21 replies to this topic

[Black_Templar85]

Hi There

So I am a long time WHFB player (TK's and Night Goblins) and have decided that I'd make my first excursion into the realms of 40k. After spending the best part of the last fortnight I think that I have finally settled on Black Templars, I really like the 'feel' and character of the army.

However, having never played 40K I am not really sure what type of Templar list that I eventually want to run so have written up a little 1k list that utilised what I think of as the 'Core' of a Black Crusade.

Please let me know what you think of what I have written.

HQ: Reclusiarch - 175
Adamantine Mantle, Terminator Honours
3 Servitors

Emperors Champion - 140
AAC

Elites: Ven Dread - 165
TLLC, ML, Tank Hunter

Troops: Crusader Squad - 285
8 Ini's - Bolt Pistol & CCW
1 Ini - Melta
1 Ini - Powerfist & Bolt Pistol
10 Neo's - Bolt Pistols & CCW

Troops: Crusader Squad - 235
8 Ini's - Bolters
1 Ini - Melta
1 Ini - Powerfist & Bolt Pistol
Rhino

So 1 HQ, 1 Elite and 2 Troops
I have a 20 man squad that I'll be attaching the EC & Rec to to make a massive combat mob that'll hopefully move fast up the table and take objectives/smash the enemies face in. I also got a nice armour busting walker in the form of the ven dread and a fast response unit with the Bolter and Rhino to challenge/grab at last minute

[Black_Templar85]

Ok so after reading Implausible Nature I have come to edit my own list to the following (I am 1 point over unfortunately but I'm new so can be accepted for a while)

HQ: Emperors Champion - 140
Accept Any Challenge No Matter the Odds

Elites: Ven. Dread - 165
TLLC, ML, Tank Hunter

Troops: Crusader Squad - 215 (EC Here)
5 Ini's - BPistol & CCW
1 Ini - Meltagun
1 Ini - PFist & BPistol
2 Neo's - BPistol & CCW
Rhino, Extra Armour, Smoke Launchers

Troops: Crusader Squad - 231
6 Ini's - BPistol & CCW
1 Ini - Meltagun
1 Ini - PFist & BPistol
2 Neo's - BPistol & CCW
Rhino, Extra Armour, Smoke Launchers

Troops: Crusader Squad - 90
4 Ini's - Bolters
1 Ini - Meltagun

Heavy: Vindicator - 160
POTMS, Extra Armour, Smoke Launchers

Total Roster Cost - 1001

Any better?

Edited by Black_Templar85, 19 April 2012 - 08:09 PM.

[Castellan Alaric]

i really like what ML says on duality, and try to include it in to all of my units i field. take your dread for instance. i field a ven hunter dread as well, but with no ml. i keep the DCCW and add a heavy flamer instead so if people get close i can roast and smash them (dreadnaughts get to attack at initiative, even with a "power fist" of sorts) i feel the tllc is enough to successfully hit/pen/kill anything i'm shooting at, especially with the tank hunters skill which ups it's strength to 10 against vehicles. i like your second list better, mainly because you only have 1 hq. at 1k the ec is gonna be just fine. when you expand up to 1,500, then you can think about adding in a marshal for army wide ld10 (very useful). i really just don't understand your little "sitter squad". 4 bolters and a melta? if they're gonna sit, i would recommend saving 4 pts and adding a plasma gun for the extended range and punch against MEq (marine equivalent: s4 t4 3+ armor) and TEq (terminator equivalent: s4 t4 2+ armor). by adding a heavy weapon to them as well you've fully min/maxed them (minimum squad size, maximum loadouts). a 5 man squad with a lascannon/missile launcher and a plasma gun is quite handy to have sitting in your back field taking pot shots at tanks and messing up infantry when they get close. the vindicator will destroy all it shoots at, assuming it hits it's target. make sure to protect is vulnerable side and rear armor. you can use your rhinos for this. position your rhinos on either side to take the side armor shots, to keep your vindy moving. now, i will say, vindy's work best when given power of the machine spirit (potms). being able to move 12" and shoot 24" helps take the edge off of having a 24" main weapon.

just some suggestions, hope they helped

oh, and welcome to the emperor's favorite chapter!

[Black_Templar85]

I had the POTMS on the Vindi, I just forgot to list it.

I can fit a ML on the shooter/sitter squad if I drop the ML on the Ven Dred and swap the Melta for a Plasma to give;

HQ: Emperors Champion - 140
Accept Any Challenge No Matter the Odds

Elites: Ven. Dread - 155
TLLC, DCCW, Tank Hunter

Troops: Crusader Squad - 215 (EC Here)
5 Ini's - BPistol & CCW
1 Ini - Meltagun
1 Ini - PFist & BPistol
2 Neo's - BPistol & CCW
Rhino, Extra Armour, Smoke Launchers

Troops: Crusader Squad - 231
6 Ini's - BPistol & CCW
1 Ini - Meltagun
1 Ini - PFist & BPistol
2 Neo's - BPistol & CCW
Rhino, Extra Armour, Smoke Launchers

Troops: Crusader Squad - 96
3 Ini's - Bolters
1 Ini - ML
1 Ini - Plasmagun

Heavy: Vindicator - 160
Extra Armour, Smoke Launchers

Total Roster Cost - 997

Edited by Black_Templar85, 19 April 2012 - 08:31 PM.

