Sternguard: a Tactical Analysis

[DarkGuard]

@ Grim, you are very right about heavy flamers and meltas, and that's what make them so good together :P.

 

@ Cmdr Shepard, whatever you do don't give the Sternguard a multi-melta. While stationary Sternguard aren't a bad choice when given lascannons or plasma cannons and told to stand at the back of the board, IMO stationary Sternguard in midfield are bad. Considering the nature of them they should spearheading an attack or scooting over the protect a flank or unit, you shouldn't be having them waiting for nothing.

 

With that in mind it comes down to what you want them to do, and what your list lacks. Lacking anti-infantry? Give them a heavy flamer. Lacking anti-tank? Then meltaguns. Always give them about 3 combi-meltas though, that's the amount you'll normally need to take out a Land Raider. If you don't need anything covered and just want a flexible unit then leave the meltaguns at home, and take at least some combi-meltas and a power fist. Take the heavy flamer in this case at your own discretion depending on what you're likely to run up again.

 

Hope this helps :P.

[Cmdr Shepard]

@ Grim, you are very right about heavy flamers and meltas, and that's what make them so good together :P.

 

@ Cmdr Shepard, whatever you do don't give the Sternguard a multi-melta. While stationary Sternguard aren't a bad choice when given lascannons or plasma cannons and told to stand at the back of the board, IMO stationary Sternguard in midfield are bad. Considering the nature of them they should spearheading an attack or scooting over the protect a flank or unit, you shouldn't be having them waiting for nothing.

 

With that in mind it comes down to what you want them to do, and what your list lacks. Lacking anti-infantry? Give them a heavy flamer. Lacking anti-tank? Then meltaguns. Always give them about 3 combi-meltas though, that's the amount you'll normally need to take out a Land Raider. If you don't need anything covered and just want a flexible unit then leave the meltaguns at home, and take at least some combi-meltas and a power fist. Take the heavy flamer in this case at your own discretion depending on what you're likely to run up again.

 

Hope this helps :(.

Indeed it helps. I already decided to use the "three combimeltas/power fist" set up and I needed an advice on the special weapon. I'll model 3 minis with flamers and three with meltaguns (I believe 1 special weapon per squad would be good), so I my unit can be fill both roles.

[Vagrant]

i like to drop my stern in, let them soak up fire while my assault squads and bikes make the way to clean up. sterns dont live long. people know what they can do. they are my draw fire unit. the turn they drop, they wreck havoc and my opponent gets scared.

[DarkGuard]

@Cmdr Shepard: I'm so sorry but I've only just read your post. I must have read it earlier but not remembered, it's been a long week. I think you've got a good plan there, and let us know how they get on.

 

i like to drop my stern in, let them soak up fire while my assault squads and bikes make the way to clean up. sterns dont live long. people know what they can do. they are my draw fire unit. the turn they drop, they wreck havoc and my opponent gets scared.

 

Now while this is a viable tactic Vagrant, I'm not a fan of it. I hope I've accommodated sufficient room for it in the tactica but IMO that's not how Sternguard should be played. These guys are the Veterans of the Chapter, they are the best of the best of the best. And you're chucking them away as a suicide unit, throwing their lives away, you're not going to replace those guys for a while.

 

So as you can see, as well as being competitive I'm thematic, and it seems wrong to me to throw the lives of my Sternguard away, rather they should be used with care and precision, and like most units only throw their lives away when absolutely no other option presents itself, rather than having that in the overall game plan. But that's just my opinion on them :).

[Shadowstalker Grim]

That I suppose sort of crosses over into the game/reality boundry a little...if the game punished you for each loss (provided you used an army that actually cared about any losses) it'd be a real challenge!

 

 

I suppose it could work in a way if you were doing a campaign with many scenarios....eg each marine lost would take so many games to replace, until then the squad would operate at whatever strength it had in the prior game....would make things like wound allocation and supporting units, as well as syngergising, more vital and could be interesting..

 

 

Still as it is every unit we have is a potentially disposable resource that we can use to get a job done, their lives mean little! Sounds all very chaos like eh? Though the longer they live, the more they can contribute...as when you're dead you don't contribute much! Just depends on how you perceive your units. Personally i'd like as many standing at the end of the game as possible, much like yourself DarkGuard!

[thade]

These guys are the Veterans of the Chapter, they are the best of the best of the best. And you're chucking them away as a suicide unit, throwing their lives away, you're not going to replace those guys for a while.

That's more or less what Assault Squads are for, fluff-wise. ;) May I add that Vanguard Veterans also have a very short life expectancy, per the fluff.

 

Sure, your opponent will likely know what a Sternguard can do, but that doesn't mean your only recourse is the throw them away. Keep them with your army, support them, and you can use Tank Shocks! and Assaults to keep them from being focused down prematurely. That special ammo is precious. <3

[Shadowstalker Grim]

Vanguard Veterans also have a very short life expectancy, per the fluff.

