12 replies to this topic

[Draakur]

I've been brushing up on my 40k lore lately in order to finally get a DIY chapter off the ground, and found myself reading up on Khorne. One of my older ideas came back to me and has me excited, and it would involve a Khornate warband, but it feels to me like such forces are a bit difficult to keep characterful. In his current form, Khorne is presented as fairly two-dimensional, with less overall nuance and "flavour" as the other gods. Is this just me? I do remember the earlier days when Khorne wasn't completely melee-oriented, and this helps a bit and would be the approach I would take, but it still seems to come very quickly to "BLLLOOOOOODDDDD etcetc".

Would it fly in the face of established lore to have a scheming, analytical Khornate warlord? I'd like to sort of put a brain and a soul into Khorne, but I'm not sure how to go about it, or even if it would make sense to try. Has anyone read about or seen any fluff about Khorne followers that has felt engaging and interesting and didn't focus completely on them just being "the most psychotically frenzied uber madmen ever blahblah"...? Any thoughts or opinions would be great!

[Telanicus]

I've been brushing up on my 40k lore lately in order to finally get a DIY chapter off the ground, and found myself reading up on Khorne. One of my older ideas came back to me and has me excited, and it would involve a Khornate warband, but it feels to me like such forces are a bit difficult to keep characterful. In his current form, Khorne is presented as fairly two-dimensional, with less overall nuance and "flavour" as the other gods. Is this just me? I do remember the earlier days when Khorne wasn't completely melee-oriented, and this helps a bit and would be the approach I would take, but it still seems to come very quickly to "BLLLOOOOOODDDDD etcetc".

Would it fly in the face of established lore to have a scheming, analytical Khornate warlord? I'd like to sort of put a brain and a soul into Khorne, but I'm not sure how to go about it, or even if it would make sense to try. Has anyone read about or seen any fluff about Khorne followers that has felt engaging and interesting and didn't focus completely on them just being "the most psychotically frenzied uber madmen ever blahblah"...? Any thoughts or opinions would be great!

Not related to space marines, but the Gaunt's Ghosts series main antagonist is a Khornate worshiper who leads the Blood Pact, who rival the IG in tactics.

So yes, some Khorne commanders to care about strategy.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Yes they can. Ask Lord Vaskar

Seriously though. Fittingly enough, the process is simple. Because they are motivated solely by attempting to please their god by spilling blood (preferably in close combat), all you have to do is decide the warband's prefered mehod of doing that, and why that method was chosen.

For example, Vaskar uses whatever methods to bring himself to the enemy commander, slaughters said commander and broadcasts his actions with the chance to join him to hostiles forces, then utilizes a homing beacon to bring in all his forces to wipe out the enemy. He does this because has been taught and believes in waging holy warfare in Khorne's name, and thus revels in setting up a situation where the bloodshed will erupt all at once.

Now, that was just in example, you really can go crazy developing Khornate warbands, it's really only limited by your imagination

[soddinnutter]

How about a band that is less insane frothing at the mouth knuckle drager and is instead dedicated to the worship of Khorne in hid aspect as the Noble Warrior King.

Tactics are employed to bring the Faithful into contact with beings deemed their equal, even if it is detrimental to overall victory. Such combat is a Holy Sacrament, two great warriors in mortal combat to determine who is best. Khorne blesses the honorable with victory and if the looser fought well, and submits his forces to the will of the Faithful for after-battle prayers, is allowed to leave with their blessing.

They then move on to the next Holy Rite/Battle.

Outside of battle they could be calm and sombre, given over to training as a form of prayer, they could sculpt or paint the things they have seen and compose poetry about the joys of their wars.

When battle is joined properly they could still be blood-thirsty berserkers, for that is also pleasing to Khorne and every kill is unto Him an offering. But women, children, elderly and non-combatant men are off limits for the butchery. Khorne is a Noble God and there is no Glory to be had in such base butchery.

[Draakur]

Hey guys, thanks heaps for the responses

Telanicus: Cheers man, I may just have a look into those stories then, that sounds like valuable material in this search of mine.

DAT: Haha I'm glad someone is making it work for them then You've obviously quite enjoyed the creation of your warriors. Next stop, your thread

soddinnutter: Brilliant! And very much the direction I can see myself going in Actually it's the older image of Khorne as the sort of noble savage that is probably the part of him that interests me most really, I just hadn't been able to conceptualise how to run with it and focus on/make more of that aspect. It definitely presents a lot of opportunities for character development.

