108 replies to this topic

[Marshal Wilhelm]

interesting.. all the second founding UM chapters... that's a lot


So the bad guys get their ass kicked.. again.. I would like to see a novel where chaos actually crush the imperialists..

Its called 'The Siege of Terra'. Chaos pwns, gets distracted and so drops the ball, then realise they've missed their window.

Or, when the HH series in done, you can read 'The Iron Cage' where Dorn almost commits seppuku on his Legion.

That's if the Istvaan happenings were not enough for you

[Brule the Spear-Slayer]

A while back A D-B asked the Ultramarines forum for some Second Founding chapters he was going to put in Void Stalkers. Essentially the Night Lords would fight a Codex Chapter and lose, badly. I am really hoping that bit is still in the novel.

It is. That's the Battle of Tsagualsa. It's only a flashback, but it's most definitely there.




‘That makes it seem so placid. No, Variel, it was much worse than that. With the primarch gone, we’d been decaying for years – scattering to the stars, guarding our own supplies from the claws of our brothers as much as from the preying hands of our enemies. But at the end of it all, when the grey sky caught fire with the contrails of ten thousand drop pods, that was the day a Legion died.’

Variel felt his skin crawling. He loathed being near any expression of emotion, even the bitterness of old memory. But curiosity forced his tongue.

‘Who came for you?’ he asked. ‘What size was the force to dare attack an entire Legion?’

‘It was the Ultramarines.’ Talos lowered his head, surrendering to the memory now.

‘A thousand warriors?’ the Apothecary’s eyes widened. ‘That’s all?’

‘You think in such small terms,’ Talos chuckled. ‘The Ultramarines. Their sons. Their brothers. Their cousins. The entire Legion, reborn after the Heresy, wearing hundreds of icons of new allegiance. They called themselves the Primogenitors. I believe their descendants still do. To us, they were still the Thirteenth Legion.’

‘You mean the Ultramarines’ successor Chapters.’ Variel could almost picture it now. ‘How many of them?’

‘All of them, Variel,’ Talos said softly, seeing the sky once again on that distant day. ‘All of them.’

This is enough of a teaser to make me go back and buy every book in the series. I can't wait to read the rest of the details on the Battle of Tsagualsa.

Spoiler

And if the information currently available tells us anything, we know that the Accusers were "never there."

Looking forward to this.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

So the bad guys get their ass kicked.. again.. I would like to see a novel where chaos actually crush the imperialists..

I'd like to direct your attention to Storm of Iron. . .

[Marshal2 Crusaders]

And the entire Word Bearer series.

[Cpt Uriel Ventris]

And Flesh and Iron, also Blood Reaver had a few bits of the NL putting the beat down on the Imperials.


/Ventris.

[Zincite]

Perhaps more annoyingly, I've started to believe it depletes the mythos a little; it steals the majestic legendary feel of the setting, in favour of some arbitrary ironclad fact that is either conflicted by X, or destined to be retconned by Y.

Heh. That's why I'm not in favour of definite canon.

[Deus Ex Ferrum]

Perhaps more annoyingly, I've started to believe it depletes the mythos a little; it steals the majestic legendary feel of the setting, in favour of some arbitrary ironclad fact that is either conflicted by X, or destined to be retconned by Y.

Heh. That's why I'm not in favour of definite canon.

I understand the idea and can see the draw there, but I can't agree with it. As a history buff and a guy with a memory for details, I am my groups' resident fluff expert. Whenever there are conversations ("arguments" might be too strong a word) about the fluff, or discussions of major events in the 40K timeline, I am invariably the one who settles the disputes -- and its very hard to settle such disputes when there is a dearth of cold, hard facts to rely on.

And to me, there's something much more majestic and legendary when there are hard facts involved. Here's an example.

"The full host of Horus' Traitor Legions was arrayed against the walls of the Palace, their numbers increased by the presence of Imperial Army brigades sworn to the Warmaster's service. The Word Bearers drove before the army a host of daemons and warp-spawn, and behind them, Titans began their initial bombardment of the walls, seeking to force a breach while simultaneously keeping the heads of the outnumbered defenders down."

Or.

"The full host of the Traitor Legions -- over five hundred thousand strong, the greatest collection of Astartes that the universe had ever seen -- was arrayed against the walls of the Palace. Interspersed amongst their ranks were fifty-three full divisions of the Imperial Army, adding another two million men and thousands of tanks and artillery pieces to Horus' order of battle. The Word Bearers drove, before the army, a host of daemons and warp-spawn, and behind them, the full strength of three full Titan Legions began their initial bombardment of the walls. The defenders, outnumbered more than five-to-one, were forced to keep their heads down while the Titans sought the first breach in the walls."