 

 

Congratulations new veteran! Now that you've reached this level, all thats left is for you to die amidst a tide of heretics, try kill a few before you die and not to die too horribly so we can recycle your wargear...off you go! :P

[DarkGuard]

Vanguard Veterans also have a very short life expectancy, per the fluff.

 

 

Congratulations new veteran! Now that you've reached this level, all thats left is for you to die amidst a tide of heretics, try kill a few before you die and not to die too horribly so we can recycle your wargear...off you go! :P

 

"Did I say I preferred the chainsword? I meant the boltgun!" :D

[thade]

There's an element to the rules that helps the fluff work. :) And that is that Casualties are not necessarily Dead. Since most of my veterans are named and I'm not about to repaint their shoulder pads/chest scrolls/banners, then each time they are taken casualty, they manage to escape some how. We call this plot-driven durability.

 

Regardless, I never have fewer than two nartheciums on the field, so I leave no one behind...no matter what state they're in.

[Cmdr Shepard]

There's an element to the rules that helps the fluff work. :pinch: And that is that Casualties are not necessarily Dead. Since most of my veterans are named and I'm not about to repaint their shoulder pads/chest scrolls/banners, then each time they are taken casualty, they manage to escape some how. We call this plot-driven durability.

 

Regardless, I never have fewer than two nartheciums on the field, so I leave no one behind...no matter what state they're in.

 

This is exactly my approach to that matter.

 

It's nice to see I'm not the only one who bother to find a name for the miniatures :) . At my local store I'm the only player who does it.

Usually I name HQ, sergeant/veterans and vehicles but recently I decide to name every single model in the army. My GK grand army, for example, features names for every mini. It's getting pretty difficult to find new names: when you buy a new unit or start a new army you risk to run out of names for them :D

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Try naming my horde of Wolves. :)

 

Almighty DarkGuard, would you recommend Sternguard in a Drop Pod list?

[DarkGuard]

Try naming my horde of Wolves. ;)

 

Almighty DarkGuard, would you recommend Sternguard in a Drop Pod list?

 

Or my Nids, which I have started doing :(

 

Almight DarkGuard, I like that :P.

 

I'd say they work well, but id depends on how you use them. They are a great source of melta which is needed for the first wave. Alternatively they are also fantastic anti-infantry which can alpha strike units on foot or come in later when you've disembarked everything. And they can do both if at 10 men.

 

Unless you're taking a MotF then you're limited in good options for Drop Pod melta, all of which are in Elites. It therefore becomes whether you want to pay more points but have a better chance at taking out the tank and perhaps surviving retaliatory fire, or would prefer the cheaper Dread. In the end though, they work well because they can blow apart enemy units and tanks alike, and are therefore flexible. However, they can often become a suicide unit when used this way, which is something I don't like, but don't let that colour your own judgement.

[DarkGuard]

EDIT alert: Added a couple more notes to Pedro and Lysander, while also added a brand new character, Chaplain Cassius!!

 

Will also be looking through this soon for mistakes, updates etc, so if anyone's got any feedback, any real game experience to share etc it'll be much appreciated ;).

[DerekLee688]

I personally don't believe a Librarian/w Gate of Inf. is a replacement for a rhino, maybe a backup. A Librarian in the unit adds a second powerweapon(force weapon at that), a 2nd commander, and even a Heavy/special weapon(avenger mainly). However, to get gate to go off requires a successful psy. test(not garunteed without interference), and a successful deepstrike roll. A gate range of 24"+drift/mishap isn't exactly deployment zone to deployment zone transportation. Your heavy weapons still won't fire after the move and the effective weapon range of 12" or 6" is too short if there is 2d6" of drift at stake. Just go ahead and drop the one body to have a libby+rhino that way you have the rhino to keep the entire squad safe from fire and have something extra if it gets popped.

 

In general, I'd advise against Vengence rounds. 10xSG rapid firing vengeance = 20 chances for get hot, and you're only shooting S:4 at MEQ anyway. You're better off using combi-plasmas and get the +3 S and extra -1 AP, or combi melta's that causes instant death to bikes, terminators, paladins, and any T:4 or blow special characters without eternal warrior.

[DarkGuard]

Thanks for the comments there DerekLee688. I agree with you on the Libby, will edit that to make it a little clearer. It's how I'm using my squad, Null Zone and Gate in a Rhino, Gate being backup for such an important squad.

 

As for Vengeance rounds, the problem is that if you take combi-plasmas you're either passing up on combi-meltas are spending a lot of points. 5pts might not seem like a lot but once you've given a combi weapon to every member thats and extra 50pts in a 10 man squad of models which many feel a little fragile with the normal Marine statline. So 300pts in total and that's even without a weapon for the Sergeant or a Rhino. Vengeance rounds will hurt Sternguard as much as combi-plasma would, and while it won't be as dangerous, it's cheaper, being part of their standard equipment. We can't have everything so we have to choose, and IMO taking combi-meltas to better combat tanks, in particular walkers, is more vital than taking combi-plasma, as you already have Vengeance rounds. It may not be the most efficient thing to use, but its also cheap and allows the unit to be more flexible.

