55 replies to this topic

[SpecialIssueAmmo]

I'll suggest that the treachery of the Limetiri is revealed slowly, bit by bit. So we see astartes plans compromised as their guard 'allies' feed info to the enemy secretly. Squads, officers and ships are going unaccounted for, only to reappear back with Imperial forces, or are caught in compromising/heretical acts and eliminated singly. Suspicions rise, and conflict may break out, especially among the more suspicious astartes (eg. Guardian Eagles). In the end, either the Guard traitors finally turn on the Astartes wholesale in a single surprise stab in the back after executing every loyalist in their midst, or the astartes find enough evidence against them to preemptively wipe out the regiments, loyal and traitor in the crossfire of a massive battle with traitor forces.

[Banelord]

I'll suggest that the treachery of the Limetiri is revealed slowly, bit by bit. So we see astartes plans compromised as their guard 'allies' feed info to the enemy secretly. Squads, officers and ships are going unaccounted for, only to reappear back with Imperial forces, or are caught in compromising/heretical acts and eliminated singly. Suspicions rise, and conflict may break out, especially among the more suspicious astartes (eg. Guardian Eagles). In the end, either the Guard traitors finally turn on the Astartes wholesale in a single surprise stab in the back after executing every loyalist in their midst, or the astartes find enough evidence against them to preemptively wipe out the regiments, loyal and traitor in the crossfire of a massive battle with traitor forces.

This would make an brilliant ending, just as we recover the bones and think we are winning the war, half of are “so called allies” betray us. Now out numbered the surviving marines have to work together to fight their way out, but losing the plant in the process.




I feel, the initial investigation of the missing bones should be handled by the Inquisition, its their job after all . As they uncover the Limetin plot they bring in reinforcements, as the war escalates more and more forces/chapters come in, but this is a by product of the bones going missing up till that point nothing should be suspected or very little. The bones going missing could be a plot by a rival cult looking for power themselves, or it could link to the Reavers plan:

The 'Reavers are "all in" on this as far as I'm concerned (as in the entire force is there). In my mind, they are after something else on Imurth, but find the bones of Petrok first. Over time, they realise the bones' significance and hold them and the Planet to ransom. The ulterior motive for them, is that they wish to give a sacrifice to the Pantheon and what better way to do that than slaughter a large force of Loyalists. They were led to the Planet in search of those whom betrayed them (read: The Steel Wings), as the Chapter in question had been on the Planet previously to put down a rebellion. However, it wasn't dealt with as thoroughly as they thought as it leads us to this, and the 'Reavers capitalise, in the hope that the 'Wings come back. They don't (obviously), but decide to go ahead with their plan anyway.

Its feels more chaos to me to have 2 rivals competing for power
It just an ideal

Edited by Banelord, 09 June 2011 - 10:55 AM.

[stilettoblade]

I like where this is going.
Here's an attempt to pull some of the newer ideas into an outline.

The bones of Petrok disappear, and the Inquisition and perhaps one local Marine chapter start nosing around. The taint of heresy and possibly the stink of Chaos is found, and the Limetiri let them discover just enough to pique their interest - heretic cells uncovered, some information intercepted, etc... Nothing that tips their hand, just enough to keep the Loyalists coming in.

Eventually, the Limetiri decide that there are sufficient Loyalists present for their nefarious plans (or that they are about to be outnumbered and need to act, but I prefer the first) and they move to the next phase. The bones are "located" (allowed to be found), in the hands of a heretical cult, and the imperial forces move in a show of overwhelming force to recover them and devastate the cult utterly. Petrok's remains are recovered, and the force prepares to escort them back to their proper resting place. While the plans for the victory pilgrimage are ongoing, the Limetiri play their hand. A signal goes out, the sleeper agents are activated, and fully three quarters of the Guard on the surface and half of the Navy forces in orbit turn on their loyal brethren. It's a massacre. The initial phase of the battle is over before it even begins, with the remaining guard forces almost completely traitor, and nearly all the Navy vessels either traitor or unable to act due to mutinies being put down. The Marine ground troops find themselves surrounded by millions of traitors, the fleet elements by a traitor battlefleet blockading the planet. It is at this moment that the Reavers sweep in for the kill.

