21 replies to this topic

[Major Silva]

I was wondering which dex would be the best one to run as a pre heresy Emperor's Children and I haven't been able to decide but I am leaning towards Space Wolves. Any thoughts are highly welcomed and needed.

[-Max-]

There's an entire subforum dedicated to the Emperor's Children called the Legion of Excess, and I'd venture to say that if you used the search function there'd probably be a thread or two about this very subject.

Outside of that, probably the regular Space Marine codex.

[G3rman]

Eh, I would suggest the Horus Heresy Section myself for obvious reasons.

Space Wolves wouldn't make much sense, they are all about being wild and divergent from rules and just having their own style. EC are all about perfection in all arts of warfare so of course you would lean toward the vanilla codex, or perhaps the chaos codex for some particular items/units in it.

[Wysten]

Probably Blood Angels, they sound very flash bang fighters to me, sweeping in with swift, gracefully paced squads to hack through the foe.

Otherwise codex. I imagine beyond a drop pod force, most other codexes are simply too different to be lined up otherwise, while blood angels is essencally codex marines with a more assualt/speed oriented codex so that they appear more codex (not a bad thing within this context, blood angels is brillent for assualty marine lists.

[Hemal]

Given their relatively lower numbers initially, ECs tended to be wary of close assault. I would suggest Sternguard heavy C:SM, even assault squads would be Vangaurds rather than "regular" assault squads

[Major Silva]

The thing about Space Wolves is that the grey hunters or my normal tac squads would have both a bolter and a pistol w/ CCW to as perfecting both shooting and assault. The HQs are great just with the amount of upgrades and versatility lets me make my own hero to fight where i could not get as many options from another dex. also the wolf guard are the champions of the squads as being their leading and who they look up to. also i could take the long fangs as a perfect anti armour for the squads of EC going to annihilate them.
Also when did the Land Raider Redeemer come around in the fluff?

[the jeske]

after heresy . but I wouldnt bother with it much , it is a very bad tank if you want a LR take the crusader[also post heresy] or even the normal one .
codex sm is good because it gives specials for builds you may want to do [razorspams , bike lists , sternguard lists etc] . SW have tons of options and EC back in heresy days were known for their criss crossing fire support units and graceful conter attacks . If dudes with counter attack and dudes that can split fire are not EC , I dont know what is .

[Major Silva]

Also if anyone knows some good fluff reading besides the book Fulgrim please post it. I need some good reading material (online or books)!

[NemFX]

You need.. more than Fulgrim?


Kidding aside, the implication I got from that book is that they have at least one dreadnaught and either a devistator or obliterator squad (the captain guy says he wants cover fire heavy enough to walk on)

As for rulebooks, I'd say Blood Angels also, because then you could have the red thirst be described as striving for victory, you could use Lucius as he's described in the book easily, Eidolon could be using the excecutioner guy, and Fulgrim himself could use exhanguinators rules.

[Major Silva]

Didn't Eidolon use a shield with his hammer? I think he did but I can't find it.
Personally I do not want to use special characters as other people. I would rather build my own than use one "pre" made. I really enjoy making my own commander or basing one off of a character from the story.Besides, i prefer counter attack over the red thirst. it is more reliable and not as easily failed.
I am going for a fluffy army and not a win at all costs. This is my "fun" army and I am tired of blasting everything off the table without thought (because I do play Guard but this is a Marine forum). Ill try to post up a list in the next couple of days in the list section of... well idk whether it should go into the other marine places or the Emperor's Children one.

[Canardwc]

I was wondering which dex would be the best one to run as a pre heresy Emperor's Children and I haven't been able to decide but I am leaning towards Space Wolves. Any thoughts are highly welcomed and needed.

For pre heresy, best codex for me is just here : http://www.tempusfug...-expansion-pack

[Brother Nihm]

Also if anyone knows some good fluff reading besides the book Fulgrim please post it. I need some good reading material (online or books)!

There's a few bits of lore here:

The Emperor's Children/Slaanesh

BACKGROUND ARTICLES:
Index Astartes I.

Liber Chaotica: Slaanesh.

UK White Dwarf: #200, Manflayer - Fabius Bile, by Andy Chambers.

UK White Dwarf: #206, Requiem Of Pain - Rules and background for Noise Marines in 40K.

UK White Dwarf: #235 Wheels of Fire - Doomrider.

UK White Dwarf: #255, Index Astartes First Founding - Children of the Emperor, the Emperor's Children Space Marines, by Chris Cook.

UK White Dwarf: #278 Heroes & Villains of the 41st Millennium - Fabius Bile.

NOVELS:
Novel: Horus Heresy: Galaxy in Flames, by Ben Counter. Galaxy in Flames details the virus-bombing of Istvaan III and Warmaster Horus' ultimate fall into madness.

Novel: Horus Heresy: Fulgrim, by Graham McNeill. Fulgrim centers around the Primarch of the Emperor's Children Legion, as he and his Legion became the Chosen of Slaanesh, the Dark Prince of Chaos. Ferrus Manus and his Iron Hands also play a prominent role in the novel, and the pivotal Battle of Istvaan V is described in detail.

Novel: Sons of Dorn, by Chris Roberson. Arch-Traitor Sybaris and his Emperor's Children warband go up against the Imperial Fists.

Short-story: The Dark King, by Graham McNeill.

[Doghouse]

Go with whatever codex suits your style of play is the most honest answer I can give. That's the beauty of pre-heresy, there are no hard or fast rules and you can use which ever codex you want including the chaos renegades codex.
The key to distinguishing them is the colour scheme and the wargear carried by any named characters in the novels, but beyond that use the one that you feel suits the army best.
Legions were enormous by today's standard and you could easily apply several different codexes to the same Legion but representing different fighting styles of different companies.

