17 replies to this topic

[TJWyrm]

2000 pt Rush list
Lord slaanesh, Daemon Wpn, wings, mbomb 160

Greater Deamon 100

9 chosen champ, 3 pair of LC, pw, Slaanesh Icon 267

5 terminators pfist, combiflamer, chaos glory 175

7 Plague Marines 2 melta, champ w/pfist, Icon -- 226
rhino dozer 40

10 CSM 2 flamer, champ w/pfist, khorne Icon 230
rhino dozer, exarmor 55

10 CSM 2 plasmagun, champ w/pfist 220
rhino exarmor 50

7 summoned deamons 91

2 oblits 150

Land raider exarmor 235

Basic plan is for the Lord to join the Chosen in the Landraider, termis and deamons in reserve, everything else deployed.
then the army rushes forward under covering fire of the oblits, summoning the deamons and termis with the Icons.

I played 2 games vs Blood Angels today, won both pretty handily, though I was helped in the second game by some poor rolling on his part.
The Lord & Chosen combo is nasty, in both games taking out a full assault squad in one turn, then finishing off the attached chaplain & priest the next turn.
The second game the chosen managed to kill the sanguinor in one turn after it had charged and taken out the lord.

Does anyone have recommendations on Icons for the squads? Preference is for the khorne or slaanesh, though recommendations for other ones will be condisered.

EDIT: Updated List v2
1999

Kharn 165

Greater Deamon 100

7 Plague Marines 2 melta, champ w/pfist 221
rhino 35

10 CSM 2 flamer, champ w/pfist, khorne Icon 230
rhino exarmor 50

10 CSM 2 plasmagun, champ w/pfist, chaos glory 230
rhino 35

7 summoned deamons 91

2 oblits 150

Land raider exarmor 235

9 chosen champ, 3 pair of LC, pfist, Khorne Icon 287

5 terminators pfist, chaos glory 170

Edited by TJWyrm, 18 January 2012 - 05:03 AM.

[Ah-a-nothepsis]

I like the Khorne Icon, but only if 2+ units have it, to really take advantage of it over the course of the game.

Plague Marines need to be the ones to use the Flamer x2, if at all: They are most likely to be placed near an enemy unit such as 20 Orks, Scarab Bases, Assault Marines, or Wyches. If you take a flamer at all, give the champion a Combi-Flamer for maximum horde killage. That said, CSMs with the Icon of Khorne means they'll be near infantry anyways.. Hm.

I believe Land Raiders are best when taken in pairs for maximum armor threat. Losing your one-and-only hurts.

[TJWyrm]

Yea, the mark of khorne have the flamers b/c they are the ones to get up close and personal.
I unfortunately only have one Land raider, otherwise i would be tempted by the dual-raider list.
however, with the current chaos ones missing the Machine Spirit, it is used as a large rhino until it drops off the cargo.
Hopefully if they put enough in to take out the LR, the rhino squads got there safely.

The plaguemarines as a anti-tank unit are a combination of what models i have, and the fact that they are I3, which means they struggle against marines, but are basically unaffected against tanks. Even vs walkers its the I1 Pfist that does the most damage. The T5 and FNP also make them more survivable in the resulting explosion. In one of the games vs blood angels, I lost 3 chosen to the explosion of an enemy walker, but no Plague marines fell to explosions in the two games (touched by 4 explosions over the course of the two games).

if I make the second CSM squad a khorne squad, would you recommend keeping the two plasmaguns, or change one to a plasma pistol so I can still get a shot on the charge? Also, what should I change to get the 30 pts needed for the Icon?

[the jeske]

why no fist on the chosen ?

why dozers when chaos dozers are impossible to use ?

which champion gets poped for the GD , because it looks like all are fist champs which more or less means the GD costs like a DP with wings.

[TJWyrm]

The champ that is in the chosen is the one that gets popped. he's a naked champ.