Things look grim for the Astartes until a daring covert boarding action by the (which chapter present specializes in space boarding actions?) takes back one of the Navy capitol ships and overloads its plasma reactors, blasting a hole in the defenses and giving the defenders an opening for a fighting withdrawal. Once the Marines are able to regroup and mount a proper defense/counterattack, the Reavers flee, sacrificing the Navy forces to cover their retreat. The traitor forces are demolished, both the fleet in space combat and the ground forces by orbital bombardment, and the Petrok's remains are finally taken back to their proper resting place.

There's several opportunities for chapters to have a feature moment - leading the assault on the red herring force, the space boarding to break up the fleet, the rear guard for the withdrawal (dibs on that for the Hellbenders), maybe a heroic pursuit of the masterminds.
There's also plenty of room there for rival traitor marines. Perhaps the blockade could be broken by elements of one traitor marine force to sabotage the other after feeling betrayed earlier in the conflict.

[Banelord]

Sounding good

As well as a covert boarding action, maybe a few Astartes ships survive and have just been driven off by superior numbers. They use the hole in the defences and the confusion caused by the explostion to smash their way to the planet but the fleet would be still out numbered and it only a matter of time before they are overwhelmed. They then do the fighting retreat, regroup, summon reinforcements and they then take revenge

[Ninjaman]

Hi, I'm kind of new to the forums, especially here, but i would love to volunteer my Astral Guard for a dropsite massacre or rearguard action if one is here. If that means a general repreat of what happened on Isstvan V then so be it. Granted on a smaller scale.

If i can't join in then thats fine as well.

Ninjaman

[stilettoblade]

In the interest of our section not falling behind, I'll do a little steering, I guess.
Since there appear to be no objections to this rough outline, then the next step is to get all of our forces sketched into it, loyal and traitor both. Each commander, please go ahead and tell us where your chapter comes into the conflict and what they do. Once we have what everyone would like for their role to be, we can iron out overlaps/conflicts/contradictions. Since Ferrata wants an overall outline by the 26th, we should probably try to get these all up by Friday.

The bones of Petrok disappear, and the Inquisition and one local Marine chapter start nosing around. The taint of heresy and the stink of Chaos are found, and the Limetiri let the Inquisitor discover just enough to pique their interest - heretic cells uncovered, some information intercepted, etc... Nothing that tips the traitors' hand, just enough to keep the Loyalists coming in.

Eventually, the Limetiri decide that there are sufficient Loyalists present for their nefarious plans and they move to the next phase. The bones are "located" (allowed to be found), in the hands of a heretical cult, and the imperial forces move in a show of overwhelming force to recover them and devastate the cult utterly. Petrok's remains are recovered, and the force prepares to escort them back to their proper resting place. While the plans for the victory pilgrimage are ongoing, the Limetiri play their hand. A signal goes out, the sleeper agents are activated, and fully three quarters of the Guard on the surface and half of the Navy forces in orbit turn on their loyal brethren. It's a massacre. The initial phase of the battle is over before it even begins. The remaining loyal guard forces are executed en mass, and every Navy vessel is either commanded by traitor or unable to act due to mutinies being put down. The Marine ground troops find themselves surrounded by millions of traitors, their fleet elements cut off by a traitor battlefleet blockading the planet. It is at this moment that the Reavers sweep in for the kill.

Things look grim for the Astartes until a daring covert boarding action by one chapter, who stayed primarily on their vessels rather than deploying to the surface, takes back one of the Navy capitol ships and overloads its plasma reactors, blasting a hole in the defenses and giving the defenders an opening for a fighting withdrawal. Once the Marines are able to regroup and mount a proper defense/counterattack, the Reavers flee, sacrificing the traitor Navy forces to cover their retreat. The traitor forces are demolished, both the fleet in space combat and the ground forces by orbital bombardment, and the Petrok's remains are finally taken back to their proper resting place.

There's several opportunities for chapters to have a feature moment - leading the assault on the cult that holds the relics (a red herring to get the imperial forces in position for the trap), the space boarding to break up the fleet, the rear guard for the withdrawal (dibs on that for the Hellbenders), maybe a heroic (but untimately futile) pursuit of the traitor masterminds.
There's also plenty of room there for rival traitor marines. For example, perhaps the blockade could be broken by elements of one traitor marine force to sabotage the other after feeling betrayed earlier in the conflict.

Edited by stilettoblade, 14 June 2011 - 06:40 PM.

[Banelord]

In the interest of our section not falling behind, I'll do a little steering, I guess.