[Major Silva]

Sorry guys but I have not been on in a while. I really appreciate the reading material Brother and all the comments. I have chosen a codex for it :Space Wolves. It was a difficult choice. It's going to be a mostly drop pod force with a handful of vehicles/ non mobile fire support. I will try to post the list up in a couple days but no promises. Thanks again guys and come back later to check out the list!

[Crimson Hawk]

Blood Angels. They are the only ones who have loads of independent Apothecaries. But in the end, pretty much any SM codex could fit them, it's only if you want to spam Apothecaries. Oooooorrrrrr, you could use the ( awesome ) PH rules from the Tempus Fugitives site.
Edit- I got ninja'd! But, I still recommend the TF rules.

Edited by Crimson Hawk, 22 January 2012 - 05:38 PM.

[Major Silva]

Wow... Just looked at those Tempus Fugitives rules. Like the rules for the EC but,
I fell in love instantly with the Thousand Sons on the spot. Both fluff wise ( after researchof coures) and those rules. I HATE it that they are unofficial
Now time to convince my friends to let me use them! But no primarchs (of course)
Thank You all.

[Zerib]

I was in a similar boat as you, but post heresy, trying to determine which codex to use. I ended up settling on SW for the Long Fangs, Counter Assault and the Thunder Cav. Sadly though now I am trying to determine what best to use as Thunder Cav... but that's a different subject. At the end of the day go with what you feel your going to enjoy converting and painting as well as playing. Worst case scenario you can always swap Codexs as its not too hard to change a count as army.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I really don't think there is anything you could use to represent the Thunderwolf Cavalry. I hate to sound like a judgemental arse, but pick the codex that can best represent your force, not the one that has the most awesome gear that's really powerful. If you're having to go "well, this unit is awesome, now to hand-wave an excuse as to why I'm using them", then they shouldn't be in the list.

Edit: I should clarify. I'm a fan of counts-as myself, I just think that counts-as should be used to give your army the best representation, not to hand-wave powerful units into your army. We've got enough cynics out there accusing us counts-as-ers of powergaming, without people going "well, Thunderwolf cavalry is awesome. I'm going to use the Wolf codex, and come up with some illogical fluff to justify marines riding monsters in my army".
Of course, I have no problem with it if you come up with a kick-ass excuse, like the Berzerkers riding on Juggernaughts that some people do. However, I simply cannot see a logical explanation in a pre-Heresy Emperors Children army. They just didn't do that sort of thing. Bikes, yes. Jetbikes, yes. Landspeeders, yes. Marines riding around on freaks of nature, no.

To put it another way, I could come up with a crappy reason why my Grey Knights army is using the Daemons codex. However, just because I can hand-wave an explanation, doesn't mean it's a good excuse. In my opinion, the Emperors Children, pre-Heresy, should use the Marine codex, not any of the divergent ones. The standard one represents them perfectly, without having to come up with numerous explanations for why having unit X was a good idea. Want to represent the "perfection" side of them? Take Sicarius, and carefully choose what Veteran skill to take. Having an armoured spear-head? Take Chronus. Scouts? Telion, and so on. Or, just use them default, as they were during the Crusade. They were damned good at what they did, but they didn't have any of the extreme cultural quirks that some other Legions did. They're like the Ultramarines in that sense. Just, you know, better.

Edited by Lord_Caerolion, 18 April 2012 - 11:34 AM.

[king tiger 101]

Picking the wolf codex really does not sound like "this codex best represents my choice of army" it sounds allot more like "this codex has powerful unfluffy stuff in...but if I paint it purple and gold I can just pretend it works"

[Zerib]

Everyone has their own reasons and or opinions. I just feel that SW represent how I view and will play the EC post heresy.

[Lord_Caerolion]

So how can you possibly represent them properly? The Long Fangs and special rules might work, but not Marines riding around on massive creatures. That's not what pre-Heresy Emperors Children are like. They didn't do that. What fluff are you basing their use of Thunderwolf-esque creatures?


Wait, wait, you're talking about post-Heresy? Ok, I misread your post, and though you were discussing pre-Heresy EC as well. In that case, I'm all for it. For what to use, maybe have them as the stereotypical "knights in shining armour"? Massive warhorses, mirror-sheen armour, etc?

[Zerib]

I can see where it would have seemed that I was saying to use them for pre-Heresy but it would be for my post-Hersesy EC. I agree that pre-Heresy would generally not be ridding around on mounts. For my army I was thinking about using something like:

http://www.dakkadakk...22.page#4172580
or
http://www.dakkadakk...22.page#4071592

The I cant find the one I really liked but its almost a combination of the two. I think it was made from Ogre bodies and Grotesque bits. Not sure how I feel about it though. The idea of Fabius Bile making monster's out of EC and giving them a bunch of drugs basically. I tried the rider route but I cant find anything that I like or looks half way good. Juggernauts just dont fit, horses.... I saw some ok conversions with Chaos Knights but I'm not sold. I really like the Lord of Slaanesh ( http://www.games-wor...dId=prod1050024 ) but for $30 it is rather high. Fiends would just be a pain to convert and I cant see a way to make them work from when I have tried to make them mounts. Seekers of Slaanesh are another nice model but Space Marines just seem too big on them.

I am still working on what to do but I am leaning on the first idea of something that looks like the converted Grotesques.

Edited by Zerib, 20 April 2012 - 06:17 AM.