Gentlemanloser Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 And no Henchmen spam! Pure GK power here! ;) A thread for us to relax in, blow off some steam, and have fun throwing out what we think will become the most powerful way to build a GK list. ;) This isn't a 'rate my army' thread in any fashion! There's a sub-forum for that! 2,000 points. OK, taking a break from Mordrak + Libby Warp Rift shenanigans, I'll start with; HQ: Castellan Crowe Troop: Keeper of the Flame, 9 x Purifiers, 4 x Psycannons, 5 x Nemesis Force Halbards, Razorback Troop: Keeper of the Flame, 9 x Purifiers, 4 x Psycannons, 5 x Nemesis Force Halbards, Razorback Troop: Keeper of the Flame, 9 x Purifiers, 4 x Psycannons, 5 x Nemesis Force Halbards, Razorback Troop: Keeper of the Flame, 9 x Purifiers, 4 x Psycannons, 5 x Nemesis Force Halbards, Razorback Heavy: Nemesis DreadKnight, Nemesis Daemonhammer, Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter Heavy: Nemesis DreadKnight, Nemesis Daemonhammer, Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter (Edit: 1,980 points) Plan is to Combat Squad the 4 Purifier Squads, leaving 4 x 4 Psycannon firebases (16 Psycannons FTW!), and 4 x 5 Halbard Purifiers to zoom off towards your opponents in Razorbacks. With Jump Pack NDKs in support. Psycannons pop transports and Dreads, Purifiers melt things in CC. NDKs menace everyone. Crowe sits in a corner looking pretty. ;) Have at it! :cuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Why take the deamon hammer and not the great sword? NDK starts off with 2 fists that counts as DCCW meaning it is a S10 force weapon that gets +2D6 for AP... and strikes at I4. Great Sword strikes at I4 with S6 (or 7 with hammer hand) gets +2D6 for AP (because it is a MC) and gets to re-roll to hit, to wound and AP and is a force weapon. The hammer is a S10 I4 force weapon thunder hammer. To me it seems that the hammer is the worst choice. What am I missing about the hammer that makes it a better choice in your opinion? *edit* added that great sword is a FW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 12, 2011 Author Share Posted March 12, 2011 I was assuming the doomfists went at I1. If not, then the hammer is never worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 I was assuming the doomfists went at I1. If not, then the hammer is never worth it. Except it stuns vehicles and makes its victims I1. Otherwise, it's meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 I think they specify that Dreadknights strike at initiative with daemonhammers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Pretty sure doomfists are s6 as a dccw only doubles the strength of a walker, not a MC. The greatsword is definitely the most reliable option, although a pair of doomfists is still better than the hammer IMO. Also all the DKs weapons are at initiative order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Pretty sure doomfists are s6 as a dccw only doubles the strength of a walker, not a MC. The greatsword is definitely the most reliable option, although a pair of doomfists is still better than the hammer IMO. Also all the DKs weapons are at initiative order. Doomfists are DCCW so they're S10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resv Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Dread Knights just aren't really that impressive. For the cost of your two NDKs you could take three Rifleman Dreads with Psybolt Ammo which are just great! Why haven't you taken any weapon upgrades on your Keepers? There really is no reason not to take Halberds, Hammers, or Flachions on every Purifier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherWasted Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 As a shooting unit, no NDKs aren't impressive. As CC though, they're better than dreadnoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 At Hero: Please explain because I dont understand how being a dccw automatically makes a weapon double strength. I do know the rulebook states dccws double the strength of a walker but how does this apply to a monstrous creature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I'm not really seeing how that build is really 'powerful' in a all-comers sense. Certainly, you're going to surprise people with that much psycannon (mechanised armies will hate you, as will horde), but you're still relying on some pretty small units to achieve great things. Another thing to consider is the NDK are coming in from Reserve, yet you don't have a Grandmaster to get them in early with 'Communion'. The lack of serious armour in this list is another issue. I'm not saying you should take Landraiders (the amount of melta spam most 'current' codicies bring