The bones of Petrok disappear, and the Inquisition and one local Marine chapter start nosing around. The taint of heresy and the stink of Chaos are found, and the Limetiri let the Inquisitor discover just enough to pique their interest - heretic cells uncovered, some information intercepted, etc... Nothing that tips the traitors' hand, just enough to keep the Loyalists coming in.

Eventually, the Limetiri decide that there are sufficient Loyalists present for their nefarious plans and they move to the next phase. The bones are "located" (allowed to be found), in the hands of a heretical cult, and the imperial forces move in a show of overwhelming force to recover them and devastate the cult utterly. Petrok's remains are recovered, and the force prepares to escort them back to their proper resting place. While the plans for the victory pilgrimage are ongoing, the Limetiri play their hand. A signal goes out, the sleeper agents are activated, and fully three quarters of the Guard on the surface and half of the Navy forces in orbit turn on their loyal brethren. It's a massacre. The initial phase of the battle is over before it even begins. The remaining loyal guard forces are executed en mass, and every Navy vessel is either commanded by traitor or unable to act due to mutinies being put down. The Marine ground troops find themselves surrounded by millions of traitors, their fleet elements cut off by a traitor battlefleet blockading the planet. It is at this moment that the Reavers sweep in for the kill.

Things look grim for the Astartes until a daring covert boarding action by one chapter, who stayed primarily on their vessels rather than deploying to the surface, takes back one of the Navy capitol ships and overloads its plasma reactors, blasting a hole in the defenses and giving the defenders an opening for a fighting withdrawal. Once the Marines are able to regroup and mount a proper defense/counterattack, the Reavers flee, sacrificing the traitor Navy forces to cover their retreat. The traitor forces are demolished, both the fleet in space combat and the ground forces by orbital bombardment, and the Petrok's remains are finally taken back to their proper resting place.

There's several opportunities for chapters to have a feature moment - leading the assault on the cult that holds the relics (a red herring to get the imperial forces in position for the trap), the space boarding to break up the fleet, the rear guard for the withdrawal (dibs on that for the Hellbenders), maybe a heroic (but untimately futile) pursuit of the traitor masterminds.
There's also plenty of room there for rival traitor marines. For example, perhaps the blockade could be broken by elements of one traitor marine force to sabotage the other after feeling betrayed earlier in the conflict.

I’ll help as much as I can, hopefully (work and family allowing) I’ll be able to do some work on this and my chapter this weekend. This is a loose outline:

The Dire Wolves come in shortly after the Inquisitor discovers the cult and calls in reinforcements. They suspect “fallen” involvement (I’ll leave this down to you guys if you want the “Fallen” involved with the Limetiri or not, but suspicion and a rebellion would be enough for them send a sizeable force), initially they retake a major city/base (maybe a spaceport? Or some sort of supply depo?) that has fallen to the enemy. They then use this as a staging post for the rest of the war, they basically spend their time trying to discover the suspected fallen (if there is any ) "pursuit of the traitor masterminds" so to speak . When the trap is sprung they fight to keep hold of the city/base in “ Battle of Stalingrad” style. This could be for its importance or it could be it’s the only defendable position in the hands of the marines of all other chapters could be fighting their way back to it? but I’ll leave that down to you .

Edited by Banelord, 14 June 2011 - 08:21 PM.

[Aquilanus]

Apologies for not being around, but I've had a lot to have to deal with (appointments with the doctor about my knee, a stinker of a cold and other stuff that I won't bore you with) lately. I'll review the entire thread thus far and try to extract all the stuff agreed so far and get a workable framework to continue with

[stilettoblade]

Apologies for not being around, but I've had a lot to have to deal with (appointments with the doctor about my knee, a stinker of a cold and other stuff that I won't bore you with) lately. I'll review the entire thread thus far and try to extract all the stuff agreed so far and get a workable framework to continue with

No problem. You mentioned things might be busy for you for a while, so I figured I'd just nudge things a little to keep it moving. If you disagree with the rough outline I posted, let me know and I'll change/remove it, but I think it incorporates most of the concepts that have been brought up, and it at least gives somewhere to start building from.

[Aquilanus]

Apologies for not being around, but I've had a lot to have to deal with (appointments with the doctor about my knee, a stinker of a cold and other stuff that I won't bore you with) lately. I'll review the entire thread thus far and try to extract all the stuff agreed so far and get a workable framework to continue with

No problem. You mentioned things might be busy for you for a while, so I figured I'd just nudge things a little to keep it moving. If you disagree with the rough outline I posted, let me know and I'll change/remove it, but I think it incorporates most of the concepts that have been brought up, and it at least gives somewhere to start building from.

