Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Magnus, Russ and Horus!

Started by gogmagog , Oct 24 2011 05:31 PM

  • Please log in to reply
56 replies to this topic

#1
gogmagog
Posted 24 October 2011 - 05:31 PM

gogmagog

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 183 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Chapter Name: Blood Angels
Does Magnus ever find out that it was Horus who gave the order to wipe out the 1000 sons, after amending the Emperors orders? I mean he must have sussed some time?

#2
Saa
Posted 24 October 2011 - 05:58 PM

Saa

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 264 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Colchis
  • Chapter Name: Word Bearers and Ultramarines

Does Magnus ever find out that it was Horus who gave the order to wipe out the 1000 sons, after amending the Emperors orders? I mean he must have sussed some time?


Never read any canon confirming it but I would speculate that as the smartest Primarch with a penchant for knowledge.....he would know.

But what's he gonna do with this information? To my memory there's no known animosity between 1k sons and BL so I'm guessing he just holds Russ responsible

Saa

...or something like that
QUOTE (Zincite @ Oct 13 2011, 06:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You still have organs to sell? Hmm, you must be new to the hobby...

QUOTE (Furyou Miko @ Oct 23 2011, 08:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Saa, the way you always sign off makes me cringe, because 'saa' is basically Japanese for 'Or something like that'.

QUOTE (A D-B @ Mar 28 2012, 10:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also, Illuminarum goes WHUNK.


#3
Artein
Posted 25 October 2011 - 10:10 PM

Artein

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 873 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Chapter Name: Black Legion
I don't know, I'm reading The Outcast Dead and from what I've read there Magnus "came" to Terra and broke Emperor's project after the Dropsite Massacre. Not sure how it fits Horus changing orders for Russ....
‘You don't need a Primarch to kill a Primarch.’

Last but One - Black Legion Warband

#4
DarKnight
Posted 25 October 2011 - 10:18 PM

DarKnight

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 238 posts
  • Gender:Male

I don't know, I'm reading The Outcast Dead and from what I've read there Magnus "came" to Terra and broke Emperor's project after the Dropsite Massacre. Not sure how it fits Horus changing orders for Russ....

The traditional story has always been that the Emperor only told Russ to bring Magnus in, but that Horus told Russ to kill Magnus.
Trial Of Blood Part I & II

Prelude To Armageddon

Black blood vomited through corrupted lips as he struggled to speak his last. "I-iron within, iron wi.." His legion's motto was cut short as Soghur ended his life with a final swing of his axe. "You know nothing of iron, traitor," spat the Iron Hand as he strode over his already forgotten enemy.

#5
Artein
Posted 25 October 2011 - 11:18 PM

Artein

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 873 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Chapter Name: Black Legion
But Horus was already a traitor and everyone knew it!
‘You don't need a Primarch to kill a Primarch.’

Last but One - Black Legion Warband

#6
Beef
Posted 25 October 2011 - 11:36 PM

Beef

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 4,214 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Drinking Halls of Fenris or South London as its sometimes called
  • Chapter Name: SPACE WOLVES

I don't know, I'm reading The Outcast Dead and from what I've read there Magnus "came" to Terra and broke Emperor's project after the Dropsite Massacre. Not sure how it fits Horus changing orders for Russ....

The traditional story has always been that the Emperor only told Russ to bring Magnus in, but that Horus told Russ to kill Magnus.



Actually thats not the traditional story, thats the rebooted version, Originally Horus had no part in it.

AMY WINEHOUSE R.I.P
3ForBeef.gif
 

#7
Sabadin
Posted 26 October 2011 - 01:02 AM

Sabadin

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 159 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:the shwa
  • Chapter Name: Blood Angels
This is stretching my memory back, but originally wasn't prospero sacked after the battle for terra in retaliation for joining sides with horus?

#8
DarKnight
Posted 26 October 2011 - 01:39 AM

DarKnight

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 238 posts
  • Gender:Male

I don't know, I'm reading The Outcast Dead and from what I've read there Magnus "came" to Terra and broke Emperor's project after the Dropsite Massacre. Not sure how it fits Horus changing orders for Russ....

