944 replies to this topic

[Marshal2 Crusaders]

I think GW will have learned their lesson about writing Chaos Codexes. I doubt the Legions will be the only focus.


OR

Perhaps what we heard IS true, and Codex Legions will be released invalidating the current one, but White Dwarf will do a Codex for Renegades like SoB did?

[1000heathens]

... but White Dwarf will do a Codex for Renegades like SoB did?

Considering how terrible THAT was... I'll be posting a video in the Chaos forum featuring my Chaos army and $200 bucks worth of fireworks...

[Zynk Kaladin]

Excited to see the fluff for sure. Looks like 6th Edition will begin in Chaos.

I can see the fluff now...

"The 13th Black Crusade will be the blackest crusade upon the galaxy. Blacker than the blackest black... times infinity! It's so black they'll name the color after me." -Abaddon pre 13th Black Crusade

EDIT: As a devout loyalist fan, I'm pretty excited for the new chaos stuff. Our shade of grey wouldn't be so light(comparatively) without a PROPER heretic/daemon to purge.

Edited by Zynk Kaladin, 10 April 2012 - 07:20 AM.

[1000heathens]

Excited to see the fluff for sure. Looks like 6th Edition will begin in Chaos.

I can see the fluff now...

"The 13th Black Crusade will be the blackest crusade upon the galaxy. Blacker than the blackest black... times infinity! It's so black they'll name the color after me." -Abaddon pre 13th Black Crusade

EDIT: As a devout loyalist fan, I'm pretty excited for the new chaos stuff. Our shade of grey wouldn't be so light(comparatively) without a PROPER heretic/daemon to purge.

And now, the blackest present for the most brutal of all 40k players... * gift box falls open empty* ... NOOOOTHING!

Edited by 1000heathens, 10 April 2012 - 07:25 AM.

[Pariah Mk.231]

What about the traitors? Won't somebody please think of the traitors!!!

Yup, I want my traitors to be useful again and not just "bad guardsmen", led by chaos marines, soaking up bullets, flailing harmlessly at their foes, all of it. Probably because I started in 2nd Ed, I prefer Chaos to be a whole mess of marines (both legion and renegade), cultists, traitors, daemons, beastmen, warriors and all manner of other beasties. I guess I'd just like to see a Chaos codex which resembles the 2nd edition one in terms of variety and choice. A codex where we can field a sizable chunk of one of the legions, a champion and his mortal followers or even unleash the untold horros that dwell on the countless daemon worlds within the Eye.

I want to see a champion surrounded by minotaurs, an avalanche of khornate juggernaught cavalry, a host of sorcerers ripping open reality and unleashing hordes of daemons, a fiery demogogue corrupting the inhabitants of a planet, an apocalyptic artillery bombardment by the Iron Warriors, massed traitors turning their lasguns on former comrades, pet spawn on leashes, chaos hounds bounding tirelessly alongside bikers, a tide of beastmen crashing against the enemies fortifications, slaves herded out to draw fire, daemon engines laying waste to all around them.

That is what I expect from Chaos. Not just the Legions or more recent renegades. Chaos isn't just about spiky marines and their voodoo, it's about corrupting reality and bringing the galaxy down in flames, whatever the methods. I don't want to have to represent the traitors and cultists with the Guard codex or Beastmen with the Ork codex. I don't want to have to take 4 codexes to represent a proper Chaos horde in a game of Apocalypse and I'd like to mix them in smaller games.

I ... I'm ranting. Sorry about that. I get like this when I think about how so much of what makes up the forces of Chaos has been swept under the rug just so there can be another purely power armoured codex on the shelves. I just hope GW does at least a small amount of justice to the little guys of Chaos, the guys that aren't super humans or daemons.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Yes, let's bring back 3.5 in it's entirety, and make it so that you can't play Marked forces other than the Legions. I'm glad that it's possible to have Tzeentch-marked Marines that aren't Thousand Sons now. I'm glad you can have Nurgle mounted troops, rather than every single Nurglitch warband following what Mortarion did. The same goes with all the other Legions.