[Black_Templar85]

Ok tough choice to make here

Vindi -vs- 2 Typhoon Speeders?

What do you reckpn I trade a template for 2* 2MML Heavy shots plus ability to cpntest in the end game but lose armour

[Castellan Alaric]

at 1000 pts the need for that s10 ap1 pie plate isn't going to be needed as much, imo. i play orks often and get great results from my cyclone terminators missile templates, so i'd vote for the the speeders. if i'm not mistaken, they save you some points right? if they do, buy extra armor and smoke for your dread, if it's turn 4-5 and your dread doesn't have anymore guns and is gonna get shot at for a last turn kill point, that smoke could save it. i haven't played with speeders of that specific type yet, but basically just keep them moving as fast as possible to get cover saves and stick to cover, because they will go down to masses s4 shooting (bolters) and s5-7 shooting (HB's-AC's)

you will like your sitter squad as long as you keep them safe, i faced chaos this last weekend and he had a defiler so his battle cannon killed like 6-7 of my 2 sitter squad guys but those 2 lascannon shots per turn helped kill a chaos dread and keep him for coming onto that side of the board. oh, they also each killed an obliterator that had deep struck behind me, that s9 is SO handy.

hope my suggestions help man, you gonna get any games soon, or are you still just building up?

[Black_Templar85]

Cheers for that buddy, the help is really appreciated.

I'm just building and painting at the moment once the army is 'finished' I'll be dropping by the GW for some games. I have a horrific record with unpainted armies so now no longer play unpainted armies/units.

So this is the list as it stands.

HQ: Emperors Champ - 140
AACNMTO

Elites: Venerable Dreadnought - 163
TLLC, DCCW, Extra Armour, Smoke, Tank Hunter

Troops: Crusader Squad - 225 (EC bunks with these guys)
5 Ini's - CCW & BPistol
1 Ini - Meltagun
1 Ini - PFist & BPistol
2 Neo's - CCW & BPistol
(All with Frag Grenades)
Rhino - Extra Armour, Smoke, Searchlight

Troops: Crusader Squad - 236
5 Ini's - CCW & BPistol
1 Ini - Meltagun
1 Ini - PFist & BPistol
3 Neo's - CCW & BPistol
(All with Frag Grenades)
Rhino - Extra Armour, Smoke, Searchlight

Troops: Crusader Squad - 96
3 Ini's - Bolters
1 Ini - Plasma Gun
1 Ini - Missile Launcher

Fast: Land Speeder Typhoon - 70

Fast: Land Speeded Typhoon - 70

Total Points - 1000 on the nose

[Castellan Alaric]

dude, once this is all painted i think you're gonna have a good time. it is very balanced and can deal with a lot of threats. now, remember that while bt's are average to just above average in cc, they are NOT a good cc army. any dedicated cc troop will destroy your crusaders. banshees, scorpions, nobs, honor guard, sang guard, vanguard vets, zerkers, etc will all decimate you in cc man. if you are going to try it MAKE SURE you get the charge so people aren't getting furious charge against you and such, to give your crusaders the best chance to win in cc. at 1k points though, you won't face a lot of these units i've named off but you could see some eldar scorpions or banshees, maybe some ork nobs and zerkers as well, just don't go in thinking everything you charge will die, because you'll be disappointed lol lookin solid man, let us know how your games go when you get your models together!

[Black_Templar85]

Yeah I understand that from a TK POV. I'm all about th challenge of tactical movement, concentrated shooting and overwhelming force on the charge.

I'll get on with buying and building and painting and post up some bat reps when I get some games in. Thanks for your help, its pretty amazing how much the list has changed.

Its nice to have aomeone put suggestiona forwards rather than take thisor take that

[Castellan Alaric]

well when someone wants criticism on their list they want to hear what other people think is good and bad about the list, and what they can do to improve on it. i might tell someone something about their list that i think isn't strong, but will suggest what i think would do good to replace it. don't just give criticism, use constructive criticism with another suggestion of your own to get people "creative juices" of sorts flowing and then you're doin good. i.e. don't just tell a dude his list sucks, tell him it sucks and then tell him what you think is weak, strong and what can be changed to improve his chances of coming away with a victory.

i really think you're gonna like your list man. should be very well rounded and should fair pretty well. bt have a pretty good niche at 1k. when expanding to 1500 and 1750 it can get a little dicey due to transport costs and such. let me know if you have any more questions. good luck with your modeling!

[Black_Templar85]

Right so I have all my models purchased and mostly built (waiting on the dred and landspeeders) and un order to get myself painting have arranged a game against a Vanilla SM army at 1k. I'll be lining up agaunst

Termi Lib, combi plas, staff, vortex & GOT

5 Termies, Ass Cannon, 2 Chainfists, 1 Pw

5 scouts, snipers, ml

10 Tac, ml, flamer

10 Tac, ml, flamer, drop pod

5 Devs, 4 ml

Also have a game against DE but less worried about them.

