whats a good amount of scoring units to field?

[The DeathJester]

In a recent game I had I fielded Two Scoring units, 1 Full Tactical, and 1 full scout,, they got wiped out relatively swiftly,

 

what in your opinion is a wise amout of scoring units to have in one army, 2 units, 3, 4??

 

Im also tempted to feild a varity of them, since codex spacemarine can have tactical squads and Scouts as standard, with the right HQ I can field Bikersquads and Sternguard Squad as troops.

 

Whats your thoughts and opinions?

[Shadowstalker Grim]

I think the general consensus is that 2 scoring units are all you need, usually it'll be 2 full tacticals or 2 small scout units.

 

Generally the tacticals are harder to wipe and allow you plenty of points to buy other units, scouts are taken when you just want to put the absoloute minimum into the troops section. Naturally the small scout unit won't last long and needs to be looked after because of their small size, likewise a 10 man tactical on its own can't really hold its own too much, but can do okay.

 

Sometimes (usually around 2000+ points) people will opt for a 3rd scoring unit, though it is perfectly viable at lower points values.

 

 

Don't forget though, you can only field bikers as troops (sternguard only count as SCORING, so they still take elite slots and you still must take the 2 mandatory troops) bikers will often be smaller in number, but many will vouch for how deadly such armies can be.

 

 

Could you feedback to us a bit as to how you lost your troops, what to, how you were using them, equipment etc. This way we can help construct a strong response <_<

[The DeathJester]

They were destroyed by Khorne Beserkers, Lol, You can see why they didnt last long,

 

But my point is that tactical squads can be wiped out easily if a dedicated "No armour save for you mate!" squads takes them down.

[nurglez]

the amount of troops I use depends on how many points the game is, and what army I'm playing with.

 

at 1500 for example, I run 4 plague marine squads in my pure deathguard force, but then again the only troops I allow myself to use in that force are plague marines.

 

In my mostly pure logan wing, I take 3-4, but these are 5 man terminator squads, and I put them in drop pods so they need to be 5 models or less. Recently I've been adding more toys (TWC, long fangs, Arjac) at the cost of more troops, but this is a tactical choice for me, more killy but with an inbuilt weakness.

 

In a chaos army, because of effective choices such as plague marines (defensive) or berserkers (offensive), you can afford to take more troops and not lose kill power.

[DarkGuard]

Ah but nurgelz, you're playing armies that can afford to use so many troop choices. I mean, Plague Marines are tough, and Khorne Bezerkers are CC monsters. Likewise, who wouldn't want lots of scoring Terminator squads?

 

C:SM is another story entirely. Compared to other units in the Codex, and other troops in the game Tactical Marines aren't amazing. They're support troops, meant to support the hard hitting elite elements in the force, not be that spearhead themselves. Therefore, you have to walk a balancing act between number of troops for objective games, and things that can actually pack a punch.

 

Now for objectives games you win by holding one objective and contesting the rest. Anything to contest, only troops can hold. Therefore, you don't actually need many. I find that for 1500pts games a couple of 10 man Tactical squads in Rhinos do the job nicely. They're protected while in the Rhino, and with the right equipment can still do some damage and support the other units in your army. I arm mine with combi-flamer/flamer/multi-melta, allowing them to capture objectives in midfield and hold them well, while supporting my Sternguard and Vindys. Plus, they can also be called upon to attack the enemy if need be or nick an objective due to the potential of two flamer templates. But what you mustn't underestimate is the survivability of 10 guys in power armour inside a Rhino, I can rely on these guys to hold onto objectives all day long.

 

If you feel that two scoring units aren't enough, then consider a third. However, the best way to go about this is to consider them as backfield objective holders, so you don't want to sink many points into a unit that won't have a big impact on the game. I find a small unit of 5 sniper scouts with camo cloaks, maybe a heavy bolter, weighing in at 90-100pts works fine for this. Or if you want better support and to stay mechanised then a 5 man Tactical squad in a las plas Razorback, maybe with a combi-flamer for protecting the objective up close, can also works. The las plas lets you take out tanks and elite infantry that get close, while supporting the advance, and it protects your scoring unit. Comes in at 165-175pts. Both of these don't cost too many points, depending on what else your taking both can be good. However, they are by no means necessary, and more there for effective peace of mind.