Yes, 3.5 represented Chaos well, but it did so only within very narrow parametres. 4.0 represented it worse, but allowed far wider representation of what your Chaos force was. Chaos should be varied, not "oh, you want to play Tzeentct? Well, you can only ever do Thousand Sons!" like it was before.

[Spacefrisian]

I never understand some leaking people mindset . dude goes in sees someone who converted regular assault sm to be his "raptors"[i dont blame his the last raptor models are crap on so many levels] and then we suddenly have huge news how we are going to get cults with jump packs , raptors and chaos RAS etc.

They just spent an entire Codex on the Renegades.

and it sucked . GW looked at the sells and suddenly understood that there were probably more legion players then there ever was renegade players and that it is not worth to lose a bigger buyer group over a smaller one . renegade idea floped and that is the end of it . And before all those renegade [few as they are] players go how they are losing their armies etc let me inform you that comparing to what legion players lost going from 3.5 to gav dex it is nothing . you can still do counts as , you can still do legion dex . It is not the same as what WB/AL or EC players ended up with [armies which were impossible to be made legal under the new dex , with no stand in or ways to play it different].

Now if GW only understood that the Daemon codex on its own "idea" also sucks and puts them back into a Chaos dex, we are all happy again. Bloodletters and Berzerkers yes pls.

[Maximvs]

Excited to see the fluff for sure. Looks like 6th Edition will begin in Chaos.

I can see the fluff now...

"The 13th Black Crusade will be the blackest crusade upon the galaxy. Blacker than the blackest black... times infinity! It's so black they'll name the color after me." -Abaddon pre 13th Black Crusade

Hopefully isn't Matt Ward but Phil Kelly, so no worries

And now, the blackest present for the most brutal of all 40k players... * gift box falls open empty* ... NOOOOTHING!

Love this quote! Happy... Birthday!

[The Red Worm]

I prefer the approach of the current edition, just not its execution. I'm not a big fan of the Daemon Codex, but I don't think it will be going away, even if GW did skip a 6th edition codex, it wouldn't be without precedence. I wasn't aware of clamoring for the Codex, so I'm guessing it was in part determined by how GW wanted to do the CSM codex.

I'd also prefer to see a Heresy supplement akin to Planetstrike or Cityfight. That could work with Codex Daemons and Codex CSM so that nearly any type of Chaos approach would be possible. Could also sell more models of both loyal and traitor marine.

I doubt we'll see a return to traitor guard, beastmen, cultists, and the like. First and second edition didn't have nearly as many models back then and converting those metals wasn't commonplace. Today the game is just too different without the need to make spiky versions of guard or bring in WFB models. OTOH, we do have a lot of players with codexes of marines with different colored armor... No, I think Chaos armies will remain either daemons or CSM for a while longer.

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

Hopefully isn't Matt Ward..

I can already imagine Khârn carving his name unto the hearts of the lost Primarchs, Ahriman mind controlling Hive Fleets, and Lucius the Eternal corrupting SoB Orders with roses and boxes of chocolates.

[Silver Phoenix]

These rumours make me pissed. I like my Renegades. You guys suck.






*goes to corner to sulk*

"C'mooooooon, 7th edition..."

+ 1

[Doghouse]

Just out of interest, why would this new codex affect Renegade marine players?

Wouldn't it just be a case of using something like the Black Legion rules if they did this as a Legion specific codex? Surely they'd have a generic core to the army then build the legion specific stuff around special characters?

Personally speaking I'd like to see a proper chaos codex with marine warbands mixing it up with traitor guard/cultists to set them further apart from loyalist marines.

[Aegnor]

Yeah, agree with Doghouse. Can't see why they'd make it impossible to field a Renegade list, even if they relatively get less fluff and special rules etc in comparison to the Legion forces.

Apart from anything else really, REALLY, can't see them leaving Huron Blackheart out of any Chaos Dex, so if nothing else, he'd likely have special rules that gave you access to "modern Renegade" list options.

[Kol_Saresk]

Just out of interest, why would this new codex affect Renegade marine players?

Wouldn't it just be a case of using something like the Black Legion rules if they did this as a Legion specific codex? Surely they'd have a generic core to the army then build the legion specific stuff around special characters?