I won't be in the right frame of mind to be able to process anything properly until tomorrow, but from what I've seen we're going in the right direction

Hopefully, my head won't be so full of cotton wool that I can't do a little piece to set the mood (from the Reavers' point of view)

[Banelord]

Apologies for not being around, but I've had a lot to have to deal with (appointments with the doctor about my knee, a stinker of a cold and other stuff that I won't bore you with) lately. I'll review the entire thread thus far and try to extract all the stuff agreed so far and get a workable framework to continue with

No problem. You mentioned things might be busy for you for a while, so I figured I'd just nudge things a little to keep it moving. If you disagree with the rough outline I posted, let me know and I'll change/remove it, but I think it incorporates most of the concepts that have been brought up, and it at least gives somewhere to start building from.

I won't be in the right frame of mind to be able to process anything properly until tomorrow, but from what I've seen we're going in the right direction

Hopefully, my head won't be so full of cotton wool that I can't do a little piece to set the mood (from the Reavers' point of view)

No problem , I think, once we really get going, this is working out to be a cross between Armageddon and Isstvan V. small scale but intense

[SpecialIssueAmmo]

My take on Limetiri:

1. Cultist activity piques interest of snooping Inquisition. Tracing the evidence, it implicates the Governor and govt in corruption and treachery. Immediately they are all executed by the wrathful Inquisitor, and replacements appointed under temporary martial law. Guess what... the replacements are all traitorous Limetiri.

2. Despite this inquisitorial 'purge', cultist activity does not cease, if anything becoming even more widespread. Coupled with the extremely harsh martial law implemented under 'loyal' government, unrest grows to global proportions, and soon there is a secessionist movement on several continents, including a significant portion of the local armed forces who claim freedom from oppression. Civil war breaks out, and help is called out for by the Inquisition. First marines arrive.

3. Despite this, the 'loyalists' seem to always be on the backfoot to the secessionists - plans confounded, secrets exposed, tactics countered, and are bloodily giving ground. Add to this suspicious activity by a number of loyal troops - AWOL, missing, 'destroyed in the field' only to have mysterious look-alikes later spotted on the opposing side. In a brazen act of desecration, a raid on the holy shrine to Petrok steals his bones away, despite heavy security. Conflicts among the Imperium factions break out as the more suspicious astartes begin to accuse others of treachery. The more paranoid astartes/Imperials begin massed disciplinary actions, involving shooting suspected regiments in the back wholesale on the field of battle.

4. The battle for the capital city rages, and the war drags out into a battle of attrition, as soon the entire sector is seemingly engulfed in the spore of treachery and uprising, more forces from both sides arriving/appearing. Significant numbers of heretic movements and traitor marines arrive/reveal themselves and join in the fight against both seccessionists and loyalists. Its a messy conflict, with heavy casualties for all three sides - secessionists, loyalists and the newly arrived/revealed heretics.

5. Realizing their deception is slipping, the original heresy is finally revealed in full, the Limetiri sleepers revealing themselves among both the 'seccessionists' and loyalists. Mass slaughter and utter confusion reign, as loyalists are caught in the crossfire of heretics, traitors and confused seccessionists (many of whom had no idea of the Chaotic influence of their movement). Identification of friend and foe breaks down among all factions, and it is revealed that the secessionist movement is a cover for the Limetirian Petrok-inspired Chaos heresy (which has different goals to the other heretical movements). The loyalists are badly mauled - yet have a strike of luck. The heretics overestimate themselves, and in their arrogance allow the blood-soaked bones to be paraded at the front of their offense on the evac zone. In the last desperate battle, the astartes kill the heretic Governor and reclaim the bones personally.

6. The confusion is space, deft counter-boarding actions and Pyrrhic demolitions (warp drive detonations, planet killer ordnance) allow the astartes to blow a hole in the warring factions' fleet blockades at great cost, and escape the treasonous system still in uproar, the bones safely in their grasp.

In short, a very bloody, confused, chaotic and drawn-out war.

Edited by SpecialIssueAmmo, 15 June 2011 - 11:36 AM.