[ak-73]

I think combi-plasma can be given to 5-men SG with 2xLascannons. This is a unit that will easily inspire some fear in a lot of enemy units, especially if it gets out and is ready to shoot next turn. Other than that, c-melta is usually preferable.

 

Oh and I still think Sternguard are best used behind a thin screen of other, cheaper Astartes.

 

Alex

[DarkGuard]

Using Sternguard behind a Tactical Marines and Scouts, we're not the Imperial Guard ^_^.

 

But true, though I'd say that only applies when you can't find a place in cover, otherwise you've got a unit sitting in front of them doing nothing for what? Assaults? In C:SM with our expensive options we can't afford a unit to that, especially when you are running Sternguard.

 

I'll add the combi-plasma note to the weapon config section, good catch there ak-73, I suppose a bit like the old las/plas squads of 4th Ed.

[Bannus]

A well-written tactica over all - bravo! I think for completeness and ease of reading, this tactica should be combined with the ammo article in the Librarium (rather than just a link to it). It makes the material simpler to 'digest' for newer players.

 

I'm suprised to see no mention of bare-bones Sternguard. Without any upgrades at all, they are still quite amazing and versitile (and easier to afford as 10-man squads that can be able to split into combat squads).

 

Any plans on discussing them without any options at all?

[Brother Captain Josef]

Nevermind :)

[Brother Captain Josef]

Ok, so had a good read.

 

Excellent, comprehensive and well edited with all the suggestions of previous posters taken into account.

 

There is nothing much I really can add to this tbh. I too love Sternguard and used them as an example in an article I wrote on math hammering back in ~2009.

 

When it comes to combat upgrades on the Sergeant I really think it's the powerfist or nothing tbh. You quite correctly pointed out that the power weapon is a poor choice in comparison to the lightning claw because of the bolter / bolt pistol conundrum but the lightning claw only out performs the powerfist against creatures that are T3 and there are few T3 creatures that should bother Sternguard in assault. Even in large numbers Sternguard's ammunition will quickly thin out this numerical advantage to more manageable levels prior to said assault.

[DarkGuard]

A well-written tactica over all - bravo! I think for completeness and ease of reading, this tactica should be combined with the ammo article in the Librarium (rather than just a link to it). It makes the material simpler to 'digest' for newer players.

 

I'm suprised to see no mention of bare-bones Sternguard. Without any upgrades at all, they are still quite amazing and versitile (and easier to afford as 10-man squads that can be able to split into combat squads).

 

Any plans on discussing them without any options at all?

 

Thanks bannus, that means a lot :rolleyes:. That may also be a good idea, merging the two articles, who would I ask? The Librarium or the original creator?

 

Also, I will mention the bare bones squad, you are right that just boltguns are fine, it just seems that everyone gets carried away with combis in regards to Sternguard.

 

When it comes to combat upgrades on the Sergeant I really think it's the powerfist or nothing tbh. You quite correctly pointed out that the power weapon is a poor choice in comparison to the lightning claw because of the bolter / bolt pistol conundrum but the lightning claw only out performs the powerfist against creatures that are T3 and there are few T3 creatures that should bother Sternguard in assault. Even in large numbers Sternguard's ammunition will quickly thin out this numerical advantage to more manageable levels prior to said assault.

 

Thanks again, it also seems best to have a topic like this editable based on other people's experience, one person's experience is likely to be weighted and also not thorough.

 

I agree with the lightning claw vs power fist. Again it's a versatility thing, I feel the power fist adds more to the unit than the lightning claw does, and I'd only really use a lightning claw in a Pedro Kantor squad. I'll have a quick, closer review of that section and see what I can do.

 

EDIT: points on barebones squads and lightning claw vs power fist added.

[DarkGuard]

Quick update info, after some recent discussions on various combis I've updated that section to be more extensive, taking time to explain each combi, what it's good at, whether any parts of its use can be covered by existing special ammo, and what weaknesses of the Sternguard it fills in.

[Brother Navaer Solaq]

I find your guide helpful. Is there any chance of update to 7th edition?

 

q. is combi-grav still a bad idea for sternguard because you lose one extra shot for moving?

[Gideon999]

I cant say overall, but I think the prevailing opinion is that grav guns and combi-gravs are only really good on relentless models.   Having to come within 9" to get full firepower is generally a bad plan for fragile marines.   Also, with vengeance rounds and such grav doesn't really give them much they dont already have (especially with the increase in pts for combis).  

 

Overall I would see what other say, but in my opinion at least I think naked sternguard are the best plan for 7th or they just get too expensive.