43 replies to this topic

[Dexo]

HI

I thinking of making a tyranid war veterans army and need some advise to how to repesent them bedst. I want "Cassius" to lead them in to battle so it need to be based of codex spacemarine.

any suggestions ?

[Hellrender]

I believe Sternguard Veterans are the old Tyranic war veterans. With their special ammo, they are also very good fluff wise.

I don't know after this though

[Marshal Wilhelm]

HI

I thinking of making a tyranid war veterans army and need some advise to how to repesent them bedst. I want "Cassius" to lead them in to battle so it need to be based of codex spacemarine.

any suggestions ?

The L bomb will be hitting this thread some time in Europe's morning....

[Legatus]

I thinking of making a tyranid war veterans army and need some advise to how to repesent them bedst.

Heresy!!1

But yeah, "Sternguard Veterans" would seem like the way to go. There is nothing more to it, really.

[Megapope]

Are Tyranid vets uncool or something?

[Legatus]

Pretty uncool, yeah. Mainly because of the whole "being contrary to the Ultramarines theme" thing. Imagine a Dark Angels special liaison unit that journeys to other Chapters and Imperial institutions to teach them about the threat of the Fallen Angels, so that they may better be able to combat them in case they ever come accross them. Or a Black Templars "Pacifier" squad which establishes good relations with aliens, heretics and psykers and seeks peaceful solutions to their issues. That's what the Tyrannic War Veterans are to the Ultramarines.

Edited by Legatus, 07 October 2011 - 10:09 AM.

[Brother Tual]

Some UM fans dont like them for the above reasons which is essentially THE codex chapter diverging from the codex.

From a hobby perspective you can do what you want. A full unit of hunters looks awesome (if you can source the models) and can really add a centre piece to your army. I only have a few of these models and I am running/theory a few lists at the moment with a similar intentions. I am making my hunters unit sergeants with combi flamers (armed the same as the great Cassius himself) So far so good. You can use any dex this way. You dont need sternguard.

[The Emperor's Champion]

Basically, yea. Sternguard.

Legatus hates kids and their newfangled toys on his lawn.

The Tyrannid War Veterans make perfect logical sense. The Codex Astartes was written to handle every type of enemy the author had ever encountered. The Tyranids are something he never considered as existing, so the Codex doesn't handle them very well. Rather than be as inflexible as many people seem to think they are, the Ultramarines decided to horde together their Chapter's Tyranid fighting experience and create units who could work together to master this new threat.
Once they've got the Tyranid fighting doctrine sorted out it'll get added to the Codex Astartes and they'll be completely "Codex" again.

Legatus also hates how they have markings of Tyranid skulls on their armor, as if that was somehow new. Space Wolves wear wolf pelts, Salamanders wear salamander skins, White Scars collect heads, Grey Knights have Daemons getting murdered on their banners, the Ultramarines Chapter Banner has a Genestealer getting shot in the face, the 3rd Company banner has a Genestealer with a sword through his face, but noooooo, the skull of a Tyranid Warrior with a sword through it is just TOO FAR!
*shrug*

[TheDarker]

Every chapter has his icons, and trophies, and if they have decided that Veterans against Tyranids has his own campaign badge... well, it´s not worste that having a skull to represent you´re a sergeant (or imperial, by the way) or similar.

That depends of what do you think of them: Marines that only fight tyranids and (for some people) cannot fight other forces or (in my case) just normal Veterans who have fighted more often the Tyrannids that any other treath and wear icons to tell "i´m dangerous, four-armed bastard".


Also, they are your minis so do what you want ;P

[Captain Idaho]

Ha but to be fair to Legatus, he wasn't actually being critical this time round and was fairly impartial in this topic, merely expressing why some people regard the War Vets as "uncool".

[The Emperor's Champion]

Ha but to be fair to Legatus, he wasn't actually being critical this time round and was fairly impartial in this topic, merely expressing why some people regard the War Vets as "uncool".

I know, and I'm just messin with him. His utter opposition to new things is kinda funny.

[Legatus]

Legatus also hates how they have markings of Tyranid skulls on their armor, as if that was somehow new. Space Wolves wear wolf pelts, Salamanders wear salamander skins

Wolves and Salamanders are revered totem animals of those Chapters, and are their chosen heraldic theme, expressing their nature. The same can certainly not be said about the Ultramarines and the Tyranids.

Grey Knights have Daemons getting murdered on their banners, the Ultramarines Chapter Banner has a Genestealer getting shot in the face, the 3rd Company banner has a Genestealer with a sword through his face

Banners depict a famous achievement or battle. Permanent armour decoration on the other hand sets the theme for the soldiers. Having a Tyranid being shot on a banner says "We fought the Tyranids that time". Tyranid decorations all over the armour says "Tyranid, Tyranids, all the way. Huaa!"