on a regular basis kinda invalidates taking such point-sinks in an expensive army), but a little variation would help. Right now all you've got is a handful of AV11 transports, which are not that difficult to knock out. Once they are gone, your mobility is lost, and you'll have to advance under fire to get those 'assault' combat squads into combat where they belong. Having played a regular Marine force before, I can tell you now, 'Combat Squads' looks good on paper, but the reality is you end up with less effective units. It becomes easier for the enemy to remove the models that actually threaten them (like the powerfist Sarge, or the heavy/special carrier), and thus neuter your squads. It's fun to pretend at being Devastators, but the reality is that Grey Knights need to get into combat and leverage their abilities. Obviously don't just rush into enemy lines like beserkers, but remember you're paying a premium on every model for those awesome force weapons and 'Hammerhand'. I think the whole 'Purifier army' concept is as flawed as the 'Sternguard army' build that was being mooted around the time the latest Codex Space Marines was about to hit the tables. Yeah, you've got more dakka and more hackyness than the Troops you're substituting, but you pay for it and they're still just MeQ's. It's boring and it truthfully won't work once people figure out your weaknesses (which will take all of five minutes, because we've all strategised about killing Tactical squads since Marines first existed). I'm not saying Purifiers suck, but Crowe sucks without any mitigating factors, and Brotherhood Champions are already questionable HQ choices anyway (I don't know why they aren't rolled into Paladin squads as an upgrade like an Apothecary). I consider Purifiers to be like Sternguard in pretty much every way; they're a great unit in and of themselves, but they work best as part of a balanced force, not just relentlessly spammed (even though I know thats the point of making a 'Purifier army'). I take Sternguard in my Exorcist army, but just the one unit, and they do a very specific job for me (objective clearance and fire support for the Tactical squads). Likewise, you should consider taking Purifiers to supplement a good core of (by comparison) cheap Strike squads. FYI, Crowe isn't needed for you to represent a Purifier strikeforce. Just take a Grandmaster, apply 'Grand Strategy', and hey presto your Purifiers are scoring too. You are limited to three, but thats the maximum you'd want anyway (Paladins are just begging to be fielded as a bodyguard for your Grandmaster and/or Librarian). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noirceuil Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 And no Henchmen spam! Pure GK power here! ;) A thread for us to relax in, blow off some steam, and have fun throwing out what we think will become the most powerful way to build a GK list. ;) This isn't a 'rate my army' thread in any fashion! There's a sub-forum for that! 2,000 points. OK, taking a break from Mordrak + Libby Warp Rift shenanigans, I'll start with; HQ: Castellan Crowe Troop: Keeper of the Flame, 9 x Purifiers, 4 x Psycannons, 5 x Nemesis Force Halbards, Razorback Troop: Keeper of the Flame, 9 x Purifiers, 4 x Psycannons, 5 x Nemesis Force Halbards, Razorback Troop: Keeper of the Flame, 9 x Purifiers, 4 x Psycannons, 5 x Nemesis Force Halbards, Razorback Troop: Keeper of the Flame, 9 x Purifiers, 4 x Psycannons, 5 x Nemesis Force Halbards, Razorback Heavy: Nemesis DreadKnight, Nemesis Daemonhammer, Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter Heavy: Nemesis DreadKnight, Nemesis Daemonhammer, Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter (Edit: 1,980 points) Plan is to Combat Squad the 4 Purifier Squads, leaving 4 x 4 Psycannon firebases (16 Psycannons FTW!), and 4 x 5 Halbard Purifiers to zoom off towards your opponents in Razorbacks. With Jump Pack NDKs in support. Psycannons pop transports and Dreads, Purifiers melt things in CC. NDKs menace everyone. Crowe sits in a corner looking pretty. ;) Have at it! :lol: I don't know what most of these new designations are, but according to the existing SM codex, Razorbacks only fit 6 models. 