Personally speaking I'd like to see a proper chaos codex with marine warbands mixing it up with traitor guard/cultists to set them further apart from loyalist marines.

If Jeske and more than half of the people who posted get their way, the Black Legion will be the generic core army list. So you can have a Tzeentch build without them being Thousand Sons, but they will still be Rubric Marines.Same with everything else. You can have those armies withouthaving that Legion, you just have to use that Legion's units. That's part of the problem. The other problem is the fluff.

There are only two, maybe three(y'all know who I am talking about), Legions that are cohesive. As a generality. The rest are completely broken up into warbands. There are even Black Legion, Word Bearers and Alpha Legion warbands roaming the galaxy. We got to see that in the Siege of Veaks with the Black Brethren, the Sanctified and the Faithless.

And Doghouse, IIRC correctly, what you suggested was put forth as one of the earliest rumors about the upcoming Codex.

[Validar]

screw all that sonic bull:cuss. The noise marines are the worst freaking idea GW ever got. EC were beond awesome in all aspects until (for some reason) they started playing heavy metal which made ears bleed...

And now they're on predators? Where is the logic?

Retcon noise marines out of the story. Give EC/Slaanesh something else (possibly not even the same thing).

/endrant

[Maximvs]

Hopefully isn't Matt Ward..

I can already imagine Khârn carving his name unto the hearts of the lost Primarchs, Ahriman mind controlling Hive Fleets, and Lucius the Eternal corrupting SoB Orders with roses and boxes of chocolates.

Don't forget DSing Land Raiders, a Warsmith so awesome than can make scouting dreadnoughts, flying Libby dreads for the Thousand Sons. HE MAKES IT HAPPEN.

Hopefully, he is not the rumoured author of the book. I was really pleased with the rumour of Phil Kelly being the writer.

Spoiler

Actually my chaos god is Andy Chambers

Edited by Maximvs, 10 April 2012 - 01:43 PM.

[Lexington]

*shakes head*

Guys. Guys. What we have at current is a Traitor Legions Codex. It's brimming with Heresy-era weaponry, equipment and Legionary special characters. Some poor fool just slapped a bunch of ridiculous "renegade" background in it.

[maverike_prime]

theDarkGeneral wrote:
Apocalypse sized releases for Chaos in the near future , an Autocannon-toting flyer was mentioned.

Wait what? They're stealing my Hell Shrieker fighter? NO! I won't allow it! I forbid it... oh wait, this is Chaos. They break full. merf.

[the jeske]

Guys. Guys. What we have at current is a Traitor Legions Codex. It's brimming with Heresy-era weaponry, equipment and Legionary special characters. Some poor fool just slapped a bunch of ridiculous "renegade" background in it.

good thing that officials from GW told us more then one time that this is a renegade space marine centered book and "not a legion" dex .

[Vesper]

If Jeske and more than half of the people who posted get their way, the Black Legion will be the generic core army list. So you can have a Tzeentch build without them being Thousand Sons, but they will still be Rubric Marines.Same with everything else. You can have those armies withouthaving that Legion, you just have to use that Legion's units. That's part of the problem. The other problem is the fluff.

Chaos marks were decent and could nicely represent the allegence of a chaos marine.
To be fair, I fail to see what is your point. If the legions are not the core of the today's Chaos marine concept, why should we have a chaos codex ? Let's play vanilla marine or another loyalist stuff. That's what many chaos players choose to do since our codex was released, back in 2007.
Our codex sucks game-wise, but also flavor wise. I don't really see what the renegade players will lose if the next codex focuses on the legions. Play as count-as or play another codex.
The "generic" Black Legion "list" should be flexible, able to field all the units of the FOC, so you could play your renegade warband the way you like it. But specific legions should have their flavors represented. Because they are the embodiment of the concept of CSM in their diversity

Edited by Vesper, 10 April 2012 - 03:17 PM.