So what do I habe to watch out for? Apart from the termies and the drop pod tactical squad?

[Castellan Alaric]

to be honest, i'd be more worried about the DE player. all the marine player will bring that's scary is the libby and terms. saturation of fire on the terms will bring them down (think plasma) and the libby can be dealt with by the champ in combat, at least i would think. DE can out maneuver you, hit just as hard and harder in cc, have access to a lot of special rules that are NASTY. i played a wrack list, where EVERY unit in the army had FnP and fearless. also, the dark lances which are decent at taking out your rhinos and such. just keep them at bay and shoot the crap out of them. any other questions just let me know

[Black_Templar85]

It's the same player, the Dark Eldar are his 'new' army and from what I can see he has not really optimised the list rather gone for a fluffy feel which is nice, only 1 vehicle?

[Castellan Alaric]

saw your batrep, good work. DE are tricky and slippery buggers man. especially when they get those damn pain tokens to get FnP among other things. which list were you talkin about 1 vehicle? the marine list? marines on foot isn't the best way to go, especially if they have heavy weps, keeping them from moving. you should be able to dictate the flow of that game with all of your mobility. shoot the piss out of them with your typhoons and dread, before moping up the remains with your 2 cc squads.

any other games planned for the next few weeks?

[Black_Templar85]

I think you must be confusing the batrep authors. I not played a game yet as my stuff is all.unpainted. Also vehicles are posing an interesting challenge to me. Especially rhino's. Am finding painting a box very unrewarding at the moment. Saying that am looking forward to completing my oath and getting some games in soon

[Castellan Alaric]

ya, rhino's are lame to paint. my lrc is a little bit more rewarding, however and i am enjoying it. BUT, it is SO big i get a little overwhelmed at times. i'm pretty sure we're the only 2 people in this thread so i figured it would have been your batreps man, my bad. keep up the painting and get some games in! prime up your guys and get games in, don't let their unfinished nature deter you from playing. experience is the key and nit picking yourself over not having a painted army doesn't let you gain more experience. just my 2 cents.

[Black_Templar85]

Well by the time that the Landspeeder's and Dreadnoughts have arrived I'll be mostly painted (apart from the Rhino's I need black primer for them.) I have a weird way of painting. I have ALWAYS painted from a metallic primer, gives my mini's a nice glossy finish. I am my own worse critic when it comes to painting, I have repainted both my Necromunda gangs countless times and still not happy.

[Castellan Alaric]

lol i am in the hobby for the gaming more, so i'm almost all about the gaming aspect. if i can get some solidly painted models great, but it's all good for me man. this 2nd go round me in the 40k hobby sees me more patient in my painting so my models have been turning out better, which is nice. painting tanks is a slow and tedious process, for which i am wanting an airbrush for my tanks though, would make the large surface area quite a bit easier. dreads aren't as bad, as there are plenty of nice little bits in there to touch up and break up the surface areas. keep up your painting, it gets easier and it will go by faster than you think

[Black_Templar85]

I'm really looking forward to the Dread any tips for painting pne? Apart from sub assembly painting? Wish I had done that with my Rhino's now

[Castellan Alaric]

well, it's not as bad, cuz you don't glue the arms and can paint them separately. it really just depends on what you want. if you want a simple black templar dreadnought, have a bunch of black with a few icons to signify the chapter. but if you want more ornamentation - the sky's the limit. there are a TON of bits in the bt upgrade box that will help adorn your dread with battle honors from many centuries' battle. just depends on your preference

[Black_Templar85]

cheers man, I'll bear it in mind. Will paint it up in sub sections like I did with my Sphinx's

[Black_Templar85]

Cheers for that buddy, the help is really appreciated.

I'm just building and painting at the moment once the army is 'finished' I'll be dropping by the GW for some games. I have a horrific record with unpainted armies so now no longer play unpainted armies/units.

So this is the list as it stands.

HQ: Emperors Champ - 140
AACNMTO

Elites: Venerable Dreadnought - 163
TLLC, DCCW, Extra Armour, Smoke, Tank Hunter

Troops: Crusader Squad - 225 (EC bunks with these guys)
5 Ini's - CCW & BPistol
1 Ini - Meltagun
1 Ini - PFist & BPistol
2 Neo's - CCW & BPistol
(All with Frag Grenades)
Rhino - Extra Armour, Smoke, Searchlight

Troops: Crusader Squad - 236
5 Ini's - CCW & BPistol
1 Ini - Meltagun
1 Ini - PFist & BPistol
3 Neo's - CCW & BPistol
(All with Frag Grenades)
Rhino - Extra Armour, Smoke, Searchlight

Troops: Crusader Squad - 96
3 Ini's - Bolters
1 Ini - Plasma Gun
1 Ini - Missile Launcher

Fast: Land Speeder Typhoon - 70

Fast: Land Speeded Typhoon - 70

Total Points - 1000 on the nose

Hi guys been a while had an accident a while back tht put me out of action for a little bit. So since I've not yet gotten around to looking at the 6th edition rulebook how should I update my list?

Cheers all and happy to be back