8 replies to this topic

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I'm writing some fluff for a heresy era charecter, and am wondering about three things mainly
A) Did the traitors summon/use daemons other the the word bearers use of possessed? I know they used them extensively at terra, but cannot remember wherever it's mentioned in the books and I don't have any at hand.
B)What happened to the naval assets of the IH, Raven guard and Salamanders, were they almost entirely destroyed, or mostly scattered and fallen back to their respective home worlds?
C) Would Librarians of the IH, Raven Guard and Salamanders used their powers? Yes their was the council of Nikea, but would they have decided in the heat of battle to use them to try and save their brothers?
D) Would it be feasible for a extremely small (30-40 max) force of Salamanders been able to escape and make their way either to terra and Nocturne, attacking traitor supply lines and worlds as they did so? Not extensive attacks, just the odd drop pod assault on a capitol or supply depo where possible whilst avoiding the traitor fleets?
My reasoning is that at the moment very little is known about the Vulkan and the salamanders escape from Isstvan, and it seems they were slightly better off then the Raven Guard.

[Saa]

Whilst I'm unable to definitively answer all of your questions I can perhaps shed a modicum of light on some.

A) off the top of my head the only ref other than the siege of Terra where the traitors extensively used daemons was the battle of Calth however it appears this may have been retconned. Perhaps further HH novels will shed more light on this.

B ) I'm unable to answer this with impunity however I suggest reading Gav Thorpes Deliverance Lost to shed some light to the fate of the Raven Guard at least which might offer some insight to the remaining infrastructure of thier military fleet.

C) regarding these legions and thier use of psykers post Nikea, again I'd suggest reading Deliverance Lost. There's a very apt moment regarding psychic use after the Emps decree and how that is potentially countermanded by their Primarchs.

D) I would personally say it was feasible for Sallies to escape in a small force though how effective they would be under such circumstance with the direct loss of thier Primarch and the staggering defeat they had suffered would easily be open to debate

Saa

........or something like that

[Cormac Airt]

I'm writing some fluff for a heresy era charecter, and am wondering about three things mainly
A) Did the traitors summon/use daemons other the the word bearers use of possessed? I know they used them extensively at terra, but cannot remember wherever it's mentioned in the books and I don't have any at hand.

Deliverance Lost rarely went into detail, but did strongly hint that there was a heavy daemonic presence on Isstvan.

B)What happened to the naval assets of the IH, Raven guard and Salamanders, were they almost entirely destroyed, or mostly scattered and fallen back to their respective home worlds?

The naval assets of the Legions at the time were much more vast than what they are today, so while it's most likely 'entirely destroyed,' it should be noted that such would be the case only for that fraction that was actually present. Iron Hands least of all, since they had the smallest presence, however I don't believe there were any survivors. Raven Guard's naval losses were absolute, requiring the arrival of their off-system assets to prevent utter eradication. Salamanders were presumably able to fall back in some manner, as Vulkan didn't find his end that day.

C) Would Librarians of the IH, Raven Guard and Salamanders used their powers? Yes their was the council of Nikea, but would they have decided in the heat of battle to use them to try and save their brothers?

Raven Guard: Yes. They do so in plain sight of Custodes when the need is great enough, so definitely in such a battle. Iron Hands, Salamanders, I don't know. Neither of their demeanors are well known to me.

D) Would it be feasible for a extremely small (30-40 max) force of Salamanders been able to escape and make their way either to terra and Nocturne, attacking traitor supply lines and worlds as they did so? Not extensive attacks, just the odd drop pod assault on a capitol or supply depo where possible whilst avoiding the traitor fleets?
My reasoning is that at the moment very little is known about the Vulkan and the salamanders escape from Isstvan, and it seems they were slightly better off then the Raven Guard.

I would presume that you could, yeah. I would advise not to, though. Not yet. At some point, it'll be made clear in the series how it happened. I'd wait until then.

Points in bold above.

[Castiel]

C) Would Librarians of the IH, Raven Guard and Salamanders used their powers? Yes their was the council of Nikea, but would they have decided in the heat of battle to use them to try and save their brothers?