Didn't realize that about chaos dozers. Been almost a year since I played chaos last, so I thought they were like IG ones (my primary army).
Dropping those covers the points to upgrade the pw in the chosen to a pfist.

Should I change the slaanesh Icon on the chosen to khorne?
I had originally had it as slaanesh to take advantage of the 4 powerweapons at I5, but with the fist not being on a champion, he'll only get one attack most of the time unless I switch to khorne. If i keep slaanesh, I think I'd rather keep the powerweapon and just buy a couple meltabombs for the squad.

[the jeske]

The champ that is in the chosen is the one that gets popped. he's a naked champ.

yes but who is the substitute for him . its a single LR army , the LR will get focused fired , if you go second and the GD drops on turn 2 even if you moved 12" on turn one it will be a long way from opposing army .

Didn't realize that about chaos dozers. Been almost a year since I played chaos last, so I thought they were like IG ones (my primary army).
Dropping those covers the points to upgrade the pw in the chosen to a pfist.

wish they were . I want to know what they were drinking when they wrote the rules for them ,because its not even a copy past .

Should I change the slaanesh Icon on the chosen to khorne?

well first of all unlike termis chosen can actualy get [in theory] to use the +1I because of frags . now if chosen are viable hth unit that is a different story . for example a unit of zerkers will on the charge get the same initiative str 5 higher ws hiting on +3 and are scoring . they wouldnt have the champ for the GD , but I think that was covered by many people many times .
IoK in the set up your using right now would be only useful if your planing to charge 12+meq units .

never meltabombs . the fist is not there for the tanks[not that it hurts] its there to do anti HQ and anti multi wound .

Edited by the jeske, 16 January 2012 - 12:58 AM.

[TJWyrm]

Secondary champs are the nurgle or plasma squad champs. I value powerfists in combat too much to drop them from secondary champs.

I do agree with you that the IoS is the best for the chosen. the single powerfist attack was just making me nervous. I went with the chosen in order to get the extra powerweapons.

Would you recommend any icon for the plasmagun unit, or leave them as they are?

Didn't realize that about chaos dozers. Been almost a year since I played chaos last, so I thought they were like IG ones (my primary army).
Dropping those covers the points to upgrade the pw in the chosen to a pfist.

wish they were . I want to know what they were drinking when they wrote the rules for them ,because its not even a copy past .

Don't we all.

[Kol_Saresk]

I believe they were drinking a mix of jaeger bombs and Tanith sacra. There might be scotch. My source's memory is a little hazy.

[Ah-a-nothepsis]

I have never used basic CSM, but I do get sad when I'm fighting an enemy chaos player and his squads fail morale checks. IoCG on the Plas maybe? Keep 'em in the game to get those expensive shots off more!

[TJWyrm]

I have never used basic CSM, but I do get sad when I'm fighting an enemy chaos player and his squads fail morale checks. IoCG on the Plas maybe? Keep 'em in the game to get those expensive shots off more!

Yea, thats a good Idea.

I added the updated list to the original post.

[Ah-a-nothepsis]

Cool. I'd like to play against that list, for sure

[TJWyrm]

So I played a game vs Ultramarines, and while I was generally satisfied (4 objectives, was in the lead end of turn 5 &6, but ended in a draw turn 7 with all scoring units dead) I still had problems with the chosen and lord. the chosen just don't put out enough attacks to satisfy me. They're fine for cleaning up after the lord, but any problems with him (deamon weapon rebellion or bad rolls) and they seem to struggle to finish things.

Should I change them to khorne to get more attacks?
I really like the Slaanesh Initative, but especially with the powerfist it can be a problem with only 1 attack base.

The lord also had some problem wounding on a 4+ (though that may have been my dice this game) so unmarking him for +1 str is tempting (I think I had 5 dice roll 3s for his to wound rolls in one round of combat.) should I keep the Int 6 for an advantage vs other ICs, or switch to the S5 for taking out squads?

