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14 replies to this topic

#1
Lotaurus

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Edited by Lotaurus, 07 September 2013 - 04:09 PM.


#2
SnakeoilSage

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Looks good! Can't wait to read more.
Check out my homegrown projects:
Nemesis Angels
Star Shields
Codex: Star Shields

#3
Lotaurus

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Small but not significant update and a pic of the armor.

#4
strongbow

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Not to much to go on yet but I thought I'd say that I love the colour scheme :P

#5
Ace Debonair

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Not to much to go on yet but I thought I'd say that I love the colour scheme :)


Seconded.
It's a very busy scheme, but I personally don't consider that a drawback, and the colours work quite well. :HQ:

#6
Lotaurus

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Update on Origin, Organization and Combat Doctrine.

#7
strongbow

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Combat Doctrine

Although the Archons have a bond to the Codex Astartes they follow their own doctrine. They rely heavily upon the liturgies of their Chaplains which strengthen their will and let them fight to the very last man. The Marines are relentless in battle, they throw themselves against the strongest foe until he is defeated. This may lead the Archons near extinction someday, but it never has until now.

Because of Vaan being a Knight World, where the former leaders often arranged tournaments between the different marches, melee combat takes a heavy roll in the chapter's training. And so it does for most of Vaan's residents. But not only the art of hand to hand combat is what is taught in the Temple, alike the handling with every other imperial weapon. Sometimes specialising in the chapter's most favorite weapon: the heavy bolter. It seems old fashioned but the Archons weren't ever seen to use plasma weapons, instead they prefer bolt weapons, flamers or meltaguns. The third Company is an exception, they favor lasercannons before every other heavy weapon.


Ok so you've admitted they might be driven to extinction.

Plasma weapons are generally regarded as rarer weapons. So to an extent if anything, old fashioned chapters may well have more of them. It is your chapter, and of course if you don't want there to be plasma weapons that's up to you. However if you're going to write an IA type thing you need to explain accurately why. In addition to this therefore, why does the third company prefer lascannons over any other weapon? Space marines are quite rational as far as the Imperium goes, they will adapt to the situation. Sometimes a lascannon won't always be the best option. Why would they make life more difficult for themselves? As I've said, it's fine for them to be that way, it's your chapter, but why would they do that?

Also if they are old fashioned, why choose to diverge from the codex astartes? It doesn't get much older than that in the Imperium.

Why do they not follow the codex particular closely? Do they dislike it for a particular reason? Are they successors of another primarch who may have not been particularly fond of the codex (though they all chose to follow it in the end apart from the Space Wolves)

Organization

Like the Codex demands, the Chapter is divided into ten companies. The First is the Veteran Company called the 'Scions of the Firstborn'. Each company has a unique name that refers mostly to the armament and their earnings in battle. Like the 'Spears of Nazar' of the third company or the 'Spectres' of the tenth. The companies distinguish themselves only by this and a number on the right pauldron.

Due to traitorous beliefs, the seventh Company, under the command of Captain Jorus Hand, fought against their own brothers and escaped into the warp. Therefore the Chapter remains with only nine companies. The halls of the seventh Company were sealed shut forever to act as a cenotaph of their betrayal.

Another deviance fom the Codex might be the unusually high amount of Chaplains within the Chapter. Due to their order to held up high the belief in the Emperor on their planet, a high amount of Chaplains is needed and they might be more capable of spreading awe between the humans of Vaan. Every deployment of the Archons is accompanied by at least one alike. Sometimes Chaplains take the leading position of in battles, but they never replace the Company's Captain.


They have more chaplains, yet the entire 7th company became traitorous? It's unusual that this would happen to a reserve company anyway as they rarely fight together in one place, so chances are they are never all at the same place at the same time.

Despite the fact that by their own choice are permanently understrength, they still will happily go to situations where they know they will be wiped out? Determination and stubbornness are of course traits of many chapters and last stands are far from unknown, but surely something as shocking as an entire company going rebel might shock the chapter's foundations and make them value the marines they have left more?

Also, with a rebelling company, what has the inquisition got to say about it? If one company can fall, then so can the rest. You need to expand on what made this company rebel, the impact it had on the rest of the chapter and how outsiders view it. A company of space marines going rebel is not a good thing.