And yes, I would say using a Tyranid head for a Crozius Arcanum definitely goes too far. Imagine the Imperialis (the winged skull, commonly used on chest plates, banner tops, etc.) using an Ork skull instead of a human skull. Or the Crux Terminatus with an Ork or Tyranid skull.

[The Emperor's Champion]

Legatus also hates how they have markings of Tyranid skulls on their armor, as if that was somehow new. Space Wolves wear wolf pelts, Salamanders wear salamander skins

Wolves and Salamanders are revered totem animals of those Chapters, and are their chosen heraldic theme, expressing their nature. The same can certainly not be said about the Ultramarines and the Tyranids.

Grey Knights have Daemons getting murdered on their banners, the Ultramarines Chapter Banner has a Genestealer getting shot in the face, the 3rd Company banner has a Genestealer with a sword through his face

Banners depict a famous achievement or battle. Permanent armour decoration on the other hand sets the theme for the soldiers. Having a Tyranid being shot on a banner says "We fought the Tyranids that time". Tyranid decorations all over the armour says "Tyranid, Tyranids, all the way. Huaa!"

And yes, I would say using a Tyranid head for a Crozius Arcanum definitely goes too far. Imagine the Imperialis (the winged skull, commonly used on chest plates, banner tops, etc.) using an Ork skull instead of a human skull. Or the Crux Terminatus with an Ork or Tyranid skull.

Having it as an armor marking isn't any different than a campaign badge. They're Tyrannic War Veterans. It's their campaign badge.

Having it as a Chaplain's Crozius....that'd be a bit far, but I think it's a mark of Cassius' personal dedication to killing the critters. He hates 'em, and he's gonna beat their faces in with their face.

[Cptn. Palladorus]

Hey Legatus, I found an avatar for you.

[Legatus]

I'll photoshop him on to some Roman Legion general.

Edit: Done.



(I used a different shot from Gran Torino, though. The hard shadow and straight frontal view of the one in the previous post kind of make it hard to work with.)

Edited by Legatus, 09 October 2011 - 02:28 AM.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Hey Legatus, I found an avatar for you.

I don't think there is enough disdain for it to be Legatus

[Seahawk]

Amusing, to be sure, but anyhooooo.....

Or the Crux Terminatus with an Ork or Tyranid skull.

Well, the current terminator librarian model has a horned human skull...sure that's part of the Librarian insignia, but still it tips more towards being daemonic than human, no?

[TheDarker]

I always thinked that one of the ultramarines on the HH Collected Visions has the face of Clint, now i´m more sure

[Legatus]

Well, the current terminator librarian model has a horned human skull...sure that's part of the Librarian insignia, but still it tips more towards being daemonic than human, no?

The 2nd Edition Codex Ultramarines hasd the horned skull as the symbol for Epistolaries. Of its meaning I have no clue. Though considering that a skull with wings is a common Astartes symbol, perhaps a skull with horns is meand more symbolic, and not simply as the skull of a horned creature. But then maybe it is, because an Epistolary has to overcome a servant of the dark gods as some kind of test? Who knows.

[Megapope]

I found it slightly irritating that they're mentioned in current fluff and yet there's no supporting squad formation rules for including them in an Ultramarines list. Clearly one can just decorate up some Sternguard and Vanguard with bits of dead Bugs and label them as tyranid vets but I feel that it's a bit of a patch for something that should either be properly supported or just not mentioned.

Edited by Megapope, 10 October 2011 - 10:00 AM.

[Captain Idaho]

I think there is a better balance in the Codex instead of the 4th Codex. Back then they were a new unit, where now they are a way of thinking instead of a direct break in the Codex.

Essentially, those from Cassius new elite are the same Codex Marines who take extra training to be a considered a Tyranid Hunter. They are a political force more than a break from the Codex, which is why the Codex talks of Cassius' new specialisation as being "perhaps" a break in orthodoxy.

[Antarius]

I don't mind tyranid hunter vets "just" being Sternguard -after all they have the gear and the stats for it.

What I don't get is why Cassius doesn't grant some sort of anti-Tyranid rule. I mean it's basically his whole theme. It wouldn't even have to be army-wide just something like Cantor's rule, but giving Sternguard preferred enemy: Tyranids instead of counting them as scoring units.

[Hellrender]

Thats because Cassius is very cheap (very cheap).

[Antarius]

Yes, but presumably he would pay for such a rule

It just makes me wonder that there's this SC whose whole shtick is fighting the Tyranids (to the extent that it's got Calgar wondering whether it's a good thing) hasn't got anything in his rules related to actually fighting Tyranids.

[Hellrender]

I think the intention of Cassius was to get a nice and cheap special character. Chaplains are oftenly already undervalued to other characters, but Cassius is because of his price, very interesting. Giving him a rule to fight tyranids, making him thus more expensive (and in that case, they should follow fluff and give him a wound extra aswell) would mean he becomes more onesided (good against Nids) and thus far less interresting in small points games against other armies.