The traditional story has always been that the Emperor only told Russ to bring Magnus in, but that Horus told Russ to kill Magnus.



Actually thats not the traditional story, thats the rebooted version, Originally Horus had no part in it.

When was this rebooted?
Trial Of Blood Part I & II

Prelude To Armageddon

Black blood vomited through corrupted lips as he struggled to speak his last. "I-iron within, iron wi.." His legion's motto was cut short as Soghur ended his life with a final swing of his axe. "You know nothing of iron, traitor," spat the Iron Hand as he strode over his already forgotten enemy.

#9
Dominicus
Posted 26 October 2011 - 02:04 AM

Dominicus

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 320 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vancouver, Canada
  • Chapter Name: Iron Brethren
As far as the current edition goes, the Emperor gave the order for Russ to take Magnus prisoner. Horus, knowing Magnus knew of his treachery, played to Russ' superstitious side and convinced him magnus was too dangerous to be left alive. Then, Russ tried to kill Magnus instead of return him to Terra, though Russ actually gave Magnus a chance to surrender, if you read either "A Thousand Sons" or "Prospero Burns"
QUOTE (Silent Speaker @ May 16 2011, 07:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can see it now:
Every Candlemas marines exchange gifts with counterparts in fellow successors - "Oh brother So&So! A powersword? You shouldn't have.... Here, I got you this Ork head from Ulsa Prime..."

QUOTE (Marshal2 Crusaders @ Nov 5 2011, 02:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So.... the Necrons are corresponding in High Gothic now? Does Trayzn have an address? What about a cell phone number? Do he and Inquisitor Valeria text and facebook each other? I hate you Mat Ward. I hate you.

#10
Mr.Havoc
Posted 26 October 2011 - 12:35 PM

Mr.Havoc

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 587 posts

As far as the current edition goes, the Emperor gave the order for Russ to take Magnus prisoner. Horus, knowing Magnus knew of his treachery, played to Russ' superstitious side and convinced him magnus was too dangerous to be left alive. Then, Russ tried to kill Magnus instead of return him to Terra, though Russ actually gave Magnus a chance to surrender, if you read either "A Thousand Sons" or "Prospero Burns"


Spoiler

#11
Beef
Posted 26 October 2011 - 12:49 PM

Beef

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 4,214 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Drinking Halls of Fenris or South London as its sometimes called
  • Chapter Name: SPACE WOLVES

I don't know, I'm reading The Outcast Dead and from what I've read there Magnus "came" to Terra and broke Emperor's project after the Dropsite Massacre. Not sure how it fits Horus changing orders for Russ....

The traditional story has always been that the Emperor only told Russ to bring Magnus in, but that Horus told Russ to kill Magnus.



Actually thats not the traditional story, thats the rebooted version, Originally Horus had no part in it.

When was this rebooted?



When they started the collected visions and the HH series, possibly as Far back as the index astartes articles. 2nd and 3rd edition times Russ was ordered to Prospero by the Emp alone/

AMY WINEHOUSE R.I.P
3ForBeef.gif
 

#12
Chaplain ChonkE
Posted 27 October 2011 - 06:06 AM

Chaplain ChonkE

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,097 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Utah, The Land of Zion
  • Chapter Name: Via Crucis, 27th B.T. Crusade
Outcast Dead sheds alot of light on the surrounding background of the sacking of Prospero, but it doesnt specify if the Emperor told Russ to go out and break his One Eyed Son's spine. I am pretty sure sneaky Horus did that Wolf to Wolf :D

#13
BJORNin83
Posted 29 October 2011 - 04:24 PM

BJORNin83

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 34 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maryland

This is stretching my memory back, but originally wasn't prospero sacked after the battle for terra in retaliation for joining sides with horus?

Originally? Wow I'm so confused now.