[Aquilanus]

Okay, having read most of the thread multiple times today (and my head is still fuzzy , so bear with me....), I think that the following makes sense. I'll add my own observations and ideas, to see what everyone thinks. My comments will be in Purple

My take on Limetiri:

1. Cultist activity piques interest of snooping Inquisition. Tracing the evidence, it implicates the Governor and govt in corruption and treachery. Immediately they are all executed by the wrathful Inquisitor, and replacements appointed under temporary martial law. Guess what... the replacements are all traitorous Limetiri.

We could either have the Governor as an actual traitor, or have Chaos agents plant information to have a staunch Loyalist executed and remove a complication I prefer the later as it appeals to my sense of twisted irony Perhaps the Governor suspected bad apples in his midst and started an investigation. To counter this, he was approached by an Agent, refused to be turned, so "evidence" was planted to get rid of him.

2. Despite this inquisitorial 'purge', cultist activity does not cease, if anything becoming even more widespread. Coupled with the extremely harsh martial law implemented under 'loyal' government, unrest grows to global proportions, and soon there is a secessionist movement on several continents, including a significant portion of the local armed forces who claim freedom from oppression. Civil war breaks out, and help is called out for by the Inquisition. First marines arrive.

3. Despite this, the 'loyalists' seem to always be on the backfoot to the secessionists - plans confounded, secrets exposed, tactics countered, and are bloodily giving ground. Add to this suspicious activity by a number of loyal troops - AWOL, missing, 'destroyed in the field' only to have mysterious look-alikes later spotted on the opposing side. In a brazen act of desecration, a raid on the holy shrine to Petrok steals his bones away, despite heavy security. Conflicts among the Imperium factions break out as the more suspicious astartes begin to accuse others of treachery. The more paranoid astartes/Imperials begin massed disciplinary actions, involving shooting suspected regiments in the back wholesale on the field of battle.

4. The battle for the capital city rages, and the war drags out into a battle of attrition, as soon the entire sector is seemingly engulfed in the spore of treachery and uprising, more forces from both sides arriving/appearing. Significant numbers of heretic movements and traitor marines arrive/reveal themselves and join in the fight against both seccessionists and loyalists. Its a messy conflict, with heavy casualties for all three sides - secessionists, loyalists and the newly arrived/revealed heretics.

I feel that the 'Reavers have been there for some time, although not the entire force. The others were hiding just outside the system waiting for the Loyalists to turn up and then close the system off.

5. Realizing their deception is slipping, the original heresy is finally revealed in full, the Limetiri sleepers revealing themselves among both the 'seccessionists' and loyalists. Mass slaughter and utter confusion reign, as loyalists are caught in the crossfire of heretics, traitors and confused seccessionists (many of whom had no idea of the Chaotic influence of their movement). Identification of friend and foe breaks down among all factions, and it is revealed that the secessionist movement is a cover for the Limetirian Petrok-inspired Chaos heresy (which has different goals to the other heretical movements). The loyalists are badly mauled - yet have a strike of luck. The heretics overestimate themselves, and in their arrogance allow the blood-soaked bones to be paraded at the front of their offense on the evac zone. In the last desperate battle, the astartes kill the heretic Governor and reclaim the bones personally.

Or do they? Perhaps the Traitors feel that if they just retreated and allowed the Imperials the take back the bones, the Loyalists would be very suspicious. In my mind, the 'Reavers give them a "show" to counter this, thus making everything look more credible, and giving the Pantheon a massive sacrifice at the same time

6. The confusion is space, deft counter-boarding actions and Pyrrhic demolitions (warp drive detonations, planet killer ordnance) allow the astartes to blow a hole in the warring factions' fleet blockades at great cost, and escape the treasonous system still in uproar, the bones safely in their grasp.

I quite like this bit Especially as the World left behind becomes a staging ground for the 'Reavers to gain new troops to replenish their losses, even if they get booted off further down the line.

In short, a very bloody, confused, chaotic and drawn-out war.

Even so, what time scale are we going with? Couple of years? Ten? A short war in the Imperium wouldn't be less than that I feel.

I think we're nearly there, but I just want a general consensus now, before we submit this outline

[Banelord]

We could either have the Governor as an actual traitor, or have Chaos agents plant information to have a staunch Loyalist executed and remove a complication I prefer the later as it appeals to my sense of twisted irony Perhaps the Governor suspected bad apples in his midst and started an investigation. To counter this, he was approached by an Agent, refused to be turned, so "evidence" was planted to get rid of him.