"Like the Codex demands, the Chapter is divided into ten companies" - I thought they only had a 'bond' with the codex? Now they are following demands? The problem is not your choosing to follow the codex, but your language. What would be better for you to say I think is that they agree with the codex on the structure of the chapter, rather than follow demands.

The codex stipulates its organisation presumably because that's the best way, more or less, to do things in the view of the contributors. So, the 7th company is necessary. The chapter has chosen not to replace it. That's fine, but how do they cope being permanently understrength? What impact has it had on their ability to operate? Has the reduced full number of space marines affected their recruitment patterns? The reserve companies exist to support the battle companies. Have they reorganised anything to compensate for the fact that 100 tactical marines are no longer available at all?

Origin

The planet of Vaan was drowning in revolution, several marches fell to the influence of Chaos and a planetary war was going to happen. To prohibit the Chaos forces to spread the Knight of Gryphonne came to help the world's loyal citizens and fought side by side with imperial regiments and armed militias. After several weeks of resistance the last influence of Chaos was purged from this planet and only three marches still loyal to the Emperor survived.

To never let something like this happen again, the High Lords of Terra degreed the founding of a new Adeptus Astartes Chapter. The Archons of Vaan should not only protect the planet against possible coming threads, they also should strengthen the will in the Emperor and spread his word between the people.


I guess I can see why (potentially anyway) the 7th company rebelled. However, why would they recruit from a planet where chaos nearly took over in a civil war? Surely that would put the faith of the inhabitants and therefore recruit pool in doubt?

------------------------------

To sum this up I would say that you are making divergence which is fine, the problem is you haven't yet justified them or explained how the chapter operates with them.

Edited by strongbow, 11 September 2011 - 02:58 PM.


#8
Lotaurus

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Made some small changes.

#9
NightrawenII

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Hello, I'm going to comment what you have here, I'm known for my merciless and unforgiving critique, so be prepared... :P

Origin
Simultaneously, the High Lords of Terra degreed the founding of a new Adeptus Astartes Chapter. The Archons of Vaan should not only protect the planet against possible coming threads, they also should strengthen the will in the Emperor, spread his word between the people and act as somewhat of new rulers.
- You will need more than one planet to warrant a presence of Chapter of Adeptus Astartes. Chapters are created to defend entire sectors, acting as the rapid-response forces.
- If the HLoT wanted to strengthen the faith in the Emperor, they would sent a members of Adeptus Ministorum, the Imperial Church. Space marines are His Finest warriors not preachers.

Homeworld
Vaan is a Knight World where several royal houses provided the upper class.
- Knight World is a very specific classification of planet. It's feudal planet in thraldom of Forge World of Adeptus Mechanicus. I'm not sure how would Techpriests react to such obvious theft of planet.

Because of Vaan being a Knight World, where the former leaders often arranged tournaments between the different marches, melee combat takes a heavy roll in the chapter's training.
~
Another deviance fom the Codex might be the unusually high amount of Chaplains within the Chapter. Due to their order to held up high the belief in the Emperor on their planet, a high amount of Chaplains is needed and they might be more capable of spreading awe between the humans of Vaan.
~
The rest of Vaan's citizens where brought away and the planet was completly repopulized with loyal servants of the Imperium.

- You are basically defeating your own arguments. If the planet was completely repopulized with loyal citizens, then the former customs are all but lost. + The planet wouldn't need any higher attention to the matters of faith.

Organization
Every deployment of the Archons is accompanied by at least one alike.
- According to the teachings of Codex Astartes, one Chaplain is permanently attached to every company.

Engagements & Special incidents
Notable members

- Focus on the battles and individuals is certain path to damnation. This is article about Chapter and its nature, not about Joe the Ultramarine.


Cheers, NightrawenII.

It may seem counterintuitive but in ancient warfare, fleeing from battle was usually a good way to get oneself killed.
~ Jeffrey R. Cox - Cascading Failure: The Roman Disaster at Adrianople AD 378

 

Give the peasants neither life nor death.

~ Tokugawa Ieyasu

 

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.