AFAIK, Magnus never joined sides with Horus. Russ went to bring Magnus back to Terra peacefully (one of the points of the Prospero Burns book, to show the calmer more dignified side of the Wolves). This was after Nikea and Magnus used the warp to try to warn the Emperor on Terra that Horus was a traitor. When Magnus didn't comply, that's when Russ sacked Prospero and the Thousand Sons. At least thats what I've gathered from the HH books. I don't remember Horus telling Russ anything in Prospero Burns, maybe it was during one of my 'half asleep while reading' spells and then don't remember what I just read :)

Edited by BJORNin83, 29 October 2011 - 04:29 PM.

#14
Sabadin
Posted 03 November 2011 - 12:34 AM

Sabadin

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 159 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:the shwa
  • Chapter Name: Blood Angels
I meant originally as in the mid-90's when the only detailed information about the heresy was 2nd Ed Codex:Chaos and the odd WD articles, but those have been misplaced for a while now so I can't verify the fuzziness of my memory lol.

#15
Sazabi24
Posted 03 November 2011 - 02:01 AM

Sazabi24

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 50 posts
The thing that I'm confused by now is the chronology.

False Gods puts Magnus's breaking through the webway pre-Istvaan III, while the Outcast Dead puts Magnus's breaking through post-Istvann.

Why would Magnus ever bother to warn the Emperor after the dropsite massacre?

#16
Severus6
Posted 03 November 2011 - 02:30 AM

Severus6

    ++ TRUX MARINUS ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 2,921 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Laying in wait, in the hide site,....watching you,...always watching.
  • Chapter Name: Marines Truculent, Death Kings, Warp Hounds

Why would Magnus ever bother to warn the Emperor after the dropsite massacre?


Take your pick; Magnus, in so many ways was the most complex of the Primarchs. He was nearly as wise as his father, certainly more curious and of all his brothers, I think he was the most content with what he had. Knowledge and the use of it was as important, if not more so, than where you found it.

Redemption: "You see Father I am loyal."

Arrogance: "I told you so; had you looked deeper into the abyss as I have, you would have known."

Disdain: Oh Father, if you are so wise, then how can you look upon us as brother wages war against brother. Oh, thats right, you dont care."

Altruism: "I know you will punish me for this, but I feel it is the right thing to do."

Severus6



The rules for both chess and war remain the same: attack, defend, capture, and sacrifice. Win at all costs.

I only use my gun, whenever kindness fails.

#17
Telanicus
Posted 03 November 2011 - 03:33 AM

Telanicus

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,523 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Chapter Name: Sanguinary Crusaders

The thing that I'm confused by now is the chronology.

False Gods puts Magnus's breaking through the webway pre-Istvaan III, while the Outcast Dead puts Magnus's breaking through post-Istvann.

Why would Magnus ever bother to warn the Emperor after the dropsite massacre?


I thought Istvan III was before the dropsite massacre... wasn't III the one where tehy whiped out the loyalist of their own legions?
IA Sanguinary Crusaders The Crusaders of Blood.
IA Primaris Legion The Survivors
IT Unholy Chosen The Chosen of the Unholy Imperium of Cane.
IT Star Saviors The Chapter for the Greater Good.

#18
Jiff
Posted 03 November 2011 - 05:48 AM

Jiff

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 7 posts
I thought Istvan III was before the dropsite massacre... wasn't III the one where tehy whiped out the loyalist of their own legions?
[/quote]




I thought so also. III was when they used the life-eater virus bomb.

#19
BJORNin83
Posted 03 November 2011 - 07:58 PM

BJORNin83

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 34 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maryland
Correct. Istvaan 3 is when Horus unleashes the virus bomb, and sadly the last time we hear of Loken and company :( Istvaan 5 is the drop site massacre

Magnus warned the Emperor pre-3 I believe

#20
Artein
Posted 04 November 2011 - 01:31 AM

Artein

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 873 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Chapter Name: Black Legion
BJORNin83, you should buy Garro audiobooks.
‘You don't need a Primarch to kill a Primarch.’