I like the twisted irony as well

The overall plot could take centuries, the retrieval of the bones I’d say 10 years but the war I would say could carry on a lot longer. I don’t see all 5 loyal chapters letting something like this go un-avenged, I’d see them rallying and forming a crusade to crush them. or unless the whole planet get sucked into the warp because of it.

[stilettoblade]

I like that expansion of the idea. I also like the additions of the original Governor being falseley accused, and especially that the traitors give the appearance of overextending themselves to start a major battle. I want my Marines to go down fighting against a devious enemy, not against poorly organized madmen.

[Aquilanus]

We could either have the Governor as an actual traitor, or have Chaos agents plant information to have a staunch Loyalist executed and remove a complication I prefer the later as it appeals to my sense of twisted irony Perhaps the Governor suspected bad apples in his midst and started an investigation. To counter this, he was approached by an Agent, refused to be turned, so "evidence" was planted to get rid of him.

I like the twisted irony as well

The overall plot could take centuries, the retrieval of the bones I’d say 10 years but the war I would say could carry on a lot longer. I don’t see all 5 loyal chapters letting something like this go un-avenged, I’d see them rallying and forming a crusade to crush them. or unless the whole planet get sucked into the warp because of it.

I like that expansion of the idea. I also like the additions of the original Governor being falseley accused, and especially that the traitors give the appearance of overextending themselves to start a major battle. I want my Marines to go down fighting against a devious enemy, not against poorly organized madmen.

The 'Reavers are madmen (hence the name, I kinda took the name from these guys and an American Football team ), however, they are (as a whole) savvy enough to know that to achieve their goals they have to lure the Imperium in. This is the best way to do it

Well, unless there are any further thoughts, I think that we're ready to submit an outline to the main thread Ferrata has started Here.

Nice start everyone

[stilettoblade]

The 'Reavers are madmen...

I wasn't saying they aren't madmen, I was saying they aren't poorly organized madmen.

Crazy people make the best enemies, as long as they have some strategy.

[SpecialIssueAmmo]

Yep, the entire conflict was planned by the Limetiri - the loyal Governor framed, deliberately harsh govt policies leading to the secession, intel leaked to the secession, allowing the bones to be stolen, etc. And yes, they also wanted the bones to be regained by the loyalists, which is the final portion of the conspiracy. The vast majority of the cult themselves (including many of its supposed 'leaders', Governor included) don't actually know about the true goal of the conflict and were thus purpously herded into the guns/blades of the loyalists in one last act of treachery. I'm thinking that the Reavers or someone else could in fact be among the true puppet masters behind the scenes...

So the escalation of Bad Guys goes: Governor/cults -> Secessionists -> Secessionists + Heretics -> Secessionists + Heretics + Limetiri = which all contributes to the arch-evil masterplan of the puppetmasters of the conflict - the inner-inner conclave of the Limetiri who don't actually care anything for the fate of the system, only the fate of the bones.

There is obvious room for conflict between traitors as well - the opportunistic heretic factions not aligned to the Limetiri plot/subplot, or the arrival of other Chaos factions that don't especially care about the plan...

I think ten years sounds like a good time period for a war on this scale.

[Aquilanus]

I'm thinking that the Reavers or someone else could in fact be among the true puppet masters behind the scenes...

I think that the 'Reavers are the main culprits in this conflict, but a shadowy force is giving them orders. Who, we can decide later, especially if we involve the Frater in the other parts of this project

[Octavulg]

Well, simple way to involve the Stone Hearts presents itself - trade with the governor.

[Aquilanus]

Well, simple way to involve the Stone Hearts presents itself - trade with the governor.

Okay

I'm wondering what it would be that would make the Stone Hearts get involved specifically? The Governor's disappearance? A shipment of goods that never arrived? Both? As we've established that the Governor is a Loyalist set up for disposal, are the Stone Hearts getting involved because they feel/know that he was framed? Or are they going to be narked that the evidence might cause doubt on their loyalty?

[Octavulg]

I could see the Stone Hearts believing him a traitor, believing him innocent, or just wanting their money. It'd depend heavily on the character of the Cathek involved, and I have very little preconceptions about him right now (complete sociopath is to be avoided, since that's Tyrel, but otherwise the sky's pretty much the limit).

So what do you need them to be?

