Seahawk Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 The closest comparison at the time was the Desolator, yep. Here's the comparison in key points: Desolator - 300pts - Spd 25cm - 5+ armor all around - 4 shields/turrets - P/S lance decks, 60cm, Str 4 - Also had FP6 weapons and Str 9 torpedoes Seditio Opprimere v.1 (2004) (also, as it was printed in a WD, it was an official ship ;) ) - 450pts - Spd 20cm - 6+ armor all around - 3 shields/turrets - P/S lance decks, 60cm, Str 6 - Still had 2 TH, FP8 bombard, Str 6 Torpedoes In summary, the SOv.1 was slower, better armored, and had reduced defenses compared the Desolator, along with +2 lances at long range and more guns, for 150 more points. In this comparison, you paid for the privilege, and was the most expensive ship at the time (Armada was released later in the year, with the Tombship and Planet Killer, the only ships more expensive). In this vacuum it wasn't entirely OP, but when no other fleet at the time of release had anything comparable in sheer power, yea, it was pretty busted for some folks (still "meh" vs Eldar, still didn't compare to Nova Cannon spam). I was simply chuffed that only the one underpowered fleet that nobody played would be able to benefit: my Ultramarines! :P Fluffwise, it didn't fit into the restrictions imposed upon the Space Marine fleet, as it's main purpose was now as ship-killer. This was quite against the fluff, though they had a comfortable explanation that allowed it. Still, in that respect I wasn't the biggest fan, and of course everyone freaked and didn't want to play it, so it wasn't until 2010 when it got a major update and "not deniable" status that I finally built it. Here were the changes: Seditio Opprimere v.2 (2010) - [P/S lance decks, 60cm, Str 6] replaced with [P/S bombardment cannon, 30cm, Str 8] - [3 shields/turrets] increased to [4] - Instead of giving up 25% if crippled and 100% if destroyed, now it's 100% when crippled and 150% if destroyed Now it's achieved "full battleship defenses", it's been restricted to short range, and gives up a HELLUVA lot of VP when crippled, because it's a minimum of 500pts. A much more fair balancing, despite that it's now WB instead of lances (that still hit on 4's). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Although that's a reasonable comparison, I'd say that we could compare it in a different manner. The Despoiler. Both carriers and both top end battle ships. The Despoiler feels so powerful it will make it into most fleets without a thought. So is it really unreasonable for Space Marines to get the SO when Chaos get the Despoiler? Different angle you see? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 The closest comparison at the time was the Desolator, yep. Here's the comparison in key points: Desolator - 300pts - Spd 25cm - 5+ armor all around - 4 shields/turrets - P/S lance decks, 60cm, Str 4 - Also had FP6 weapons and Str 9 torpedoes Seditio Opprimere v.1 (2004) (also, as it was printed in a WD, it was an official ship ) - 450pts - Spd 20cm - 6+ armor all around - 3 shields/turrets - P/S lance decks, 60cm, Str 6 - Still had 2 TH, FP8 bombard, Str 6 Torpedoes And space marines crew. So yeah. Well worth every single of its points, right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Well not really. Paying points to get in close when you want your 60cm range lances to stay at a distance. Arguably, the Space Marines crew is superior in the bombardment cannon version and more valuable to the ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Space Marines (or Chaos Marines) crews are always a plus. Especially against some foes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Well it's like the Veterans of the Long War upgrade in 40K; useful against Space Marines but more limited against other foes. You're paying points when you don't always need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 It's more like And They Shall Know No Fear. Built in and quite good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Either way, the v.1 was undercosted/unfluffy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ciaphas Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 Hail! Interesting that the Despoiler and Desolator-class battleships get a mention! I have both models (the carrier unpainted, though), and have used the Despoiler perhaps twice. At most. Since I started. It is a wicked model, but I always seem to find that the Chaos cruisers are more efficient and less of a handicap, than either two battleships. I would love to have been able to get my grubby hands on the Terminus Est or the Planetkiller, as both are iconic models; sadly, it was not to be! Any tips, pointers or tactical treatises on how to actually use either of the two Chaos battleships in a list? Regards, Master Ciaphas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 In most instances, yes, the Chaos fleet does well with nothing but cruisers, as they are heavily armed for their size. Sometimes though, you want the staying power of the battleship. More shields, more HP. And using with marked with Khorne is a terrifying prospect for boarding! The Despoiler class has one main purpose (aircraft carrier) and a powerful secondary purpose (lances). Most fleets at 1500 have eight launch bays as standard; the convenience is that the Despoiler takes care of that for you. The potential for torpedoes is nice, but really, if the distance is closed then you have a massive 7 lances to the front (4 to P/S), giving anything pause. This would probably be the ship to give the Mark of Khorne, because while normally carriers are best when far away, this one can get