Last but One - Black Legion Warband

#21
The emperors chosen
Posted 04 November 2011 - 02:55 AM

The emperors chosen

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 947 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Warp
  • Chapter Name: Storm Ravens

Correct. Istvaan 3 is when Horus unleashes the virus bomb, and sadly the last time we hear of Loken and company :rolleyes: Istvaan 5 is the drop site massacre

Magnus warned the Emperor pre-3 I believe

One of the last lines in Galaxy in Flames has some mention of the fleet hearing word from Magnus the Red. This takes place after the actual batle on Istvaan III, when they are preparing for the drop site massacre.
QUOTE (Big King Bob @ Apr 24 2008, 01:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Finds a lab? with computers? accesses the sum total of human knowledge up to the DAOT?
DAMN YOU WIKIPEDIA!!! DAMN YOU!!!

QUOTE (maligncomedy @ Oct 4 2009, 06:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And the Lord of Change had spoketh, "Make up with the Wolves, young sorceror, for their codex will destroy ye soulless arses, thanks to the blasphemy that is Phil Kelly", and then it was done.

"In the darkness all men are equal, save those that embrace it." -Captain Kayvaan Shrike, third company, Raven Guard
QUOTE (Thantoes @ Mar 8 2010, 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Im all for sculpted torsos but really.....Nipples????

#22
BJORNin83
Posted 04 November 2011 - 04:52 PM

BJORNin83

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 34 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maryland

BJORNin83, you should buy Garro audiobooks.

I've thought about it. I guess there's stuff in there I need to know? :-)

#23
LPetersson
Posted 04 November 2011 - 05:46 PM

LPetersson

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,184 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK
  • Chapter Name: Space Wolves

Why would Magnus ever bother to warn the Emperor after the dropsite massacre?


My guess is that Graham McNeill screwed up and got his chronology wrong...

QUOTE (Aurelius Rex @ Apr 19 2009, 11:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
“The Emperor protects, but we must also protect The Emperor.” -Lorgar, after seeing The Emperor entombed within the Golden Throne
QUOTE (==Me== @ Mar 15 2009, 02:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Like everything else in the Imperium, Space Marine vehicles are powered by skulls, purity seals and screaming bald men.


When the sun goes down, she hunts...pants AdeptusMe, Myself & IAre Blood Angels cowards?

#24
gogmagog
Posted 04 November 2011 - 06:08 PM

gogmagog

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 183 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Chapter Name: Blood Angels
Because the warp is unreliable plus the Chaos powers were throwing a spanner in the works as well!

#25
Lord Ragnarok
Posted 04 November 2011 - 09:19 PM

Lord Ragnarok

    ++DIMICATIO FORMIDOLOSA++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 8,055 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chasing Huron and Lorek in the Maelstrom
  • Chapter Name: Vlyka Fenryka
From my knowledge of changes. Starting with oldest to newest.

1. The Emperor sent Russ to Prospero after he was warned about Horus. This was before the Emp. knew of the treachery but was still pissed due to the tearing the defenses ensuring chaos could not enter the palace due to Magnus's intrustion (HH artbooks Collected Visions)

2. Horus changes the order that Russ should bring Magnus back in chains to destroy every Tson in sight. The Emperor still didnt know Horus was a traitor.

3. "A thousand sons", The wolves were sent to Prospero, but no mention of Horus changing the orders. Everything is implied that the Emperor sent the wolves on a death mission (I think this is true, memory a little fuzzy). It is unclear during Magnus's intrusion if the Emperor already knew of the treachery

4. SPOILER for OUTCAST DEAD!!!!!!!--->
Spoiler
. There is a lot going on in this book so can't remember. This is the most divergent of the path we were on. And quite puzzling.

Edited by Lord Ragnarok, 04 November 2011 - 09:20 PM.

gallery_12375_5740_34637.jpg gallery_12375_5740_68090.jpg

"This is not the first time you've been left to fate. I can see it in your manner. It takes something from you doesn't it? Being deserted hallows you out and leaves a void inside. People might say that it hurts, that the psyche aches from the wound. It's not true though. Abandonment does not leave pain. You wished it did because that would be better than the truth. It leaves nothing. Not hope, not pain, not forgiveness."

 

Back to + THE HORUS HERESY +


1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

  1. The Bolter and Chainsword
  2. → +FRATER DOMUS+
  3. → + THE HORUS HERESY +