The first one impresses the reader with the fact that the defenders are outnumbered and Horus' army is nothing to sneer at. The second makes the situation sound truly desperate and thus the victory, when it comes, is all the more epic in its scale. But that's just me.

[A D-B]

Perhaps more annoyingly, I've started to believe it depletes the mythos a little; it steals the majestic legendary feel of the setting, in favour of some arbitrary ironclad fact that is either conflicted by X, or destined to be retconned by Y.

Heh. That's why I'm not in favour of definite canon.

I understand the idea and can see the draw there, but I can't agree with it. As a history buff and a guy with a memory for details, I am my groups' resident fluff expert. Whenever there are conversations ("arguments" might be too strong a word) about the fluff, or discussions of major events in the 40K timeline, I am invariably the one who settles the disputes -- and its very hard to settle such disputes when there is a dearth of cold, hard facts to rely on.

And to me, there's something much more majestic and legendary when there are hard facts involved. Here's an example.

"The full host of Horus' Traitor Legions was arrayed against the walls of the Palace, their numbers increased by the presence of Imperial Army brigades sworn to the Warmaster's service. The Word Bearers drove before the army a host of daemons and warp-spawn, and behind them, Titans began their initial bombardment of the walls, seeking to force a breach while simultaneously keeping the heads of the outnumbered defenders down."

Or.

"The full host of the Traitor Legions -- over five hundred thousand strong, the greatest collection of Astartes that the universe had ever seen -- was arrayed against the walls of the Palace. Interspersed amongst their ranks were fifty-three full divisions of the Imperial Army, adding another two million men and thousands of tanks and artillery pieces to Horus' order of battle. The Word Bearers drove, before the army, a host of daemons and warp-spawn, and behind them, the full strength of three full Titan Legions began their initial bombardment of the walls. The defenders, outnumbered more than five-to-one, were forced to keep their heads down while the Titans sought the first breach in the walls."


The first one impresses the reader with the fact that the defenders are outnumbered and Horus' army is nothing to sneer at. The second makes the situation sound truly desperate and thus the victory, when it comes, is all the more epic in its scale. But that's just me.

I see the appeal of both; I've gone from one extreme to slowly preferring the other (especially based on fandom attitudes and feedback) but the example in prose there is a bit, like, specifically written to prove a point. It'd be just as easy to write something epic in scale designed to prove the other point.

[Deus Ex Ferrum]

I see the appeal of both; I've gone from one extreme to slowly preferring the other (especially based on fandom attitudes and feedback) but the example in prose there is a bit, like, specifically written to prove a point. It'd be just as easy to write something epic in scale designed to prove the other point.

Yeah, that's a fair point, and I'm certain your prose is better than mine.

[Candleshoes]

I see the appeal of both; I've gone from one extreme to slowly preferring the other (especially based on fandom attitudes and feedback) but the example in prose there is a bit, like, specifically written to prove a point. It'd be just as easy to write something epic in scale designed to prove the other point.

This is an interesting point, one that actually goes far beyond the mentioned genre.

Even if you go back to Homer's Illiad, in portions of his work, he uses more prose and descriptive illiteration than almost what seems necessary, to the point of no longer needing to use character's names, but a simple descriptive word identifier.

However, this is almost balanced out by the ball achingly precise descriptions of the forces involved (especially in the begining) setting entire paragraphs dedicated to exact information on each city state: numbers of troops, formations, specialities, titles, champions, accomplishments, supplies etc.

Both have their place and both hit home with readers, especially in context. Balance is nice and probably makes the reader appreciate both methods a little bit more.

[A D-B]

I see the appeal of both; I've gone from one extreme to slowly preferring the other (especially based on fandom attitudes and feedback) but the example in prose there is a bit, like, specifically written to prove a point. It'd be just as easy to write something epic in scale designed to prove the other point.

Yeah, that's a fair point, and I'm certain your prose is better than mine.

Before 11am, a six-fingered sewer goblin has better prose than me, so I wouldn't count on it.

But either way, I definitely see your point. I didn't mean to diminish it with my last post; it's a perfectly valid angle, and one of the ones I bounce into myself, depending on what I've read recently.

[Molloch]

I see the appeal of both; I've gone from one extreme to slowly preferring the other (especially based on fandom attitudes and feedback) but the example in prose there is a bit, like, specifically written to prove a point. It'd be just as easy to write something epic in scale designed to prove the other point.

Yeah, that's a fair point, and I'm certain your prose is better than mine.

Before 11am, a six-fingered sewer goblin has better prose than me, so I wouldn't count on it.