up close and be mean about it. Pair it with Infidels to force your opponent to choose between defending against torpedoes or attack craft. The Desolator is the better standoff ship. Present the flank, and keep pounding away with four lances until things are dead. If something gets in front of you, punish it with a massive salvo of torpedoes. As one of the few Chaos ships with them, that in itself sometimes makes it worth taking. Pair it with Acherons for a flank-facing fleet with all of the lances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ciaphas Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 Hello! Ah, this wonderful game of ours! I had the pleasure of playing it again yesterday, though sadly it ended in miserable defeat for the forces of Chaos. I tell you - three Nova Cannons on "Burn Retros" on the other side of the table, which throughout the game landed 2,3 directs hits each turn are a horror to face. One such volley saw my Desolator-class battleship hulked in one turn of shooting, when it landed 3 direct hits. Crikey! On Wednesday, I will be playing 1200 points against a Space Marine navy - and I was looking at the Murder-class; especially the variant described on p.123 in the Rule Book. And I admit, that I cannot see how the variant works? It states that it can get "Firepower 4 and Strength 2, 45cm lances on their gun decks for no extra points" Come again? Are the lances the FP 2 or four on the gun decks? I am at a loss. I have tried to read the 2010 FAQ, but am not much wiser... Help please? So far, the list I am building is the 13th Black Crusade List Warmaster +2LD, extra re-roll Acheron Acheron Devastation Devastation I am thinking of adding a Murder or two; perhaps dropping the Devastations, or just adding two Slaughter-class vessels, which will hang back... What do you think? Regards, Master Ciaphas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RADU LYKAN Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I think it means weapons batteries 4 plus two lances per side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Just as a note, a ship that's on Burn Retros, All Ahead Full, and Come to New Heading cannot fire its Nova Cannon. (page 22) For the Murder-class question, you swap your P/S 45cm S10 weapons batteries for P/S 45cm S4 weapons batteries and 45cm S2 lances. Finally, that list is kinda not legal as it stands. The Acherons are heavy cruisers, and for every heavy cruiser, you need two cruisers. Think of it like this: - 2 Cruisers unlocks 1 Heavy Cruiser, and those ships together unlock 1 Grand Cruiser or Battleship. - 4 Cruisers unlocks 2 Heavy Cruisers, and those ships together unlock 2 Grand Cruisers or Battleships. Personally, a few ways around Nova Cannon: - Force him to take Navigational Orders - Utilize LoS blocking terrain like asteroids and planets - Close the distance ASAP; it can't fire within 30cm To that end, two options as Chaos stick out to me: - A squadron of 4 Slaughter-class Cruisers. I've played it a lot, and they're wicked as weasels. Point them at his Nova Cannon ships and go All Ahead Full turn 1. Weather the return fire (remember, he can only target the closest ship), don't even brace. Next turn, get within that sweet 30cm and unleash hell! - A squadron of 2 Hades and 2 Murders. This gives you a ferocious lance battery of 12 lances at 60cm to the front. Screen them with some cheap escorts to force him to pass Ld tests to shoot past them, and then have the Murders in front of the squadron so that they take the hits first. Deploy the cruisers last so that you can counter his NC, then get Locked On turn 1 or 2 and FREEM them good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 It states that it can get "Firepower 4 and Strength 2, 45cm lances on their gun decks for no extra points" Come again? Are the lances the FP 2 or four on the gun decks? I am at a loss. I have tried to read the 2010 FAQ, but am not much wiser... Help please? Weapon Batteries have Firepower. Lances have Strength. It's describing two different sorts of gun. So instead of: Port weapon batteries 45cm/10/Left Starboard weapon batteries 45cm/10/Right Prow lance battery 60cm/2/Front The Plagueclaw and Despicable Ecstasy have: Port weapon batteries 45cm/4/Left Port lance battery 45cm/2/Left Starboard weapon batteries 45cm/4/Right Starboard lance battery 45cm/2/Right Prow lance battery 60cm/2/Front i.e. they trade 6 points of Firepower on each deck for S2 lances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Another update from Battlegroup Helios: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulJam Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Hey malika666, are those the firedrake models? Body looks like the corvette but didn't know they had a lance prow for them? [later:] in answer to own question was assault frigate as per facebook update. not yet a product in the shop page where i normally go to look at the pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 A long time ago Ben designed a bunch of ships, which he released through Abomination Miniatures. Sadly enough Abomination is no longer around, but its ships line has been taken over by Vanguard Miniatures. Now he started working on a cruiser hull, but we still need feedback. So what do you guys think of this ship? http://i65.tinypic.com/28kn0pe.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itsacon Posted September 14, 2016 Share Posted September 14, 2016 Reminds me of the Mechanicus ships. I mostly feel it's missing a bridge. But maybe I'm too used to the GW aestetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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