Khorne blesses the honorable with victory and if the looser fought well, and submits his forces to the will of the Faithful for after-battle prayers, is allowed to leave with their blessing.

This is fantastic, the heavily ritual-bound and monastic sort of feel is right up my alley, and I can see heaps of potential for making them interesting with different on and off-field practices. If they do not surrender to take part in the post-battle prayers, they are, of course, to be cut down to a man. To not honour the fighting and the act of offering up souls and skulls to Khorne would be an intolerable insult.

Outside of battle they could be calm and sombre, given over to training as a form of prayer, they could sculpt or paint the things they have seen and compose poetry about the joys of their wars.

This, too, I like The calmer, scholarly warrior, ever learning and honing his craft, who then fully unleashes his whirlwind fury on the battlefield. I can imagine they may enter meditative trances before battle to fully unlock the warrior spirit (or maybe after the battle instead, to calm themselves?).

I'd have to think more about the sculpting/painting side of things, but what instantly sprung to me when I read this was the poetry/story-telling aspect. I've always loved the imagery of the gnarled band of warriors gathered around the evening bonfire, passing on tales of old etc, and I can easily see this group making a practice of recalling tales about the great wars they've been in as you said, but specifically about the performances of their greater enemies in the past. It would be both a learning tool, to pass on the tactics and strengths/weaknesses of enemy forces to newer members of the warband so as to better prepare them for when they next face off, and as a way of honouring those of exceptional warrior prowess, as Khorne would only deem proper. Maybe music could feature here, singing of tales with instrumental accompaniment.

When battle is joined properly they could still be blood-thirsty berserkers, for that is also pleasing to Khorne and every kill is unto Him an offering. But women, children, elderly and non-combatant men are off limits for the butchery. Khorne is a Noble God and there is no Glory to be had in such base butchery

Yep, most definitely off-limits. Those less ethical leaders who attempt to throw their weak in the way of an oncoming force while escaping, or who would force men clearly untrained in combat into the fight, would reserve themselves a blood debt with the warband and would later be hunted down and eradicated completely for their dishonourable ways.

I could even see this highly-principled and ritualised approach to worship and Khorne's ideals earning them some enemies amongst other Khornate worshippers (World Eaters?), who the warband would probably see to be profane and lost in their excess, rather than living as noble Khorne truly dictates. Mighty warriors, yes, but disgracing Khorne's code in their ways.

This is a great train of thought man, do you mind if I make use of some of this inspiration? Keep the comments coming everyone!

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

DAT: Haha I'm glad someone is making it work for them then You've obviously quite enjoyed the creation of your warriors. Next stop, your thread

Sadly enough, I don't have one; Lord Vaskar exists only in short story form and even that is still WIP (just ask Tanith how long his update has been waiting ).

I made that as an example for you to use, though, take your own interpretations and ideas and apply it to the formula and you'll be fine. You don't even have to limit it to just that, really, that kind of summarization is just the starting point of what you develop

[Strike Captain Lysimachus]

I did something a little like this in one of my Chapters (not the Chapter itself but as an enemy for them to face off against), it's here in the first sidebar. Always wanted to expand them a bit actually...

[Trevak Dal]

My World Eaters are pretty much lifted straight from the Klingons from Star Trek Deep Space 9, with a greater emphasis on Samurai Bushido and a De-emphasis on Gladators (though they see themselves as Khorne's champions, vying for his glory as much as their own). Very "Today is a good day to die" and wishings of success/victory/glory in Khorne's name. Proud and honor bound lot, but when they turn it on and you're marked as an enemy-there is no surrender. Astartes, Xenos, Men, women children-when my World Eaters enter a Warzone, all are fair targets unless they are the objective. They don't believe in the concept of a non combatant, and believe that every enemy is there in an attempt to garner honor and glory upon themselves (as they are), and are fighting in the name of their god (as they are), so it's an ideological battle of "Who's god is better?".

They really, really, really dislike the Wordbearers, who slink in like a Southern Baptist/Jehova's Witness and tell you how wrong they are for believing that Khorne is the greatest. It's an argument that is best not broached ever, there is no Conan-esque laughing and eating, they just Turn On, and go upside your face until you are dead (and by default they won the argument).