 

Hope that's been helpful, and not just mindless rambling.

[greatcrusade08]

some issue has to be taken with the quality of troops choices..

its hard to say take 2 if those 2 choices are 5 man scout squads.. they wont last long.

 

id say 2 troops choices are fine, if they are tac squad equivalent (10 men each).. if you using scouts a third squad is necessary IMO

[Tangamarine]

I normally use 3x 10 man tactical squads, since in our gaming environment. non standard missions seem to come up a lot.

[Vaktathi]

As a general rule, I don't field less than 3 scoring units in most games (usually 4), almost never fewer than 4 in 1750/1850/2000pt games, and I'd probably bump it up to 5 at least for 2500pts.

 

For sub 1000pt games, I might bump it down to 2, but that's probably the only situation in which I wouldn't field at least 3.

[Br0ther Rafen]

for me, the general rule of thumb is 2 choices (10x Tac equivelent) for 1000-1500, and +1 for every 500 points (so 3 choices for 2k, 4 for 2.5k, etc)

obviously there are exceptions (like Troops heavy forces and small scout squads), but this usually works for me.

[Captain Idaho]

The problem is Marine armies are outnumbered and you can't afford to have a units designed just for hanging back and holding objectives. 2 Tactical squads sounds fine provided you have plenty of other infantry on the table to do the dirty work.

 

If you are using your Tactical squads to take the fight to the enemy then you will need more.

 

I find a comprimise between keeping things cheap enough so I get the good stuff and having enough infantry to do the job. I use 3 full Tactical squads; one for hanging back and sniping with it's Lascannon and plasma gun and holding the objectives, the other 2 Rhino mounted for support in the rest of the army's attack.

[Grey Mage]

In a recent game I had I fielded Two Scoring units, 1 Full Tactical, and 1 full scout,, they got wiped out relatively swiftly,

 

what in your opinion is a wise amout of scoring units to have in one army, 2 units, 3, 4??

 

Im also tempted to feild a varity of them, since codex spacemarine can have tactical squads and Scouts as standard, with the right HQ I can field Bikersquads and Sternguard Squad as troops.

 

Whats your thoughts and opinions?

In a marine army?

 

1 full squad per 500pts. 5 man scout squads count, if they have camo cloaks and end up as a shooting squad camping an objective in 9/10 games. Otherwise 10 strong to make the cut.

 

Seems to work for just about any situation. I prefer to always round up, some people round down, or at say 1750 do 3 full squads and a small scout squad for instance.

[Hellios]

The problem is Marine armies are outnumbered and you can't afford to have a units designed just for hanging back and holding objectives.

 

Maybe specifically for marines (I haven't tried) but Eldar are also often out numbered and many eldar players just take tiny troop choices which they hide and use to take/grab objectives later one while they hope the rest of their force can do what is needed. I will admit generally space marine troop choices are not that fast and their transports will often not be as tough.

[Captain Idaho]

Well the dirty Eldar are always an exception! They are super fast and for some reason their transports are tougher than any other transport the Imperium has short of a Landraider!

 

But yes, I agree with Grey Mage; 1 per 500pts is safe for Marines.

[JamesI]

for me, the general rule of thumb is 2 choices (10x Tac equivelent) for 1000-1500, and +1 for every 500 points (so 3 choices for 2k, 4 for 2.5k, etc)

obviously there are exceptions (like Troops heavy forces and small scout squads), but this usually works for me.

This is generally what I think as well, assuming your scoring units are Tactical marines or the equivalent and squads are mostly full size.

[The DeathJester]

Well the dirty Eldar are always an exception! They are super fast and for some reason their transports are tougher than any other transport the Imperium has short of a Landraider!

 

But yes, I agree with Grey Mage; 1 per 500pts is safe for Marines.

 

Dont forget that our bikers can count as scoring units and turbo boost at the last minute onto an objective, assuming they have survived of coarse, we arent so different.