Raven Guard: Yes. They do so in plain sight of Custodes when the need is great enough, so definitely in such a battle. Iron Hands, Salamanders, I don't know. Neither of their demeanors are well known to me.

It is hinted in "Deliverance Lost" that this was the Emperor working through the Raven Guard marine, so that makes it more difficult to answer this point with any certainty.

[Cormac Airt]

C) Would Librarians of the IH, Raven Guard and Salamanders used their powers? Yes their was the council of Nikea, but would they have decided in the heat of battle to use them to try and save their brothers?

Raven Guard: Yes. They do so in plain sight of Custodes when the need is great enough, so definitely in such a battle. Iron Hands, Salamanders, I don't know. Neither of their demeanors are well known to me.

It is hinted in "Deliverance Lost" that this was the Emperor working through the Raven Guard marine, so that makes it more difficult to answer this point with any certainty.

I don't think it really matters, as it was only stated by the Marine and not particularly believed by those around him. The point, however, is that psyker powers were utilized and that these powers extended from a Marine. Corax and his Legion saw it as necessary for the case in hand because of its importance. I'm just saying that this same line of thinking could easily apply to when they were fighting upon Isstvan.

[The emperors chosen]

I'm writing some fluff for a heresy era charecter, and am wondering about three things mainly
A) Did the traitors summon/use daemons other the the word bearers use of possessed? I know they used them extensively at terra, but cannot remember wherever it's mentioned in the books and I don't have any at hand. Not sure, as the other posters say, Deliverance Lost may answer this, but Fulgrim goes into what happened to the Emperors Children, which may be considered possession.
B)What happened to the naval assets of the IH, Raven guard and Salamanders, were they almost entirely destroyed, or mostly scattered and fallen back to their respective home worlds? Raven Guard: Destroyed, IH: no information, but as it was only the morlocks who were sent, any fleet damage would have been small, Salamanders: Vulkan got off planet, so at least some ships made it.
C) Would Librarians of the IH, Raven Guard and Salamanders used their powers? Yes their was the council of Nikea, but would they have decided in the heat of battle to use them to try and save their brothers? No knowledge of the Raven Guard, Fulgrim makes no mention of Librarians being used by either the IH or the Salamanders
D) Would it be feasible for a extremely small (30-40 max) force of Salamanders been able to escape and make their way either to terra and Nocturne, attacking traitor supply lines and worlds as they did so? Not extensive attacks, just the odd drop pod assault on a capitol or supply depo where possible whilst avoiding the traitor fleets?
My reasoning is that at the moment very little is known about the Vulkan and the salamanders escape from Isstvan, and it seems they were slightly better off then the Raven Guard. Certainly possibly, and it would make for an excellent Salamander story.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

The Salamanders are famed for there practicality aren't they? So I like to imagine they would, and weren't they among those in support of librarians? That's where the idea came from, I just got Deliverance lost, will read it soon.

[Lord_Caerolion]

The fate of Vulkan is murky though. He hasn't been directly stated to survive Istvaan in the Heresy series yet, but neither is he said to have been killed, just missing, and numerous sources give him credit for events after the Heresy, like taking part in the discussions about the Codex. First Founding mentions there are records of him surviving for 3000 years after the Heresy, just that they're very vague as to what he actually did.

Personally, my own theory is that Vulkan managed to survive, but only escaped with a fraction of his Legion left, and that he had to sit out the rest of the Heresy, rebuilding his forces. As much as I can see him wanting to punish the traitors, I can't see him destroying himself and his Legion in the name of revenge. He's too level-headed for that, and as much as it may have broken his heart to wait it out, he had to constantly remind himself of the countless others who would die if the Salamanders were no longer there to protect them in the future.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Ahh thanks, will try writing the story now, can short stories be submitted to the librarium as part of the pennance for a failed vow? (the terminator legs have not arrived yet, and daemon prince is all of one sole of a foot.) @Lord_Caerolion that's why I think the salamanders would be restricted to just keeping worlds that could go either way with the imperirum, striking against worlds that have with little/no traitor presence and their supply lines and depos ect.