But either way, I definitely see your point. I didn't mean to diminish it with my last post; it's a perfectly valid angle, and one of the ones I bounce into myself, depending on what I've read recently.

Both styles have a point, and the Siege of the Emperor's alace example is a good one. It's just that when you see definite numbers used without adjectives or any sense of drama, it becomes dull in my opinion.

[Captain Semper]

I think the best style would be somewhere in the middle. Although I like the pseudo-historic style, the constant need to quantify everything takes away from the fantasy element of the lore. Some things should be left to imagination and common sense. However it is also a necessity to give a measure for measure... Some sense of scale is required as in how many marines for example are "a lot of marines"? 100? 1,000? 100,000? If we get that a Legion (that is a formidable force) is about 100,000 on average we get that 5 legions is an awesome and nigh unstoppable force. We don't need to know that there were 543,234 marines present. We get it. Counting the rounds in the bolter won't make the story more beleivable, it will make it boring...

Edited by Captain Semper, 23 November 2011 - 05:06 PM.

[diabloelmo]

As someone who has started a Night Lords army purely because of A-D-B's books, I'm so very frakking excited about this...

[vonny]

woohoo! an epic ending to easily my favorite series from the black library, and that is counting the horus heresy?

perhaps sad farewells will be said, perhaps not, but I know I'll buy this book the day our local GW has it in stock.

[Gree]

I'm not sure this is the ending. A D-B said he planned for six novels.

[Captain Semper]

I'm not sure this is the ending. A D-B said he planned for six novels.

First I hear about it! Is this still the case? Sounds intriguing!

[Zincite]

I'm not sure this is the ending. A D-B said he planned for six novels.

I'm pretty sure he also stated, more recently, that this was the ending of the series, but it might be carried onwards for a second trilogy later.

As the saying goes: I dunno.

[HellChyld]

as a night lord player all this adds is a reason for me to hate ultramarines and their successors that much more! but it also adds to the modeling possiblities. Thanks A D-B now i have a reason for ultramarine successor armor pieces as trophies.

[Kurgan the Lurker]

http://www.blacklibr...o-the-Void.html

Tuesday 21st of February, 2012

INTO THE VOID

The Night Lords have a different method of warfare from most Chaos Space Marines. Not for them the berserk assaults of the World Eaters or psychic barrages of the Thousand Sons – no, the Night Lords are all about lurking in the darkness and stabbing their foes when they aren’t looking. So what would happen when they’re forced into open battle, when they are attacked in such force that their usual tactics simply wouldn’t work? Aaron Dembski-Bowden wondered the same, and decided to explore the idea in Void Stalker, the final book in his Night Lords trilogy:


In the years following the primarch’s death, more and more warbands cut loose from Tsagualsa’s skies and took their raiding deeper into the Imperium. Many were already carving out havens in the Great Eye with the other Legions, spending as much time waging war against former kin as against the minions of the False Emperor.

A battlefleet of staggering size rested above the grey world’s barren face, each warship marked by the winged skull of the Eighth Legion. Here was a fleet that could devastate entire solar systems. It had done so before, many times.

Across the Tsagualsan System, rifts in reality tore open in the silence of the void. They bled foul, daemonic matter into the clean silence of real space, while shuddering battleships strained their way back into the material universe. As with almost all warp flight, there was little cohesion, no alignment of arrival vectors and formations maintained through the rage of empyrean flight. Instead, one by one, the invaders burst from the warp and powered towards the grey world.

At first, they matched the Night Lords’ numbers. Soon, they overshadowed them. As the battle began, by the time the skies of Tsagualsa started to burn, they eclipsed the Eighth Legion fleet completely. More warships arrived with each passing minute, vomited from the warp and streaming trails of poisonous mist.

They needed no formation. They needed no strategic assault plan. That many ships needed nothing else to win a war. The Primogenitor Chapters, the Thirteenth Legion in all but name, had come to end the cancer of heresy once and for all.

[Tomlev40]

It is written by ADB.
I'm happy

[Seahawk]

Hooray, more Ultramarines into the mix!

[Brother Nihm]

no, the Night Lords are all about lurking in the darkness and stabbing their foes when they aren’t looking.

Yeah.

[Irbis]

Here was a fleet that could devastate entire solar systems.

There is only one Solar system

Sorry, just a private pet peeve of mine.

[Trevak Dal]

Here was a fleet that could devastate entire solar systems.

There is only one Solar system

Sorry, just a private pet peeve of mine.

I thought the Terran home system was/is referred to as the 'Sol' System, where as a 'Solar' System is a generic star system?