[LardO'Blood]

Who needs to worry about that, just turn all your elites into troops and play Deathwing!

But seriously...I like 3 tactical squads at 1500, 2 below that out of necessity.

[Luis_CC]

The problem with troops is that, in general, they are not specialized troops. So the increase of "scoring power" usually means a decrease in "bellical power".

 

You have to get a balance, taking into account that troops (or your scoring units) must survive until the end of the game; and that implies that even taking more scoring units can produce a bad effect in your scoring power, if the rest of the army (as a result of the reduction of bellical power) is not able to protect them or to destroy the scoring enemy units.

[KhorneHunter57x]

I believe that I am one of the few that does something similar to this, but in games up to and including 2,000 points I only field two 5-man Tactical squads (Tactical instead of Scout so I can buy a pair of Razorbacks) that proceed to sit the whole game in a pair of Land Raiders.

 

Although this leaves me with only 10 scoring models, they are sitting inside two heavy vehicles. It also leaves 91% of my points (in a 2k list) for killy units. I have not found a low number of scoring units to be a liability. I have used armies with three full Tactical squads in the past, but I have found that it just doesn't work for me.

 

That said, I believe that the number of scoring units that work for you is determined by your playstyle. Some people, like me, prefer having fewer scoring units, whereas others prefer having more. I think that you should playtest several variations and find out what works best for you.

[Luis_CC]

I believe that I am one of the few that does something similar to this, but in games up to and including 2,000 points I only field two 5-man Tactical squads (Tactical instead of Scout so I can buy a pair of Razorbacks) that proceed to sit the whole game in a pair of Land Raiders.

 

Although this leaves me with only 10 scoring models, they are sitting inside two heavy vehicles. It also leaves 91% of my points (in a 2k list) for killy units. I have not found a low number of scoring units to be a liability. I have used armies with three full Tactical squads in the past, but I have found that it just doesn't work for me.

 

That said, I believe that the number of scoring units that work for you is determined by your playstyle. Some people, like me, prefer having fewer scoring units, whereas others prefer having more. I think that you should playtest several variations and find out what works best for you.

 

I also use the "scoring land raider", I tend to include 5BP and CCW scouts inside a regular land raider. I include another scout squad (10, ml, sniper rifles) and 10sternguard (i use kantor) in 2.000 list.

[gettothegone]

Saw this...

 

Thought this:

 

1 full squad per 500pts.

 

Saw it was written already.

 

Just in to +1 it.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

I tend to use a full three tactical squads at 2000 points. It gives me a nice solid core to form my army around, leaves me with a good amount of points left over, and ensures scoring survivability, as well as the ability to win any objectives game.

[Grey Mage]

The problem is Marine armies are outnumbered and you can't afford to have a units designed just for hanging back and holding objectives.

 

Maybe specifically for marines (I haven't tried) but Eldar are also often out numbered and many eldar players just take tiny troop choices which they hide and use to take/grab objectives later one while they hope the rest of their force can do what is needed. I will admit generally space marine troop choices are not that fast and their transports will often not be as tough.

See, and my Eldar army also follows the 1 per 500pts idea, its where I came up with it back near the end of 3rd edition. Back then it was to keep the numbers up so my Eldar army wasnt always outnumbered, so I could have the staying power to get stuck in when I needed it.

 

The problem with troops is that, in general, they are not specialized troops. So the increase of "scoring power" usually means a decrease in "bellical power".

 

You have to get a balance, taking into account that troops (or your scoring units) must survive until the end of the game; and that implies that even taking more scoring units can produce a bad effect in your scoring power, if the rest of the army (as a result of the reduction of bellical power) is not able to protect them or to destroy the scoring enemy units.

If your troops arent killy, your probly doing it wrong. There are ways to properly use the scoring units in any current C:SM so that not only do they survive, take, and hold objectives- but that they increase your kill count while doing so.

 

Troops are not a liability, they just require you to think in a way that deathstars do not.

[Luis_CC]

If your troops arent killy, your probly doing it wrong. There are ways to properly use the scoring units in any current C:SM so that not only do they survive, take, and hold objectives- but that they increase your kill count while doing so.

