, smartest and most able could join and have a chance to become a part of the Chapter now to be known as the Sons of Pyron.

 

This wording is little bit brain-hurting.

 

I'll work on it.

 

They involved tests of strength, stamina and intelligence and would be difficult for most adults to complete, but only the young would take part in these games.

 

Again, brain-hurting wording of sentence.

 

Again, I'll work on it.

 

As a concession to the Elders, both boys and girls would be allowed to compete in the games, though only the boys that performed well would be considered for recruitment.

 

Why would be girls allowed to compete?

 

Concession to Elders and part of the weird plan of original Chapter Master. Already spelled out in IA.

 

Nonetheless, the Pyronite girls found honor and took pride in simply competing and even outperforming some of the boys.

 

We are here to defeat you. Of course our victory is absolutely meaningless, but we will feel better. :confused:

 

Showing you're better is enough for most, even without any praise at all.

 

These girls would be taught combat, both hand to hand and ship to ship, and someday man the Sons' fleet of ships.

~

Winning for these men gave them the opportunity to lay with the Daughters of Pyron.

 

Unlikely, or did you forget this is matriarchal society. Serving under men or being a prize in the tournament would be seen as insult.

 

You miss the point. The honor is all for the Daughters. They are the mothers of the Chapter. Those men are just used for genetic material.

 

The 36th through 38th Millenniums found the companies of the Sons spread through out two segmentums fighting the forces of Chaos.

 

Only Chaos?

 

Yeah, should be chaos.

 

Messages intercepted from the fleeing Orks claimed the planet itself had pushed them back. Rather then fall into the hands of the savage ones, Pyron's volcanoes had all erupted at once. All that remained was a lifeless planet. The task force pursued the Orks, leaving only the cruiser to guard till the Sons return.

 

Out of all possible ways of how to destroy planet, you have chosen this? :rolleyes: It's like, "I can't think of plausible scenario, therefore Wizard did it!"

 

Orks aren't the smartest race in the universe. No one has said that the planet blew up to kill the Orks, but to them it sure looked like it.

 

Dividing the Sons' into five new companies, each with reserves and scouts, the new Chapter Master sent them out with two distinct missions. First, to destroy the alien forces that had caused the death of their home world, and second, to cleanse other worlds as Pyron had done … with fire.

 

Let's forget the teachings of Codex on spot and let's do it in entirely different and unproven way. Yeah, right. :down:

 

Another (vain) attempt of We-don't-follow-Codex-organisation-because-we-got-mauled-in-history. :rolleyes:

 

Ah, but there was never an attempt to break from the Codex. They split to do a specific mission … and over time never returned to normal. Already laid out in IA.

 

Recruiting

They also eagerly take part in the Games to be allowed to lay with the new goddesses.

~

competing in combat to win favor of the Sons and the chance to lay with the Daughters.

~

the Daughters would be the sisters and mothers of future generations of the chapter, as well as manning the fleet of the Sons of Pyron.

 

So the Daughters were turned into objects of sexual desire and breeding devices. Nice one. :tu:

 

In addition, Why two recruiting worlds? Most Chapters is satisfied with one.

 

Daughters aren't sexual devices, the men are … they're the ones used simply for genetic material.

 

Beliefs

For the most part, the belief system of the Sons of Pyron was spawned, in one way or another, from Pyron, its sacrifice, and the savage ones that caused its destruction.

 

We are talking about Chapter with more than 5,000 years of history. One event, even of such significance as loss of homeworld, is not going to be end of all belief.

 

I don't see it as that hard to understand … the loss of their world was a really big event.

 

Overall, I find this IA wanting. Don't get me wrong, you have some good ideas, the program of Daughters and Sons is interesting.... but you suck at explaining and foreshadowing. Sorry bro, but "Wizard did it!" is not plausible explanation for destruction of the planet. Practically everything in the belief section needs better justification.

- Why would Pyron's Sacrifice turns your marines into pyromaniacs?

- Why are they so obsessed with purity?

The reason, "because we lost our homeworld in fire... " is rather weak. It should be much, much deeper that this.