Edited by Octavulg, 16 June 2011 - 04:10 AM.

[Banelord]

So the escalation of Bad Guys goes: Governor/cults -> Secessionists -> Secessionists + Heretics -> Secessionists + Heretics + Limetiri = which all contributes to the arch-evil masterplan of the puppetmasters of the conflict - the inner-inner conclave of the Limetiri who don't actually care anything for the fate of the system, only the fate of the bones.

There is obvious room for conflict between traitors as well - the opportunistic heretic factions not aligned to the Limetiri plot/subplot, or the arrival of other Chaos factions that don't especially care about the plan...

I think ten years sounds like a good time period for a war on this scale.

I like the whole all on all war thing
Just to make things a bit more confused, you could have a fraction of the Secessionists who suspect the government to be corrupted and are trying to overthrow them to reinstall a more loyal government. Maybe a survivor of the original government organised them? You even have one of the loyal chapter’s help these guys, suspecting the others to be involved. You would end up with a 3 way war, loyalists fighting for a corrupted government, loyalists fighting for suspected traitors and the real traitors.

[Aquilanus]

I could see the Stone Hearts believing him a traitor, believing him innocent, or just wanting their money. It'd depend heavily on the character of the Cathek involved, and I have very little preconceptions about him right now (complete sociopath is to be avoided, since that's Tyrel, but otherwise the sky's pretty much the limit).

So what do you need them to be?

I think of the Governor as a total Loyalist. Being such, I doubt that he would double cross the Stone Hearts, so I reckon they believe he's innocent

So the escalation of Bad Guys goes: Governor/cults -> Secessionists -> Secessionists + Heretics -> Secessionists + Heretics + Limetiri = which all contributes to the arch-evil masterplan of the puppetmasters of the conflict - the inner-inner conclave of the Limetiri who don't actually care anything for the fate of the system, only the fate of the bones.

There is obvious room for conflict between traitors as well - the opportunistic heretic factions not aligned to the Limetiri plot/subplot, or the arrival of other Chaos factions that don't especially care about the plan...

I think ten years sounds like a good time period for a war on this scale.

I like the whole all on all war thing
Just to make things a bit more confused, you could have a fraction of the Secessionists who suspect the government to be corrupted and are trying to overthrow them to reinstall a more loyal government. Maybe a survivor of the original government organised them? You even have one of the loyal chapter’s help these guys, suspecting the others to be involved. You would end up with a 3 way war, loyalists fighting for a corrupted government, loyalists fighting for suspected traitors and the real traitors.

Interesting idea, but I thought about it, and honestly think that the Loyalists would find out once the fighting started where everyone's loyalty lay. Even Sheep can question the Sheppard

[Banelord]

Interesting idea, but I thought about it, and honestly think that the Loyalists would find out once the fighting started where everyone's loyalty lay. Even Sheep can question the Sheppard

Eventually yes they would, after the original heresy is finally revealed in full

1. Cultist activity piques interest of snooping Inquisition. Tracing the evidence, it implicates the Governor and govt in corruption and treachery. Immediately they are all executed by the wrathful Inquisitor, and replacements appointed under temporary martial law. Guess what... the replacements are all traitorous Limetiri.

We could either have the Governor as an actual traitor, or have Chaos agents plant information to have a staunch Loyalist executed and remove a complication I prefer the later as it appeals to my sense of twisted irony Perhaps the Governor suspected bad apples in his midst and started an investigation. To counter this, he was approached by an Agent, refused to be turned, so "evidence" was planted to get rid of him.

2. Despite this inquisitorial 'purge', cultist activity does not cease, if anything becoming even more widespread. Coupled with the extremely harsh martial law implemented under 'loyal' government, unrest grows to global proportions, and soon there is a secessionist movement on several continents, including a significant portion of the local armed forces who claim freedom from oppression. Civil war breaks out, and help is called out for by the Inquisition. First marines arrive.

At first when the chapters start to arrive most would probably suspect nothing and follow the Inquisition and help local forces. But they if they find evidence (planted or otherwise) of the traitors and those they were being helped by a group of “unknown” space marines (I.e the Reavers); this could throw all the chapters under suspicion, it might even be enough for one group to change sides. Or it could even be a case of a chapter intercepting a message about a corrupted government being helped group of “unknown” chaos space marines. They arrive later, guess the marines helping the govenment must be corrupted and attack…...