[Kol_Saresk]

Because the Legions are no longer Legions. Even the cohesive ones(Black Legion, Alpha Legion, Word Bearers) are broken up into the main Legion and then the independent warbands(The Black Brethren, The Apostles of Contagion, the Faithless, The Sanctified, etc.). Everyone is a Renegade. Either from their Chapter, their Legion or the person who has claimed leadership over the Legion. There are only Chaos Marines. There are no Legionaries. Only those who were the title of being the the original Traitor. So to resurrect the Legions Codex when there are no Legions is stupid because the Legions no longer exist. GW used the Renegades codex to show it. Forgeworld tried to show it using the Renegades Codex made by GW. BL has shown it following GW's guidelines. The Legions are no more. Even the Word Bearers, the one Legion said to be the most cohesive is having internal schisms.

Did the Renegades Codex suck in terms of gameplay? Yes. No where am I trying to argue that. What I am saying is that we need the unit stats and weapons from 3.5, combined with the ability to mix and match that came from 4th ed, including playing a Tzeentch army without being a KSons or are a BL knock-off. I should be able to have a Slaaneshi Night Lords warband if I want to. Or a Khorne Iron Warriors. A Tzeentch Alpha Legion.

[Vesper]

Then, what is a Night Lord warband devoted to Slaanesh ? Jump pack heavy sonic troops or just marines painted dark blue ?
I think you missed my point, mainly because I didn't went far enough : I don't want to talk about the whole "fragmented" thingy. I want to point the distinctive traits that makes those guys. For exemple, my Night Lords army don't have access to Night Vision. But on the other hand, SW can, because they are awesome to the max.

Being in a warband, praying a chaos god, all those shouldn't erase the legacy of a legion. And I talk about traits like Night Vision or tactical tendancies.
I want my Night Lords to remember they are Night Lords.

Edited by Vesper, 10 April 2012 - 04:37 PM.

[Spacefrisian]

So the next chaos dex will give us awesome Tzeentch and Slaanesh stuff with "cheese for everyone" written all over it, and a meh Khorne and nurgle.

Eg: If Lucius is slain you may replace him with the model that has beaten him and continue fighting for you. HE!! Why is that Lucius going solo charge to Mephiston or Swarmlord?

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Right, guys. Calm down. At the moment any codex is better than this one, so lets be grateful for what we get. And if you don't like whatever comes out, we still have the HG rules forum for you

[The Emperor's Champion]

The "generic" Black Legion "list" should be flexible, able to field all the units of the FOC, so you could play your renegade warband the way you like it. But specific legions should have their flavors represented. Because they are the embodiment of the concept of CSM in their diversity

This.
This is exactly it.


Have a generic Chaos Marine list and then bolt on the modifications you needs for your army. Something like:
Black Legion? You get limited access to units and daemons of all the gods and your basic stuff becomes better.
Renegades? Limited access to units of all gods and limited access to certain units that only certain Legions get (AKA "newer stuff")
World Eaters? Access all Khorne daemons, Marines become more melee-centric and lose access to certain "not so in you face" patience requiering options. No access to Slaanesh units, limited access to Tzeentch and Nurgle units.
Death Guard? Access all Nurgle daemons, Marines become tougher and plague-y and lose access to some Fast Attack stuff. No access to Tzeentch units, limited access to Khorne and Slaanesh units.
Thousand Sons? Access to all Tzeentch daemons, Marines become Relentless but have -1 Initiative, squad leaders all become sorcerers. No access to Tzeentch units, limited access to Khorne and Slaanesh units.
Emperor's Children? Access to all Slaanesh daemons, Marines can take combat drugs and sonic weaponry. No access to Khorne units, limited access to Nurgle and Tzeentch units.
Word Bearers? Access to all daemons, cultists, and Dark Apostles. Limited access to god-specific units.
Iron Warriors? Access to more Obliterators, access to certain otherwise unavailable Imperial Guard and Space Marine artillery (Basilisks, Vindicators) and more daemon engines. Limited access to god-specific units.
Night Lords? Access to Furies, access to loads of Raptors, access to more of whatever aircraft they end up putting in the book, the Marines all have Night Vision and probably some fear-based powers. No access to units of specific gods, unless the Raptor god is an option.
Alpha Legion? Very limited daemon access. Access to cultists, Stealth, Infiltrate, extra HQ choices, ability to screw up enemy reserves, sabotage enemy vehicles, rearrange enemy units (a la the Callidus Assassin). No access to units of specific gods.

A lot like the 3.5 book, just better execution.