 

Pyromaniacs: To them their world died to burn the impure .. should they do less?

 

Purity: As set out in IA, is there anything more impure then their hated enemy? Orks are neither creature nor plant, and at the same time both … and besides THEY'RE GREEN!!!

 

Second, you are wasting too much place and time with telling, not showing. For example, you talk a lot about hard and unforgiving life on Pyron. Yet, you fail to explain why is the life here so hard and unforgiving. It is Volcanic World... yeah we know that, and? Another example is society of Pyronites. We know about matriarchal structure, but that's all. On what tech-level they are or how they live is left unspoken.

IMHO, you should explore the planet and its inhabitant to full extent, instead of killing off Pyron in order to have a crutch for futher development and then having two additional un-developed worlds.

 

 

I've been trying to keep the IA to below 5000 words, but I'll do some more explaining and push it up beyond that. Just don't come back later and tell me its too long and I need to cut something out.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Ecritter

[NightrawenII]

Possibly, but its the understood fact that post-Hersey Legions were split into 1000 Chapters.

Source?

Because as far as I know, even the Ultramarines, the most numerous legion has been broken into 23 successors in the 2nd Founding.

 

The universe is kinda big … say 4 square blocks and lots of planets have fallen between the cracks. It should not be uncommon to find a human settlement where you never knew there was one before.

And the Justicars discovered this planet how exactly? It is a little too much convenient to find a suitable, previously unknown planet, when you are just looking for one, don't you think?

 

Why would be girls allowed to compete?

- Concession to Elders and part of the weird plan of original Chapter Master. Already spelled out in IA.

Why would the Elders have such demand in the first place? It is meanigless for girls to compete, because they cannot win. So what is the point in entering the tournament? Don't forget, this is matriarchal society, an situation, where the boys are prefered over girls would be great insult to the pride of the girls. Not entering the competition is far more better decision, because the girls could retain their face without losing at the end.

 

Showing you're better is enough for most, even without any praise at all.

Not for me. The victory without praise is bitter than the defeat.

Apparently, the girls aren't good enough to be chosen as the aspirants, instead the defeated boys are taken. Do you know what is injustice? This is great example of such thing.

 

You miss the point. The honor is all for the Daughters. They are the mothers of the Chapter. Those men are just used for genetic material.

And what leads you to believe this is not insult for girls? "Okey, you have won this tournament, now go and make some babies with this guy..." - It doesn't look like honour to me. :P

 

Orks aren't the smartest race in the universe. No one has said that the planet blew up to kill the Orks, but to them it sure looked like it.

Well, then your Marines aren't the smartest Marines in the universe, because obviously they believe this explanation. :P

 

Ah, but there was never an attempt to break from the Codex. They split to do a specific mission … and over time never returned to normal. Already laid out in IA.

The decision looks like it was made over night. And why was so important to split the forces? Why would they keep this specific formation over long period of time?

In Codex Chapter, the scouts and veterans are used in support of battle company most of the time, nevertheless they don't have problems to maintain these respective companies at all.

 

Daughters aren't sexual devices, the men are … they're the ones used simply for genetic material.

Oh, wait. Aren't the Daughters used as the servants in the Chapter? Aren't they used as mothers of aspirants for the Chapter? Aren't they under constant surveillance in order to root out the impure? = Breeding device.

 

And the IA spells it in pretty clear way that they ARE objects of sexual desire. Just look at the quotes I'm replying to.

 

I don't see it as that hard to understand … the loss of their world was a really big event.

Okey, I didn't want to use this example, but you forced me to do it... The Christmas (and Easter) are important holiday for Christians, yet it is not alpha and omega of Christian faith.

 

Pyromaniacs: To them their world died to burn the impure .. should they do less?

 

Purity: As set out in IA, is there anything more impure then their hated enemy? Orks are neither creature nor plant, and at the same time both … and besides THEY'RE GREEN!!!

It is not enough, really. I don't like when DIYer blames everything on single event in the history. The reason for such behaviour should be more thorough full, this is just act of angry child.

 

Chaos is far more worse than any Ork, because it corrupts and desecrates.