 

Troops are not a liability, they just require you to think in a way that deathstars do not.

 

I guess that you can give us some examples of that killy troops, save sniper scouts with ML and telion, because everytime I used tactical squads I found them too expensive for their performance.

 

I don´t mean troops are only for controlling objetives; I mean that they have less tactical o bellical potential that other units with equivalent cost.

[DarkGuard]

If your troops arent killy, your probly doing it wrong. There are ways to properly use the scoring units in any current C:SM so that not only do they survive, take, and hold objectives- but that they increase your kill count while doing so.

 

Troops are not a liability, they just require you to think in a way that deathstars do not.

 

I guess that you can give us some examples of that killy troops, save sniper scouts with ML and telion, because everytime I used tactical squads I found them too expensive for their performance.

 

I don´t mean troops are only for controlling objetives; I mean that they have less tactical o bellical potential that other units with equivalent cost.

 

10 man Tactical squad, armed with a flamer and multi-melta. The Sergeant has a combi-flamer and they go in a Rhino. 215pts.

 

The multi-melta will reliably take out tanks, so there's a couple of kill points there. The Rhino helps set them up for this and protects them. The flamer is always a useful weapon, especially when it's free, and the combi-flamer means that for one turn that unit can really lay the hurt on an enemy unit. Combined with bolter fire, you'll only need that one turn, lots of units will get hit hard by the amount of wounds that they dish out. Against a full Dire Avenger once I stayed in the tank and just fired the combi and flamer out the top hatch, took most of them out. Now add in bolt shots, and medium and light infantry will be hit hard, and even Marines will take some wounds.

 

I've also used Vulkan a couple of times with this unit, and they were impressive, near enough wiping out entire squads of MEQ due to the amount of wounds they put on them.

 

For me, to make Tactical squads killy you need the Sergeant with a combi weapon similar to their special. However, for their price the combi-plasma/plasma gun combo isn't as good, dealing about the same amount of kills onto Marines, and fading against infantry, and it's 225pts. For 220pts the meltagun/combi-melta isn't too bad, and can be used to take on tanks.

 

But yeah, for me, after experimenting a lot, I wouldn't change my combi-flamer/flamer/MM squads. They are solid midfield support, and can pack a punch when needed.

[Luis_CC]

10 man Tactical squad, armed with a flamer and multi-melta. The Sergeant has a combi-flamer and they go in a Rhino. 215pts.

 

The multi-melta will reliably take out tanks, so there's a couple of kill points there. The Rhino helps set them up for this and protects them. The flamer is always a useful weapon, especially when it's free, and the combi-flamer means that for one turn that unit can really lay the hurt on an enemy unit. Combined with bolter fire, you'll only need that one turn, lots of units will get hit hard by the amount of wounds that they dish out. Against a full Dire Avenger once I stayed in the tank and just fired the combi and flamer out the top hatch, took most of them out. Now add in bolt shots, and medium and light infantry will be hit hard, and even Marines will take some wounds.

 

I've also used Vulkan a couple of times with this unit, and they were impressive, near enough wiping out entire squads of MEQ due to the amount of wounds they put on them.

 

For me, to make Tactical squads killy you need the Sergeant with a combi weapon similar to their special. However, for their price the combi-plasma/plasma gun combo isn't as good, dealing about the same amount of kills onto Marines, and fading against infantry, and it's 225pts. For 220pts the meltagun/combi-melta isn't too bad, and can be used to take on tanks.

 

But yeah, for me, after experimenting a lot, I wouldn't change my combi-flamer/flamer/MM squads. They are solid midfield support, and can pack a punch when needed.

 

That is a good one. Although, I prefer plasma cannon, melta gun, combi melta and power fist and I, even, prefer 10sniper scouts with telion and ML.

But the "problem" that I wanted to point out was that, for the coste of a combi-flamer/flamer/MM/rhino squads, you can include a terminator assault squad or a vindi and a LS typhoon or almost a LR Redentor, much more killier. So, usually, more troops imply less killer power.