[Heru2012]

I do really like some of the alternatives here! I prefer the old warrior king fluff of not killing unarmed, elderly and children...infact anyone who's not a challenge.

Like the meditation maybe once their rage is unleashed on the battlefield then it is impossible to pull themselves back, so their suits have built in sedation dispensers on a timer because once they're caught up in the bloodshed and Khorns grasp they wouldn't volutarily release sedatives. Because they only have a set time to carry out their warfare before their sedation kicks in they are known for their swift highly aggressive tactics and rapid withdrawal.

Just another idea for the cooking pot!

[Captain Juan Juarez]

A Khornate Warband must have character, or it won't work well; a character or two with unrivalled blood-lust is great as a counterpoint - Outcast Dead anyone? - but a whole group of characters like that and it soon gets old.

An interesting idea would be to combine certain elements and build around that, such as:

Seeking the perfect death - akin to Dwarf Slayers - except that the Khorne followers don't care whether that death is theirs or the foes.

Perfection in combat. Similar to how the Emperor's Children have been depicted during the HH series but aided by the worship of Khorne. Shedding blood with perfect parries and ripostes, or slaying each foe with a single shot to the head.


Really, most warbands have their leader as the central character - obviously - and then build from there, but it depends how you want to do it. Do you want the single, important figure, with minions? Or did you want a more traditional "Chapter" style?

The latter lends itself more to the "perfection" angle, with discipline allowing that kind of organisation.

Edited by Captain Juan Juarez, 27 February 2012 - 07:56 PM.

[Argon]

My World Eaters are pretty much lifted straight from the Klingons from Star Trek Deep Space 9, with a greater emphasis on Samurai Bushido and a De-emphasis on Gladators (though they see themselves as Khorne's champions, vying for his glory as much as their own). Very "Today is a good day to die" and wishings of success/victory/glory in Khorne's name. Proud and honor bound lot, but when they turn it on and you're marked as an enemy-there is no surrender. Astartes, Xenos, Men, women children-when my World Eaters enter a Warzone, all are fair targets unless they are the objective. They don't believe in the concept of a non combatant, and believe that every enemy is there in an attempt to garner honor and glory upon themselves (as they are), and are fighting in the name of their god (as they are), so it's an ideological battle of "Who's god is better?".

I had an idea for a Khornate warband that is remarkably similar to yours. However, they are fairly recently turned (they aren't of World Eaters stock at all), so they do believe in non-combatants. They won't attack those that can't defend themselves in some fashion. There's no honor in slaughtering civilians running for their lives.

They really, really, really dislike the Wordbearers, who slink in like a Southern Baptist/Jehova's Witness and tell you how wrong they are for believing that Khorne is the greatest. It's an argument that is best not broached ever, there is no Conan-esque laughing and eating, they just Turn On, and go upside your face until you are dead (and by default they won the argument).

It is a pity you are so blinded by rage that you cannot see the truth of the Lorgar's Word and the infinite blessings it contains. If our words cannot convince you of our truth, perhaps our guns will.

[Draakur]

Glad to see this developing somewhat Lots of interesting ideas.

After some more looking around, I'm reminded that barbed whips have popped up here and there throughout the years as sort of secondary weapons for Khornate warriors and daemons. It creates quite a cool aesthetic and provides some real potential to work on a theme...

[Yogi]

Khorne has plenty of character.


The problem I have with chaos sometimes, is I want to plain old insanity. Chaos is meant to be a bit nuts you know. Logic is for the unspiky.



If I made a Khornate warband, I would call them the Chainaxe Fellowship. You laugh, but take heed that name is cursed, an echo on the warp, warriors of Khorne hear it and are drawn to form a warband.

Naturally these chaps maraud around the eye, but say they are called to an alliance or crusade, some cessation of hostilities, well that's where the curse or boon as they see it comes in.

Soon after they meet the Black legion or whoever in the eye, someone smirks at their name, its impossible not to; well the chainaxes come out.

If they all die that's cool, they aren't fussed with being alive.

But the name it doesn't die, it echoes in the warp, reverberates through the souls of Khornate warrirors until it takes root. And the cycle continues. To be a member of the chainaxe fellowship is a death sentence.