10-man squad won't work, bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimz Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 He will combat squad the 4 Psycannons from the Purifiers, and put the rest in the Razor What's the point cost on a list such as this: HQ: Grey Knight Grand Master with Rad Grenades Inquisitor Coteaz Elites: 10 x Purifiers (Halbeards, maybe Psycannons?, and maybe 1-2 Hammers?) Troops: 10 x GKSS - 1 Halbeard, 2 Psycannons, 1-2 Hammers, maybe Psybolt Ammo? in a Rhino 10 x GKSS - 1 Halbeard, 2 Psycannons, 1-2 Hammers, maybe Psybolt Ammo? in a Rhino 5x Warrior Acolytes - 3x Meltas, Las/Plas RB 5x Warrior Acolytes - 3x Meltas, Las/Plas RB 5x Warrior Acolytes - 3x Plasmas, Las/Plas RB 5x Warrior Acolytes - 3x Plasmas, Las/Plas RB Heavy Support: Land Raider Redeemer (Purifiers + GKGM Ride here) 2 X Rifleman Dread + Psybolts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Probably about 1,500 or 1,750 dude, depending on what upgrades you're gonna take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimz Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Cool, I'm aiming for a 1850 List Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 At Hero: Please explain because I dont understand how being a dccw automatically makes a weapon double strength. I do know the rulebook states dccws double the strength of a walker but how does this apply to a monstrous creature? A dread has S6, rules for the DCCW state the the users S is doubled to a max of S10. It effectively has the same description as a PF, except that it doesn't reduce to I1. Nothing in the description of the DCCW defines it as only available to dreads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I'm just trying to identify what the innate strengths of the Grey Knights are. They seem like an assault army at first glance, potential I6 and Power Weapons making up for the low number of attacks. But being able to give the entire army either S5 Storm Bolters or Psycannon makes them an incredibly potent mid ranged fire army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 13, 2011 Author Share Posted March 13, 2011 Why haven't you taken any weapon upgrades on your Keepers? There really is no reason not to take Halberds, Hammers, or Flachions on every Purifier. As mentioned above, Combat Squad the Purifiers. Edit: I even put that in the OP... "Plan is to Combat Squad the 4 Purifier Squads, leaving 4 x 4 Psycannon firebases (16 Psycannons FTW!), and 4 x 5 Halbard Purifiers to zoom off towards your opponents in Razorbacks.") 5 with 4 Psycannons stay 24" away. 5 hop in a Razorback to go pwn faces. That's why you only need 5 Halberds. As for Combat Squads, I'm thinking Cleansing Flame will mititgate the small Squad sizes in CC. Especially if you charge a unit with multiple Purifier combat Squads and hit your opponents with more than 1 Cleansing Flame. Anyway, this wasn't really a thread for feedback on my list (wrong forum!), just a bit of fun. So if you don't think my list is the 'most powerful' pure GK build (and it most likely isn't! :P) then post up what you think it is instead! ;) Have fun, go nuts! 2K points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 The main strengths of the Grey Knights is that their shooting decimates the numerical superiority of the enemy (and it'll kill a fair few MeQ's and light armour along the way too), while they clean up heavy infantry and monsters in close-combat. The balancing factors are that every casualty hurts (not as much as Deathwing, but close), and we lack real anti-tank on our infantry (although our support vehicles do make up for that somewhat). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I'm sure there is something with Scouting Storm Ravens and DreadKnights guaranteeing a first turn charge, but I can't be bothered to work it out yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 13, 2011 Author Share Posted March 13, 2011 Can't scout Storm Ravens. :P But Scouting NDKs are win! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Oh yeh. Bugger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Quick Q: What does Master-Crafted do to template weapons these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Quick Q: What does Master-Crafted do to template weapons these days? Well, I'm not sure you can master-craft any template weapons. Example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I really like the look of Vindicares. Whether it is taking down enemy Librarians/RunePriests effectively on a 4+, removing Long Fang sergeants, taking down inv saves on enemy HQs or using the 4D6 pen AP1 shots to go at heavy armour. They have great flexibility at their price. I like the idea of Scouting Nemesis DreadKnights getting 1st turn charges against Long Fangs or anything else you want to tie up in the opponents' backfield. It is all a bit overwhelming at the moment. There's no obvious undercosted troops to spam. Coteaz costing 100pts to unlock troop Henchmen is still a redundant premium on really bad BS3 Warriors. 6 Grey Knights in a TL AssCannon Psybolt Razorback look good, but they are over 200pts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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