[Ah-a-nothepsis]

If you want an easier time wounding with the lord how about a Nurgle Lord w/ Demon Weapon? Re-roll to wound against those space marines, lots of attacks, better toughness.

If your chosen are 267, you can just give the lord 9 khorne zerkers with a Pfist instead. That's 250 for the squad, 15 to turn the lord into Nurgle.

I dont have to tell you that they would do a lot better than your chosen on the charge..

Edited by Ah-a-nothepsis, 17 January 2012 - 06:35 AM.

[TJWyrm]

yea, nurgle would probably be better for wounding. but dropping him to unmarked is cheaper, and I want to stay with the chosen. I'll need points to upgrade to khorne, and this is one of the easier ways to do so.

With the chosen I like the multiple Lightning claws/armor ignoring attacks. plus I can have a champ to be possessed without loosing my good closecombat weapons

[Ah-a-nothepsis]

Fair enough :]

I did use an unmarked lord for a year or so. What is it, 130pts or so? Fun and cheap

[Aidoneus]

I definitely want to play against this list sometime. It incorporates a lot of the elements I remember being effective in your chaos lists of yesteryear.

I have to go with consensus that Berzerkers are wonderful assault troops. The sheer number of attacks, coupled with WS and Str 5, easily make up for having fewer power weapons. Plus, they're a scoring unit. However, I know you have a preference against Berzerkers, which is totally cool. Just keep 'em in mind. If you do stick with the Chosen, I definitely recommend a Khorne icon. The difference between I4 and I5 isn't as big a deal as an extra attack each round with all of those power weapons, especially when you already have the lord there cutting a swath at I5 or 6.

If you need some extra points freed up, consider dropping the extra armour from the rhinos. I find my vehicles get shaken and destroyed a whole lot, but rarely stunned. The EA on the raider is important just because that's the delivery system for so much of your army. But on the rhinos, it's 30pts you could use elsewhere. If nothing else, it'll buy you a couple extra daemons, which make that a better unit for holding objectives into the late game.

[TJWyrm]

Part of the bias against Bezerkers is the fact I like being WYZIWYG, and you have all the models But I also like running the power weapons.
I like the extra armor on the flamer/khorne rhino, as they are the second most important delivery squad, but the stuff on the plasma rhino is definitely negotiable.
The deamons are at 7 because that is what the original list allowed, and it seemed too appropriate with the plaguebearer models I use, that I just didn't think about it.

Alright, dropping Slaanesh and the Wings allows me to upgrade the chosen to Khorne and add a eighth Demon.
However I realized that instead I could also drop the plasma squad's extra armor and the termis combi flamer and upgrade to Kharn!

I've never fielded him before, but other than the hitting his own squad stuff, he satisfies all the things I wanted.
6 attacks/seven on the charge (so right about average deamon weapon results, with no self stabbing), hits on 2+, better than any lord, has Strength 5 with initiative on the charge.

Yea, I think I might just have talked myself into taking him....

updated list both below and in the first post

Kharn 165

Greater Deamon 100

7 Plague Marines 2 melta, champ w/pfist 221
rhino 35

10 CSM 2 flamer, champ w/pfist, khorne Icon 230
rhino exarmor 50

10 CSM 2 plasmagun, champ w/pfist, chaos glory 230
rhino 35

7 summoned deamons 91

2 oblits 150

Land raider exarmor 235

9 chosen champ, 3 pair of LC, pfist, Khorne Icon 287

5 terminators pfist, chaos glory 170

[Aidoneus]

Kharne will be interesting. I'm not actually sure I've ever seen him fielded, but on paper he certainly looks like a pretty solid choice. Also, thematically, I like that you now have a khorne character leading a khorne assault squad. In fact, other than one unit of plague marines, the whole army is khorne or glory, which makes it feel more unified (and at least khorne and nurgle don't hate each other quite as much as khorne and slaanesh do).

I'd say go play some more games and see how it does.