~ Blaise Pascal


#10
Lotaurus

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@NightrawenII

Point taken.
I'll revise the points you made later today. I guess I have to change the whole planet then. Anyway, thanks for reading!

Concerning the Chaplains: Yes, every company has one, but the CHaplains are always on mission together with their brothers, no matter how big the squad is.

Edited by Lotaurus, 12 September 2011 - 12:49 PM.


#11
Lotaurus

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Any thoughts on the actual concepts?
Before I start to write it as full text.

#12
NightrawenII

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Any thoughts on the actual concepts?
Before I start to write it as full text.

Weeell, there is a few things... :rolleyes:

Origin
Founded to defend the Haborim-Sector against Hive Fleet Leviathan, possible Necron assaults
738.M41 Twenty Sixth Founding - Most Recent Founding
745.M41 Hive Fleet Behemoth
897.M41 First recorded contact with Necrons
993.M41 Hive Fleet Kraken
997.M41 Hive Fleet Leviathan

Geneseed
Rumored Rogal Dorn
Rumored Roboute Guillaume

- Hmm, a cousin of Roboute Guilliman, I suppose?
- Why rumoured? Imperial archivists are bad, but not that bad.
- Btw, Dorn's gene-seed is missing a Belcher's gland and Sus-an Membrane. A quite good clue in geneline-tracking.

Organization
Battle companies have: 5 Tactical Squads, 3 Assault Squads, 2 Devastator Squads and 2 Dreadnoughts.
- Such young Chapter will be lucky to find one Dreadnought chasis in Chapter armoury.

Assault Squads carry Glaives instead of Chain- or Power Swords.
- Glaive is a polearm, I'm not sure if this best choice for squads using jump pack.


Cheers, NightrawenII.

It may seem counterintuitive but in ancient warfare, fleeing from battle was usually a good way to get oneself killed.
~ Jeffrey R. Cox - Cascading Failure: The Roman Disaster at Adrianople AD 378

 

Give the peasants neither life nor death.

~ Tokugawa Ieyasu

 

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.

~ Blaise Pascal


#13
Lotaurus

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In the german codex he's spelled Guillaume, hence the mistake.
Well, about the geneseed: I guess I'll go with Roboute's then.

The glaives will stay. :lol:
But I'll reduce the dreadnoughts.

Edited by Lotaurus, 18 September 2011 - 10:02 PM.


#14
Arkangilos

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In the german codex he's spelled Guillaume, hence the mistake.
Well, about the geneseed: I guess I'll go with Roboute's then.

The glaives will stay. ;)
But I'll reduce the dreadnoughts.


Just remember, assault squads don't need to all have jump packs...

The chapter sounds good so far over all, can't wait to see more.

The name is good, though for some reason (and it is not a good reason ;) ) Archon makes me think of badguys ;)

The worship of the chapter master sounds like a possible problem that could lead to the full chapter turning against the Emperor.

Reading through some previous quotes and what you had before:

7th company rebelling even though there are a lot of chaplains is fine for the following reasons:
-- The worship of the chapter master can do some crazy things
-- Chaplains could have all died while on campaign
-- Chaplains could have been corrupted while on campaign.

Well, thats all I have for now. Good job and keep it up :)

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#15
Lotaurus

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The name is good, though for some reason (and it is not a good reason :) ) Archon makes me think of badguys ;)

The worship of the chapter master sounds like a possible problem that could lead to the full chapter turning against the Emperor.

Reading through some previous quotes and what you had before:

7th company rebelling even though there are a lot of chaplains is fine for the following reasons:
-- The worship of the chapter master can do some crazy things
-- Chaplains could have all died while on campaign
-- Chaplains could have been corrupted while on campaign.

Well, thats all I have for now. Good job and keep it up :)


Well, probably because of the Dark Eldar HQ Archon and the Protoss from Starcraft. ;)
But I'll assure you, they are the good ones.

Worship is probably the wrong word for that, the Chapter Master was and will be the same forever, for his name comes with the armor. So a different marine might be clad in it, but when he becomes the Chapter Master he adopts the name and everything else. So he's not really immortal, but for his enemies.